Not complicated....

you see, THIS is the kind of response I was expecting! But let me remind you, Gibby, I'm looking for feedback from men who would be likely to have an affair proof marriage , and you can get SF ANYWHERE. Let's deepen it up a little... what do you really want from the woman you will spend the rest of your life with?

Danni,

Most importantly she needs to be my friend. There were many years I wasn't sure she even liked me. It's real hard for any action to affect your lovebank when you're questioning your partners basic commitment.

After that, if she "shows up naked and brings micro-brewed beer", that hits lot's of top ENs all at once.

I have trouble lately thinking of this in simple EN terms. I want a closer emotional connection. To get that I think we need to spend more time paying attention to each other- that's something she has trouble with and I can't do anything about!.

Playfulness (showing up naked would be a playful act on her part).

Being a team facing the world, rather than adversaries. (Done real good at this lately.)

... Did I say be my friend, yet? (lol) That's what will keep me coming home. When I need to confide, or confess, or complain, or show off... she's the one I want to talk to FIRST. Along this line- she's been calling me up a lot at work during the day to keep me informed of the little tidbits going on at home (teenagers!). I know I'm on her mind.

I know, a little disjointed...

Jeffers

OK! OK! Ease up a little............Deeper thoughts.................Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Got IT! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Long finger nails for back scratches and scalp massages!!

Thanks Gibby,

You're a bottomless pit of insight.

Now if you'll excuse me I have a nail appointment! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Seriously, you made me laugh... THANX!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Danni

LOL!! My hubby LOVES my fingernails to scratch his back with. He also says that SF used to be higher on the list, but after a year of seperation that lustful desire kind of died down. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I'm working on waking that up again!!

Hubby and I never used to be very close of friends. Since we got back together we've done everything together in order to try to have more in common and more time together. It's WORKED! We're the closest of friends now and only getting closer by the day. He's the first person I want to tell good news to and the first person I need to talk to when I'm upset or burned out. That's HUGE progress for us!!!

C'mon guys keep the thread going... I know you're out there!

I'm back Danni...I think you cannot underemphasize the hero aspect. I was a very successful athlete when I was younger and my career ended just as I met my wife. She only heard some of my war stories about my career when we started Marital Counseling, something she entered into in order to make her decision to divorce me more palatable for me.

Fortunately, this has changed, but we have a long way to go. She is only now beginning to respond to my months of Plan Aing...She told me she was proud of something I did the other day and I was ready to walk hot coals for her.

I also suggest reading Michele W-D's Divorce Remedy...she describes a gripefest she witnessed where wives were complaining about their husbands. She suggested that they decide to give their husbands SF every night for a week and see what happens. I'll let you read the book to see what happened, but this is not the only, but one of the most effective way for wives to show appreciation for their husbands. It's the number 1 EN for 90% of men, and the only ones it's NOT #1 for is those of us who have given up expecting much of it... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Thanks for starting this thread, may it benefit someone...anyone, of our gender.

I've learned that Mr. Pepper likes it when I listen to him with my mouth closed!

I kid you not. It only took me 20 years to figure this gem out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

P <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Willy,

I guess I really underestimated the EN of admiration and being [my] hero. Tonight, my H returned home from work after a 9 day vacation. He still works with OW and I was axious and nervous about his return sparking a conversation between the two of them...you know..."I missed you...how are things at home...etc." Needless to say I'm always worried about his feelings for her re-surfacing.

Anyway, after expressing my anxiety to him (he knew something was on my mind) he explained that he doesn't feel that he "needs" her anymore because of what we have together now, and I felt so much better after we talked. I remembered your reply and told him that I appreciate his openness because I felt so "rescued" whenever he says things like that. I thanked him for renewing his commitment and being the kind of man who would be brave enough to do so.

Let me tell you, I don't think he's ever held me like that in 9 years of marriage. I could feel the appreciation he felt for being acknowledged that way. I can't believe I ever missed that. There are so many things I love and admire about him... I guess I need to make it a point to let him know as often as I can. Thank you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Pepperband,

My H likes it when I shut up and listen, too. He's always said that when I was able to do that, it was an intense turning point for him in his feelings for OW changing and his decision to renew his commitment to our M.

I just thought about something. When I first discovered H's A I got the same advice from several people...DON'T CRY IN FRONT OF HIM.

Today, Leilana posted a quirky little list of MEN'S #1 RULES and one of them said "CRYING IS BLACKMAIL". I can see how a man could feel extremely manipulated by a woman's tears, crying jags, etc. even though sometimes we can't help ourselves. How do you guys feel about it? Just curious!

The Hero thing is big for me, too. (In Harley terms, I have a high need for Admiration.) It is a big part of mythology and sci-fi fantasy stories, which I enjoy. I put up with major problems between us because she did show appreciation for the things I did. As things got worse, that deteriorated (still before her affair), and I came pretty close to leaving, but it is really hard to give up and walk out when you are trying to be a hero. I grasped at any little effort I saw on her part and tried to make that enough to inspire me to continue. It had a big impact on why I stayed in the marriage after D-Day - hero's don't give up, do they?

So:

Dear Wife:
Tell me you admire me (and what you admire)
Tell me you love me (and why)
Tell me I'm special to you (and why and how)
Tell me you have faith in me (and why and for what)
Tell me you want to spend time with me (and what you want to do)
Tell me you desire me (more than anyone else, ever)
Tell me you appreciate my efforts (which ones in particular)

Even more than that, SHOW me, because actions speak louder than words.

Yes, I am printing this thread for my wife, even though we have discussed these things and things are MUCH better than in the past.

Like the "show me" statement, the items in parenthesis are to make the statements more real. "I appreciate your efforts" is much less powerful than "I really appreciate it that you took the time today to read to our youngest before bed", for example.

It's interesting to read this thread again...I am home alone, FWW is at vacation place we have a little over an hour away. I left this morning after a conversation. We headed down a road that always seems to end up in the same place, her inability to provide me with wifely appreciation (SF)"anytime soon."

YOu would think I was the one who had the affair.

I have to wonder if I am wasting my time. I just can't believe that someone else wouldn't appreciate all the wonderful things I do for this person. I am tired of being FROZEN out. I know all this makes me vulnerable as well, but I am strongly committed to fidelity. That's what we heroes do...so when does the fair maiden we saved realize that? Are are we fooling ourselves?

I will head back down tomorrow to see her and my D up from camp. D is ticked at mom for not doing a better job of truly reconciling with me, and that is a train crash waiting to happen when D gets me alone and asks me how things are going with mom. I can lie and say, "great", which is what I have been saying all summer...but she is smarter than that and continues to be ticked at mom...

...or I can be honest and tell her that I am running out of patience and would she like to come live with me after the divorce. (She volunteered that when I first told her W wanted a divorce.)

This is a big decision for me...I love my W but refuse to go through a marriage without intimacy. I don't want a roomate, I want a full partner.

Well I just can't resist jumping back into the ruckus. Soren Kierdergaard, a 19th century philosopher, describes three states of human development. They are the Aesthetic Man, the Ethical Man, and finally the Hero of Faith. He refers to a teleological suspension of logic and a leap of faith into the absurd. What does all this mean? For me, it is that leap of faith into a marriage that may seem at times absurd. I want to know that I am valued enough by my wife for her to not give up the fight....

Guardian

"teleological"....... huh?

'splain dis tang to me please. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

I think the word intended was "theological".
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Willy, you said word for word what my H would have said. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I want to be appreciated.
I want to be loved.
I want her to desire intimacy with me...and for me to be her hero...her focus...the most important thing in her life.
I want her to laugh at my jokes, even the old not so funny ones.
I want to be the center of her affections.
I want her to acknowledge that I am trying so hard.

Mostly, I want her to be in love with me, and put the past behind us...and act like we are teenagers in love... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We wrote our own vows when we got married. I wrote about a dozen things that he was to me. If you ask him, invariably the first one he would remember (maybe the only one <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) is that he was my hero.

When I found out about his A, I'm sure one of the most hurtful things I said to him was "some hero you turned out to be". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

The good news is yesterday he said something that was very heroic. He asked me if I'd like to move to a different place (a nice, furnished place) where he's heard they are going to have a vacancy soon. My first internal reaction was "we can't afford that". But thanks to Nikko and another thread, I am waking up and seeing daylight again. So instead I let him know how grateful I was that he's looking for ways of getting 'us' out of the bed that 'they' shared together. I could feel the joy radiating out of him for appreciating his trying to pull this off for me.

We probably won't be moving for a very long time but boy the conversation sure took us a long ways toward recovery. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Thanks for your response, EC. See, it is hard for me...part of being a hero is to not expect rewards for good deeds. But after a while, you feel, like Harley says in the Quick Start tape, like a chump. I stood by her when people wanted her job for her A...I was a good husband. I never yelled, vented, I forgave IMMEDIATELY. She said she knew I would. I consider it a good thing. I am beginning to wonder if she sees it as an opportunity.

The refusal to provide any SF, even non SI would be considerate, is like her last area of control. She has admitted using it as a reward, or lack of as punishment in the past. I feel we are getting there again. And I am not sure I can deal with that.

So, I must think.

This thread has helped me so much... I feel a lot differently about the ENs of men in general (THE "HERO" THING BLEW ME AWAY) and have a much better understanding of what it is my H wants from me. I can't thank you all enough for your replies and participation. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'd still like to hear more because if I was able to miss some of the things I have, I'm sure there's more and others may benefit from furher elaboration.

PLEASE KEEP POSTING!!!

I will tell you how a compliment makes you feel like a hero . My wife and I are seperated and are trying to sell our house. I have moved all our stuff to her house. I have cleaned and moved just about everything all by myself. I wanted it like this because I am determined to try and protect my wife from triggers that were associated to the house. I will continue to try and protect her even after God restores my marriage. She went by the house last nite to pick something up. She hasn't been there in a while. I was talking to her on phone today and she said " You have done a great job on the house. It looked great".

She doesn't know this but it brought tears to my eyes because just that one compliment made me feel like a million dollars. I guess it meant so much more this time because she hasn't been able to compliment me ( I haven't exactly deserved it)in the past 8 months. I know even if it hadn't been so long I would have still felt like a super hero.

Its amazing what just a few kind words can do for your spouse. Something we all need to learn how to do more.

Love in Christ
cajunky

<small>[ August 11, 2002, 11:46 PM: Message edited by: cajunky ]</small>

I guess I can weigh in as a man... what do I want???

It's been said that a man would love nothing more than to make love to his best friend... and I have to agree fully.

Since the best SF is between the ears, it's important to feel like your girl adores you... not much unlike for women, really.

And of course I want someone who's realistic in their expectations and "has it together"... Not saying they should compromise themselves... but be willing to accept the male / female differences, and find constructive ways to work in that framework. Heck, I just picked up a book, "What Women Want Men To Know" - hoping to learn a thing or two... it's that kind of proactive effort that I find attractive. (It wasn't such a need before... but it is now.)

Anyhow, my top 10 EN's (today):

Sexual Fulfilment
Recreational Companionship
Conversation
Honesty and Openness
Admiration
Physical Attractiveness
Affection
Domestic Support
Family Commitment
Financial Support