I Would like to ask your opinions of this please?

My husband(BS, WS who had EA), jdmac1, still talks to the OW he admitted having an EA with, to you people. JD talks to this woman on the phone at night, both when I am awake and when I am sleeping. Note that he also talks to this womans boyfriend when they talk. There are times when the boyfriend is asleep as well as myself. JD doesn't try to go into a different room, he lays in bed with me and talks on the phone about whatever they talk about. He tells me this should be proof that he isn't trying to slip around and hide their talking from me, and that he is only friends with her(and BF).

I try to explain how this looks to me, and how it makes me feel. JD told me he did not care, he was going to talk to her and be friends with her. He says he wants me to be friends with her as well. But it is hard because they talk all hours of the night when I am sleeping and I feel like he shouldn't be on the phone with a woman. He also lets this woman know when I wake up, and that I am upset due to them talking on the phone. I feel that when I wake up he should only tell her he has to go, not whether or not I might be upset.

My question is,

Am I making more out of this than there is? Or is this as JD says? That they are just friends and nothing more? That he does not want to lose more friends, as he did during my mistakes.

I have read the things JD has posted on this board lately about loving me and wanting recovery. Can I believe him? I am trying very hard to show that I still love and want him.

Thanks for any replies.

sjmac1

Sounds like a tough spot to be in. Me, I would feel and request the same things you are, but that's most likely because we know what a good thing we have and don't want another woman drooling over him.

Have you thought about and/or considered his request for you to be friends with them? Maybe the two of you can come to a sort of agreement. Explain that it makes you uncomfortable, as you're sure he should be able to understand, and that you also understand his desire to keep his friends. Look at the fact that he is friends with they BF as well and the fact that yes he doesn't hide it from you. Mention that you would appreciate it if he wasn't on the phone ALL hours of the night, and that when you wake you would rather have him simply say something like, my wife just woke up so I'm going to spend some time with her. Suggest that you might not be as upset with something like this. Then, work on trying not to be so upset.

Boy, I just thought of something - I should take my own advice. Side note: My DH had a friend (female) who is a customer at his work. She lives in another state and they have only had phone contact. I can't stand her! She knows about my affair and that bothered me a lot. She also saw a picture of us on the internet (from a work project) and mentioned how cute he is. She also said I am pretty, but I just thought that was a crock. Anyhow, last year she sent him a CD for his birthday. She would call periodically or e-mail and ask how he was doing and how things are going. It really bothered me a lot so he cut off all contact for me. Guess I shouldn't really have asked that, but he wanted to do it in a sense for us.

Ok, enough about me. I do know how you feel. It looks like DH isn't wanting to budge much, so I hope that you can find some mid-point somewhere. Maybe talking to the woman and eventually going out as a group?! Does she know about your affair? Does she know how you feel about the EA between them? Maybe you could try talking to her and express your discomfort but your willingness to try to make it work all around (friends, etc.) and ask that she help some in keeping the late calls not so late all the time, etc.

I hope this helps some. My best to you, take care.

Hi- I do not at all think you are wrong, I think JD is.... What is he thinking trying to be frieends with woman he had ea with? WHAT is this all about!!! I say NO!

H

My perspective is probably colored by past experience with affairs, but....

jd's behavior sounds exactly like someone involved in an on-going EA, IMHO. At best, it's disrespectful of him, especially since you told him how you feel about it. No POJA there, huh.

I'd be highly suspicious and VERY upset if my H talked at length on a continuous basis to any woman (who wasn't his mother <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) at night or any other time of day! Once a person has crossed the line into an EA or PA, they lose the right to have "good" friends of the opposite sex. At least that's how my H and I see it now. No friendship should be worth losing the love or respect of your spouse - period.

Sounds like perhaps ya'll need to have another open and honest discussion about this. I hope you can POJA somehow.

Lori

tutter13,

I feel like I have tried to be friends with them, but it seems like they still talk to each other way too much. I also feel very awkward trying to be friendly with someone I feel my H has has an EA with. I don't think I should be placed in that position. I know JD would not allow it, if the shoe was on the other foot and I was talking to a man at night.

Not hiding the calls from me and being friends with the BF is a plus. But it still troubles me. Why? Could it be guilt from what I did that causes me to worry this way?

Honey,

Thanks for your reply. I am not too sure he is thinking.

at peace,

Well, JD tried to get me to follow the POJA when everything came out. I admit that I was the one who refused. I felt at the time that JD would use the POJA as a way to get HIS way in everything. Sounded sort of stupid at the time. Plus he stated he would not quit talking to OW no matter what I thought about it.

He says the reason for this is because he lost several close friends back when we were having major problems. He doesn't feel he should lose more now. Is this wrong?

I just wish he could see what this is doing to me.

sjmac1

I think he should stop all contact with her immediately. It is completely disrespectful to you for him to keep up any contact with her at all. It does not matter how he rationalizes it.

I will not consider myself in recovery until all contact, even at work, however minimal, between my WW and the OM is terminated. Until then, it is still Plan A/B/D.

I think he terminated his right to have her as a friend when he had the EA with her. My opinion.

sj,
I'd like to validate your feelings and fears. You have a right to be uncomfortable. And I'm glad you came here for some ideas.

Now, I will steer you in the direction that we steer brand new BS's that come here. You can't force him to change. We can't either - although we might bop him on the head next time he shows up here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> . Just kiddin.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

The best thing you can do is learn everything you can about Plan A, and work your buns off.

Have you identified his top Emotional Needs? Have you asked for specific ways he would like you to meet them?

Have you identified Love Busters and are working to eliminate those?

Love and passion and romance can be rekindled in a marriage when both partners are doing these things. Striving to meet the other person's needs and avoid causing pain.

Since ya'll haven't been posting much, we're not sure what kind of recovery you are in - what kind of plan you are following to move forward in your marriage. That's why I'm bringing up these thoughts for you. I imagine that if you bend over backwards using MB principles, you will get his attention <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

Another thought here.... You say, "doesn't he know what he's doing to me?" Well, he should, yes. He had a terrible time - very painful - as a BS. He often asked the same question about you: "doesn't she know what she's doing to me?"

NOW.... I'm NOT saying that turn-about is fair-play... not at ALL. But I'm asking you to recall the thoughts you had while you were having an affair. IF he's involved too much with this woman, then he is somewhat "foggy", and thinks he is not hurting you, OR he does not CARE due to the pain he suffered last year. Is that right for him to do that??? NO!!!

SO for now, my advice is to Plan A your buns off. Remind him occasionally (not nagging or begging) that his relationship with her makes you uncomfortable, but work on yourself, and sorta "prove" to him that you are not going anywhere, so that he will choose to get off the phone.

Whattaya think?

SJ,

Disrespectful. JD are you reading this? To say you 'dont care and will talk anyway', is not proof of your honesty but of your disrespect.

Now JD, are you giving your W the green light to do the same? Come on now, you know the info here. You are aware of the principles. You have read the books.

JD, right now I am in the middle of helping a mother who was kicked out of her house by the WS. The WS even sent me an e-mail accusing his W of sleeping with her XH while she was here with us! He got more wacko, he tried to give me a name of a woman who he wanted to have 'supervise' his visits. When the mother did not recognize the name, she recalled that he might have used this name as a cover name for the OW (go figure, tried to get the OW to supervise his visits with his child!).

Even though your situation is not as serious, what is there to stop if from becoming as such? Once the A spiral starts, JD you know what can happen. Has that spiral already started with you?

Right now I have very little tolerance for stupid WS' antics. JD, I recommend you re-examine yourself and decide whether you like emotionally hurting your family or are willing to stop this bad association. This other person can make it through life without you. Right?

Now if your W is making this stuff up, then you may choose to explain that to us. For now, what she is saying is enough to raise a few eyebrows and emotional alarms.

Hope my writing bluntly didn't whack you too hard. But I sure hate to see a good man go to waste doing the A downward spiral.

Beside, I want this book to have a happy ending. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> OK?

L.

JD knows better. Knock it off, JD.

sj,

I agree with the advice to Plan A jd. As a FBS, that is exactly what I want my FWS to do. I have even considered starting something like jd has started. What stopped me? Knowing that I would be inflicting the same torture on my FWS that he inflicted on me. This was not a quick and easy decision for me to come to though.

If I may, I would like to post to jd here too...

jd, what happens when sj becomes friends with OW and her BF? What happens when sj and OW's BF start their own phone conversations? You have to know that sj will be educating BF on EA's and that, it itself, means your A would be on borrowed time. Who knows...OW's BF just might sign on at MB. YOU would no longer have total control over all the things that you do now. And heaven forbid, what happens if sj and OW's BF get "too close for YOUR comfort"??

If you are doing this for the sole purpose of punishing sj, I would ask you to reconsider doing this. It isn't good for anyone involved, including YOU and maybe ESPECIALLY you. I understand wanting to do this, really I do, because I've considered it myself many times and for a loooooong time.

jd, in previous posts you've come across as a man who loves his wife. Reach under the hurt to act toward her with love.....translation: dump the OW and ask sd to meet those needs and then help her to do that for you.

I wish you and sj the best.

Hi sjmac1,
Welllllll, some questions came to my mind while I was reading your situation and I was just wondering if jd is holding onto this OP because he enjoys having YOU feel uncomfortable instead of him? In other words, hanging onto the OP sort of gives him the upper hand seeing how you are willing now to work on things and improve the marriage?

Kind of weird tho because his behavior and unwillingness to take your feelings into consideration (over the friendship) seems to be sabotaging your progress? At least that's the way it appears from the outside looking in...

Wonder if he is afraid of being vulnerable to you again and this EA friendship is his insulation or way of protecting himself emotionally?

Regardless, in SAA, the MB way is to always always take our spouses' feelings into consideration and obviously you have stated that this habit he has of talking to her on the phone at night makes you UNCOMFORTABLE. In other words, this behavior of his is becoming a source of your unhappiness. In other words, he is love busting and NOT adding love bank units into your account.

Maybe he feels entitled to do this as a way of punishing you for the past? Maybe he feels like he is making up for all the nights he cried and felt frustrated because he thought he had lost you? Maybe he is trying not to care so much because he never wants to feel that hurt ever again?

It sounds like his Taker is trying to take over. If you are not enthusiastically supportive of this friendship, then it is definitely a violation of the Policy of Joint Agreement. I admire your self-restraint!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ July 30, 2002, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: jdmac1 ]</small>

I think real recovery is when you OWN your mistakes and cut the mistake from your life,thus reassuring your wife. There are all kinds of priorities, and I'm sure your W wishes that you would act on your biggest priority. Why is this friendship so "in your face"....Late at night , shouldn't you be in bed with your W? Maybe reading or catching the news or something? I would be upset at that kind of intensity no matter who my H was talking to...but it isn't just anyone...it was the person and her significant other you had an affair with? Now, how is your wife going to heal and move forward if you can't ?

I think once you cross the line, it becomes your job to reassure your W so that she can build trust in you. I think you are sending a double message, and that you should ask yourself why. All kinds of friends are terrific, but a marriage is sacred.

jd, I'm glad you are reading. But I thought you weren't gonna crash sj's threads? We're glad to hear you say you are comfortable that you are not having an EA. But the point is, that sj is uncomforrtable with it, and there must be a way you 2 can agree on this. One priority in recovery is protection. Protect sj - in ANY way that's necessary - from this fear. You both need to build trust right now.

sj, check back in with us, k? We added a few more thoughts since your last reply. Several different perspectives for you to think about. We all validate your discomfort with jd's friendship.

You two can do this! We believe in you!!!

I would like to say thanks for all of the replys. I'm sorry it is taking me awhile to answer the post but I'm in the proses of doing it.

thanks sj

Sad Tiger,

I'm not trying to tell jd that he can't have these people for friends, I just get upset when he gets on the phone with her and talks for hours at a time. He says that he talks to the bf more than he does her but I don't see that. When he is on the phone with her it is like no one matters but her. I try to ask him what they are talking about and he will put his hand up, like shut up and not talk to me right now, and that hurts me.

Faith1,

I feel like I am working hard on everything. I tell him and show him every day how much I love him. I feel like I am bending over backward for jd. I do love him and I have told him several times that him talking on the phone to her all the time hurts me and makes me feel uncomfortable. I have even told him that I didn't care if he talks to her but limit his talking to her to about 15 to 20 min. but he doesn't. Then when I get upset because he is on the phone too long he tells her that he has to get off because I'm mad at him for being on the phone so long. I feel like he does that to make me look like a bad person.

I feel like I do fill his emotional needs and I have been telling him that he is the only one that I want and need. I tell him every little bit that I love him so much.

Yes faith, there are times that I feel he does this to show me how it feels. Yes, this last year I was withdrawn from him but all that was going through my mind was that I didn't deserve a man like this and I did not deserve his love at all, if I did why did I do what I did.

Orchid,

Thanx, and I'm going to do what ever it takes to make this book end with a very happy ending. We are talking about what we are going to do around Christmas this year, with our children and our grandchild, and last year that was the furthest thing from our minds.

MelodyLane,

Thanx. With all of the support and advice we get here I know we will get through this.

YetAgain,

Yes you can post here to jd too. We try to set down and read these together and answer them together. I do love jd with all my heart and I don't want to loose him to something like this.

BINthereDUNthat ,

I don't know, but wish I did, he says that he is not holding on to her to hurt me. He tells me that he wants me to be friends with them to but I feel very hurt and uncomfortable when they talk on the phone.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Wonder if he is afraid of being vulnerable to you again and this EA friendship is his insulation or way of protecting himself emotionally? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I'm sure he does but he needs to understand that I'm not going anywhere, and that I love him with all my heart and I'm going to do whatever I can not to ever hurt him and I want him to do the same for me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Maybe he feels entitled to do this as a way of punishing you for the past? Maybe he feels like he is making up for all the nights he cried and felt frustrated because he thought he had lost you? Maybe he is trying not to care so much because he never wants to feel that hurt ever again?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know I messed up and hurt him but does that give him the right to hurt me now? N0, I don't think so because that is doing nothing but making things worse for us and that is not what we want. I'm sure it is true that he doesn't want to feel that hurt and pain again, but I have been doing what ever it takes to let him know that I love him and don't ever want to hurt or loose him.

debra kay,

You are right I feel like when I'm in bed that he should be there with me. That has been a lot of our troubles in the past. I feel like as long as he is in bed reading or watching tv it is all right. At least he is in bed with me. But being in bed with me and talking to another women is like a slap in the face.

Faith1,

Thank you, I know that you and several others has helped jd through this last year and I'm so thankful for that. It is not like I totally want him to quit talking to her but there is a time to talk to her and a time not too. I also feel that he should limit his call to minutes, not hours.

Please if I am wrong let me know, or if I have blown this out of proportion let me know.

Thanks sj

need more advice.

Thanks,
sj

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Hmmm... well I agree with you on this one, but maybe it's not really about who is right or wrong, but negotiating an agreement between you two that is mutually satisfying and protective of each others' feelings.