Bad day today, WH sent me an email this morning saying he can't get OW out of his head and is afraid that we do not have enough passion to sustain a marriage. He said he does not want to play games, but wants to do what's right, wondered how i could ever trust him, and wonders if he could ever trust himself. He is afraid that history would repeat.

We have exchanged many emails today, he has agreed to counsel with Steve at 6AM on Friday morning. He seems to be slipping in and out of the fog. He said that this time he really wants to talk, he has said this before and I don't feel like we have really talked, he wants to do this tomorrow evening.

I told him that we can never have a recovery with him still having any contact with OW, he told me he has not seen her but she has been emailing to him and he has responded.

He hasn't started SAA yet, but has been reading the Coping with Infidelity Articles I printed out for him from this site, something that he can read without everyone knowing what he is reading when things get slow at work.

He told me that he does realize that we need to discover our emotional needs. He said that either you have passion or you don't, he told me the other day that was something the OW offered him.

He told me that he is sick of lying, he said he has been lying to the both of us this past 18 months and does not want to live a double life anymore.

He now says he is not committed to recovery, as he can not get OW out of his mind, and that it is not fair to me to start recovery with her in his head. I also told him that he needs to make a decision, he can't go back and forth.

He said he's scared that it would not work and the idea of us starting a family some day scares him, he's afraid it won't work and does not want to get kids involved. He told me that starting a family with her is less threatning, but told me that does not mean that he wants to.

so its confusing, he's in withdrawal big time, I hope Steve can get through to him, I hope he tells Steve the whole truth.

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<small>[ August 28, 2002, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: going_crazy ]</small>

GC,

Boy this sounds familar. My H babbled the same. He even said he could get comfortable living with OW if he stayed longer. I told him to stay, then he had to find the real reason to leave without me giving him one.

I told him I loved him but not enough to be his punching bag nor his blame post. He had to find the way to fix himself by himself. Help is available but he had to work with it. I also mentioned withdrawals. My H also conversed with the OW a lot and she was reeling him in.

So what should you do? Nothing. Tell him you love him but not enough to watch him destroy himself. Now why would he say that having a family with OW is less threatening than with his wife? Sounds like babble to me.

GC, this time is hard. I recommend you keep your counselor abreast of what is going on. I felt very much out of control for him and had to force myself to concentrate on myself and my child during that time. I had to say 'well dear, you are going to have to decide, can't help you anymore and not sure if I want to because I am already tired of your dumb games.'

I am sure you can do this in a more loving manner since your H is being honest with you. Eventually he got over it. Maybe trueheart's letter to the WS might be good for him to read now. Do you have it?

L.

GC -- This is EXACTLY what I heard less than three weeks ago. We are now back to "I am confused, but want to try". I am trying to be supportive, but also keeping my distance/keeping busy.

It is so hard. I have no sage words of wisdom, but wanted you to know I am experiencing this almost to the day and verbatim -- the A started 18 months ago and I lived through hell before d-day (it was actually somewhat of a relief to know there was an A going on and that I was not completely crazy).

You cannot do this for them and it is very hard and frustrating because it seems so inconsistent and unbelievable while it is happening. Detaching somewhat from it is the only way to keep your sanity. I let WH call me. When he does say things like I still have feelings for OW, I say I'm glad he's honest, sorry he still feels so torn, and reiterate that it will be difficult if not impossible for him to make up his mind while they are still in contact (without demanding that they stop contact).

I think it is a blessing that your WH has an appointment with Steve this week. I think that will help.

I hope others respond that have been through this and come out the other side like Orchid.

How long will that passion last, has he considered that? Did you guys have passion at the beginning of your relationship, when he was "courting" you? I seriously think some people become addicted to that feeling, but the thing is it usually doesn't stick around.

Does he even consider she could be laying it on thick to "land her man", and it could all change on him once he commits to her?

I have been dealing with the same thing in my mind. I still have lingering feelings, and they drive me crazy. I do realize that the passion could be fleeting. I had to do (and still do) a lot of thinking about MM's behaviour, and why it wouldn't last. I also think I became addicted to what I thought was passion.

I've narrowed it down to my codependency issues, and I am working on them. I started reading Codependent No More, and so much makes sense in there to me. Maybe your H is being codependent? Hard to say from what I know, but you would be able to tell better.

I'm so sorry you have to go thru this, you really deserve better... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Orchid, it gives me a little hope to know this is normal babble, I am just trying my best to deal with it without LBing, as much as I wanted to. I originally had the appt set up for myself with Steve on Friday, WH agreed to take my place, I'm going to call tomorrow to see if there are any openings before that for me.
No, I don't have trueheart's letter to the WS, is this a recent post?

Unsureheart:
thank you for your understanding, it is not the funnest thing in the world then to watch a spouse in withdrawal, it may be more painful than the affair itself. I ask for honesty, and he tells me he misses her, but then at one point he felt good about his decision. I am not sure that he realizes that he has to break free from her, totally, to get the clear picture, does he really think there could be a future there? I hope Steve can get through to him, I really do.

findingmywayback: It's interesting that you say that about WH being codependent. He has accused me of that from the very beginning, I don't even think he knows what it means, he even bought me the book "Codependent No mOre", I have read it, noticed that in ways I was, but have definitely improved myself in that aspect, Ihave since read Boundaries, did the seminar, I realize that my feelings are my feelings, and I do not have depend on someone for my own happiness.
From your way of thinking, how do you describe passion?

Here's what I think; since he's being honest and apparently fairly reasonable about things, thinking them through and all, here's what I suggest:

Tell him that you understand how he feels. That there is something called "withdrawl" and that is what he is experiencing and that there's a lot of helpful information about withdrawl in SAA, as well as with Steve. And that YOU will help him through it, when he understands it and IF he's willing to work with you on that.

As to the "passion". Many of us believe the craziest stuff; like love is unconditional, or love either IS or ISN'T and that is NOT true. Steve will clear up THAT little confusion in the FIRST call with him. And that if we work on it, start understanding and delivering each others' emotional needs, we CAN renew our love AND our passion. Again, let him know you, too, had these erroneous notions before, but you now understand them, and that if he's willing to give it a chance, explore, learn, re-think, he will also see them, and that you can ALSO help him with that.

He's close, GC, he's close and he's being HONEST!!!!! He's trying, he's battling, help him, give him a helping hand, and you might get help him out of this "hole" he feels he's in.

This DOES NOT mean give up your needs or boundaries, just that you can put them on "hold" for a bit, IF he's willing to let you and Steve help him get through it. Again, he cannot come home UNTIL he's where you need him, but you sure can help him get there.

MHO, of course, and I'd welcome dissenting opinions from the "masters", or anyone els, for that matter. I think they'd be valuable for GC.

Big hug!!!

GC, I am very sorry that you are in this situation.. I can only tell you what worked for me, hopefully Steve can give you both guidance.

In order to keep my sanity after my FWS left, came back, left, came back, and then left again was to distance myself and my children from this. The modified Plan B worked for me, I was prepared to move on, althought I didn't want to, I tried every day to work on myself and move my life forward with or without her. Sometimes you have to let go in order to get them back.
In time, my FWS who had all of this "passion" with OM, came to terms with reality, passion does not last, it is something we all have in the begging on new relationships, it is not reality, soon or later he will realize this but you cannot continue to put yourself on his emotional rollercoaster. I think you need to get off the ride, eventually it will stop, but until then you need to protect yourself. You have done everything you can, enough is enough, you don't deserve this treatment. Many BS would not even want their WS back after doing this, you have done everything you can to save your marriage, mabye you should take a step back and see what happens in time. Stay strong,
Dave

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Spacecase:
<strong>Tell him that you understand how he feels. That there is something called "withdrawl" and that is what he is experiencing and that there's a lot of helpful information about withdrawl in SAA, as well as with Steve. And that YOU will help him through it, when he understands it and IF he's willing to work with you on that.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have told him that this is withdrawal, but for the person who is in withdrawal does not think that, that is probably the case for all WS's going through it. He's got the information, he promised to look at it more tonight before we talk tomorrow. I want to help him, but he has to let me, youre right, he has to be willing. But he can't work on it if he has any type of contact with OW, not for sure if he realizes the importance of that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Spacecase:
<strong>As to the "passion". Many of us believe the craziest stuff; like love is unconditional, or love either IS or ISN'T and that is NOT true. Steve will clear up THAT little confusion in the FIRST call with him. And that if we work on it, start understanding and delivering each others' emotional needs, we CAN renew our love AND our passion. Again, let him know you, too, had these erroneous notions before, but you now understand them, and that if he's willing to give it a chance, explore, learn, re-think, he will also see them, and that you can ALSO help him with that.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm confused by what he calls "passion", he said he will clear that up tomorrow, is it in bed, or is it those butterflys in your stomach. I hope you are right, I hope he tells Steve this and I hope Steve sets him straight and does not sugar coat anything. Does Steve sugar coat anything for the WS or does he tell it like it is in such a way that the WS does not hang up on them?? I think WH is afraid to try, he says that he knows we need to find out what our needs are but he doesn't think that we can do that, I think hes afraid to try, afraid he will lose everything.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Spacecase:
<strong>He's close, GC, he's close and he's being HONEST!!!!! He's trying, he's battling, help him, give him a helping hand, and you might get help him out of this "hole" he feels he's in.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, I hope he's been honest, and honesty is not easy, I have to look back on my own advice that I give out. HOnesty is a important need for mine, I cannot LB when I hear it, but it is so difficult and painful to hear how he has "passion" for someone else. Sometimes I wonder how I can help him, when he is hurting me so much.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Spacecase:
<strong>This DOES NOT mean give up your needs or boundaries, just that you can put them on "hold" for a bit, IF he's willing to let you and Steve help him get through it. Again, he cannot come home UNTIL he's where you need him, but you sure can help him get there.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are right, if he does decide to work on this marriage, I will not step down from my boundaries, I hope Steve can reemphasize the strong need for these boundaries.

Also Spacecase, do you think it would be better if I try to get in with Steve before WH so Steve will hear alot of the truth, maybe by reading emails from WH. Or try to get in after, I don't know how Steve is with confidentiality. How is Steve on calling for a quick 5min update after WH calls. I would be willing to pay for that 5 minutes, but dont want to pay for an entire session.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by davepr:
<strong>GC, I am very sorry that you are in this situation.. I can only tell you what worked for me, hopefully Steve can give you both guidance.

In order to keep my sanity after my FWS left, came back, left, came back, and then left again was to distance myself and my children from this. The modified Plan B worked for me, I was prepared to move on, althought I didn't want to, I tried every day to work on myself and move my life forward with or without her. Sometimes you have to let go in order to get them back.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not for sure what to do, I feel like I keep getting false positives, I thought it was for real, I'll have to see what Steve thinks, apparently this seems like typical WS withdrawal babble.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by davepr:
<strong>In time, my FWS who had all of this "passion" with OM, came to terms with reality, passion does not last, it is something we all have in the begging on new relationships, it is not reality, soon or later he will realize this but you cannot continue to put yourself on his emotional rollercoaster. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sometimes I wonder if OW feels threatened by me, that keeps her from LBing and doing anything he wants

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by davepr:
<strong>I think you need to get off the ride, eventually it will stop, but until then you need to protect yourself. You have done everything you can, enough is enough, you don't deserve this treatment. Many BS would not even want their WS back after doing this, you have done everything you can to save your marriage, mabye you should take a step back and see what happens in time. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not sure what to do, I just want the roller coaster to stop, I am tired of being tired, I am tired of being nice, I am tired of hurting, I just want it all to end <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I think its time for me to give up. I can't do this anymore, I'm on a verge of a nervous breakdown. I don't want to hear about his pain, I can't deal with my own <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

your H is normal, withdrawnal is very hard

it is hard on both the WS & the BS, all you can do is be there for him, that is what he needs

talk to Steve

and there has to be no contact but Steve might be the better person to point that out

Steve will help you get a plan

Recovery is a long road, but the end result from what I hear is well worth the effort.

GC,

I am sending this post to call out Red Hat. His sig line contains Trueheart's letter to the WS. I have a personal interest in that letter because Trueheart wrote it last year at my request (in a desparate attempt to reach the WS' mind - dumb quest - in the fog their mind is mush). However the letter is a keepsake. It has helped many.

Trueheart is an Xws and really helped me understand what a ws goes through and then helps the WS (if they are willing to listen) to see where they are vs where they need to be.

Usually when I post Redhat's name, he shows up. I will try it today and if he doesn't I'll ring him up tomorrow.

take care,
L.

GC -- I know you are down. I have those days too. Some days you want to keep trying and other days you just do not know how you will be able to do this another minute. You have come far and you must be a very strong woman to have come this far.

Can you focus on something else tonight? Easier said than done I know. Well, I just cleaned the heck out of the bathroom in order to keep my mind off the fact that WH called at 5:30 to say his presentation went well and he was going out for beers with his office (probably including OW) and that he'd call a bit later. Well, it's a bit later and no call. At least I have a clean bathroom and I went for a HARD run. Is there something you can do tonight to just get away from thinking about all of this? Call a friend? Paint your toenails? Clean out your refigerator? Find somebody new to post to here that might need your help?

We're here with you. Stay strong. Just making it this far is an amazing feat.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by sing:
<strong>your H is normal, withdrawnal is very hard

it is hard on both the WS & the BS, all you can do is be there for him, that is what he needs

talk to Steve

and there has to be no contact but Steve might be the better person to point that out

Steve will help you get a plan

Recovery is a long road, but the end result from what I hear is well worth the effort.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sing: AT 8am tomorrow, MB is going to get a desperate call from me to get in ASAP. I have read SAA, especially the recovery part over, and over, I thought I had prepared myself, but I haven't. The truth hurts, and its killing me. It is so hard to be there for someone else when I'm in pain because of that person. I just keep praying for strength, that what brings you down only makes you stronger. I hope Steve can give me a plan, I hope he can get through to him, I can't cut through the fog without LBing.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>GC,

I am sending this post to call out Red Hat. His sig line contains Trueheart's letter to the WS. I have a personal interest in that letter because Trueheart wrote it last year at my request (in a desparate attempt to reach the WS' mind - dumb quest - in the fog their mind is mush). However the letter is a keepsake. It has helped many.

Trueheart is an Xws and really helped me understand what a ws goes through and then helps the WS (if they are willing to listen) to see where they are vs where they need to be.

Usually when I post Redhat's name, he shows up. I will try it today and if he doesn't I'll ring him up tomorrow.

take care,
L.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">thank you so much, Orchid, for your kindness and your help, I don't know if you know how much it means for us BS's to have someone like you, posting here everyday, that throughly understands what we are going through, and has overcome it. From the bottom of my heart, thank you ((((Orchid)))). I will go search for that letter after posting to see if I can find it. Did anyone actually send this letter?
I did read the very long post, Diary of a Madman, printed it out, and gave it to WH. It did help me understand a bit, and helped me to understand that when WH is in withdrawal he needs love and understanding.
Right now my husband cannot promise me no contact (he did before), because he does not know what he wants. If he keeps this up, he will never decide. We are supposed to talk tomorrow evening, a hope this is finally our heart to heart, he has not opened up very well in the past few "talks".
I just don't know if I can handle him telling me that him and OW had passion and we didn't. That hurts so bad.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by unsureheart:
<strong>GC -- I know you are down. I have those days too. Some days you want to keep trying and other days you just do not know how you will be able to do this another minute. You have come far and you must be a very strong woman to have come this far.

Can you focus on something else tonight? Easier said than done I know. Well, I just cleaned the heck out of the bathroom in order to keep my mind off the fact that WH called at 5:30 to say his presentation went well and he was going out for beers with his office (probably including OW) and that he'd call a bit later. Well, it's a bit later and no call. At least I have a clean bathroom and I went for a HARD run. Is there something you can do tonight to just get away from thinking about all of this? Call a friend? Paint your toenails? Clean out your refigerator? Find somebody new to post to here that might need your help?

We're here with you. Stay strong. Just making it this far is an amazing feat.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Unsureheart: thank you, it is so hard, isn't it? How are you doing? I looked early today to see if you had posted an update on your situation, didn't see one.
My night consisted of playing with my dogs, going to the grocery store to get some stuff to make lasagna for WH tomorrow evening, come home make the lasagna so it just needs to go in the oven, watch American Idol, drink microbrew Raspberry Wheat beer, and jump on here. Pretty boring, huh? I need to go and feel out my "needs" questionaires, I asked WH to do that and bring them with him, so I should probably do mine as well.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by going_crazy:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Spacecase:
[qb]Tell him that you understand how he feels. That there is something called "withdrawl" and that is what he is experiencing and that there's a lot of helpful information about withdrawl in SAA, as well as with Steve. And that YOU will help him through it, when he understands it and IF he's willing to work with you on that.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have told him that this is withdrawal, but for the person who is in withdrawal does not think that, that is probably the case for all WS's going through it. He's got the information, he promised to look at it more tonight before we talk tomorrow. I want to help him, but he has to let me, youre right, he has to be willing. But he can't work on it if he has any type of contact with OW, not for sure if he realizes the importance of that.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">GC, you can't expect him to "get it" right away. Be patient, tell him to give himself time to learn , and that you will also give him that time to learn, and will help him in any way you can. The key is allowing him the latitude to "get there" without you getting impatient or expecting immediate understanding. You have waited a long time with nothing, wait a bit longer with him close to you, hold his hand on this road, and you might get him back the way YOU need to get him back.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Spacecase:
<strong>As to the "passion". Many of us believe the craziest stuff; like love is unconditional, or love either IS or ISN'T and that is NOT true. Steve will clear up THAT little confusion in the FIRST call with him. And that if we work on it, start understanding and delivering each others' emotional needs, we CAN renew our love AND our passion. Again, let him know you, too, had these erroneous notions before, but you now understand them, and that if he's willing to give it a chance, explore, learn, re-think, he will also see them, and that you can ALSO help him with that.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm confused by what he calls "passion", he said he will clear that up tomorrow, is it in bed, or is it those butterflys in your stomach. I hope you are right, I hope he tells Steve this and I hope Steve sets him straight and does not sugar coat anything. Does Steve sugar coat anything for the WS or does he tell it like it is in such a way that the WS does not hang up on them?? I think WH is afraid to try, he says that he knows we need to find out what our needs are but he doesn't think that we can do that, I think hes afraid to try, afraid he will lose everything.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I suspect is is both things, but who knows. The point is; IF you can "fall in love again", as you WILL do if you follow the Harley Plan, that "passion" will return. It's almost automatic.

Steve DOES NOT sugar-coat ANTHING FOR ANYONE! Don't fear that. He does take it slowly with the WS so they will not run from him. Look, if MY W stick by him after "trashing" 3 other C's, believe me, he knows how to handle reluctant, difficult, or stubborn WSs.

Reassure him; tell him to have a little faith in you, in what YOU believe in, in what you have learned. If he's willing to give it a chance, he, too will see it. Look, he's giving this a chance, and he's being pretty honest...at least that's what I got from his words...he's revealing his soft underbelly; fears, insecurities, stuff he would NOT reveal if he did not trust you! If he were being dis-honest.

Things like finding out the needs are pretty easy compared to other things; like meeting them! He's close GC, reel him in...turn on the charm!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Spacecase:
<strong>He's close, GC, he's close and he's being HONEST!!!!! He's trying, he's battling, help him, give him a helping hand, and you might get help him out of this "hole" he feels he's in.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, I hope he's been honest, and honesty is not easy, I have to look back on my own advice that I give out. HOnesty is a important need for mine, I cannot LB when I hear it, but it is so difficult and painful to hear how he has "passion" for someone else. Sometimes I wonder how I can help him, when he is hurting me so much.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are stronger GC. YOU have handled having him living with her! He's coming back, he wants to come back, he's begging to come back and crying out for help! Find a little more strength in your heart to understand him, and understand he is not there yet. Hold that pain in a bit longer and show him you love him even though he's hurting you because if you do, he will stop hurting you, he will beging to rebuild that passion FOR YOU! Remember the end result, think of that when he tells you about his passion for her...a passion YOU KNOW is not "real"...GC, you are blessed that he's being honest, you have no idea what I would give to get even a bit of that, and I didn't get ANY of that for a year! It's a blessing, GC...take it, help him, he can be yours again!
I know it hurts, GC, I know! But ask yourself; what hurts more, to have him here, with you, trying, or gone from you and living with her?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Spacecase:
<strong>This DOES NOT mean give up your needs or boundaries, just that you can put them on "hold" for a bit, IF he's willing to let you and Steve help him get through it. Again, he cannot come home UNTIL he's where you need him, but you sure can help him get there.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are right, if he does decide to work on this marriage, I will not step down from my boundaries, I hope Steve can reemphasize the strong need for these boundaries.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Steve will do it, but you have to do it also. Help him with counseling, help him with love and patience while he goes through this, dangle the carrot of "you" and "living with YOU" when he takes some steps...and if you help him take the steps that lead him to revelations he never imagined, he will be grateful to you and love you even more...because he will then realize the pain he was causing you, and that even so, you showed enough love and courage to help him get through it.
Once he gets to a certain point in the process, and you trust his honesty and his committment, THEN you invite him to come live with you again and continue the process. Not before. But YOU, darlin', are the carrot...and you know how to dangle it. I can't help you there, but you ladies know how to do that genetically! It's in your chromosomes! Just Do It!

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Also Spacecase, do you think it would be better if I try to get in with Steve before WH so Steve will hear alot of the truth, maybe by reading emails from WH. Or try to get in after, I don't know how Steve is with confidentiality. How is Steve on calling for a quick 5min update after WH calls. I would be willing to pay for that 5 minutes, but dont want to pay for an entire session. </strong> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I suggest you share the sessions. Steve will be VERY hard to get for "5 minutes" afterwards. Let him (or H) know you want to "share" the sessions, and Steve will call you at 45 minutes, or you can call him. That's what we've been doing.
What do you mean by confidentiality? Will he tell you what WH told him? No he won't, but he'll tell you what YOU need to know to do your part. And you can tell him your side, and he will confront WH with your side of things if it's warranted.

Honestly, I've ended up paying for additional sessions on a few occasions when things went too long with either one. I once had a 2 hour session! 1 Hr 45 Mins w/WW, 15 minutes w/Me! LOL!!!

<small>[ August 27, 2002, 10:48 PM: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</small>

Hi going crazy:

Gee, this sounds like a repeat of a conversation I had with my WH about 2 years ago....just as he was emerging out of the fog for brief periods of time...but you know what....he was out of the fog but his brain was still foggy...and in his honesty he laid some heavy stuff on me....stuff that was hard to deal with...just like your WH is laying on you.

Yes...he's worried about the passion...but that's the foundation of an affair, isn't it...very few are based on a genuine meeting of the minds (pardon me, you soulmates)..and most marriages pale in the face of that kind of passion. It's really just fog...and if things were really so great, he wouldn't even be considering whether to come back or not...would he?

Yes...he's being honest...this is the way he probably feels right now...but he won't feel that way forever. I heard the same things...and now I hear about how boring she was, what a real "b....h" she was...oh my, how time and perspective change....give your WH time and his will too. Hang in there.

Spacecase: I have no words to say to your post except thank you, I know I need to keep telling myself this is typical, I know this is typical, I have educated myself on it, and can pull myself up, brush myself off, and rise above it. It is so hard.
One day he wants us, the next he doesn't know. Sometimes I wonder what is more painful, him telling me he doesn't know because he still has feelings for OW, or that he wants a divorce and nothing to do with me. It's painful both ways.

I am going to try so hard to be loving, caring, and understanding, I hope to get all my crying out tonight, because I need to be strong, I hope this is finally the talk we really need to have.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by buffy:
<strong>Hi going crazy:

Gee, this sounds like a repeat of a conversation I had with my WH about 2 years ago....just as he was emerging out of the fog for brief periods of time...but you know what....he was out of the fog but his brain was still foggy...and in his honesty he laid some heavy stuff on me....stuff that was hard to deal with...just like your WH is laying on you.

Yes...he's worried about the passion...but that's the foundation of an affair, isn't it...very few are based on a genuine meeting of the minds (pardon me, you soulmates)..and most marriages pale in the face of that kind of passion. It's really just fog...and if things were really so great, he wouldn't even be considering whether to come back or not...would he?

Yes...he's being honest...this is the way he probably feels right now...but he won't feel that way forever. I heard the same things...and now I hear about how boring she was, what a real "b....h" she was...oh my, how time and perspective change....give your WH time and his will too. Hang in there.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Buffy: How did you handle it when he told you these things? How did you react? Does your husband ever say anything to you about how your reaction affected his ultimate decision to stay in the marriage?
I am so happy that you and your husband were able to work it out. Like I said before, I knew this was going to happen, SAA says it will probably happen, I just need to be strong to deal with it without LBing, but with love, a strong, trusting love. not a begging, whining love, which I gave up a while ago.

He has told you what he needs in the marriage - Passion. But you have missed it in the so called 'fog'. Create the passion he wants girl. Go out join a gym; start some activity where you meet people and you can come back and tell him some funny stories about; buy some (tastefully) sexy clothes; have some slow jazz music when he comes home ... Not in a overtly artificial way, but something subtle. He expects you to try to 'educate' him to 'work on the marriage'. Why not do a 180 and have some fun when he comes over next?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by going_crazy:
<strong>Spacecase: I have no words to say to your post except thank you, I know I need to keep telling myself this is typical, I know this is typical, I have educated myself on it, and can pull myself up, brush myself off, and rise above it. It is so hard.
One day he wants us, the next he doesn't know. Sometimes I wonder what is more painful, him telling me he doesn't know because he still has feelings for OW, or that he wants a divorce and nothing to do with me. It's painful both ways.

I am going to try so hard to be loving, caring, and understanding, I hope to get all my crying out tonight, because I need to be strong, I hope this is finally the talk we really need to have.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I understand your feelings GC, and I'm not asking you to ignore them, just that you try to be a little patient, start accepting that neither you nor he can heal overnight, nor with one or two conversations. You can't.

But if you start getting used to the idea that this is a process, that it takes time, and you start looking at the baby steps he's taking as positives, perhaps you can "live with" some of the pain long enough, from day to day, as you watch his progress, and see another positive that gives you enough "good" to live with the pain one more day, and so on...that way, it's easier on you, and you slowly reach your goal.

It's not easy, GC, I know it! I felt what you are feeling, I still feel it. I'm only suggesting that you try. And that you get used to the idea that one sit-down is NOT going to do it, take it one small step at a time, like a baby, give him one small bite at a time, and when he's done, you give him another. And look at those small bites in a positive light, which will help hold you together until the next bite, and so on, until he reaches the place where he's where you need him to be to come home...and then...well, we'll get to that later!

You have shown tremendous strength in holding out this long...you can do this!!!