Well….what I mess I have now. A brief background….

Married 4yrs, no kids. Our marriage was very rough at first as we both took on too many challenges right after our marriage and we became independent instead of dependant on each other. The first year kind of set a precedent and we became more like roommates than partners. About 5 months ago I found out about my W’s A of five months. At that time it was only an EA. D Day I asked her to pack her things and leave. She assured me she was going to end the EA and take 30 days to figure herself out. Within those 30 days I discovered that she was still seeing the OM and now the affair had become PA. Well…I took my evidence and went to the OM’s wife and informed her of the situation. The A is now over and has been for about 4 months…and I believe no contact has continued.

Throughout these five months I have been focused on improving myself. I have gone back to the gym, lost about 25lbs, new clothes, worked on myself from within, became more in touch with my emotional needs, all while at the same time telling my W that I felt we could get through this and become better because of it. My wife was very distant and showed little interest in working on our marriage. I think she was still suffering the loss of her “soul mate”. Well…I started going out and having a good time. I started to get attention from women and I started to really enjoy the attention. I shared with my wife that I was being tempted and asked for some help. I think I just wanted some reassurance that maybe someday she’ll come around. Well…her response to my temptations was less than encouraging to say the least. Well…I ended up having a couple of one-night stands. I did not try to hide these and shared what I had done at our next counseling session. I really didn’t think it would upset my W much. She had told me several times that she didn’t love me and she doesn’t have any feelings for me. OK…if she didn’t have any feelings how could me having a one-night stand hurt her? Obviously, she still had some feelings for me.

Well it took my A’s and her seeing other girls having interest in me to get her to turn around. She is now the one wanting to work on the marriage. I on the other hand have started to really enjoy the somewhat single life. I have met quite a few girls and I know that there are lots of girls out there that would love to have a guy like me. So, now I am asking myself….why do I want to take my W back? Why do I want to work on my marriage with her? She had an affair, she feel in love with another man, and she lied about it for over 5 months…and lied right to my face. The only reason the affair ended was because the OM went back to his wife. I can’t help but ask myself what would have happened had the OM been single? I really think that my W would be long gone by now. So what does that make me? Seems like I come up second best to her. Do I want to live the rest of my life knowing that I am second best to my W. Or do I want to start over with someone else and know for sure that I am #1 in her life.

Also had some single (recently divorced) girls move in across the street. I have started to get to know them a little and even took them to the lake yesterday. The W is not too comfortable with this and was visibility upset yesterday. The past week has been the only time she has shown any interest in wanting me. And now I can’t help but think it’s too late. Where was she 3 months ago when I was almost begging to give our marriage another chance? Today in an email was the first time since all this happened that she stated she still cares for me deeply and that she still loves me. Dang it! Where was this 3 months ago? Why did she have to wait until I got a taste of what else is out there? This sucks! Too many decisions. I almost wish she was still in love with the OM…at least that would make the decision easy on me.

Confused!

people want what they dont have... funny, I think when I get to this point - my h will want me too... but by the time you get there... you just dont care! hugs, HONEY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

W&W:

I think you need to slow down. Why don't you resolve to take a week, maybe two, that you spend in relative solitude - away from your W and definitely away from the girls next door. Spend that time thinking about where you've been, where you are, and where you would like to be in 1, 2, and 5 years.

Some observations and suggestions:

1. You are married - MARRIED - and you should honor your vows to your W. If you decide, in the end, that your M is over, so be it. But wait until your divorce is final before you return to the dating scene.

2. I urge you to take advantage of your W's willingness to work on the M. Make a deal with her - say that you'll make a sincere effort to rebuild the M for, say, six months. Then the two of you can evaluate the situation and decide whether to separate or nenew the commitment for another six months. You have a lot to gain and, really, very little to lose. You will be as attractive to women in 6-12 months as you are now - maybe even more so, because by honoring your M vows you show yourself to be a man of integrity.

3. You say you want to be #1 for someone, and you are at best #2 to your W. Maybe, maybe not. I don't think that's a productive line of thought. I would guess that you definitely were your W's #1 when you wed. Something happened since then. And unless you come to grips with the limitations of your own relationship skills, you may repeat the error. In other words, you can remarry and be your new W's #1 on your wedding day - but 2 or 3 or 10 years later she may fall in love with OM and you'll find yourself in the same spot as today.

I think you are angry with your W, and that is understandable. It is justified. And it is predictable. Many of the books I've read about affairs suggest that when the WS decides to recommit to the M, the BS becomes angry. The decision you must make now is what to do with that anger. Will you let this FEELING dictate your actions? Or will you try to REASON? I am not saying that you should not divorce your W. But I am warning you against acting hastily. Stop. Relax. Think - carefully - before you make a decision one way or the other.

I wish you the best.
DH

waiting and wanting. yours is an oft repeated story on here. bs pours emotional guts out only to be repeatedly rejected, the plan a is good, but is only is good for rebuilding yourself emotionally. not for getting ws back. that is something they have to want for themselves. when they finally get a taste of what they have dished out, so many find they want spouse back. their safe haven. the facts are, you will never see her in same light again. and you should ask her the same questions as you posted. why should you allow yourself to be second best in her life. tell her that as far as you are concerned. she would be long gone if om had not dumped her. follow up with the question, now, what can you do for me to make me want you back. make certain she understands that in your relationship she is returned goods. there will be no warranty and she is on the shelf as is, so to speak. I have wittnesses no end of men and women , on here who give up self respect , their dignity, diminish their worth and still lose out in the end. few people want a door mat for a spouse. don't allow yourself to become hers. and if you take her back you will have become her doormat. marriage is a wonderful institution, but marriage is an emotional contract between two people who value one another and respect and protect one another. there cannot be a marriage between a boot and a doormat. it may be possible , given time years ,and tought love , for a boot to be reconstuction into a gentle loving slipper, but the reconstruction means tearing the boot apart at the seams. mad mumbleing to a higher power does not work. we have to do it ourselves. God does not intervene in our lives , God lets life happen. so be strong , do not mistreat, but draw the lines and set the boundaries. good luck

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Our marriage was very rough at first as we both took on too many challenges right after our marriage and we became independent instead of dependant on each other. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, it is not so good to be dependent upon each other for everything, but I see what you are saying. It is important to be emotionally attached while keeping one's differentiation (oneself). This is neither dependent nor independent. (sorry I know this has nothing to do with what you are posting, but could not resist)

How long have you been married?

My wife is going through withdrawal herself. The A went on for over a year, four months of which I knew about the PA/EA. I Plan A'd my butt off and now that the A is over and she is in withdrawal, I am worn out. I have not much motivation to work on us (but neither does she), and I am also beginning to look at other women. All of that to say I can relate.

However, now that you both made mistakes, the recovery can be easier (if you are interested). Think back to when you were dating, where the feelings strong? Why did you love her? List the points and come to a decision because it is unfair to string your WW along. It is just as bad a thing as she did to you, whether or not she was always honest. You are more or less "parading" your affairs in her face. Kind of harsh, but you know what I mean.

The feelings will come back if you spend time with her and practice the MB recovery. Are you aware of the "love bank" principals? As she fills your EN's the feeling of love will come back. The interesting thing is that there is a missing ingredient in the filling the EN's. The receiver of the EN must be open to the EN for any good to come of it. That is the EN multiplication/division factor. The more receptive and interested you are, the more the EN means as far as love units. So, you must forgive and open your heart for the feelings to come back.

Unfortunately, if you are close to like me, you could care less to have your EN's filled by your WW. Why should you? Right? She had the affair?

In summary, I think it all comes down to a decision, A leap of faith. Your marriage (your comitment you made) is worth at least that chance. Remember that your WW is taking the higher ground not you this time. Remember how you felt. You will be suprised if you open up to her how the love will start coming back. Give it a chance and set a time period if you must, but you have to stop looking at other women for it to work.

Just MHO.

wanting and waiting . chameleon 's characterization of your behavior is skewed . what you did is a consequence of wife's behavior and no where near as bad. Im not saying it right, but its the thing that woke her up. this fellows approach is a green light for wayward wives. after all is said and done its what works, not what sounds good. what you did worked what he said, just sounds good. good luck

joell,

Remember that to God all sins are the same. The fact that one person has more excuses to sin does not make the act any less a sin. Right? I guess there just must be a philisophical difference in opinion here. I just keep thinking back to when Jesus said "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." [Matt. 5:28]

If you want to talk about consequences, remember that an A is the consequence of a bad marriage not the cause. So many mistakes where made long before the A by both spouses. Right? So lets stop focusing on who is "righter" and start focusing on ways to improve and to forgive.

Thanks everyone for the responses so far.

Just a little more background….About two months ago we both agreed to start spending time together and working on our marriage and going to counsel. We both agreed that we did not want to make a hasty decision about our marriage. About that same time my W asked me what I needed to see from her so that I knew our marriage was important to her. I listed a few basic things like…her going to individual counsel, reading books, church and so forth. During that two-month period she did very little if any of these things and our marriage was obviously not her priority. We only did things when she didn’t have something else to be doing. She is very involved in extra activates and to me it seemed like she would rather be doing that stuff than spending time on our marriage. Throughout that same two month period, like I mentioned before, I started going out and having a good time and getting attention from other girls. She didn’t start to show any interest in our marriage and me until she learned about this.

Distressed Husband….again, thanks for your thoughts. A couple of things though….

As far as slowing down…I can’t say that I want to. I lived in a hell for about three months right after her affair. I was absolutely miserable. I don’t want to go back to that place. I am happier now in life than I have been in years.

-Yes, I am married and I have not joined the dating scene. And I won’t until I am divorced. Just because I spend time with the girls in the neighborhood does not mean I am “dating”. They are recently divorced and we have a lot in common and I enjoy their company.

-As far as the #1 and #2 thing. I am not sure I am willing to take my wife back with such a large “maybe”hanging over my head the rest of my life. As far as meeting someone else and being her #1….I think I have learned a great deal from this affair process and grown and stretched greatly. I know I contributed to the failure of my marriage. I feel very confident that I will not allow these mistakes to happen in the future weather it be with my W or someone new.

-I do have to agree that I am still angry with my W. I am not so mad about the affair so much. I have done a great deal research on affairs and I have a good understanding of how they happen. I think I am more angry with her for the position she has placed me in. I gave up the single life over four years ago and I was ready to. Well…I have gotten a slight taste of something I have never had before. I did very little dating when I was younger and now I ask myself if I married my wife for the right reasons. Often times I don’t think I did. I don’t think I know what being in love is even like. Therefore, I am angry that now I am having to make a choice like I have before me. I almost wish she would continue her selfish ways and fall in love with some other man and leave.

Chameleon..thanks for your thoughts as well.

-We have been married 4 yrs and have NO kids.

-As far as being dependent…I do think it is very important that a couple become dependant on each other for emotional needs. My wife and I never did that and we found other ways to fill our emotional needs. And I don’t mean the affairs. I mean just the individual life’s we were leading.

-I am very familiar with the “love bank” principle. But, like you stated I am not interested in having my needs met by her.

-You are right it does come down to a decision. And to me that comes down to moving on with the life I am happy with now and learning from the mistakes of the past. Or giving someone I really don’t have to many feelings for a chance just because of a commitment and covenant that has already been shattered.

-I almost wish we had kids. I know that sounds terrible and I would not want to wish that on anyone. But at least if we had kids I would have some reason to be drawn to my wife. Now, I can’t help but look at her and think that she lied right to my face…and I was the ONE and only person she ever committed to. Why do I want someone that is capable of that?

Joell thanks for your encouragement. I do agree it is what works not what sounds good. I do also agree that what I did does not even measure to her 5 months of continued lies and deceitfulness. What I did got my W’s attention and now she is paying attention to me and our marriage. However, now I ask myself if she really wants to fix our marriage for the right reasons. Two months ago it was just a thorn in her side. Now, all of a sudden see starts to show an interest in me. I can’t help but wonder what we would be now if I never started going out and having a good time. Would she still be knocking on my door had other women not started knocking first? Some how I don’t think so.

Chameleon,
You are right. as far as the adultery our sins are equal in God’s eye. However, my A did not include constant lies and deceitfulness. I fessed up right away and never lied about anything. I also never shared any emotional love or feeling with these other girls. It was purely a physical act. But again…as far a adultery goes…still wrong, I know. And as far as the physical and emotional part of the affair I think I am fairly OK with. I know I still have issues with the fact that she sat right there and lied to me when I asked her several times about the chance of a OM being involved. I had to provide hard evidence before she ever confessed.

It is not good to be dependent upon your EN's to be filled. It is necessary for them to be filled in order to stay in the relationship. See the difference.

Good point about the deception and lies. Another good point, I failed of course to identify, God gives us an out in marriage when the WW comitts adultery.

But enough about who's the more evil of the two. Does it really matter anyway? The real question is what to do now. I still sense quite a bit of finger pointing in your posts. Let it go. No one is going to blame you for what you did. We all make mistake. I too have made plenty. It is not the solitary mistake that defines who we are but the patterns. Besides, I think God gives you an out of the marriage for what she did.

My guess is that you still have love for her, but you are angry at her and you have not forgiven her for what she has done. Perfectly natural and very common. You have to make a decision as to whether or not you want to make the M work. It will not be easy, far more difficult then finding another women. I think that you are still emotionally attached to your WW, and that is why you did not have EA's along with the PA's. Not fair to the other women, was it?

But, this is all just my opinion and I have been wrong many many times before.

hi chameleon. with all due respect please do not attempt to tell others that you know the mind of God. that is arrogance. "ie all sins are the same" you only know within some limits things you read in a bible. there are several bibles. they differ. people like to think they were lowered down from heaven on a rope , or something. they were written by men for men in the light of superstitions of that day. the King James is by far the most beautiful , because of the poetry of english as written in the time of Shakespeare. but it if confusing and full of things which aren so and contridicts itself many places. the bibles are wonderful books they are sign posts pointing a direction. but, as far as divining the mind of God, God likes this, God doesn like that ? come on and as to the state of the marriage being the cause of an affair. thats almost the same as saying if one had not have been a bad person they would not have suffered an accident or sickness. we must face it. some people are predisposed to this kind of behavior. its matters not what their marriage is like. they are emotionally different and need something besides what they have. there are those whose spouses are the best and give no cause for an affair, other than no being off limits . so they go looking. don't convict the victim. only lawyers do that. thanks

I thought I would chime in here.

I hope you can come to a decision quickly regarding what you plan to do. IMHO: It is terrible to let your WW stay in this current state with you on the fence. I know. My WW was (and possibly still is) on the fence for many many months. Terrible pain.
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joell,

I would have to agree with chameleon. I am sure he was not pretending to be a God Send after all he did profess that he was stating on opinion. Remember that we are all posting our opinions here, and like you, we are all entitled to opinions about God and MB techniques.

The bible is written by men but inspired by GOD. If we can not guess at the mind of God from such a huge volume, then why have a Bible. After all, is that not what the Bible is all about? Learning the Bible helps us know what is right and wrong (in the mind of God). However, if you do not believe that the Bible is 100% accurate, how can you even take part of it and say that this is what God said.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> and as to the state of the marriage being the cause of an affair. thats almost the same as saying if one had not have been a bad person they would not have suffered an accident or sickness. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Remember the Love Bank. An affair enableing environment certainly can be created by ignoring ones's spouse, and I do not think anyone ever said that the state causes someone to have an affair. That would be silly.

Good discussions. I hope I did not offend you. I so enjoy debating issues. Have a good day. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

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PS. Sorry for taking your space wainting and wanting.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If we can not guess at the mind of God from such a huge volume, then why have a Bible. After all, is that not what the Bible is all about? Learning the Bible helps us know what is right and wrong (in the mind of God). However, if you do not believe that the Bible is 100% accurate, how can you even take part of it and say that this is what God said.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Very well put, Dreamland:)

remember folks there are several bibles and they ain't the same. and the original text even gives different meanings in light of todays understanding of those times. newer understanding shows the origional writings were not nearly as prohibitive as what we have been taught. chameleon your refering to who is the most evil....shows a fundalmentalist mindset. no one should consider these two evil they aren. I could refer you to many places in the bible which is clearly not right, but you , in your lack of real faith would dance around and try to find something to support this set of ideas which so many cling to for lack of the faith to face the world, life, its troubles. the trials of job huh? good luck and no offense to anyone <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

yes, the reason she wants to come back is that you started to see other women... works great doesnt it?
I have been trying to tell people to do this for months, but they always think that they will just wait around and somehow their spouse will suddenly want them back...

When you see other people, for some reason they suddenly wake up and want you back..

Keep on doing what you are doing and make her show you that she has REALLY decided that she wants your relationship to work......

The keys are:
Act happy
Agree with them of their view of the relationship.
Date other people
Act like everything is just fine the way things are.
Quit telling them you love them and that you have changed.
Keep all talk to small and happy talk

Sounds like you did these things. See how well it works? Keep up the independent attitude. You are showing her self respect, and that their are MILLIONS of women out there who are looking for a good man.... she is not the only fish in the sea...

Love is not enough to stay in a marriage. The fact is that your wife's actions showed that she had no commitment to the marriage. It also showed a character flaw in that she made a choice not only to have an affair but with a married man. I am aware that that marriages should be saved whenever possible but in my opinion, the fact that there are no children and the fact that your wife has shown no remorse and has done very lttle toward rebuilding the marriage one can only conclude that it would be foolish to stay with her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> there are several bibles. they differ </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You mean there are several translations of the original greek and hebrew texts. Of course they are different. They are different translations written at different times.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> the King James is by far the most beautiful , because of the poetry of english as written in the time of Shakespeare.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">King James was not WRITTEN in the time of Shakespeare, it was TRANSLATED (actually shortly after his death) by 47 of the best biblical scholars and linguists of their day and took around 7 years. It was a superior translation of of original greek and hebrew texts mainly the bishops bible.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> but it if confusing and full of things which aren so and contridicts itself many places. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Name one unrefutable contridiction. Certainly if there are many you can name one.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> remember folks there are several bibles and they ain't the same. and the original text even gives different meanings in light of todays understanding of those times. newer understanding shows the origional writings were not nearly as prohibitive as what we have been taught. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So tell us about these newer understandings. I am not sure what you mean here. Are you saying that societies current understanding (2002)has bearing on the original writings? I am not interested in what society understands about the bible. I am only interested in what I read the bible to say. There are many "easy" english translations that can be read without any misunderstandings. What prohibitions are you thinking of? Can you name one?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> chameleon your refering to who is the most evil....shows a fundalmentalist mindset </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I said "So lets stop focusing on who is "righter" and start focusing on ways to improve and to forgive." and "But enough about who's the more evil of the two. Does it really matter anyway? "

My reference to "who's the more evil of the two" was ment to provoke thought not about what I was saying because I never did try to pin who was more evil, but to show that waiting and wanting was trying to provide excuses for his actions and say in his own way that his wife did a more evil deed. In fact you even said this yourself.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> what you did is a consequence of wife's behavior and no where near as bad. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">no one should consider these two evil they aren. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are we not all sinners and all evil? Ever since adam, we lost our perfection. "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" [Romans 3:10.] If we are not righteous, are we not evil?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> in your lack of real faith would dance around and try to find something to support this set of ideas which so many cling to for lack of the faith to face the world, life, its troubles. the trials of job huh? good luck and no offense to anyone </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am offended if anyone offends me. The offence was this judging remark. How do you know my faith? Even from this small exchange of words. What specifically made you think I am not a man of faith? I believe the Bible is an inspired work of God. That takes great faith in spite of a world clinging to their own versions of what God or god is. What faith do you demonstrate? If something is concrete and you believe in it, is that faith. No. So tell me about your faith.

thanks tommaz for your thoughts.

She has just now within the past two weeks started to show interest in wanting to save our marriage. I still have not seen much remorse but I also don’t think she even knows how to be remorseful. We did go to a joint C session today and we both shared a lot. However, I am not any closer to wanting to fix my marriage now than I was before I went in. The thing that keeps driving through my brain that she stated that she wants to work on the marriage now, verse two months ago because of the changes she has seen in me and how I have become a more likable person. When I ask her what changes she has made or is willing to make she doesn’t have an answer and states that she has always been the person she wanted to be. I tried to explain to her that the person she was being was a person that was making me unhappy and the reason I have changed and become a more likable person is because I am not living in a miserable marriage and with a person that made me extremely unhappy. For some reason I don’t think she gets that. I feel like she is coming back based solely on the changes I have made. This is very confusing. I really have no drive to want to work on my marriage. However, at the same time I can’t say that I want a divorce. I am in a safe place now and I almost feel like opening myself back up to her is only going to cause future pain.

chameleon. there are many bibles. the work can mean small book, or it can mean an authoritive book. it can mean a religious book, the koran, for instance. as I said there are many bibles. you are limited in your comprehension, or you would have understood this. shakespeare, born 1556 died 1616 now when was the king james translated ? I could go on and on but it would not alter your view. if it were possible to open your mind you would have accomplished it already. but it is closed obvious to anyone reading your pronouncements. the christian bible. its full of crazy stuff, not only contridictions. stuff like the believers will be found handling snakes, drinking poisons. don't tell me this makes sense. stuff like there are those here today who will not taste death until the returning etc. we know no one is alive after 2000 years. come on. Its not necessary to go into details . you would dance around sane observations with skewed thinking and as some evangelist do make up crazy stuff to explain the unexplainable. as well know ignorance is the most cocksure of all attitudes. no offense <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

waiting and wanting,

I can certainly understand what you are saying. I guess that marriage does not promise that the couple will be madly in love with each other forever. You have been honest with your feelings with her and you are doing what you can outwardly to work on the marriage. If you decide you are O.K. with the marriage the way it is, and she is O.K. with that, then why not stay in it for the commitment or for the safety.
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Joell,

Oops. Just looked on the web, I thought for sure I remember from school that Shakespeare dying in 1609. I am not sure where I got that, but it does not change anything I said.

We were talking about the Christian bibles at the time and you referred to the "original text", so I only assumed that you were referring to the translations and making a distinction between the translations. There are other bibles, but often we do not refer to the Koran as a bible even though it can be defined that way. I think we both are a little closed minded. That is part of growing up and choosing paths in life and principles. You are no more likely to change your views, as I am mine.

Details are very important if you are trying to make a conscious effort to make a decision about what to believe. We all have struggled at one point in our life’s (or continue to struggle) deciding what to believe about God and what religion to embrace (if any). Certainly from the extremely complexity and harmony of everything around us, there must be some sort of higher power. Based upon your posts, I do think that you would agree to that.

There are many strange writings in the Bible. I am not sure what you are talking about when you say snake handling and drinking poisons. Maybe you are confusing that with some cult or something. Additionally, I cannot find the reference where you say "will not taste death until returning". All of these things you say are refutable and can be intellectually discussed. However, at some point along the way, for a religion to be chosen, there has to be a leap of faith. Certainly, choosing a religion will not make anyone worse off.

Are you agnostic? What do you believe about God etc.? Just curious. Throughout my schooling, I came across many people who believed similar to you and seemed to be always torn when we talked about God. They were always seeking answers and meaning in life. We had some great LONG discussions and that tended to cement my faith even more.

Enjoyed the discussion, however generalist it was. It is so tough to have a good exchage about these things by writing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />