Maybe I am slow, maybe I am missing something, please catch me up to speed. Your wife had an affair and it is you who needs to change? You are doing anything/everything to help her. You are working and raising your children. She is spending alone time doing whatever while she gets her daily smiles from you at her lesiure. And you need to change? I understand plan A and plan B. I understand both spouses need to look at themselves to help the marriage work but all I see is you focusing on marriage and her focusing on herself...I hate to sound vicious but I dont understand any woman who could leave her children because she is unhappy in her marriage. Maybe your friends made her uncomfortable because they followed her. I say so what...would it have bothered her if they were filming her taking the kids to the library, I think not. It is only because what she was doing was so wrong and she has no one to blame but herself. I think finding the reasons for infidelity only matter when it is a means to correct the behavior and make things better...not to excuse or mitigate the lack of character it takes to cross that line. I mean if stress, sadness, heartache, insecurity were rationalizations for this behavior then why doesnt every wronged spouse feel justified at taking their own lover? I will tell you why...bottom line...wrong is wrong no matter what the other spouse has done...wrong is wrong. Your wife is wrong, always has been. Youre not perfect...no one is. But your behavior didnt push her to the affair just like your perfect plan A-ing won't draw her home because she will do what she wants, what makes her comfortable. Right now she takes the comfort anywhere she can get it (apartment alone, ringing the doorbell, you sleeping on the floor, helping her financially, calling whenever she wants to reassure herself that she is still connected). Until she takes responsibility for her part in the destruction of your marriage I dont see how it can work. You seem to be a noble man willing to take on more than your share. I know that kind of pain. Whatever happens you are not alone. If you ever want to talk I would be happy to listen. ayslyne@yahoo.com

Mortarman,

I'm with you, brother! Putting on a happy face when you feel such resentment that it's killing you is the most difficult thing in the world and besides that, it's not fair! But think of the alternative - if you don't do it, you're probably going to lose her. Remember how when you were dating, for some reason, there were certain girls you just felt really confident around? Charm, outgoingness etc. just came naturally. It's no coicidence that those were the girls who were probably most attracted to you. That's no accident. It's a variation of the same concept here. The post from Just Learning is right on the mark. I couldn't say it any better. You just have to get over the unfairness of it and JUST DO IT! There is no better course of action. Good luck.

Please don't feel hopeless. There is a tremendous amount of potential in your situation.
You just have to give up the control of it for a little while.

If your wife is like me (or many other WW's) her feelings will change like the weather. One day she may be convinced that her future is with you and she's going to really try to do better with you. Later that same day, she may feel its hopeless and divorce is the only way out. The next morning her thoughts are consumed with OM and how happy he makes her.

Please just bide your time. Make every interaction with her a good one. Use those chances to demonstrate your Plan A changes.

No more demands. No more relationship talks.
Just be the best you can be.

Now, what are your Plan A changes? What is your Plan A all about?

Absolutely ignore her situation and don't bother analyzing it. As soon as you think you've got it figured out, it will have changed 20 times.
So just focus on YOU.

It drove me absolutely crazy to be analyzed. I did not want my H wandering around my thoughts and trying to figure me out. I wanted to be left alone.

ayslyne,

No offense, but would you rather be right or married? If being right, vindicated, morally superior etc. etc. is your objective, then your quest for that may prove very costly. Don't mean to come off as contentious but I have experienced winning the argument and losing the war.

Thanks all for the posts. I am definitely getting a theme here.

JL: Well, again, you are right. Of course, being in the military, I like things laid out clear and concisely. What's my mission, what is the endstate, now get out of my way. My wife again called back just a minute ago about her car. Seems it is cutting out on her, that the service station said there is no oil in it and no power steering fluid. Now, she is blaming me for not taking care of my responsibilities, "just like you havent over the marriage." Again, the ancient history bull is just fog talk. but, I had told her three weeks ago that I needed to work on her car, that I was sure it needed tuning up. but, I never got the car from her due to everything going on. And now she is on her own for the last week, car breaks down, and somehow she is putting it on me. HHHMMMMM...kind of hard to maintain my decorum with that crap going off in my ear. Of course, I would love to take care of the car. But, I dont want to do anything with the way things are right now. I am going to concentrate just on me now. Of course, it is hard not to discuss our R when she brings it up. like just now, she went into all of this crap, I asked her what she wanted to do and she said she didnt know. I asked if her goal is still divorce, and she said yes. But then I asked when she was going to do it and she says she isnt ready yet. Ready? Does that mean no time to take care of that right now or ready as in she still isnt ready to do the dirty deed, even though she says her goal is divorce? again, your point is well taken that I need to concentrate on me. and I probably shouldnt have asked those questions. But, I am looking for answers so I can get my life going again.

ayslyne: Of course, all of us here that are BS feel this way. And I may just take you up on that talking deal. I agree with almost everything you said. Exactly. that's what is so unfair about all of this. But, Steve harley asked me on my first session with him if I wanted to be right or if I wanted to be married. Logic is in no way in the lexicon of the WS. So, while what you posted is logical and the truth, the fog keeps the WS from seeing it. OOOOHHHH how many days I have wanted to just unload on her for being wrong and continuing to be wrong. but what will that accomplish? Steve assures me that if we get things back together, there will be a point where reality will set back in with my WW. And then the feelings of guilt will come, as well as depression. But until they get to that point, they cannot hear or see any of this. but, like I said, you are exactly right about her.

yank: I hear you man! Just dont know how to play Mr. Happy. Very hard, especially when WW unloading on me on the car breaking down. I honestly think I would do better in Plan B, but of course I dont think enough good Plan A has taken place for us to make it. The proverbial roack and a hard place!

Lexxxy: Oh God, that is what I am hoping! Since you are a former WS, I want to believe in what you are saying, that she is just lost in the fog and will have her daily/hourly mood changes. I am just not sure how to deal with that. Added to the fact is that I feel like it doesnt matter what I do....that she is going to go as soon as she finishes setting things up. I gave her a key to our house...now i think I should probably ask for it back. if we are going to divorce, i dont want her walking in when I am not there. but, if we are going to make it, i want her to feel comfortable that it is her home and want to come back. Please keep posting here because i am very interested in what is going on in her head. Is she just that confused, because I know she doesnt think so. I think she is moving head strong into that direction toward divorce. but, she says she isnt "ready" to file paperwork (she asked me if I wanted her to do it...if I told her yes, I know she would). What does ready mean? She took almost $12,000 out of our bank account and she says she isnt spending it. Is she holding that back to protect herself (said she was). Does she just want to wait until next June, after she graduates and is making money and still has this cash for a lawyer, so she can pay for the divorce then? With her just telling me what I want to hear, it is hard to know what ground I stand on. And hard to make decisions when it comes to her. So, please give me more insight and keep checking back here as I update this because my hopes are along the lines of what you posted. but I am beginning to feel that she is too far gone.

Mortarman - you seem to do something in between plan A and B, right? sort of trying to be nice & accomodating when she comes to visit you, but at the same time being 'aloof'
Now, you might have better guidance from Master Harley himself, but I understood always that his method of the 2 plans are so powerful as it throws the wayward from a hot (ie, your nice side) into a cold water tub (being completely ignored).

By the way, I strongly disagree with Ayslyne here. According to his/her logic, there CANT be any hope UNLESS the wayward comes back on his knees and asks for foregiveness. I think that this is the commom perception of how things work and may coincide with a typical WS mindset. Reality, from BS point of view (who can things clearer in this respect), is more complex. We have to be patient till WS sees what is actually going on here.

In the long run, however, he is right. there can't be a recovery until everything is cleared up.

Going back to your situation: maybe it's worth trying to let her associate the right behaviour with warmth and love, and the wrong behaviour with a cold shoulder? is that what you are trying to achieve? (like, on phone/while out of house pretty much ignore her, while she is at the house, be the best husband and father you ever can). Anyone tried such a thing?

Good luck Mortarman.

Mortarman,

Please do this. Quit asking and talking to her about divorce. Your questions concerning this will keep reinforcing to her that this is the only alternative. I know you are steamed because she is blaming you. Heck, you don't think she is going to take the blame now do you? Mean, she wouldn't have an affair unless it was someone elses fault. She wouldn't leave her children unless it was someone elses fault. Since she is having a hard time blaming the kids, you win as the target of the month.

So don't do the self-fullfilling prophecy thing. Don't mention the divorce and don' t ask her what she wants to do with the relationship. Just listen to her, if he asks for help do your best. Meanwhile, get out meet the new neighbors, cookout, do things you and the kids enjoy and when she asks what you are up to tell her. Build a life she might want to come back to Mortarman. She is doing the usual blame shifting and that doesn't mean she is really ready for a divorce. For one thing she has more she needs from you concerning the school. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

But, DON'T keep offering up those words. Even if YOU decide you want a divorce, don't talk to her about it, just serve her. So be prepared, be trained, and work on YOUR life. Her life is going to stink because she isn't really ready to do this on her own, and even if she is the cost is higher than she thinks.

Do you see where I am trying to steer you? Hope so. I think it is the same place that Lexxxy and Yank are trying to get you to go.

Hang in there and tough it out when she tries to punch your buttons.

God Bless,

JL

Do you want to be right or you want to be married? Come on...? Please...? This is not about winning an argument or being morally superior. It is about what behavior is expected in a marriage. I never said they have to be on their hands and knees to come back. But I do believe that the real turning point for me in my marriage was when I finally said enough. When I came to the realization that there was certain behavior I was willing to accept, ground rules for both my spouse and me...when I stopped every sort of sob story game I played with him and myself...when I looked at myself and said hey I am not terrible and not solely responsible for his bad behavior or the salvation of this marriage...when I said to myself I will not go on compromising what I know to be right just to be married EVERYTHING changed. Not because it changed him but because I changed me. All I am saying is I dont care if I were the wife from hell (which I wasnt) nothing justifies cheating. And all of you who have misjudged me should know that I stood on no moral high ground. I blamed myself for every mistake he made. "If I were better he wouldnt have done this." I would literally ask him what I was doing wrong to make him unhappy...how could I improve his life...I lowered myself to care for his every supposed heartache while he lied and cavorted. I said what a terrible wife I must be to have driven him to other women...to hurt me time and agian. He took advantage of my willingness to work on the marriage. Just as I believe Mortarman's wife is doing to him. I never contemplated another man. I kept a beautiful house. I did all the bills. I took care of his every need. I gave him freedom...never doubted him or questioned him. And not to sound arrogant, but I am well educated, a pillar in my community and according to him I am beautiful and fulfill him sexually beyond his wildest dreams. But even all this was wrong. According to one therapist, I was no challenge...too perfect. I went with him to counseling. I stood by him when he told his parents they were going to be grandparents and I wasnt the mother. I retained the lawyer that arranged a most aggreeable child support arrangement. I helped him keep his job when he became involved with employees. I am a better mother to the OW child than her own mother is...not for my husband but for her. The child has never heard a bitter word about her mother from us because I say it isnt right. In the child's mind we are quite aimable. I must face this woman weekly. The child loves her mother. My husband hates her (former OW) and without my encouragement he would have nothing to do with his own child. Now years later after all the soul searching, after all I did to make it work...He has changed but all that I did to not be right and stay married affected me negatively. I am not saying call names, berate, or unload on her. I am saying the best thing for me was deciding this is how I am going to live my life. You can either change or leave. But whatever you do this is the life I am living. What haunts me now is that if I would have reacted that way after the first affair would he have changed then...(because he does say that my ultimatum is what finally brought him out of the fog)maybe, maybe not. I do know that looking at his affairs as proof of my inadequacies as a wife and an indicator of what I needed to do to fulfill him took its toll on me. And I just hope that isnt what is happening to Mortarman. The question isnt about righteousness vs married. It is about be accountable in life as a human being. Mortarman is acknowledging the detrimental things he did/does in his marriage...his wife is NOT.

Dear Mortarman,
That last post was kind of a cathartic reaction on my part for my benefit and clarification to you and those who disagree with me. I am not here to people to a wayward spouse hating club. I just want to share and heal like the rest of the people here. Your situation just hit a nerve with me and if you do want to talk one on one sometime I would be happy to. Listening to you has helped me reflect on my own past. I can't exactly name how it does. It just does. I guess maybe finally knowing I am not alone. (not that I would wish this on my worst enemy) Having a place to vent. I just read what is going on in your life and I think of how similar things went on in mine and I was so alone. So seriously if you want to talk I am willing to listen anytime.

Hi Mortarman,

I don't know if this will help. Back before my H and I were married, but already had a family started. We lived together for about 2-3 years. When baby #2 was born, we decided to get married. H wanted brother to be best man. Was making wedding plans around H's brothers available vacation. About a month before brother was due in town, H met OW. H denies relationship, denies cheating on me. Brother comes to town, a month later, H leaves and moves out. For about 6 months, I begged, asked him to try again, kept asking what went wrong, got no where. I kept getting vague answers, and I don't knows. At about the 6 month date, I decided I had enough and I could not continue this way, and it was time for me to move foward. At the time we lived together, his mom owned a duplex. She lived in one unit, we lived in the other. As long as I was living there I could not move foward. I honestly believe that somewhere deep down he knew that and figured while I lived there, I was always going to be there for him to come back to when he was good and ready. I made plans to move to my own place. I stopped asking him about us and where our relationship was going. He noticed, and started coming around more. When I found a place to move to, I told him. He tried to stall me, by wanting to look at it first. I did not wait on him. I looked at it, signed the lease and moved in.

What I am saying is, concentrate on what is good for you and your kids. Work on improving you. She will notice. One of the attitudes I took was that he is the father of my children, and I will treat him with that respect for the children. I stopped concerning myself with his activities. I asked the normal questions, such as how is work, how was your day, things such as that. I showed interest in him as a person. I didnt' do this with any intention of making our relationship work. When he started coming around wanting things to work, I treated it as dating in a new R. That helped me to get through the what is he doing, who is he with. I tried to not let it bother me. I hope this helps you.

Thanks all for the words of support. It has meant more than you know to have you all here to help give me a kick in the pants as i have gone through the last two weeks and the dive my marriage has taken.

Nick123: Yeah, I am kind of thinking about something in the Plan A/Plan B realm. Not sure how that would work out. How much aloofness and how much do I let her see or hear still remains to be seen. Got to get steve to let me know more on this. one of the major things I am trying to decide is do I pay ANY of her bills. I know she will lose her car because she is in a position right now where she cannot afford it. And when I dump all of her bills on her, of course that will be a major LB (her #1 need is financial support). She has said she wants me to give her all her bills and to not worry about it. but, dont know if that is anger talking or if she really means it. And, does she really want to go the bankruptsy route like she says. if that is true, then that just goes to show how badly she wants out. I still have trouble (as well as everyone who knows both of us) understanding what has caused her to want to leave, have an affair, and now want to leave so fast as to not give us a chance and to even force herself into bankruptsy court. So, I have still a lot to work out here.

JL: Roger. Wilco. As of this point, no more questions or comments about us. She wants to talk about it, then that's on her. She unloads on me, I will just shut up, listen and then get off the phone or walk away. I am thinking though that she is on the way to divorce court. She is so damn stubborn that she would just keep going, even though she knew it was wrong. So, my hope in her turning this around wanes everyday. I am now doing this not to really save the marriage, but to complete the mission that I set out to do. Thus, I am shifting my attention and resources to another front as I begin to realize that this battle may be lost. But, I will not show that to her. Because, as you said before, you never know when an opportunity may come along. It is as of now, the probability is not high.

ayslyne: I will take you up on that talking deal soon. I understand what you are saying and I am reaching somewhat the point you are talking about. I believe Plan A is somewhat being a doormat. It is to allow me to work on me, and to let her see the changes. That way, once I am done putting up with the crap and go to Plan B, the last things she remembers are how great I am. So, your point is well taken but I believe that is more suited for Plan B. Steve harley still has me in Plan A, but we may be making that change rather soon if things dont change or get worse. Again, thanks for the post and we will be talking.

Sue: It is good, as always, to hear from you. Again, it seems everyone here has the same theme on this. So, that is what I will do. I took my son to baseball practice yesterday, then invited some friends over afterwards to my new place for some pizza, etc. Almost felt like old times (except my WW was usually there). So, I am going to try to fill my days and my kids days with things to help us move forward. I am not sure about paying her bills, like I said above. I think I want to get my key back to the house now that she is out, but dont know what kind of message that sends, since I told her she could have it in the first place because I wanted her to feel like it was her home and for her to eventually come back. I am not even sure if I want her coming over, but instead meet at a neutral place. All things I need to pass by Steve next week. Of course, that is next week, and there are alot of chances for me to LB over the next week (like with the bills....I have to either pay them or give them to her by tomorrow...if she is really leaving, I do not want to pay them...she has already caused a financial strain on me and the kids and since she is the one being irresponsible, I am thinking that maybe I should just let her have them even though it will be a huge hit on the ole love bank). Anyway, still confused about everything. I look at her and just dont understand how she got where she is or that she would even contemplate a future without me and with someone else. She is so messed up. I nolonger recognize her.

Asylyne and Mortarman --
I strongly discourage you from contacting each other outside of this board.

Married people of opposite sex should not contact each other and commiserate about the badness of relationships -- its headed for trouble.

Lots of EA's start out as "friends" "just talking" "we connected".....you're in too vulnerable of situations right now.

Please don't.

Lexxxy...point well taken! I will keep it here, out in the open. one of the biggest reasons that I have not just canned everything and moved on is that I know that my faith doesnt allow it. my wife believed in the same things too before she did what she did. I cannot now put myself in the position to do as they have. Even though that means that I will probably be alone until either she comes back or the divorce is final, and both may be a long way off. My faith allows me to leave her now because of the adultery. but until that divorce is final, she is still my wife and anyone allowed into my life that could constitute an affair makes me an adulterer also. And I am unwilling to go that route, even though I can see how my wife probably took the easy road when things got tough. I just hope the Good Lord is looking down on me and will not let me sit in this too much longer. I hope he will wake my wife up, but am afraid that it is going to take something serious happening before she will see the truth. by then, it may be too late.

Anyway, point well taken! Thanks.

In His arms.

Whoaaaaaa hold it there guys, you cant be serious

Even the Talebans are more liberal than that!

In my view it's absolutely OK to talk to someone of the opposite sex. The point is that you have to set your boundaries and respect the other ones boundaries. If you feel that the other person is flirting, or interpretes some of your actions as flirting, that's the moment in time when you have to hit the brakes. Until then? Go ahead.

I understand what you are saying Nick. The problem here is this is exactly how my christian wife got sucked into the affair. I was largely unresponsive to here needs for the last year before I left for Bosnia last September. I had many problems going on and was not doing well. then I up and disappear for Bosnia for 7 months and leave everything to her to handle. For the year prior to the A, she had struck up a friendly conversation with this guy at the gym. She even knew that he was sort of hitting on her, but she was committed and in love with me, so she just kind of blew it off. When 9/11 happened, and I was in Bosnia, she freaked out. She ended up calling him over to our house and they talked for hours. he calmed her down...and thus began the saga that ended up with her deciding the marriage was over 9but didnt tell me) and then pursuing him. and a few weeks later, they are in my bed.

Even under the best of circumstances, we can be vulnerable. Things for my wife were not half as bad as they are for me right now and she fell right into it and cannot get out of it now. All it would take is for someone to step up, meet a few needs (most have not been met in almost a year) and the next thing I know I am rationalizing like she did about how it is okay to go further.

Waaayyy to dangerous to take a chance. My WW should have confided and leaned on her girlfrineds. When she leaned on this guy as a friend, he filled the ole love bank to the point where I became replaceable and he became irresistable. Who am I to say that I am stronger or better than my mife in a similar circumstance? Her mistake was having a male friend be so close and to allow him to meet needs. The affair was an eventuality to all of that. we all must learn that we must build some walls to the opposite sex. None of us is affair proof. And right now, all it would take is a slight breeze to blow me over.

In His arms.

Okay guys and gals....here's where the rubber meets the road. I have heard all of you loud and clear. Now, I just have to put it into some sort of practical application. here are some questions i am confronted with before I meet with Steve harley next week to get his call on it.

1. Since she has left, and she has caused both of us a financial strain, AND I am responsible now for the kids well being (food, clothing, jouse, school supplies, baby sitter, etc)...should I just not pay anything and drop the whole load on her. Because of the route she has headed in, I havent paid her car payment in two months. She will definitely lose it soon. She says she is going to sell it, declare bankruptsy on the rest of her bills. She has $12,000 sitting in the bank that she says she does not want to spend. It may be for her boob job and for the legal fight to come when and if she files for separation/divorce. Meantime, my resources are drying up, every penny is paying all of our bills and I want to know if I should continue. If I do, is it helpful by meeting some of her needs? If I dont, will it just take a huge withdrawal from the love bank and push her further away? If I am truly in Plan A, then I want her to feel comfortable with me. but also want to take care of myself and kids and get started with life again. So, what gives? it seems like which ever way I go, it is full of danger. Is this a no win situation?

2. Do I ask for the key to our house back? She has moved everything out that she owns or would be divided up to her in divorce. there is nothing of hers left. She has talked about staying there with the kids when I am gone out of town because her apartment is so small. To me, that seems to be her problem. but, maybe allowing her to stay there would make her comfortable and want to be there with the kids more often. the flip side to that is I dont want her wandering in anytime she wants, especially when i am not there. Added to that, if she is truly leaving and this is over, I definitely dont want her there going through my stuff, computer, etc trying to find out what is going on. So, another no winner here...right?

I'll have more questions soon on how to handle this. if I am going to do this, then I need to do it right. Especially people like Lexxxy, who are former WS's, as well as the rest of you....guidance here is very important. it is too bad my appointment with Steve isnt until the 15th!!

In His arms.

1. if your standard of living drops, it's only fair if her's drops too... after all, it's a consequence of her action. I wouldnt go as far as her having no shelter & being hungry, but if she has to sell her car: too f*ing bad.

2. that's with regard your decision whether it's A or B.... get some advice from Master Harley next time. I understand you still A-ing, so whenever she comes to your house, make her stay as pleasant as possible. Once it's B, then simply change the locks - end of story.

Ooooh, I wish I had some really good pellets of knowledge...but I keep shaking my head and nothing really good is falling out.

Let me say this. Our situation was probably very similiar in that I left, took practically everything, and just wanted to be left alone. Hubby assumed the marriage was over...and that actually hurt me very much.

It really doesn't matter WHAT her overall intent or thoughts are right now. They WILL change. And deep down I'm sure she will miss you and the life you had together. But in order to believe that it's something she would be willing to go back and fight for...she needs to see real changes in you. Not butt kissing surface stuff...real, genuine "I get it" kind of stuff. In order for you to get that...you have to change your focus from HER and her intent...to YOU and your life.

I've heard that military and police often have huge control issues. I'm not pointing fingers. There are obvious reasons for that. Anyway...if that IS a possibility...you need to work on that. And learning to let go of the "what if's" and trying to get the upper hand in a situation you can't POSSIBLY predict...would be a good start.

JR recommended the book The Language of Letting Go. I can't remember who it's by, but type it into Amazon.com or go to a bookstore and they probably have it. It's not about giving up hope for your marriage...but learning to let go of the need to try to control the situation, either directly or indirectly.

My hubby did very little to cause our situation to go either way. He did nothing really wrong...he did nothing really right. I was hellbent on ending our marriage and having a life with the OM. Then I was hellbent on having a life...with who wasn't really of issue, but it sure wasn't going to be my H. Then, eventually...I just wanted my life back...and I really wanted it to be with my H.

Sometimes it helps to list what fears are driving you insane and not allowing your brain to rest. What's the worse that could happen? You lose your marriage? You find out she's intended on leaving you all along and has just been using you? Obviosly neither of those things are pleasant to think about...but certainly either are overcomeable.

You need to calm down...quit analyzing...be pleasant...and get a life. Being a great dad and a fun person to be around really went a long way in me remaining interested in being around my hubby.

Do get yourself a bed. Put up a picture of your own. Do things that show you are accepting of where you are at in life. Show that you can take care of yourself and your children. These things are attractive.

Yes, she's lost...but you can't be the one to find her and rescue her from herself. It's a job only she can do. Any interference from you might simply chase her further away.

As far as financially....you need to do whatever you need to do to protect yourself and your children there. It's possible legal councel may be needed in that area.

I also agree to stay away from commiserating...especially privatly and ESPECIALLY from a person of the opposite sex. Commiserating happens...but you can actually prevent productive thoughts from forming while you are airing your feelings. And boundries are awfully hard to set and keep when you're in pain and not having your needs met. You're way better off staying away from possible dangerous grounds, then trying it and finding yourself in deeper than you'd intended.

Geez, I hope that helps in some way. If you have a specific question I might be able to better help. Take care and good luck!!

Mortarman,

I'm a very late comer to your post but I read all three pages with deep interest. I even had to break for a period of time as all of those old feelings were right on the surface again. I could see me trying so hard to get my W back and her telling me constantly, "you're smothering me and I can't take it anymore."

I agree with what most of the others have been telling you. No matter how hard, no matter how much it hurts, you have to stop talking to her about the relationship. I can feel your pain and indecisiveness as it was only a year ago for me. I wish I could forget it!!!

I was counseling with Jennifer at the time and I just remember her so sternly and repeatedly saying, "you have to back off or you will lose her forever." My options were quite simple - backoff!!!

I tried as hard as I could to stop focus on the R and talk about more "general things." As Jennifer counseled, "when you were both falling for each other, did you used to talk continuously about your relationship and which direction it should or was going to take?" NO!!! We talked about us and little things about her, about me, about our families, about music, about romance. The small things that meant something to her then are the reasons why she fell in love with me 18 years ago and I her. It was the basics that would help it to happen again.

I was determined to focus on these type of conversations. There was one more thing Jennifer said had to be incorporated -- "I had to sound UPBEAT and full of enthusiasm." Ugh, there I was losing my wife, my family, potentially my house, our business (you know the story) and I have to be upbeat. Yep!

You still have all that commonality in you and between you but with one exception, you now have even more -- your children. My advice would be to direct your conversations back to the basics, your children, her job (it sounds like job and school conversation has worked great for you) the barbeque you had with the neighbors (as the other person suggested) -- small talk. Make her feel as though she is missing something with you but not too much (you have to use a delicate balance). With her not hearing about "relationship relationship" she can better focus on the basics herself and quite possibly the fog will clear and let her reminisce back to "more simple times" and nature will take its course.

Mortar, we're living testimony that it does work. I've been where you are - apart, alone and feeling like there was no hope. Our situation started to turn around in a matter of 6 hours, that's how quickly it can happen (other things with the OM began to unfold). But at the start of that first hour she was going with him - forever. So don't lose hope. I know that it was because of people here and Jennifer's "grinding" on me to stop pesting were one of the keys that was able to put us into a recovery mode.

It's time to work on you! Not the both of you. YOU ! Your workings will flow over to your children, your family and friends and your wife - your ultimate goal!

I pray it will work for you...

Keep the faith,

MITT

Hi Mortarman,
You have received some great advice and from those who have been there and back.

All I can say is, financially, take care of you and the kids. Those kids are your number one priority financially. Her bills would have been paid if she would not have taken 1/2 from the bank. How does she plan to file bankruptcy with 12 grand in the bank? She has to declare how much she has. This is not your concern. Your concern is the children and yourself. You can Plan A still, Plan A means take care of yourself and the kids, focus on yourself, and the kids. I forget who suggested it, but keep conversations to the basics, don't discuss relationship stuff at this point. If she brings it up, go with the conversation, such as answering her questions but don't try to force any issues or steer the subject.

Regarding the key, can you wait until you talk to Steve to get his input? Will a week make that much of a difference? If you were in Plan B, then I would say definitely get the key back or change the locks.

Good luck and concentrate on you and the kids. They need you and you need them.

Sue