Hi all, I'm back from my whirlwind tour of Las Vegas and San Francisco. Had a good time, was even pretty much ok on our anniversary. Didn't call H the whole time I was there (and he didn't call me either.)

When I got home last night there was a message on the machine from H saying he hoped I had a good trip and to give him a call so we could set up time to talk today about finances and such. I thought it was interesting - he'd left the message not too long after my flight landed, I just wasn't home yet due to luggage issues. I didn't call him back.

This morning, I slept in pretty late trying to readjust from the time difference, and he calls again. We discuss him coming over to talk, I say I need to get a shower and wake up and I'll call him back. Eventually after a few more phone calls we decide that he'll come over around 2, he'll have to leave at 3:30 to go to work.

So he comes over and immediately starts asking about my vacation, oohs and aahs over the things I brought back, and we sit down and I tell him how the trip was. After about a half an hour of this, we go over to the desk and start going over finances. He doesn't freak out over any of it, which was good.

I had noticed earlier that he was no longer wearing his wedding ring. I asked him when he stopped wearing it and why. I wasn't wearing mine either, so he returned the question. I made him answer first. He said that he had talked to a lot of people about it and that they advised him that if he was really serious about this that he shouldn't wear it or it might give me false hope, and that he'd taken it off about a week ago.

I told him that I had been wearing mine on and off but had it off for a while, then slid into some of a letter I'd started writing from Dobson's book. I told him I had had a chance to think about things and I realized that I'd been holding him against his will, that he married me of his own free will and that now he was saying he wanted out, so me taking the ring off was symbolic of me letting him go. I also said it was a symbol of something that really didn't exist anymore except legally. I told him it had been a big shock for me that our relationship was where it is because I thought we would stay committed to each other for life. I told him that I was going to learn from this experience and move on with my life. He said he thought that was the best thing to do.

Of course I couldn't get through all this without crying - but only a little, thankfully. I also told him that I didn't think that we could be friends after all this, and while he wasn't happy about that, he said he could understand after being the "leavee" in a previous relationship.

So he took a bunch of his bills with him when he left. Before he left he stood in front of me and I asked him what he was doing, and he said he wanted to hug me but didn't want to make anything worse, so he wasn't going to do it. I asked him worse for me or him, and he replied for me. Then I asked him why he wanted to hug me, and he made some comment about how he hugs all his friends. I wound up hugging him anyway, but now think maybe I shouldn't have. I started crying pretty soon after he left and am still feeling very down.

We still have a number of things to talk about financially. Tomorrow he is going to come over after work so we can go to the cell phone store and split our accounts. I have to figure out exactly how much money is in the joint account so we can split it up. Then we have to get the house on the market, etc., etc...

What do you all think about this? Is there still a chance? All this financial splitting seems so final... and I'm afraid that telling him we couldn't be friends might have been a bad thing... we were friends before we were married, so telling him that might preclude a reconciliation...

Help!

I am interested in replies to the last paragraph in Jelly Girl's post. What do you all think?
I am facing similar questions.
Thanks!
-CS

I think there is still a chance for you guys. I have to ask you one question though. Have you prayed about it? Pray, pray, pray!!! God works in wonderful ways. It sounds to me that he still has some feelings for you. I think the reason he wanted to hug you is because he is having second thoughts about it or at least thinking about his decision. Don't let the circumstances get you down. Just when you think it is over the lord will do wonderful things and pick you up. Don't give up on your marriage or the miracles the Lord can do.

Have you been to the website www.rejoiceministries.org

Go there and read about it and read about all the recovered marriages and you will see that God can and will work wonderful things for our marriages. God is working in my marriage as we speak but that is another story. Stand up for your marriage no matter what because God hates divorce under any circumstances.

I was like you in that I took my wedding ring off when divorce started but I put it back on because I am still married and I want people to know I am not available. I love my wife dearly and I have total faith in God that we will be a family again sometime soon.

Love in Christ

cajunky

<small>[ July 07, 2002, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: cajunky ]</small>

Can't Sleep, thanks for bumping me, and sorry to hear you and I are asking the same questions... I hope we both find answers.

cajunky, although I am not a religious person, yes, I have prayed, and I need to pray some more... sometimes I think Someone Up There is trying to tell me something, and the message is that it's time for me to be on my own and let my H be on his own. I will check out that website, thanks for the link.

H came back over today... initially he wanted to meet me at the Sprint store, but I asked him to come over so we could ride together. He explained that he was trying to avoid too much time together since I had told him we could not be friends. Sigh. He came over anyway, we discussed more money, got the phone stuff taken care of, came back to the house, started talking about things, I got teary so he got mad... Turns out he is no longer getting manager shifts at the restaurant, which means less guaranteed hourly pay and more tips which are never reliable... He's already not good with money and this isn't going to help. On top of this the VA is considering him "less than 1/4 time" as far as his internship is concerned, so his GI bill money is now only $200/month. I expressed concern about all this and he told me not to worry, he'd figure out how to deal with it, borrow money from his parents if necessary.

He hugged me several times before he left, and I made the mistake of asking for a kiss. He said he thought that would be a bad idea, and I apologized and said he was probably right. I felt so weak and stupid for asking.

I'm calling the lawyer in the morning to start talking about separation agreement stuff... I'm not sure if how we're dividing things is fair to me - I'm being fairly generous in my opinion, since I make more money, but my brother thinks I'm being too nice, so time to ask the lawyer...

I also found out last night that my brother went up to the restaurant where H works and had a talk with him. Neither of them told me, my FIL spilled the beans accidentally. Bro went up to ask him what his intentions were since what he was hearing was mixed messages. H said he was done. Bro told him he should take off his ring - now I know where that came from. I still think H is confused, but determined to go ahead with all this for now.

I told him today I was afraid we'd get to some point and think "what have I done?" and he said that we had already talked about that and that he would not go through with it just for pride. I also talked to him about how he felt when he was in my shoes (he was dumped in his previous relationship) and he said that a lot of how he's been acting has been because of knowing how it feels. Apparently people keep telling him he needs to sit me down and have a harsh conversation with me telling me it's really done and there's no hope, but he won't do it. He said maybe some time this week we can talk more about how he felt when he was in this situation, and it seemed to soften him a bit.

Sorry to ramble... I am tired and depressed.

Great. It just dawned on me that maybe the reason H was in such a hurry to split the cell phone account into two is so I can't see who he's talking to and how much...

Argh!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Jelly girl,
I'm glad you had a nice get-away <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

I'm sorry your H is pushing this.

You ask if you still have a chance. Sure! Absolutely! You can see several signature lines around here of marriages brought back from the brink of D... and some re-united AFTER divorce.

BUT... What do you want? Your acceptance and words modeled after Dobson shows great strength. I believe the thing that differs between PLan A and Dobson, is Dobson's approach goes more directly to a Plan B kind of thing. Plan A gives the BS time to work on themselves, and time for the A to end naturally. So, you have decide what you want, and how long you're willing to stick this out. Taking your ring off and telling him you accept his decision to end your MARRIAGE is different than the message of the Harley Plan A - demonstrating changes, keeping your faith in your H and your marriage (keeping your ring on, demonstrating your love through meeting their EN's and avoiding LB's, etc).

Another thing I seem to have noticed, is that without kids, divorce seems to come more quickly. My ex told me the other day he would have tried much harder if we'd had kids. So that's another thing to think about.

The path I chose was this:
- to make him do ALL the dirty work. If I didn't feel like talking about "splitting up things", I didn't.
- to basically "ignore" his rantings about getting D.
- to continue to remind him how much I loved him and wanted to be married. I drug Plan A out as long as I could.
-I was very difficult in splitting up stuff until I felt I couldn't stall the D any longer.
- to stall the D process as long as possible
- when time came to "split" things, I took the stance that HE was choosing to leave the marriage, and therefore, HE was leaving most of the "stuff". He didn't get any joint stuff from the house. My attorney backed me up on that. Of course my state would recognize fault in adultery, so a judge would have ruled in my favor anyway.

Sure, I ended up divorced - but I DO feel like I did everything I could. I can honestly say I didn't want the divorce. He can also look back and see the Plan A changes that I demonstrated. He has the weight of the divorce decision on his conscience.

You may not choose that. You may choose to give in more quietly and "friendly". Which is ok. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> really - it is. You have to know what's right for YOU. And we'll support you either way. Just know that it's POSSIBLE to stick it out a little longer, learn and grow, and possible STILL save your marriage. Lor(Lor) is an excellent example of a LONG plan A, several separations, and marital recovery.

I also told him friendship after the D was impossible. And even though I've tried it now for about 6 weeks, I'm not liking it, and it won't last. Your H's "friendship hug" makes me puke. That's just my opinion though. You can't betray someone as deeply as infidelity, divorce them without even trying, and pretend that the divorce is as simple as canceling a dinner-date.

{{{{{{Jelly Girl}}}}}}

I hope some more MB'ers will chime in here...

Keep us posted, k?

<small>[ July 08, 2002, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</small>

Faith,

Thanks for all your support. Right now I don't really know what I want. I'm starting to accept the D as a very definite and very likely possibility, and trying to think more about what I want. I still feel like there's been an alien abduction of my H, but I don't know when they're going to be done experimenting and return him.

I know he saw my plan A changes, and is still seeing them. I think that while he's in the fog (I actually refer to this more often as him having his head up his @$$) the only thing I can do is let him go and see if he comes back. I am realizing more and more that there would have to be radical change in him for this relationship (or any relationship he has) to be healthy. I don't know if he is capable of those changes. I'm really starting to question whether or not I want it to work.

I'm not giving up yet, but I'm definitely taking a different approach to things... and maybe in a sense this is a more in depth plan A, in the sense that I feel like I finally am really focusing on myself and my own wants/needs, on improving myself, on feeling attractive and desireable, on deciding where I am going and what I am doing.

I also feel like I need to start moving on for my own mental well being. Living in this house is a trigger all by itself, so I think step number one is to get it ready and get it sold. I have also made an appointment with a lawyer to talk about the separation agreement - I need to protect myself. Initially I was going to stall that process, because without that, the waiting period for a divorce is one year rather than six months. I think it would be better to just get it done and signed now - I think if decisions on assets, debt and such went to a judge I would not fare as well as what H is agreeing to now. I agree with your stance on property division - he's leaving, so he's only getting what I don't want. So far he's gone along with that.

I also think that H needs to be really on his own before he might figure out that he's made a big mistake. I think he's too focused on freedom from responsibility right now, so I'm not going to hold him back from that - but I'm not going to make it really easy either.

Something interesting today... he came over while I was at work to disconnect the cable box from the TV for me (I am way too short to be able to do it) - I don't watch it much so I am cancelling it. Anyway, he left me a note saying that he'd done it and reconnected the DVD player, and asking to let him know about Saturday (we plan to go to the bank to get each other's names off our individual accounts.) Here's the interesting part: he wrote the note to me on a piece of hotel note pad paper that I brought back from my trip. On the plane I'd made notes of things to do (cancel cable, call realtor, etc.) on the first page. On the second page I had written some things I thought about doing: go back to school, go on a singles cruise, look at jobs/housing in the southwest, the name of a guy I used to date with a question mark, and "what do I want???". On the third page I wrote a list of things I didn't like about him. It reads:
liar/yes man
selfish/self-centered
quitter
immature
infidel

I can tell that the note was torn from the page after that list, so I can't imagine that he didn't see it... In a way I feel kind of bad about it, but in a way I think maybe it's good for him to know what I think without me having to tell him. He returned an earlier phone call of mine tonight as I walked in the door (before I'd seen the note and figured this out) and didn't seem too different... among other things I told him I had an appointment with the lawyer next week, and he didn't react much to that news.

I think it's very interesting, but not surprising, that you have tried friendship after D and that it's working out poorly. I don't understand how these WSs think they can just act like we're buddies after they've broken our hearts...

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> HI there guys & gals! well I'm in a similar situation as when H & I seperated because of H "friendship" (H swears it wasn't because of that, just that he no longer loved me & when he loved me could put up with "how I was" but couldn't give me an explanation on that!!@##)
Anyway our property was all divided (takes 2 yrs to get a divorce over here) & during that time we has some major LB. I had decided to go to plan B when i left & was away for 5 weeks. When I returned to the village H wanted nothing to do with me (still doesn't, so I have to initate all contact which isn't very often (once a fortnight if i'm lucky) Had counselling with steve harley when i arrived back here & he put me right back onto plan A! Now i have to have some excuse 4 contact.
I had some stuff H needed so he sent a text message can you drop it off now so I did H was not home but today I asked if he could drop something off at my place& he didn't do it, I said the door was unlocked but I would b at work but he never dropped it off. Now H i expect will B expecting me to text him a ****ty message about not dropping it off but I am just going to ignore that he didn't drop it off.

My H said he wanted to remain friends with me several months b4 i left but I just couldn't do it I seemed to have to distance mself from him because of the hurt he was causing me. I have LB soooo bad that I fear I have stuffed up all chances of ever having a reconciliation with H, our boys are 25 & 27 so its not as tho we have to have contact it has to be initated by me cause he wants to b as far away from me as possible & just b with his "friend" I can't really offer any advise but just thought i'd share with you my story it deffinately pays to keep your cool, we got 2 the stage where every time we had a conversation it turned into a huge row with me crying my eyes out.

I just felt that things had to come to a head tho 4 anything to happen either way.

I think Faith is right. No Children leads WS to push faster for DV. I have no children as well and my WW is pushing so fast for DV that my head is spinning. She finally confirmed to me what I had always suspected, she is living with OM#2 who she has only known since June 3rd. I almost think divorce is needed so she can quit having a reason to blame me for all her problems. Maybe then she will wake up. Although I'll admit I'm not sure of anything right now.

wrungout - thanks for sharing your experience. I am definitely trying to keep my cool, and the more I think about my own future, the better able I am to cope with all this.

SCBI - Yup, and in VA the legal process is also shorter when you don't have kids. My counselor keeps saying this is all going too fast, but I think he's pushing because all he wants is "freedom" - he certainly seems willing to give up almost everything to get it. I am sorry to hear that you were right about your WW, but I think you may be correct - that once you can no longer be blamed, she might figure out that you weren't her problem. I think mine may figure that out as well... but it may be too late when/if he does.

By the way, I love the quote in your sig line - I'm a big Pearl Jam fan. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />