You've been getting sound advice regarding EA's and how they effect Marriage for a couple months here, but nothing's changed for you.

On this thread you mentioned a preference for female friends and still cannot resist that type of contact. I'd suggest you start a new thread with a title like "possible SA needs advice from men who've been there". I am NOT saying you are a SA. But there are men here that are SA's that may be able to help you understand how destructive your actions are to yourself, your GF, your GF's H and your W. These are very supportive men with great insight into themselves and some of the most confusing issues for men in our culture.

A fresh perspective and other suggested readings may help you see this more clearly. After all you did come to MB. You keep coming to MB. You want help. My suggestion is just to get another perspective that may help.

I do appreciate all the responses, and I have been giving them a lot of thought. I have not seen the friend for a few days. And the shoulder rub I gave her was not sensual. I was not carassing her or rubbing her breasts. The kiss was when I left her and said goodnight.

Today I went to lunch wtih a co-worker and it was very open, very public. What is wrong with that? We had a good conversation and enjoyed each others company. She is married with young children. Happily married. Everything was above board. Where is the danger there? It seems that men and women in the workplace, espeicially in an office setting, do talk and go to lunch.

She thanked me in an email and said it was classy that I paid the bill. I am comparing apples and oranges with the situation with my friend. I know that is very different. But I am trying to stop that. But this other thing has no emotinoal or phyusical component at all.

Tempted...

I think that you are the guy that my Mama warned me about. You know the one...

The one that would want to touch me in inappropriate ways..(it doesn't have to be in the breast area for it to be a sensual rub ..fcol).

The one that would kiss me , giving me some type of message that meant he wanted more than was appropriate; omg, he could be married...(sound familiar?)

The one that would try and seduce me with words, possibly causing distance between my own husband and myself.... (therefore placing my own marriage in jeopardy).

Yep....you are the very predator that I was warned about.... the "player" that I was well versed in how to recognize.

I'm gonna have to give Mama a call...let her know that I discovered the name of that man that she warned me about when I was younger...

His name is TEMPTED!!!!

<small>[ August 21, 2002, 06:13 PM: Message edited by: committedandlovingit ]</small>

tempted:

I think the point here is that you don't know your boundaries. Giving this gal a shoulder rub may not seem sensual to you (or even her), but it's inappropriate. Period. You're married, and not to each other, and your spouses aren't aware of this "rubbing."

As for the lunch? Probably inappropriate, too. If you need to have lunch with women from work, why not invite your W along? Why not invite other coworkers along? No one-on-one that way.

You need to learn what reasonable boundaries to friendships with members of the opposite sex are.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tempted:
<strong>I was not carassing her or rubbing her breasts.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wait a minute.

I haven't spent a lot of time around here lately, so maybe I missed something.

This statement represents an accomplishment?

Something you're proud of?

Have you seen a therapist?

To My Knowledgable friends...
The thread changes and, the posts by this guy are basically the same! Different words, same questions and opinions. THIS GUY JUST DOESN'T GET IT! May I suggest you offer your valuable advice to those who will learn from it, those who will use the valuable tools you offer to them. Give your advice and opinions to those who actually are ready to 'hear' you. Posting here, right now, is a waste of time and energy.

Tempted...What if, JUST what if, your wife had a friendship with a man..in the same manner you do with your OW? Would you be...offended..upset...feel betrayed?

If the answer is YES, after real empathy on your part, then you KNOW what you are doing is wrong...If the answer is NO, then you are headed for disaster and should GET OUT of the marriage.

If you don't at all mind your W kissing another man or getting a non-sexual backrub or telling him she cares for him,then you don't love your W much and should let her go!!

My H was EXACTLY where you are now..he thought he could control it and kept putting himself in the SAME position you are. He felt soooo good with her. It's 2 yrs later..how do you think he feels about her NOW? It has been sheer HELL..you have an opportunity to circumvent the most horrible thing you will EVER do to your W, who loves you. I

If you miss this opportunity and have your affair, I PROMISE you will look back with shame. You CAN do the right thing.IF you don't, it IS YOUR CHOICE and accept the consequences...they are AWFUL!! FOR YOU, ALSO!!

I think that he may really be mmseekingadvice and he's just trying to upset us. Just a thought!

Dude,

I don't know where to begin, well, yes I do. Do you know God the Father through His Son Jesus Christ? If not, then the lasting change you so desperately know you need is outside of your reach. You do what you know you should not do and you do not do what you know you should do. Your affections and your desire to have friendships with other women, that energy should be focused on your relationship with your WIFE. Read Proverbs chapter 5 in a big way man, in fact, here it is for you:

Pro 5:1 My son, give attention to my wisdom, Incline your ear to my understanding;
Pro 5:2 That you may observe discretion And your lips may reserve knowledge.
Pro 5:3 For the lips of an adulteress drip honey And smoother than oil is her speech;
Pro 5:4 But in the end she is bitter as wormwood, Sharp as a two-edged sword.
Pro 5:5 Her feet go down to death, Her steps take hold of Sheol.
Pro 5:6 She does not ponder the path of life ; Her ways are unstable, she does not know it.
Pro 5:7 Now then, my sons, listen to me And do not depart from the words of my mouth.
Pro 5:8 Keep your way far from her And do not go near the door of her house,
Pro 5:9 Or you will give your vigor to others And your years to the cruel one;
Pro 5:10 And strangers will be filled with your strength And your hard-earned goods will go to the house of an alien;
Pro 5:11 And you groan at your final end, When your flesh and your body are consumed;
Pro 5:12 And you say, "How I have hated instruction ! And my heart spurned reproof !
Pro 5:13 "I have not listened to the voice of my teachers , Nor inclined my ear to my instructors !
Pro 5:14 "I was almost in utter ruin In the midst of the assembly and congregation."
Pro 5:15 Drink water from your own cistern And fresh water from your own well.
Pro 5:16 Should your springs be dispersed abroad, Streams of water in the streets ?
Pro 5:17 Let them be yours alone And not for strangers with you.
Pro 5:18 Let your fountain be blessed, And rejoice in the wife of your youth.
Pro 5:19 As a loving hind and a graceful doe, Let her breasts satisfy you at all times; Be exhilarated always with her love.
Pro 5:20 For why should you, my son, be exhilarated with an adulteress And embrace the bosom of a foreigner ?
Pro 5:21 For the ways of a man are before the eyes of the LORD, And He watches all his paths.
Pro 5:22 His own iniquities will capture the wicked, And he will be held with the cords of his sin .
Pro 5:23 He will die for lack of instruction, And in the greatness of his folly he will go astray.

If that doesn't convict you of the destructive path you are taking, nothing will. God is watching you, both a Holy God and a Loving God. Sooner or later your wife will find this out, and only then will you reap what you sow. Don't let it be that way, turn from sin now while you still can. There are always consequences for sin regardless of our standing with God. Remember, the sins of the father will be felt by three generations. I am now trying to scare you into obedience or anything along that line, although the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, I am merely trying to get you to wake up and realize that the easy road is never the right road. Yeah, it's easy to reach out to other women and feel good about doing so, it gives you a high. What is the status of your relationship with your wife emotionally, physically, spiritually?

It is my belief that as a married man, you never spend time alone with another woman in general, and you must apply the Policy of Joint Agreement to what it is that you are deciding to do here, and I can guarantee that your wife would not enthusiasticly agree to your wayward ways. Don't fall victim to the desires of the flesh here, turn to the spirit of God!

Tempted,

Do you have any male friends? If so, what do you get out of those friendships? What do you do together, talk about?

oops! nothing

<small>[ August 26, 2002, 09:02 AM: Message edited by: Replaced ]</small>

In response to a few of the questions:
1. I have some male friends, but the ones I am friendly with share more than most men. We talk about feelings, dreams, life, spirtuality. Not about sports and our jobs.

2.Someone asked what I "get" out of the friendship with this woman, and it is a question I have been thinking about long and hard over the weekend. Out of all the women I have known over the years, why this one strikes something in me makes no sense. I can not figure it out. I know many women through work and as I said I have been approached about starting an affair with three of them. One was very blatant, the other were more sublte. Not interested in the least. And yet with my friend, I am in love with her for reasons I could not even make clear.

3. Friendship with women in work is enjoyable, and I do maintain the boundaries. I went to lunch last week with a woman and it was out in public and we talked about varioius things. We are going to go again this week. She is married, happily, and just celebrated an anniversary. so i dont see any danger in these kind of lunches

Tempted - Please believe me when I say that I have been exactly where you are and have had the same thoughts. The man I I fell for made me feel special. Nothing was outwardly wrong with my marriage, but he had an effect on me like no other male friend or colleague I'd ever known. So what's the harm in indulging a little, right?

Here's the harm: I've now broken my marriage vows, have guilt beyond belief, and I feel used and stupid. Now I have to continue to work with this man, which is proving to be harder than I ever imagined. And I could never tell my H, as it will devastate him.

Please, please - think of your wife. How would she feel to find out about these feelings and thoughts you have? Think of the life you have built with your wife. Are you willing to throw it away? Think of how this will affect her if she finds out. Are you comfortable putting her through the emotional turmoil of being a BS? Think about how this will affect you when it ends (because it will end and probably not comfortably or how you think it will right now.) Do you know how much it hurts to end even an EA? Think about how people will react if/when they find out about the imappropriateness of your "relationship." Does losing their respect bother you? Think of all the people that could be hurt as a result of this indulgence in fantasy land. Are you feelings for her more important that any of them?

Be stronger than I was and end it NOW. Please take it from one who knows...the few minutes of pleasure that this EA will give you is not worth the heartache and pain in the end. I didn't believe it when I was given this information and I'm now paying the price. Please think about what I've said...and know that I'm not judging you - only trying to help you understand the ramifications behind selfish, thoughtless actions.

Thanks for the post neverthought. I am trying to end the EA, but I am doing it slowly. I know everyone advises to just go cold turkey. I did that a while ago, and fell into a funk. No contact, and then she paged me and I talked with her for 15 minutes and the cycle began again. But it was not as intense as it was before.

My saving grace is that I am the one doing all the stuff. I am the one leaving the messages and hugging her. She listens to the messages and does not tell me to stop hugging. That tells me that this is a one-sided EA and that in time it will wither up. It is not like she is leaving me voice mails everyday, like I do for her.

Well,bud,all I can say is that you refuse to benefit by anyone else's experience. You can't see the harm..doesn't mean there isn't any harm,just means YOU don't see it. B/C YOU are different and It won't happen to you and YOU can control it.

You sounds so much like my H..he had female friends during the entire 27 years we were M before his affair. The OW was just like all the rest,,,borderline EAs that he DID control. He got TRAPPED just like you.He was arrogant, just like you.And NOW he HATES what he has done..destroyed HIS own image of himself and broken my heart..FOR WHAT?? He is still home and can't even look himself in the mirror, 2 YEARS LATER. She is a bad memory of the worst mistake he ever made ion his life I'm sure YOU can't see it b/c YOU are different.

He WAS looking for something...it turned out to be IN FRONT OF HIM and he resisted.How fun is it to be flirtatious and in love with the same woman for all this time.!! He was...looking. Now that he has "found" me, I hold back. He misses the old me but he killed it.AGAIN, FOR WHAT!!>??

Open our eyes and admit you MAY be wrong..for the sake of the people in your home...and If for no other reason, FOR OUR OWN SAKE!! You won't like yourself when this is all said and done.

My H says he will never have another female friend again...he doesn't need it. I AM THE SAME ME I always was...it is HIM that is different.

And ANOTHER thing...LOL..sorry..But PUT your W in your posistion.
REALLY ask yourself how you would feel if she had a male friend like your female friend. If you don't care that she does and can't see the harm, WHY stay married? If you DO care, then you KNOW what the harm is!!

Sorry, It just makes me nuts..This is happening right before your eyes ,you are asking for help and then ignoring the help you asked for. LOL...You sound like my teenagers!!

the saving grace that you mentioned makes it worse..It's not a saving grace. YOU are the persuer. You can't even claim innocence later. But I bet you will be like all the other WSs and say SHE started it.

<small>[ August 27, 2002, 01:55 PM: Message edited by: Wounded2673 ]</small>

How dense headed can a person possibly be? Sorry to come off so rude here but.. geez... come on.... get real.

Okay, so you have more female friends then you have male friends. Fine and dandy. But it is OBVIOUS you have no clue what the boundries are so therefore you should not be friends with females, period.

Get a clue.... cant get one... here's one;

If you kiss or touch a female, she is no longer your FRIEND... of course your out for the friends with benefits thing but it doesnt work that way.

If you do ANYTHING with another female that you WOULD NOT DO in the presence of your wife, then you SHOULD NOT BE DOING IT!! In every situation with a female you should ask yourself, would I do this or say this in front of my wife, if the answer is no, then QUIT IT!!! Pretty basic concept for those with at least half a brain to comprihend it... you have yet to prove you have even half of one. We KNOW the one in the other head works quite well - OBVIOUSLY!

I feel so sorry for your wife... she deserves SOOOOOOOOOOOOO much better then you! You want to be deserving of her, then show it in your ACTIONS, for only then will you be truly worthy of her. If your going to continue to have these "friends" that you sneak away and kiss and fondle then at least be man enough to LEAVE your wife first!

My suggestion to you... first thing, get a clue, and then get a real life!

1. When your wife finds out, what are you going to do and what are you going to say to her?

2. You said OW's H is jealous because OW is emotionally close to you. What has he said or done about his wifes behavior?

3. When your wife asks you to immediately and permanantly end all forms of contact with OW, will you be willing to do that?

4. When OW's H calls you to confront you about your behavior with his wife, what are you going to do, and what are you going to say to him?

My former friend who turned into my H's lover, initially behaved as yours is. She let him do all of the talking of feelings, affection, etc. Believe me, that didn't last long. She ended up in my bed so YES it can happen. I'm sorry, but don't you think you're looking a bit desperate to profess this stuff to her?

What do you love about your WIFE? Why do you want to remain married to her or NOT?