I e-mailed DH the following:

"Hey love how are you? I guess I'm doing ok. I was wondering if you were serious about counseling last night? I don't want to push it and seem like I'm pointing a finger, and I don't want to ignore it and seem like I don't care. If you were serious, do we go back to Claudia or find someone new? Should we try to get an apt. befor eyou leave?
DH, I'm scared a little. Did I royally screw up last night? I didn't mean to fumble my wording. You know I don't always say things the right way. Anyhow, I hate the fact that I robbed you of the safe feeling you were starting to have. That said, I just want you to know that you and I will make it through this and we will come out ahead after your trip. I will do everything I possibly can to make it go smoothly.
DH, you mentioned something the other night that I wanted to point out to you. You said about me needing my Knight in shining armour to sweep me off my feet. Honey, you are the only one who has ever and who ever will be able to sweep me off my feet. I miss you and I love you!"

DH replied as follows:

"W, I am not sure what to do or where to go. I just don't understand that I have been contempt with everything for so long, but all of a sudden things just don't seem right. It just feels like my heart and mind just put the brakes on and said hey look at the whole picture.

This could be right or can be wrong. Sometimes it feels like I am reliving the affair all over again for the first time. I am so down, it feels like I have withdrawn from everything around me except for DS. It's strang that no matter what I feel, DS seems to be the only thing I am sure of in my life.

I understand that you are sorry for what has happened in the past. But sometimes things we are sorry for still hurt the ones that we love the most. W, I don't hate you for what was done. I just don't feel the same way I did when before and after we got married. I busted my [censored] for years to communicate and to feel some type of love, but an answer never came knocking. Know that you have come back with love, communication, and a willing to succeed in our marriage. The problem that I have is I just don't know how to adjust or take what you are giving me.

I can't tell you, how lonely I felt and how much it hurt to not be counted in a relationship. It just hurt. Yes, the counseling helped us open up doors for communication that has been closed down for such a long time. But it felt that I was supposed to just accept and move on with out feeling or remoarse. Why it is happening now and not then I am not sure. Maybe the wall was think and big it just took this much time to make a dent into what my feelings actually mean to myself.

Sometimes people need to take two steps back in order to make one step forward. I am a very understanding person and feel very simpithetic for your feelings W. I don't try to make you hurt or to feel like you are suffering. It's just everytime I start to feel pain, I only remember a session with both of us and MC, stating that W has done the time, W has admitted to the fault and that their should be no fault to blame. Well how is a person to feel, when they think that they have no right too. It just leaves a circle of emotions with no way to express or release.

You ask me if I am leaving. No, I just haven't been able to find a way to feel safe in arms of a loved one. That is with parents, family, or etc. Honestly my biggest safe haven is with our son. DS has always been the one I feel the safest with. Because, DS has never judged me, but has loved me for who I am, and not who he wants me to be. This being what my parents, family, or friends have expected from me.

Sometimes it is said that it would be great for DS to be like his dad when he grows up. I just pray that DS becomes himself, and that he will never go through what I had to experience is twenty or so years. Because that would be a devasting factor for me to look and bare.

I feel that I have rambled enough. I love you and will always love you W. No, matter what being in past, present, or future, nonone will ever be so loved in my heart as much as I love you."

I replied with love compassion and understanding. I acknowledged and gave value to his feelings and told him that it's ok to feel his remourse now. I explained that I just need him to say I commit, no matter what or how hard it is, and that I will offer him the same commitment with all my heart. I also told him that I do not judge him and that I love him and I always have, it was communicating that I had trouble with. I said that I want to do everything to make him feel comfortable and safe and then when he does I will continue to give him every reason to always feel that way. I said that DS becoming just like him is a good thing because he is the best person I could think of for our son to look up to, and that he is the person I look up to.

Sorry this is so long and all, but I just wanted to get some thoughts on this. What next?

I think you did well, Tut, and I think his response was also good. It's natural for him to have these "ups and downs", try not to take them so hard...be there for him, and he will be there for you.

Thanks SC, it's just that some of the things he said hurt so. Like being alone and trying for so long with no answer from me, etc. It puts me in a mode to win his heart and I tend to be defensive. I just wish I could learn to be more calm and safe for him sometimes. I'm working on it and with people like you caring to follow me and offer insights, it helps a lot. Thank you.

Tutter...get a counselor.

I'm going to say that each and every time you ask a question and I reply. Because you can say the same thing 80 different ways and hubby still won't get it...and a counselor (if your hubby likes them) can say it one way and he will get it. A different perspective, especially one not skewed by the situation, often helps.

I also think a counselor might be able to explain to your hubby what mine got through my head. The marraige will NOT feel the same. That security was FALSE. It was the sense that nothing can go wrong if you don't want it to. That old "love is enough" line of bull. IT ISN'T and no one is perfect! He was living in a make believe dream world before and he DOESN'T like finding out he was wrong. He feels like a failure, and it's obvious to me that he DOES NOT like that. He doesn't want anything out there to prove he has flaws and makes mistakes. He is EXTREMELY insecure and it seems as if he is as naive and misinformed about marriage as I WAS! My OM was very much the same way...he wanted the dream and he didn't want to believe life had to be any other way. He thought if he wanted it all bad enough...it would just be the way he wanted. Not the case.

I left because I didn't feel secure in my marriage. I came back because I learned how to feel secure in MYSELF, so that I can be a part of a marraige and not rely on my partner for that assurance or strength. Your hubby isn't there yet, and he WON'T get there by himself. And YOU can't do the work for him either. He needs professional help...as does your marriage. Please...make an appt...with ANYONE!

Consider also...that each time you panic and reassure and get scared he's leaving etc...it plants those options in his brain. For your part of things you need to really really hone in on some new anxiety reducing skills. It would help him as much as yourself. The next time he comes to you spouting all these feelings he's having...you don't panic and cry and reassure your love. You listen calmly...ask him if there is anything you can do or anyone he might want to talk to...you don't try to solve it for him and you don't bring up your own fears or anything about anyone losing anyone. He might feel better just being heard! Just a thought.

Get a counselor. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Tutter bug {{{{{{Hugs}}}}}}}

Let him tell you what he needs to tell you when he needs to tell you... he is fragile now, allow him this, he is telling you how he feels, this is a wonderful breakthrough, step back, let him tell you what he needs, and remain loving and caring and there for him...... he is allowing you to see the hurt he is feeling and that is so intimate and wonderful, it shows that he must still trust you a heck of a lot. Listen and really hear, take to heart the fact that he is still willing to seek further understanding.... you have the chance, now go and prove that you have the wherewithall to do this thing..... I believe you do...... Much hugs

If you REALLY want true intimacy within your marriage .... get used to the idea that the feelings and thoughts associated with intimacy are real ... not romantic.

Hubby has feelings and THANK GOD he is expressing those feelings to YOU Tutter .... he feels like he needs to share his guts with YOU.

Do you only want him to share goodie-goodie warm + fuzzy emotions .... because everytime he shows you how raw and sore he feels it makes you feel bad??? Then who is he supposed to share those feelings with if not you?

This IS marriage. This IS intimacy. This IS lasting love.

He hurts because he loves. You hurt because you love.

It hurts. It feels rough at times. It feels bad enough to make us squirm. It tears our heart out and scrambles our brains.

How did you think love was supposed to be? Sweet and pretty? It is NOT sweet and pretty .... it is everything that YOU are. Good bad + wonderful awful +exciting boring .... everything that you are capable of .... everything that your H is capable of .... it is every bit of him. His hurt as much as his laughter. Love his hurt without getting in the way of him expressing it.

This is a key to your future.

Embrace these problems. They are a part of your love for each other. DO NOT RUN FROM LIFE !!!!!!

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

tutter,

I agree with all of the advice you have gotten. I would ask you to do one thing. Listen to your H, that above all else will help him. As others have pointed out, he opened up, told you how he feels, his weaknesses, his struggles, and that he loved you dearly.

Then you stated </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Thanks SC, it's just that some of the things he said hurt so. Like being alone and trying for so long with no answer from me, etc. It puts me in a mode to win his heart and I tend to be defensive. .</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is the one hurt Tutter, he is the one struggling with self-esteem issues and he even states that they stem from his growing up as much as your affair. Yet, you are hurt. You are the one posting how down you get. Tutter, you are the one that had the affair, he has been faithful. Trust him when he says he loves you. I know in some way you don't understand how he could, that is normal. But, you must understand he is much more confused about himself and his place in life than you are. His young son is his only comfort.

Hope, stated it well. He needs help to regain his balance. He sounds very depressed. You do as well. This isn't about you. Your actions trigger this, but it is HIS issues we are talking about.

Tutter I know you heart is in the right place, but you must understand HE needs help, not his love for you. That is clearly still there.

My guess is that he really really relied on you because of his self-esteem issues, just as he is doing with your S. When you had the affair you told apart his safe nest. He needs to find safety within himself. Just as you need to understand that every thing he feels is not about you.

Listen to the folks that have posted ahead of me. They have great advice.

hang in there Tutter. This isn't about your marriage failing right now. It is about him feeling like he failed.

God Bless,

JL

Hope, Lyndy, Pepper & JL - Thank you for your replies. I tried to pick up on much of this yesterday in posts and I desperately tried to apply them. I don't know if you caught my late post of desperateness where I said I just want to quit. I don't want to quit, but I needed to say it at the time.

I know the hurt is about him and not me. Understand though that my hurt is his hurt coming out in me. I hate that I made him feel that way. I long for that self confident man to come shing through to believe what is before him.

Depressed, yes, we both can be very depressed at times. Me, it's a lot of anxiety that I don't know how to control. Dr. won't give me anything except to tell me to eliminate what it is that's causing it - easier said than done. I've gotten my hands on some valume (I know it could be bad, but I am very careful about use, but it does help a lot at times.)

Anyhow, our phone conversation at the end of the work day ended abruptly and he was very angry and I have to admit I was too. He told me to just "back off" and that I was pushing him away. I think that sort of falls into my trying too hard.

Ok, so we met to get my son fitted for his tux and I just let the whole negativness behind. It went quite well. We talked last night and he talked a lot about his feelings and fears. I tried to listen mostly and let him know it's ok to feel this way and that I am here to help him through it and I reassured him that I'm not going to run off into anothers arms or leave or anthing like that. He said his fear is "sharing me". I told him I would never do that again, etc. All the reassurance in calm tone.

He talked about his pain and the feeling and I did cry because the thought of me making him feel that way for so long was overwhelming. We both cried and held eachother and that was pretty much the end of it last night. We cuddled very contently in eachothers arms and had a rather intimate evening.

No arguing and that's good. I think it's like someone posted to me (sorry, don't remember who) that I just need to listen more and to not push so much.

Anyhow, I am thinking about the counseling. DH said that the past year has been about me and getting me straightened out so he wouldn't have to fear so much my running off to someone else while trying to deal with him. Now, it's sort of his turn and he is confused and not sure what he wants. However, not 5 mins. earlier he agreed to commit to this no matter how hard it gets as I offered him the same unconditional commitment.

I guess all in all last night was pretty good. Thank you all so much for your help. I'm a bit uneasy today, but trying to stay cool and make the best of the day and remember not to push.

Oh, DH also said he just wishes I'd give him his space. I asked how much space and how do I give him that. He said he didn't know so I asked then how am I supposed to do that. He said he's a different many from when we got married and I'm not calling the shots all the time anymore that we are going to start playing by his rules. Ok, I can handle that because I know his rules take into consideration everyone and their thoughts and feelings.

Again, thank you, I really appreciate it.

Hey Tutter -
I'm glad my post on recovery was helpful. I read through this thread and here are my thoughts:

Back off as your husband says. You have been clear to him of your remorse and committment to him and of your love - he knows that. As he says the past year has been about getting you together - now he's going through his time. Accept the ups and downs - don't push. You've been given this advice before.

Listen, listen, listen and validate his feelings. They ARE valid even though they may not be what you want to hear. The last thing he needs is for YOU to get teary and upset, because he will not feel safe exposing his true feelings to you ever if all he gets are your tears and your needs of reassurance! Vent HERE for now!

So, "suck it up Princess" (and I say that in fun and with warmth) and get a little tougher with yourself. You've been given great advice here - read through all these responses again.

Just know that the lightning bolt moment for my H came after a dinner together where I was just asking him a lot of questions with regard to OW, the recent contact, the chronology of events - I was mostly calm, but finally asked him what he was hanging on to? I guess he thought about that and really didn't know and was then prepared to step forward and then the moment of "Omigosh - I really do love my wife and I'm going to lose her" happened. He may have sensed that I was reaching my limit and my love bank would start major depletion soon - I didn't intend that, but maybe that was the message I was giving.

I believe you and your H will be fine and that you will recover but just know that your marriage has been forever changed and your affair is part of your history together as a couple. That's a fact. You can choose to move forward and grow from this or to stay stagnant and wallow.

Listen, assure, validate, love, be honest, be fair, learn to accept the things you don't even understand. Your H may not be able to explain everything and from time to time, when he's confused, unsure etc, he may just need a hug.

Hope I've helped!

Just bumping up for Tutter to see!

Alberta,

Possible to expand on that "lightning bolt moment"? It's something we all desire.

Yank - wish I could really expand on it. I asked my H what really made him realize his feelings etc etc and he said he didn't really know - it just hit him. I suspect all the events, info, my questions just all added up - cumulative really.

I have been told that when someone "get's it" about something, anything, has that "ah -ha" moment, - what is actually physically happening is that a billionth of a volt goes off in the brain.
Hmmmm....