Hi SOW,
Well, I have to say I agree with Pepperband and the others who say you should just quit trying to be friends with MM's BS. You are not her friend, she will never see you as a friend, you are not going to win her over by using the kids as pawns in your own way either.

If she says the kids need something, I don't believe she said it to give a hint to YOU to go out and take it upon yourself to buy it. It's nice that you are a good listener, but yeah, you should probably leave it up to the MM to buy for his own kids--IF he even wants to. He/you guys are paying CS out of the joint account, so perhaps the W should buy the shoes and clothes for the kids with THAT money. You know?

To me, it sounds like YOU are also using the kids as pawns to make a good impression on their mother. How would a baby know the difference? What would the clothes--new or old matter to a little baby anyway??? But it's not about the baby's perspective.

Imagine if the MM didn't have any kids with his W... BUT, she still was in contact with him about certain other bills or obligations they shared. Would you be trying to buy things for her or take care of her obligations? EVEN tho you did what you did out of kindness and caring, it is not received as such and you are wasting your time & money.

I think you should be polite and loving toward the kids when they are in your home, as you probably are, but I think you should try to disconnect yourself from anything to do with their mother. She doesn't accept you being in her kids' lives, and sounds like she never will. You got what you wanted--the MM living with you--so leave his kids and their mom alone as much as possible and keep your opinions about her and her kids to yourself.

It DOES matter that you picked out items for her kids and writing checks from your joint account. It matters. Try to think of it like this:

Imagine if you had a (single) boyfriend and his ex-girlfriend still bought him shirts for his birthdays and you knew it. You also buy him shirts for his birthdays but he always wears the ones his ex-girlfriend buys and just tosses yours to the side. Even if you liked the shirt, you would hate the fact that his ex-girlfriend bought it and he liked it and chose it over yours. After all, she should not be buying him anything as far as you are concerned. There would just be an undercurrent of anger and irritation inside of you knowing that she is in the picture... Does that sort of explain to you how the W might be feeling? It's the only example I could come up with that might be meaningful to help you identify with the FEELING... The shirt is great, but she picked it out and you don't like her. You know?

I think your MM is wrong to have you all caught up in between his relationship with his family. HE's the one who needs to keep you out of it. I mostly blame him. Sounds like he kind of uses you as a pawn sometimes too, in order to cushion the pain he caused to his ex & kids. So what he was in the hospital, he could still write out the check, couldn't he?

Trying to one-up the BS is only going to cause you more strife down the road, AS IF you don't have enough strife in your life already... Unplugging your phone on a regular basis to avoid the strife, too? What a way to live!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

<small>[ August 09, 2002, 04:16 AM: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</small>

From SOW22MM:

"Just a question for the BS. I know you can not answer for his W per se, but when does one begin to set aside the anger at OW."

Well it has been over a year for me, and I still cannot feel ANYTHING at all for the OW but anger. Why? Because she contributed to the demise of my marriage, pure and simple. This doesn't mean I don't acknowledge the part I played in my marriage, but being in our circle of friends she KNEW we were having difficulties and went for him. The fact that I will have to put up with her being in the company of my children sickens me beyond belief.

Having said that, I have not and will not be playing games with my kids or my stbx. Or her for that matter. I have kept my head high this far and I will not lose it at this point. The children have been through enough mind games with stbx alone to last a lifetime. That you three ADULTS are doing this to the children involved just makes me so mad.

All of you (yes you too, SOW22MM) need to stand aside from your own wants and needs for just a second and look what you are doing to the kids. You are so busy trying to hurt each other you forget who is really important in this mess.

If you really care what everbody thinks in this situation, stand aside and let your MM deal with his wife and his children. He is the parent, not you and you never will be. Do not ever think you can replace their mother just because you are with their dad. It cannot be done.

When you post your situation on MB, you have to be willing to read what others think... even if you don't agree with it!

I do feel bad for the OW, but she HAS to realize that she is not the step-mother here. This is not just a case of a jealous W... Maybe she is playing games, who knows? We are only getting half the story here.

I am a mother, and as a mother I would NEVER let my children be used as pawns, but I would also never let my children hang out with their father and another woman (luckily this is not the case).

I respect your frustration, but please know that everyone here just wants to try shedding light on what the situation appears to be... as we can only guess.

I hope things work out for you SOW22MM, I really do. But be prepared for a hard time. Sometimes the BS does not realize what they are doing (with their kids) because they are suffering through the MOST PAINFULL experience in their lives!!!

Being the BS HURTS! Give his ex a break... she deserves to be angry. Time heals all wounds.

Wishing you all the best.

-mc needs your help

Cali,
Thanks for the info - much appreciated. Took your advice and got a new name. Makes since since the old one no longer applies. I am now:
tewjtm = the end will justify the means. Hopefully people will find that less offensive.

pepper,
Thanks for the warm wishes. They may be needed in future dealings w/ his 2 children's mothers. However, his family is great. Recently went to his maternal family's 3-day reunion. They are down to earth and very nice people. His dad's family is frienly to me also. In fact, it was us that his father came to stay w/ after he healed from surgery - and it was MM and I that stayed w/ him for a few days when he firt got out of the hospital. I changed all his dressings and took him to the doctor's office for his follow up treatment.

MM has noteven been married 2 years so it is not like his family had formed bonds w/ the W. His father had never met her till he vame to stay w/ us. MM took him to see the baby one afternoon. Mom had met the W about3 times but had never went to visit his hometown.

yank,
YES, again I repeat I feel a moral obligation to ensure that my D has the best relationship she can muster w/ her father - regardless of his faults.

Nduli,
I beg to differ. I AM his girlfriend. We have leased a home TOGETHER. We have a joint banking account. We have been on more vacations in the last 6 months than he did the duration of their marriage. We get along. We are friends. I am the one that makes him go to the doctor to have checkups. He had cancer in the military. His loving WIFE never bothered in over a year to get him to a doctor. Yes, he is a grown man. However, some men need that extra prodding to visit the medical community.

The divorce is in he works. She is at odds w/ her own attorney. She stubbornly refuses to entertain the idea of visitation. However, I have complete fath in our Superior Court judge. In fact, I have known him for over 12 years. He is fair. He also believes in fathers' rights.

mc,
As far as any decent person not letting their young child(ren) hang out in an affair - she does the same thing. She now has a man living w/ her. Both she and he admitted it. Besides it is not like we run through the house naked. Yes, we had an EMR but we are still good people. And he is a good father. He also will make a GREAT step-dad. He already volunteers on my D's softball team as an asst coach. He takes up time w/ the kids. He attended the open house last night. He also walked my D to class this a.m. The teacher stated that the kids were eating breakfast. She convinced him to go w/ her and they ate breakfast together at the school cafeteria. A lot of these things he did last year before we were even living together. He went to a father/daughter tea at the school, he helped me chaperone a field trip, and he played Easter Bunny at the state park to a group of second graders. A lot of men won't even fo that for their natural born children.

Protection of the kids - not using them??? Yeah right! That's why she had his step-daughter call and ask could she go, then refused to let her go after we agreed.

just,
Thanks for the comic relief- much needed. I am glad you are able to set aside my status as OW and see that I am at least trying to minimize any additional pain. Yes we were wrong. However, we are doing our best to do the right thing for everyone.

finding,
I don't expect her to make anything easy. I would like her to be fair to him in regards to their daughter.

Rag,
I am only in one relationship - not plural. I don't "take" money from MM. We live together. We have acquired joint bills. The way I see it if a man can not contribute to the place we set up house in - then I don't need him. Why shouldn't he give me money, he lives here??? I am the one that cooks his meals, washes his clothes, takes him to the doctor, pampers and spoils him.

Nduli,
At the time I filled out and took the check MM was in hospital for some tests. How else wold she have gotten the money if not by me? She is the one that said she needed it ASAP. Believe me, the money did not spend any differently because I was the one that signed the check.

And where have I ever bad mouthed her? I never have. I challenge you to find it.

And yes she does live w/ the OM. Both sides in the D have stipulated that both are guilty of that.

Will get the rest when I return. tewjtm

.

<small>[ August 09, 2002, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: kam6318 ]</small>

.

<small>[ August 09, 2002, 11:10 AM: Message edited by: kam6318 ]</small>

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Ragamuffin:
<strong>
Ok, E, if I were to be a good MB'er, I'd advise her to back out of these relationships, take no more money from married men, quit allowing her children to witness co-parenting with a married man, struggle alone, find and heal herself, then make a vow to herself NOT GET INVOLVED WITH A MARRIED MAN AGAIN, EVER.

Walk the walk......</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong>[/QUOTE]Amen.

I don't agree with people on either side playing games with kids OR putting them in the midst of sleazy situations like this. Ugh.

<small>[ August 09, 2002, 11:10 AM: Message edited by: kam6318 ]</small>

I dont understand your being involved with MM... why dont you go to the OW board? I am not trying to be mean, but this relationship is obviously wrong, and maybe you need a bit of moral education? Perhaps have you considered your MM will do the same to you... btw... he left a woman at home with a small baby and all the demands of baby and abandoned family for funtime with you.. osunds like when it comes to work and real life committment.. MM is not too good.. would think it is alot about him and not all about her.. the woman who stays to care for their baby while he is off having a party. A good man would be home with wife and baby taking care of them at lesat financially... when w most needs it... after new baby... dont you know how hard it is to be a single mom?

sorry to hear you are participating in this moral dilemma... why dont you date someone single?

Honey <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

If you're his girlfriend why do you refer to yourself as OW and him as MM? If it's all kosher then those labels shouldn't apply, that you use them is sort of telling.

As for bad mouthing, I clearly remember previous posts of yours complaining about your MM's W. Don't really feel like digging them up but they're there.

Still, you need to stay away from his children and the handling of the D and his stbx w. It's not the place for you to be, you're just poking an already enraged person by doing so.

Also in regards to the sarcastic "loving wife" commment, never said she was loving, hell she may be a ***** and a half. However, that's a subjective judgement on your part and subject to a bunch of half truths coming from a WS. Hard to take your word at face value(or anyone's in the situation for that matter, emotional as it all is)and agree wholeheartedly that MM's w is a harpy, I mean, to you she probably is, she standing in your way. However, you put yourself in this situation knowingly, no fair playing innocent now and acting like you couldn't have expected it. Suck it up, lay low, stay out of stbx w's radar and hope that things don't get worse.

JTW, am I being judgemental? Perhaps but quite honestly I'm sick of the whole infidelity dance I keep seeing over and over. I went through it too, exh ran off with "soulmate" and almost two years later admits it was all and awful mistake and how could I have let you go and blah, blah, blah.. Think I feel happy or vindicated? Nope, more like a punch in the eye as if all that BS was for nothing. It happens over and over and over. I'm just tired of it. For the record I told him to take a flying leap.

People need to start being brave and getting out a relationships before going to new ones. It's the cowards way to leave a marriage by taking on an OP. Grow some balls and leave if you're not happy instead of betraying someone.

*whew* That was a vent...

<small>[ August 09, 2002, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: Nduli2 ]</small>

N
You go girl!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I agree with every single word that you said.

Max

JTW, am I being judgemental?

Nope.

You honestly expressed your opinion, gave her a suggestion of what she might do to ease the situation, and went on to explain why you felt that way.

I could have written the same few sentences about the soulmate crapola.

You didn't tell her to crawl in a hole, or tell her she was eternally caught in the fires of hell.

I thought it was a great post.

I'm not trying to censor opinions or be the brain police here, just feeling a bit concerned about how we as fellow human beings treat one another.

My maternal Grandmother died when I was in 8th grade, and I can remember her always telling us to be good to each other.

How very important that is.

The drama teacher in high school used to tell us how many muscles it took to frown as opposed to smiling. Quite a difference.

I enjoy being lazy. Much easier to smile.

Be good to each other.

E

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tewjtm:
<strong> ..............MM has noteven been married 2 years so it is not like his family had formed bonds w/ the W. His father had never met her till he vame to stay w/ us. MM took him to see the baby one afternoon. Mom had met the W about3 times but had never went to visit his hometown.

.................
Nduli,
I beg to differ. I AM his girlfriend. We have leased a home TOGETHER. We have a joint banking account. We have been on more vacations in the last 6 months than he did the duration of their marriage. We get along. We are friends. I am the one that makes him go to the doctor to have checkups. He had cancer in the military. His loving WIFE never bothered in over a year to get him to a doctor. Yes, he is a grown man. However, some men need that extra prodding to visit the medical community.

...........

The divorce is in he works. She is at odds w/ her own attorney. She stubbornly refuses to entertain the idea of visitation. However, I have complete fath in our Superior Court judge. In fact, I have known him for over 12 years. He is fair. He also believes in fathers' rights.

tewjtm</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Tewjtm,

Well I read what you have done and still it stands. U are not family. Maybe you will be someday but right now that status does not belong to you no more than you have the right to write Mrs. MM on the hotel guest registery.

All involved, U, MM, BS/WS W, OM are all guilty of being a bad example to all the children that have to live with anyone of you.

Just because the W is living with an OM does not make your relationship any better. W steps in mud or jumps off a bridge. Are you going to find a bigger puddle or a double decker bridge to jump?

If your love with the MM is true, it will wait until you can rightfully step into a good relationship one that is not scarred with the A. However if you stay as you are and then get M, your M will forever show the trail of the A and the lingering doubt of unfaithfulness that existed due to lack of self control will always, always hang over your head. In fact every time you try to raise your head you will be reminded that you have a man because you and he schemed to steal what belonged to his family. Forever and ever.

Now you can not change the past but you can fix the future. Separate now and wait until he is legally free. Let him prove that he is truly deserving of being with a quality person. Otherwise you will become another casuality or trophy in his case of women.

Time will tell.

L.