ok, I guess that's a lie. I am being defensive.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I am just wondering if I'm misinterpreting Dr. harley's words that affairs occur because ENS are not being met. I KNOW I have not been perfect in my marriage. I know I have LB a number of times. But you know what? So has my WH. There have been times where I felt unloved, or missed affection, wasn't being listened to or taken seriously, etc. And yet, only one of us had an affair- him. Is it really realistic to always be meeting ALL of the spouses emotional needs, ALL the time? I would assume that many BS felt some of their ENS were not met at times in the marriage, and they did not cheat!

Is it possible for a WS to have been pretty content with their spouse, and still have an affair? our marriage had its ups and downs, like any marriage can expect! But it was never so low that he brought up divorce, not loving me, etc. I'd told him even before we married that if he ever felt unhappy with me in ANY way, or was missing something from me, to TELL me so we could talk. And had reminded him of this during the marriage, because his honesty was important to me. It just makes me feel guilty and mad at the same time- I didn't turn into a mean hag that complained about everything and criticized him. it was by far not a sexless, loveless marriage- I told him everyday I loved him. seriously. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
But I must've been doing something really wrong, and I don't know what it is.

Anyone else experienced this, or has thoughts on ENs (lack of) leading to affairs?

Libbie,

The A is a selfish act. Could be attributed to lack of ENs but basically a selfish act.

You are correct that the BS has just as much a right as the WS if you look at it from missing EN status. When you pull aside all the fog, you come down to the fact that the WS became the WS due to being selfish.

I mean where would you ever hear, "oh yea, I love my spouse sooo much that I am going to have an A." Many a WS like to blame the BS for the A and some are dumb enough to blame the BS for the A.

JMHO,
L.

Hello Libbie

I know that my A was wrong - there is nothing or no other way to get around that. I cannot and will not justify it to myself or anyone else.

However, both my H and I know that neither of us have been meeting each others ENs for some time - pretty hard really when you are living in separate countries and only seeing each other every 2 to 3 weeks. Why didn't he stray, and I did? If I knew the answer to that, I wouldn't be in such turmoil now, but this is something I'm working on with IC.

The only thing that I can think about is addictive behaviour and how some people have it or don't. Again, I am not trying to justify what I did, but in a previous post with Yellow Rose, it was interesting how as WSs we both identified in ourselves and the OM in both As a real sense of either "all or nothing" personality and an inherent sense of personal competitiveness. In YR's case her's was a much more dependent addiction.

This may or may not have something to do with it - it could just be that we are much weaker people with less regard for our poor BS. Or maybe we are all addicts of one type or another.

Whatever the reason Libbie, it is not your fault that your H had the A, as it is not the fault of my H. Sure, he wasn't there for me, but equally, I wasn't there for him, and he didn't hurt me beyond all belief. Perhaps, he and you are just better people.

Be strong and take care.
Lisa

I know we are not better people, Lisa! Don't think that.

I just wondered if it is possible to be a good spouse, to really be making an effort, and your WS still cheats. Because that's how I feel. I know I must've be doing something wrong in his eyes, but I certainly wasn't neglecting him. He was more important than my job, friends, everything.

Can that ever happen?

Sorry for this answer, but yes obviously, it can happen......

But again, it doesn't mean that you are a bad awful person and the A is justified. I'm sorry I don't know all of your story, but if you truly think that you were doing everything within your power to make a happy marriage, perhaps that was too much for your H - perhaps he didn't want you to be doing what you were?! How long have you been married? What is the situation?

I know that in my M, I always felt it was difficult for me to let my H in 100%, I always had to keep something back of myself - a sort of self protection issue. Maybe your H couldn't deal with your dedication and love and so he deliberately had to try and break it down - make you not care so much.

I don't know if any of this makes sense, but some people find it difficult to accept that another person can love them so wholeheartedly and completely. When my H told me that he had only ever loved me in his life recently (H was married previously and has 2 Ds), this really scared me because I thought it impossible that he could love me so much.

Well, this is probably all waffle, but the thing is Libbie, whatever the reason, you can't change what happened. You have to find your own way to deal with it and overcome it. I know, easier said than done, but don't beat yourself up because of your H's shortcomings. When my H says "Why do I feel it's all my fault" all I can do is reassure him that it certainly is not.

Libbie, stay strong, and try not to worry too much about what has happened (I know, silly thing to say!), but how you can move forward and make things better for both of you.

Lisa

Libbie -- This is just my opinion, but I think a WS CAN have an A, even when you are meeting EN's. I say this because my H had an A last year, and even though we were having a difficult time in our M, he told me every day that he loved me... I never refused him anything!!! Yet, he still went out and had an A!!! I felt the same way you do, because even though I was feeling neglected, it never even crossed my mind to seek affection from anyone else!!!

I know that his A was not my fault, and I am sure I somehow added things to the mix that let it happen, but HE made the choice!!! But guess what? My EN's were NOT being met... yet I did not stray...

I think that even when the BS does not meet their spouses EN's, it is not an excuse to cheat!! How about the WS letting the BS know how they feel, rather than going to someone else!!!

As I said... this is just my opinion! And obviously every situation is different!

Just know you are not alone...

-mcnyh

Dear Libbie--

Read this article... it will help put your mind at ease <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> :

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1175/n4_v31/20845729/p1/article.jhtml

Peace, ~Marie

I agree that the root of affairs is selfishness. My ENs also were not being met for quite a while, but I didn't really know enough to realize it. My H and I had a great sex life, and yet he chose to have sex with her. I know affairs aren't about sex, but he still did it and broke our vows. He was NOT there for me when my family members were sick, I had work problems, etc.

My marriage was always a priority. I may have made mistakes but NOTHING to justify what they did.

In counseling my H admitted that he's a selfish person. So even he realizes it now.

I could have just as easily looked elsewhere for the affection I was never getting, but I stayed put and honored my vows. Maybe some people expect too much from their partners?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">[/B]I mean where would you ever hear, "oh yea, I love my spouse sooo much that I am going to have an A." Many a WS like to blame the BS for the A and some are dumb enough to blame the BS for the A. [/B] </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid,

That HAS been said. In so many words my WW told that to me.

She told me that the A KEPT us together. She said that she was unhappy in the M, but loved me too much to leave me. So...she had the A in order to "make her happy", then she was satisfied and had no desire to leave after that.

But....then she "fell in love" with OM. She honestly said that she didn't anticipate that.

Talk about babble! She REALLY has herself convinced of that, too.

HCII

thanks for all the great responses. That was a really incredible article, Marie. Kind of shattered my thoughts on infidelity.

I felt guilty from the day he told me, because I believed if he had the affair, I must not have been holding my end in the marriage, so to speak. There are so many people who think the BS must have been hell on earth to live with, for the WS to have "resorted" to an affair. And it is not always true!

I KNOW that there have been many times when my Ens were not being met- and I did not cheat. Why do so many WS think "I had needs you weren't meeting" is a good reason?" I could easily have an affair and say the same thing to him.

I remember there was a period in our marriage where I was pretty down. I was upset about some things with my parents, and I know I was more short-tempered than usual. Less affectionate. It lasted a couple months. I told my husband I was sorry to be like this, and please be understanding, I was going through a bad time. But I will try to not snap at you. Of course I still did sometimes but he was really great about it! At a diff. time, he was depressed about his career. And he ALSO became less affectionate, more angry, etc. And I tried to be understanding and supportive.
The point I think is there are highs and lows in any marriage, and at some point one spouse will be down when the other is up. This is not a license for the down spouse to treat the up spouse like crap, but I think the up spouse needs to be extra understanding and supportive! And accept that they may not receive as many ENs during this period. And later, the roles will switch between spouses. This is called FOR BETTER OR FOR WORSE!!!!!!!! Of course if a spouse feels neglected for a LOOOONG time there's definitely a problem, but they need to say something. Honestly I think many spouses don't know that their partner is so restless or unhappy. And if they knew they would make an effort.

It also makes me REALLY mad when I think of how I asked my WS what was wrong, is he mad at me, what can I do, etc. and he was never clear and honest about what he wanted. I am sure I could improve in my marriage- I'm sure I could do some things differently to make him happier....but,

HOW CAN THEY BLAME US FOR NOT MEETING THEIR NEEDS IF WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE? WE ARE NOT MIND-READERS! ARGHHHHHHH!
(feel a little better, thanks for indulging my rant)

the more I read on this site and from other sources, the more I think labeling every affair a direct result of WS unmet needs is incorrect.

- sometimes a spouses ENs can be unattainable for the other spouse to meet. If spouse "a" is going through mid-life crisis and wants to feel they can attract others besides spouse "B", how the heck is spouse "B" going to meet this need? Or maybe a better example would be spouse "A" wants to feel young again, so spouse "B" tries to satisfy this need in various ways, but to no avail, because what spouse "A" really wants is to turn back the clock.

-Again, I think it just is too much pressure for a spouse to feel they must fulfill all partner's ENs, all the time. It can't be done (although I agree we should do our best and try).

- Honestly, and I could be wrong, I think in some cases the affair is really just about the WS, and is not a direct reflection on the marriage and the BS. What if a spouse is depressed, insecure?
Or bored in the marriage, and wants excitement, change? it may not matter what their partner does to help them with these feelings, if they are THAT set in them, and unreceptive to their partner's efforts, they may cheat anyway.

and finally, I think a WS must take at LOT of the responsibility for their unmet needs leading to their affair, IF they did not clearly and honestly state them to their partner! I know a spouse can't sit back, and expect all the problems to be brought to their attention. I know it is good to be intuitive to a spouse's needs, but we need HELP sometimes! It's a lot of pressure to feel you must always know what your spouse wants. Sometimes we think we are doing the right things and we aren't. If a spouse is not meeting their partner's needs, let them know this and give them the opportunity to try!

Does anyone disagree with these thoughts? I am not trying to excuse a BS, I know that no one is even near perfection in marriage.

I completely agree with Libbie6. I can honestly say that while I wasn't a "perfect" wife in our marriage, I was certainly willing to do whatever it took to make it work. But in my case, my husband continued to lie to me and really seek the help consistently and sincerely he needed to work on himself. Now, the OW is pregant and our marriage is over.

Unfortunately, there are WSs who simply have issues "within themselves", and no matter what the BS spouse does to or for him, he will still continue to have affairs.

IMHO, I believe there are some voids that only God can fill - a sense of wholeness and healing; and we all know that as spouses we cannot meet all of our spouse's needs 100% of the time. So, yes, meeting the EN of our spouses are important and vital to a healthy and vibrant marriage, but people still can make bad choices even in "favorable" marriage.

I think the beauty and union of marriage is finding peace with God first, which then in turn allows each person to be the "giver" in the marriage, not just the taker. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi all,

terrific article, Marie!!!
Why don't you post that under a special heading in GQII or Just found out, so that it could be bumped up to the top again and again.

Well, Libbie and you other BSs-don't you feel like me, that in this forum the needs of the BSs are not really met??? Not really means NOT AT ALL!That article FINALLY talked about "selfish" WSs and "traumatic" experience for BSs. (YES!) It was soo good to read somebody else's perspective. I am so sick of all this Plan A stuff-I can't tell you.My H decided to rebuild our life, so I never had to do it, but I am talking to other people who are living Plan A and -by God- they are miserable, with spouses who continue to abuse them and betray them.

Reading the books of Dr. Harley I was looking for the chapters on how to overcome this most traumatic experience in my life and what is written there: shut up, be nice, he'll come back and you'll be happy (yeah, right...).

I feel that this A was not my fault AT ALL and I do not want to hear another word suggesting that it was! My needs weren't met either, I had guys showing interest in me-did I flirt back or cheat-No WAY, because I remember what I promised in my wedding vows.

And what do you think about this simple explanation in Dr. Harley's books that women just don't like SF. I absolutely disagree with that!

Yes, let's start the BS's support group here. Where you are allowed to say-hey it wasn't my fault...

These posts have been really tricky for me to write- I am afraid I don't express myself well, I come off as extremely bitter and defensive and not willing to take any resposibility for my marriage whatsover. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
Honestly, that is not what I am trying to write at all- I just have so many conflicting feelings about this specific concept of unmet needs. And yes, it could be because I am having very bitter days about my situation. It's only been a little over 3 months. ick!
Anyway, I would like to say that I ABSOLUTELY know there must be improvements I can make in my marriage. It'd be pretty arrogant of me to assume I have done nothing wrong and need to change/work on nothing, it's all WS fault......
And also since I'm a newbie, I may misinterpret things, and if I do, ANYONE please let me know!

So the majority of affairs are a result of WS unmet needs. And that BS is responsible for creating the environment for WS to cheat. I understand that first part, but not necessarily the second. In many cases the WS will not say upfront what they need, or gives very conflicting answers, will not consider counseling, etc. What is a BS supposed to do then? How is BS entirely responsible for creating the atmosphere in that situation?

And while I get that affair= WS not getting needs met, what about the BS needs? It seems they are often overlooked, esp. with the statement that BS must take 1/2 responsibility of the condition of marriage that caused WS to cheat. I think it should be added that WS must take equal responsibility for BS unmet needs in this equation. And in most cases BS did not cheat, even with their needs being unmet.

I've read the Monogamy Myth, another book by Dr. Holly Hein (Title escapes me, sorry), a case study by infidelity expert Shirley Glass, and the article that Marie posted. They ALL say that it is not uncommon for an affair to have very little to do with the BS or the state of the marriage. It has everything to do with the WS and their own issues.

RE: the more I read on this site and from other sources, the more I think labeling every affair a direct result of WS unmet needs is incorrect.

I believe that somewhere, Dr. Harley says that affairs are not caused by unmet needs. They are caused by people not protecting their own vulnerability. Wish I could recall where that is written.

Everyone has unmet needs. No spouse can meet another’s needs all the time. And in many marriages both spouses stop even trying at some point. So why does one partner stray and not the other? Because one is better at protecting their vulnerability.

In assessing what needs were unmet that left a spouse vulnerable to the affair, it’s easy to point to the BS and say they did not do this or that. But many people become vulnerable for reasons that have nothing to do with their marriage. Their spouse could never have filled the missing need. Remember that Harley’s list of needs is only a suggestion. Even he says that people might want to add their own or edit it.

The flaw is in the assumption of what an unmet need is. Let me give some examples.

Some men (and yes some women too) have affairs almost as a sport. They form no attachment to the Owen. They seem to need this constant reassurance that they are attractive and loveable. No wife could meet this need of constant, hyper, reassurance.

A career woman looses her job after a huge battle at work. She has put years of hard work into her career. Suddenly someone comes along at the workplace that undermines her. The partners in her firm whom she thought were her best friends turn on her. She’s yesterday’s news. Now she’s at home, disillusioned and lost. Her husband cannot fill that void. She finds a lover who does.

When I married my current husband he proclaimed undying love to me. Unknown to me he had women on the side. Shoot he had a weekend fling with one of his Internet sluts the weekend after we got married. Yet he says he loved me and had no clue why he was doing this. After many hours of talking I believe we found the answer.

He has a history of being abandoned by significant people in his life. His father walked out when he was 13. He’s never seen his father since that day. His high school/college sweetheart wrote him a Dear John letter in Viet Nam calling off their pending marriage. His first wife let him less then a year after their marriage. He came home from military maneuvers one day to find her gone. He’s never heard from her or seen her since. He spent a year, with her father, searching for her. When he found her alive in California with her motorcycle, drugy boyfriend he just walked away without seeing her. When I met him he had just divorced his second wife. She left him and their children for an OM after a sting of affairs.

During the our dating, engagement and first 9 months of marriage he seemed like he’d weathered the ending of his second marriage quite well. I often wondered about that. He seemed so together. No like me… It took me 2-3 years after my divorce to be a human any man would want to be around. What I did not know is that he had taken all that pain and compartmentalized it. It existed only is this secret part of his life where he was acting it out. And this served a dual purpose. He was acting out his hurt and he was protecting himself. After all, everyone else had abandoned him. It was only a matter of time before I would. So he did not invest all of himself in me. And maybe, since I was going to leave him anyway this time he could control when I did it. All he had to do was to let me find out.

He was totally shocked when I found out and did not leave. I wanted to at first. I hated him and feared him when I found out. But we found the MB books and he started plan A’ing me.

There was no way I could have ever met his unmet needs at that time. They are not the kind of needs a wife can meet. There was something broken within himself. Only he could fix and fill those needs.

What we did was recognize his unmet needs, got him to a counselor and on medication for what was a very deep depression, and we put in place a mechanism to protect our marriage from future affairs.

IMHO it is the spouse who is in the most selfish place at any one particular time who will have the affair. According to my counselor most BS go on to have an affair of their own. So the selfish traits can jump from one spouse to the other depending on the situation.

I don’t know if this makes sense or not to anyone but me. Hope it does.

zorweb,
I am in awe... that response is so loving, so understanding, so STRONG, and so wise.

I believe what you are saying, because I almost had an A, and stopped all contact before even an EA started. (Thank God) What you have typed helps me in so many ways. Not to justify having a crush, but to illustrate why.

Thinking about it now, the to be OM in my case was an abusive, controlling, self-centered person. He also seemed very exciting. I love my H, so I actively transferred to a different worksite within 2 weeks, and basically my feelings died within a couple of days. (Which was wierd considering how strong I thought they were)

Anyway, my H is NOT abusive, however, 2 XBF and my mother were. Also, my father abandoned me at 2, and I've never met him. In some way, perhaps I just felt comfortable around this abusive person, and my people-pleasing, "you're in control, I'm nothing" part of my brain clicked on.

Luckily, intuitively I knew he was "bad", and ran.

Now, I'm very interested in never feeling that way again. I think your post has provided me with the answer. Like others, I had been looking at H, and not really finding any LB's....

Still, I'm wondering what "mechanism" to protect your marriage from future affairs that you have?

Please don't feel the need to answer if confidential, and thank you for sharing such a well thought, insightful post.
-bbs

I also think it isn't just about unmet needs.
My FWH suffered from 'situational' depression for a very long time. So I would have to say in my situation depression was the underlying problem and not realising it at the time, the rest just snowballed from that.
Like zorweb says......his needs were not the sort of needs I could meet, he had something broken inside of himself. Without him realising it or trying to fix it meant that most of my trying was a waste of time.
His A was a bandaid effect to his problems and ours.
If the OW had to live with what I had to live with there would have been no A. How easy is it to put your best foot forward on a part-time basis. There is no doubt that she also has problems of her own, but he never would have known.
Do they ever REALLY know each other ??
I don't think so, it isn't until you live with some-one that you really get to know them and the package that surrounds them. What a different ballgame that is trying to meet someone EN's 24/7.
Did I go off the subject ??? Sorry !!

Blueberryskies,

I’m glad my post made sense to you. It’s late, I’m tired but cannot sleep. Cannot shut my mind down from child issues. So I’m not even sure if what I’m type out here it coherent. Surprises me that it is. Thanks for the complement, you made my day.

As for it being confidential, don’t worry. It’s too late for me to get shy around here. I can hardly believe the things I’ve written on this site. It’s great to be anonymous.

I too have issues with picking controlling/abusive people in my life. At the end of my previous marriage I attended an abused spouse group. At the intake they asked me what I wanted to accomplish. I responded that I wanted to know why I was attracted to abusive people so that I could avoid it in the future. She told me that it is not that I am attracted to them. It’s that they pick me out because I did not have appropriate boundaries.

For example, about 2 months into dating my ex-h he started criticizing me. I remember the first time. I had lots of friend all over the country and in Europe from my stint in the Army. He made comments about my having too many friends. He did not like all the telephone calls and correspondence. Today I look back and do not believe that I allowed my self to feel like I was ‘bad’ for having friends and stopped corresponding with most of them. Later he criticized my hairstyle. I changed it. He criticized my clothing, saying I dressed to expensively and too stylishly. I toned down my dress. I had no boundaries. Yes he is a mean, controlling person. But I allowed him to control me. I had no boundaries that said, stop buddy you’re out of line.

I’ve come a long way since then. I’m horrified when I look back at what I allowed him to do to me. I take total responsibility for my not having boundaries. Today I work at keeping healthy boundaries. Saves a lot of heartache.

Now for the “mechanism", or plan, to protect our marriage from future affairs. I apologize, as this is long. I boiled it down to 7 things. That’s the short of it. I also wrote a lot about the particulars of how we pull it off. But don’t feel obligated to read the long part.

---Live by the MB concepts. Protection, care, radical honesty and time
---Make Radical Honesty and no privacy the cornerstones of your relationship
---Discuss how you are doing meeting each other’s EN’s and avoiding LB’s at least monthly
---Make is safe to talk to each other about anything.
---Never, ever be alone with a member of the opposite sex.
---Avoid non-business chat and email with members of the opposite sex.
---And love each other like crazy

Today we live by the MB concepts. They are not only a part of our marital relationship but we have extended them, with appropriate modifications to our dealings with our children. It has changed our family.

The rules of protect, care, honesty and time. Meeting each other’s needs and doing as little love busting as possible.

We of course did our emotional needs and personal history questionnaires.
We make sure we get our 15 hours a week together if at all possible.

Every two weeks we go over our EN/LB lists and discuss how we are doing and what else can be done. At this point, after 17 months, we don’t need the written forms anymore. It’s just second nature.

We subscribe to radical honesty and no privacy. That way neither of us can hide anything from the other. It prevents a secret life from developing.

Originally my H gave me the passwords to all of his computers (we are software engineers so we have a lot of computers stuff at home), email accounts, IM accounts, etc. This was done so that he could assure me that he was not having any further affairs. Later I realized that it has to be two ways. So as an act of faith I gave him the same info on my computer stuff. We also put keystroke-tracking software on all our computers. We cannot do anything on line that the other does not see.

Due to the nature of his affairs, we have both promised to avoid chatting and emailing. We now only chat/email with immediate family members and friends that we both approve of.

We gave each other permission to snoop, search, and listen in, whatever was necessary for the other to feel safe.

To most people this would seem stifling. But what we have found is that it is liberating. There is nothing either of us has to hide from the other.

It is safe in our relationship for either of us to bring up anything. Our agreement is that if one of us brings up something the other cannot love bust over it. We can have our hurt feelings, that’s ok. But it’s what we do with the hurt feelings that can become a love buster. And we have promised to help each other work through the issue and the feelings. Since d-day we have tested this dozens of times and proven that we can do it.

We have agreed that if either of us ever finds ourselves moving toward an affair it’s ok, actually essential, that we immediately tell the other. That way we can help each other avoid affairs. It is human nature to be attracted to people of the opposite sex. The problem is not the attraction, it’s putting it into action. An affair, as you found out, can be stopped easiest when the attraction first starts. Actually the attraction is a warning sign that must be paid attention to.

We have agreed to never/ever be alone in the company of a member of the opposite sex. This is how affairs often start, as innocent friendships. Dr. Harley has written a lot about it. Our society likes to think that it’s ok for opposite sex friendships. They are dangerous to marriages.

I’ll give you some examples of how we have made this work for us.

RADICAL HONESTY - I’ve gotten to the point where I run almost everything I do through my MB filter. If I’m out shopping and want to buy something that I know he would not approve, sometimes I think, aw I’ll just buy it and not let him see it. Then my MB filter pops up… that is a lie and the damage it will do is not worth it.

RADICAL HONEST and SAFETY - A few months after d-day I got a terrible urge to have an affair. It was the weirdest thing. I did not know anyone I wanted to have an affair with. But it was driving me nuts. There was something in my subconscious driving me… telling me that if I did it the playing field would be even and my pain would go away. Consciously I knew I was going nuts. When I could not shake it for several weeks, I finally told my husband (STL). I was careful to let him know that I had no prospects and that I knew it was crazy. It did hurt him a little, shocked him actually. But we worked through it. Now that I had him to talk to about it, the feelings eventually went away. Thank goodness.

RADICAL HONESTY & NEVER BE ALONE – STL’s ex wife started to pursue him last fall. She was sending him email asking him to meet her on his business trips to ‘discuss things’. When she was in town to visit their children she tried dropping in at our house while I was at work. When STL is not traveling he works at home. She also invited him out on dates. He told me about what she did. He showed me her emails. Since I have access to his email accounts he told me to respond to some of her emails. Typically she’s send him an email asking him about the kids and then asking when he was going to be in some city so she can meet him there. So he let me respond… I tell her that STL did not have Internet access where he was at so I was handling his mail. I’d answer her questions about the kids. Then I’d tell her that unfortunately STL would not be able to meet her, as he was not going to be in that city any time soon. She did not take the hints and eventually he had to tell her to back off. Now, when he does have to see her, he meets her in public places. If it’s in town I go with him. And he always tells me.

Radical Honesty & No Privacy… a while back an old boyfriend emailed me asking about my family and me. I hear from him often. He always asks to see me. I answered him back with just a hello we are all ok. Then I realized that STL might take it wrong if he saw the email. So I showed him the email and asked him what he wanted me to do. His response was that anything more then what had transpired as out of hand. So that was the end of that.

I could give you many more examples of how this has played out. While the affairs were devastating, I would never trade the growth our marriage has experienced do to the challenge thrown at us. We are so close now. We have weathered the storm and learned that we can handle anything if we do it together with love and honesty.

Listening to the news on the radio recently while driving in the car, my son reacted hysterically to the weather forecast:

"It'll be calm on the bay in the morning, so expect fog."

"HA HA HA HA." he laughed, "fog is caused by 'no wind'!!!"

Simply put, failing to meet ENs doesn't cause an affair, but meeting ENs can prevent one.

I agree with that..................all I'm trying to say is that sometimes the WS needs are not met, but it's NOT necessarily by a lack of trying by the BS. And I think that should make a difference!