Can any of the people in recovery from Plan A or B give insight to how it moved to recovery? Does the WS initiate the return or did it take the BS to start the recovery process?
Just wondering..........
There is so much pain on the site tonight, I thought we could all use a bit of hope.

Hey PB,

I think the WS always has to initiate the turn. This may happen during Plan A, or Plan B (or maybe neither).

In our case, I (BS) started Plan A'ing when FWS was DEEP in the fog. Continued this for a couple of months while FWS was still in EA. I think she began to realize that the changes I had made were permenant, and then the EA became PA, and the shock of discovery moved her to the place where she realized where she really was and what might happen.

I don't think the fog was gone all at once, but the foglights came on, and reality began to come through more clearly. At that point, she initiated her 2nd and more dedicated return. She made a clear cut break with OM, and recovery begain. Things did not REALLY get going though until she left the job where she still ran into him at times.

For a completely different viewpoint of how Plan B became necessary, check out some of SpaceCase's or check out some of Lor's postings. Every story is different!

I agree with Bill Uphill. The WS tends to be the one who initiates the recovery process if the BS is doing a plan A. Actually... I guess you could say that whoever is doing the plan A or B, it is the other spouse who initiates recovery (b/c the one in the 'plan' is already aiming for it).

I don't want to put a damper on your intentions for this thread pb511, but it should be noted that being in recovery is MUCH harder than being in plan A or B. The main difference is that there aren't as many emotions being flung around in the roller coaster loop de loops (IMO, b/c those emotions are based on the fear of the unknown regarding the A). And the fact that recovery involves BOTH spouses... not just one like in plans A & B.

On a lighter note.... H and I moved into recovery on the night I moved into plan B. I guess that was enough to 'start up those foglights' for him. It was also 2 or 3 weeks AFTER he told me that he wanted a D ---> and a D was his FINAL decision!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> (fogtalk, babble, etc).

And you're so right about things seeming so 'down' on the boards lately. We all come here for support when we're feeling down, but tend to forget to share the 'good news' too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

Karen

p.s. don't forget that there are those in 'recovery' who entered it on their own. They are better people for it too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I guess recovery can be thought of as a state of mind, not necessarily a state of M! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ September 03, 2002, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: Topie25 ]</small>

Dear Bill,
Thanks so much for your help. I kinda figured it was the BS that had to initiate a change...
I started thinking about this after I had a dream that I asked my WH to "just forget about the OW and come home." I'm sure this was just my deep subconscious feelings bubbling up.
To Topie- Thanks to you too. I'm always encouraged to hear of at least one WS breaking thru the fog.
No foglights in sight for my case yet. I've been seriously Plan Aing from a distance since I spoke with Steve H a couple of weeks ago. I'm happy to report that my WH has gone from totally avoiding any conversation with me to being able to talk about some nonR topics for a few minutes. At least it's a start! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

PB511,

IMHO, there are 2 types of recovery. Personal and marital. Personal is controlled by each person. Marital requires both (Bs/Ws). Recovery is achieved when both can shed their Bs/Ws titles and take the rightful H & W titles back. This is an earned thing.

Plan A and B help both personal and marital recovery. However, the marital recovery requires the support of the Ws with the goal of returning back to the H or W position.

So learn and use plan A & B as it was designed. To better the BS. Don't try to use those plans to 'fix the WS'. Square peg into round hole syndrome. Often backfires and in some cases causes false recoveries.

For me I learned the sooner I got strong enough to call their bluffs, the quicker I reached personal recovery. From that point, I went to plan B because I was strong enough to go on my own. Plan B actually relieved some of the internal stress about the A. H was out of the home and I no longer felt the need (as much) to know all about the A. I even got strong enough to tell him to go and get the D. See he wanted me to do it but I knew better. Why should I do his dirty work for him?

I became strong enough to throw his stuff back on him (reverse babble technique) and even allowed the OW to meet more of his needs. Even caused LB's between OW and WS from afar. Loved that one!!! LOL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

The point is that regardless of that outcome, my personal recovery was going to carry me through. I did have periods of depression during this time (even suicidal) but I also had embedded in my mind that I was on the road to recovery and was able to overcome those depressing thoughts.

JMHO,
L.

Dear orchid,
I'm so glad you posted here. Your insights are always so helpful.
Now nearly nine months post dday, I too am seeing some of those changes you described. I've stopped focusing on the details of the A and stopped the snooping and by letting this go, I'm starting to feel that the "letting go" part is the best thing for both me and my H.
He is still very deep in the fog. He told a mutual friend that he didn't understand why I was so angry he left!
I just keep hoping that he can begin to notice the changes that I have noticed and that we can turn this outofcontrol monster around!
With people like you guiding the way, it sure is a lot easier! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />