I have been showing extreme love and caring, lifestyle changes to have him love me again instead of her. She called Saturday morning at 7:00 a.m. and they talked for an hour and a half in front of me - he would tell her how much he missed her and he loved her, she called him a liar and a monster and how could he... he said, no, at the time, he really felt like his marriage was on the rocks and he was making plans to leave, that she is wonderful and blah blah blah, but that he needs to try to make it work with me. That he really can't talk or have any contact with her if he is going to make a sincere effort to make it work. She told him that she probably couldn't help but call him back. I told the both of them that they needed to consider this their closure, they have already said goodbye 5 times, and if he wants to or decides to continue an ongoing conversation with her then I can't feel as though he is ready to fully commit to salvaging and keeping our relationship and as much as I love him, he will not be able to do both, and he will have no contact with me until he no longer sees or talks to her.

So then Saturday night we go to friends for dinner, and Sunday he plays for a couple of hours at a friends house (he is a jazz musician), and the drive is an hour and a half away. During the drive up, it was complete silence, except for some forced jokes. The drive back, I told him that I loved him, that I cared so much for him, and although I know perfectly well how much he cares, loves and misses her, I have no idea what he is feeling towards me right now and I would really like to know how he is feeling - although I know he is confused and shut down, it's important for me to understand what he is thinking even if it's confused.

Then he tells me that he loves her, that she is all he thinks about. That she makes his heart pound, his knees get weak, and that he always wants to spend more and more time with her and it was like this from the first time he met her (8 months ago). He says with me, that even when we first met, he didn't feel this way. He says with us it's like a building crescendo, that it seems to get stronger and deeper, but it's not exciting. That he can't imagine life without me, and that he does love me, but he is not in love with me. That he feels terrible. That he wishes he could have both of us and everyone would be happy. That he loves me more, he thinks, and wants me for the long term. That he has an obligation to the home we have built, but that it will probably take a long time for him to get over her, and he may never.

I don't want to be with someone out of OBLIGATION; god, that hurt!! I didn't tell him that, but inside I just died a little bit hearing that. I want to make his heart pound and give him those feeling he has for her, but I can't - c'mon, we have lived together for 4 years!

I am working so hard on fulfilling his needs - I don't use my "patronizing" voice, I am not accusing or recriminating. I got my hair cut, I think it looks great, I am getting Lasiked, I have already lost 7 pounds, (she is really thin on meds for ADHD or something like that, and I am fluffy, I admit it), and she is like the opposite of everything I am - she is 5'7, 115, 26, unemployed singer. I am 5'2, 150, 39, employed housewife. Blech, I wouldn't want me either. But I am working on as much as I can.

We have counseling this Wednesday.

Have you guys heard those lines before? How do you deal with them? Am I supposed to listen understandingly to him proclaim his love/lust for her and longing to have her in his life? Is that Plan A? How can I listen and what do you guys say?

Everything I know about this girl is destructive for him. I have snooped around for information and no-one likes her. All the bandwives think she is a two bit wannabe singer with some severe emotional problems, yet somehow she has captured my man's heart with her severe manic-depressiveness. Argh!! Help!

KS,
Your H, as a wayward spouse, hasn't found any new things to say. This is what people having affairs who do care about their spouses say. Love vs in love.

At this point, any reason he finds to stay with you, even obligation is better than no reason. If you stay together, and he stops the affair, he'll have better reasons later. And, his descripton of his love for you, building and becoming deeper is how love works. That first rush is lust and fantasy...working with, loving the reality of a person and a relationship is always a bit different than the first "discovery" of a person.

You sound like you are being extremely patient and loving. I had a hard time reading some of the things your H said, and you listened to calmly. Its good that he is talking to you, that he's being honest, but if his words of love about her hurt you, you can ask him to stop, that it is too painful for you to hear right now.

It sounds like he has decided on no contact with her, while he tries to make it work with you, is that right? That the Saturday conversation was closure, even though she didn't agree? 1 1/2 hours is a bit long for a no contact call, that's one of the reasons it is recommended to do it in a letter. Short, succinct, done.

Right now, your H wants you both. He can't reasonably do that. And, if he continues he is what we refer to here as a cakeperson, from the old saying wanting your cake and eating it too.

My H spent nearly 2 years as a cakeperson, but he acted differently than your H, my H denied the ongoing affair to me, told her he was just spending time with me for the kids. I was confused a lot by his behavior with all his denials, but I was in denial myself about knowing he was lying and never exactly where he was supposed to be.

If your H's affair is to end, he'll have to be strong about ending contact with her, including hanging up if she calls, brushing her off if she is in person. Otherwise, he's in big danger of continuing being a cakeperson.

I'm really glad the 2 of you are going to a counselor. I hope the C is one who supports marriage, not everybody finds a good counselor on their first try, so don't get discouraged if this one isn't it for you.

Do stick with Plan A for now, no lovebusting--leave that to the OW. Let her be the crazy one. You said in your other post that he had already thought she wasn't someone for the long-term, he was seeing some flaws in her.

You don't have to be more like her, be the woman your H married, be you, the best you that you can manage to be.

I am doing that - yeah, it seemed like halfway through the conversation with her Saturday morning he kind of lost his temper with her and said, did you just call me up to call me names? You are putting words in my mouth and telling me how I feel! I am not a monster, and I am not a liar, this is how I felt, and then it went all soft, how can I prove it to you? I am not sure what he wants, and neither does he. He would love to have her AND have me, but that isn't going to happen and he knows it. However, I do have his online cell phone bills, and I plan on keeping a diary of our conversations during the next 30 days and when we talk each day and if he tells me he loves me, etc etc, and then comparing them with his phone bills in a month. I have this big old scenario in my mind, mainly because I don't trust him - I want to gather together all the cell phone bills since D Day, when he promised he wouldn't talk to her, and then I want to have him tell me in the counselor's office that he hasn't spoken to her, THEN I want to bring out the phone bills, and present them to him. I mean, of course, if he has spoken to her. He isn't going to go use a pay phone! If he talks to her, it will be easy to see. So, that's my big old plan at the moment.

Staying with me out of obligation, sucks though. And I can't believe that he would actually do that. If you are so much in love with someone that they make your mouth dry and your heart pound, why trade that in for boring old me, who simply makes him think warm thoughts?? I feel very insecure right now. I can see why this puts bestrayed people in ripe areas for their OWN affair - I just want someone to tell me how much they love me and how pretty I am, and how I make THEIR heart pitter patter.

So, men that have been through this "I love another woman" phase might actually come to their senses and realize that what they feel isn't love? That what they have with their wives is love? Can that happen?

Yep... it can happen.

D-day... I got the "I want to be w/ her. I care for you, but am not 'in-love' with you. I have NEVER been 'in-love' with you."

However, we continued to be intimate 2-4 X per week...???

VERY ANGRY w/ me and the world for the next 6-8 months...

When he 'decided' to stay... it was for the kids... to be a CO-PARENT.

He started to say "I love you" again this past June... 14 months after d-day (4/01)... I NEVER thought he would say those words again. so, yes, it can happen... but it was a very LONG road...

My advice is to LEAVE HIM ALONE... no relationship talks... no talks about OW or his A...

Take care of yourself. Focus on YOU. Make changes that make you feel good.

"Date" him, if you will. "Court" him. I was able to get H to do things w/ me that we used to do in the courtship days...

I had LOTS of bad days and some LB days... but MOSTLY I was able to do a very good plan A.

Good luck,
Cali

So, men that have been through this "I love another woman" phase might actually come to their senses and realize that what they feel isn't love? That what they have with their wives is love? Can that happen?

KS, I'll let my H's first post answer you, his own words. This was after his 18 mo PA, our 7th separation, 3 months before we reconciled, right before I served him divorce papers, but I had begun dating (a real MB no no, and something I deeply regret, even though I believed our marriage was over, so don't entertain that it was a good thing!)

I betrayed my wife

<small>[ September 10, 2002, 10:25 AM: Message edited by: Lor (Lor) ]</small>