I wanted to start this a new thread.

Ever since that dreadful talk we had almost 4 weeks ago where he made all of his "points" on why he does not want to work on the marriage, followed by him saying he wanted a divorce ASAP, I have not seen my WH. We have had very little contact via email and that is it.

He emailed me today, told me that we needed to talk later this week. I asked him about what, he said "the whole shubang". He never would tell me what he wanted to talk about. All he would tell me was to worry about it on Wednesday, that was it. I told him that I had too many other things in my life to worry about (job cutbacks getting ready to occur in our office).

He again avoided my question, and went on to tell me that I will be fine, too valuable for the company, blah, blah.

I called him later via cell phone because he told me that he was going to get his mail and I asked him to look at something that needed to be fixed in the bathroom.

I then (probably LB'd here), asked him what he wanted to talk about. I told him that if it was going to be similiar to our last "talk" that I don't want to hear it again, and would rather not meet with him.

WH told me to expect the worst. I then again told him, that I don't want to talk to him. He then told me that he just does not want me to get my hopes up. He then told me he would talk to me later, haven't talked to him since.

Also, I found proof this weekend that he has been calling OW quite a bit, and has been visiting her. It's kinda funny because our house is on the way to her house, he could have easily stopped by to get his mail (he hadn't picked it up for 12 days) on his way to see her. It's almost like he wants me to think he is still taking time alone and not seeing her.

So, that is probably what he will say, he will probably say that he has been taking time to himself to be away from both of us and realizes he wants OW. But I know better, if he says that, how should I respond.

Also, I do know that he has met at least twice with his IC (his mother is paying for his therapy, she wants us to divorce).

Thoughts??
Going_Crazy, and living it!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ September 25, 2002, 11:09 PM: Message edited by: going_crazy ]</small>

dear going crazy,

sorry for your situation. I guess plan A is a good idea. But, you are fighting a difficult battle. You've only been married 4 years before he decided to leave. I get the impression you don't have kids. He's been putting you through this hell for a year and a half. Are you sure you even want him?

In your plan A, be sure to focus on YOU. You do not deserve this kind of treatment. How old are you? Maybe once you turn your attention to creating the kind of life you want to live, you will find it, with or without him. Build your strength, you deserve so much more.

Espoir: Steve suggested Plan A, he did back and May and did about a month ago. It is so ironic, when I told Steve everything that WH tells me and how cruel it sounds, Steve is not even phased. He said it is so typical.

I get to the point sometimes that I can just ignore it because I know it is someone else talking, not the person I married.

I am 29, WH is 31, no we do not have children, we were had planned on starting about 5 years after we were married, well..., that's not happening obviously.

It is typical for a cheating spouse to say these cruel things. I KNOW. I know my husband , ws that is, is not who he used to be. You have seen some of the cruel emails he has written me.... He used to go on and on , on end about how much he loved me down to the week he left. Believe it or not. When we used to argue, he would tell me he could not look at me or he would hopelessly give in- he loved me so much... guess I need my beauty back? (ah- the attractiveness need)- I think you have that one covered.

You are gorgeous.

You should plan a , plan a, plan a.

That means NO RELTAtIONship talk, NO LBing.

I have lbed lately with counseling suggestions, and talks or mention of AA.

J basically told me he won't do any of my suggestions. I HAVE TO PROVE MYSELF. WHEN HE SEES ME ACTING AS THE WIFE HE WANTS>>> HE WANTS TO COME BACK.

ANyway, I am praying for and thinking of you. I meant to call you earlier, but I was in bed with my boys watching a movie praying they would fall asleep. it took a while, as my little one would not... and he kept talking... cutie that he is.. he talks too much! Basically had to turn tv and lights off and sit in the dark... of course I feel asleep.

I DID MY FIRM TAPE TODAY>.. the ab one. IT was only 25 minutes - at least try that one tomorrow... it is not that hard.

My cardio one that is longer.. the first one is stuck in my downstairs vcr. BOY does everything break around here without a man around, it is crazy. I am not sure my ws fixed everything, but e verything just seems more challenging when there is only one to do it.

SOme yard people, I think... unless I have a generous neighbor accidently did my front yard last week... it was a blessing. My back yard it soo long. I wanted to do it today, but with sore throat and some fever this am, I skipped.

I also joined a pool nearby so that I can start swimming- I used to be a swimmer in high school and taught swimming and lifegaurded all through college.

GET THOSE ENDORPHINS UP! If I don't I will need anti d's again.

Once I did get out of a depression by making a list of all the things I wanted in my life, and making plans on how I would do them, and working on those goals. Good time to do that!

Think of what GC wants with or without WS. WOrk those goals, it will give you a purpose besides restoration.

You can have restoration with his willingness. YOu can do the best you can to fix this marriage, but it takes two.

I am thinking of and praying for you.

Hugs, HONEY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Thanks, HOney! I did my Firm CardioSculpt for the first time last night, I feel okay today, but I'm sure I will be feeling it tomorrow. I went ahead and used weights even though they tell you not to starting out!

He seems to tell me different things, the lies, are awful, like I said before, I have a feeling that he is going to tell me that he is been thinking "alone" when I know he has been seeing her. but yet, he does not know I know that. Sometimes I feel like I should be a PI or something.

I worked through some of my Restoration Ministries workbook last night, about keeping silent, if you don't know what to say, say nothing, as WH will judge every word I say.

Hi there, I stayed home again.. did not sleep last night... feel quilty, but I need it.

My neighbor just came over and told me the Lord put it on her to make dinner for me and the boys tonight. WOW! SHe wanted to know if we like lasagna. WOW.

Anyway, I am depressed, sore throat etc.

I too worked through the First chapter AGAIN of that workbook... it doesn't seem to sink in. I did get that my husband should be right after GOd in my life, and that makes me want to help him in ways I have dropped the support. I.e. business... I am going to do a bit of work from the house today to help in that area. That will help make up for my missed time at work and also help him.

I am so sad and so much miss our old life.

I am with you on saying nothing, that is the magic thing to do! Say nothing. Well don't be silent, but be polite and just agree with him. Yesterday J sd I am to no longer call him without id, he is mad on that one.

OK, I will do what he wants.

I know the PI feeling. DOn't be dumb like me, and think that you are close like you once were and you can admit you looked or checked.... in your pi work. I told him some stuff I found out and he hated me more. It was a major lb, better not to tell we know anything. Let him lie.

Now we know what it is like to be parents of teens who lie.

Oh my goodness, I feel like ws is such a child ... rebelling against responsibility and everything else.

DOn't worry or fret. Just let him come and talk. Ask for time if you feel that will be oK, or counseling???? who knows??? I dont know what to do.

Expect the worst, that is what he says to do. ZBut have a plan. What will you say if he talks about the dreaded D? I don't know what I would say.

That you don't want it, and that you will do anything to save the marriage. That you lo ve him. Talk aobut your part. Show HIM SHOW, that is with action, how you have changed for the better from what he is angry about.

Hugs to you sweetie, I am sorry.

HONEY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Sorry to hear about what has been going on with you GC. I understand you not wanting to hear the same thing again, it's so painful to get beat up by the same words over and over again.

I'm not sure what your thinking is at this point. Maybe you could try some reverse babble on him. Stop letting him see you upset over this. If he really does still love you, indifference will disturb him the most. He will be bothered by potentially losing you for good if he is still insecure about his relationship with OW. You could even drop the fact you are thinking about moving to a new city, starting a frest new life, with no ties. (Even if you are not, you can always dream can't ya!)

Make sure you stress the "with no ties". As soon as he divorces you, he has a new woman to deal with, and all the crap that comes with it. Do you think their relationship with be storybook? It's based on lies and deception from the start... I doubt it will go well.

I for one think you deserve better than this. That you could find someone who will treat you with more respect, and you will know you have his love.

I wish you the best of luck hun, you deserve some good times in your future!

FindingMyWayBack: I noticed that you were the WS, do you have some suggestions of reverse babble.

I have a feeling he will say the following:
" I have spent the last month alone, thinking things through. I want a divorce as soon as possible because I love OW too much"

remember, I know for sure he has been contacting OW in person, and via phone several times.

How should I respond?

forking out the big bucks again and calling the big dogs in...just scheduled a session with Steve H tomorrow to prep me for our talk. Hopefully Steve will help me with all scenarios that may happen.

My suggestion would be:
"I am sorry you have come to this decision. I love you and our marriage was fulfilling for me- I'm sorry to learn that you didn't feel the same way. I understand that you have made this decsion, but please know that it causes me alot of pain and heartbreak. I thought we had something special, and it's devastating to lose it."

Then tell him that you would appreciate it if he would handle the logistics of the divorce as you find dealing with those details very depressing. Let him file, and pay for it too! Since you don't have kids, it should be simpler.

In the meantime, you are only 29, with no kids. Think twice about whether you want a man who would do this to you after only 4 years of marriage- what's he gonna do after 20 years, the stress of a couple of kids etc.

Your story reminds me a bit of a friend of my H's. He is very messed up inside, due to a very troubled childhood. He married young, to a very nice girl. After 7 years of marriage (she was 29) they were planning to have children. He sabotaged the M- had an A- and wouldn't work on the M, even though his wife wanted to reconcile- basically because he was unready to shoulder the responsibility of children- and because he couldn't handle a functional relationship with a nice girl. They divorced.

Her story- not long after divorce, meets a very nice guy who treats her like gold- they marry and have twins. She moves on with her life- happily.

His story- He dated for about 5-6 years. He finally finds the ***** on wheels who resembles the mother who treated him callously as a child, knocks up said woman, marries her, she verbally abuses him and spends money like it's going out of style, he is depressed, now separated from 2nd wife (she left him because she wanted a better earner). He is about to declare bankruptcy. His 2nd wife is the STBXW from HELL and it's a total nightmare all around.

Interesting that your H did this as you got closer to the time you had planned to start a family. I suspect there's something psychological going on there. Fear of responsibilty, commitment or entrapment perhaps. Does H have family of origin issues?

GC,

My heart goes out to you. I have just like everyone else has had these conversations. Some can handle these and some can't. I am glad to see that you are going to talk to Steve before you talk to your WS. I would also advise that you pray on what is going to be said between the both of you and that something productive will come from it. I saw in earlier replys that you need to think about what you want to say, but I also want you to think about how far you are willing to go in the conversation.

For example. If he tells you that he is done and wants the D to go forward you don't have to tell him anything on the spot. I know that it is hard to do that. Tell him something like, "I understand where you are coming from and I would like sometime to think about this.

I sent you a reply to your email and the offer I made in it is still vaild. I know that you don't really know me that well, but with me being so close I feel obligated to help in any way I can.

Indy

Michelle - I am sorry that he is doing this to you again ... I don't understand why they say I will talk to you tomorrow or the next day and make us sit around and ponder what they are going to talk about - You have to decide what you are going to do - if he says ok I want a divorce - You have to be strong and let him know how you feel .. I have always told my husband you know what I didn't want this divorce but if this is what you want then fine... I secretly hope that when he finally figures out that he screwed up that I am happy again...without him... that is my dream - what the heck does it cost to speak with the Harleys -??? Just curious - make sure you keep me posted - good luck - and I will tell you what my cousin told me - you are worthy to be loved.... so just keep thinking you are worthy.... Mimi

GC -- I just got back from a business trip. I am very glad that you are going to talk to SH before your talk with WH. The only advice I can give you is not to go into the "talk" with any preconceived notions of what he is or isn't going to say. I think the WH often set up a time to have a talk with something specific on their minds, but when they see you and you are being your nice and kind self, they get confused again.

Many times I think the WH is looking for some sign or direction as to what to do and it just never materializes in the way they believe it is going to, so they stay in this limbo world and keep you in it too.

I am very curious to hear what Steve H. has to say about whether you should or should not let your WH know that you know he's been in contact with OW again. I suspect he will tell you not to bring it up specifically, but if your WH says he's been off "sorting out his head on his own" and that he's decided he wants a D, that you should simply say you know he has been back in contact with OW without providing any specifics. Then to say something along the lines of "I am sorry you feel this way and that you know that I do not want a D."

Leave the next move up to him is my guess as to what you will be advised. It is a really hard thing to remember that there is nothing we can do to change the WH.

I will be thinking of you tomorrow. My guess is that he won't have anything definitive to say and may not even go through with getting together for a talk (that has certainly been the case with my WH who sounds much like yours in terms of waffling/confusion/coming and going). He is likely still really confused (at least that is how it sounds from your posts).

USH: what is it with the fogginess, our husbands sound exactly the same sometimes, they are so textbook it is pathetic!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by espoir:
<strong>
Interesting that your H did this as you got closer to the time you had planned to start a family. I suspect there's something psychological going on there. Fear of responsibilty, commitment or entrapment perhaps. Does H have family of origin issues?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WH's parents divorced due to his dad's infidelity. His mom and dad hate each other, never to speak to one another, that is how he sees the affects of an affair. His mom (from being the BS standpoint), tells him there isn't anyway to recover a marriage after an affair, which is not helping matters at all. He has seen how nasty it can be and doesn't know any other way

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by INDY_357:
<strong>I would also advise that you pray on what is going to be said between the both of you and that something productive will come from it. I saw in earlier replys that you need to think about what you want to say, but I also want you to think about how far you are willing to go in the conversation. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I will be definitely be praying for guidance, I have been this whole road, its the only thing that has kept me halfway sane. It is so hard trying to wonder what he is going to say, I know I shouldn't, but I want to be prepared for everything. I know that maybe I should expect the worst, but I also want to portray a positive mental attitude, I don't think that can be done when I feel like my life is falling apart. I pray that Steve will give me the guidance I need for every possible situation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by INDY_357:
<strong> For example. If he tells you that he is done and wants the D to go forward you don't have to tell him anything on the spot. I know that it is hard to do that. Tell him something like, "I understand where you are coming from and I would like sometime to think about this.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When he told me he wanted a divorce almost a month ago (I don't think he has done anything yet), he told me that if I did anything to delay it or anything, he will fight me tooth and nail for everything. He keeps telling me I wouldn't have a thing without him and his family. Well, the truth is I have an engineering degree, make alot more than he does, sacrificed paying off my student loans to pay off his HUGE debt when we got married, but none of that matters in a no fault state.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by INDY_357:
<strong>I sent you a reply to your email and the offer I made in it is still vaild. I know that you don't really know me that well, but with me being so close I feel obligated to help in any way I can.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">thanks, I still have that email, I appreciate it, maybe we should round up some Hoosiers??

maw64: my sessions cost $165 but I have been in counseling with Steve since May before the price increase, I believe its now $185, so I'm not sure if mine will be that much or not

Wow that is alot of money but if it helps then it is definately worth it - Did your husband do any sessions with you yet or only you???Now is he coming over after work??? Are you going to do what Steve Harley suggests or are you going to go with your gut instinct - which at this point is what??? You are going to let him make all of the moves right??? Actually you are lucky that you have no kids because then you can actually stay in Plan A longer - because it is only affecting you and not children...I hope you get some sleep tonite - and I wish you luck tomorrow - keep us posted... Mimi

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by maw64:
<strong>Did your husband do any sessions with you yet or only you???</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just me, WH had one scheduled and cancelled it, this was a day before he told me he wanted a divorce ASAP about a month ago.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by maw64:
<strong>Now is he coming over after work???</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If he is coming, he should be here when I get home from work. I'm not for sure if he is coming or not now, especially when I told him that if it was going to be a repeat of our last conversation, I did not want to hear it again.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by maw64:
<strong>Are you going to do what Steve Harley suggests or are you going to go with your gut instinct - which at this point is what??? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have a feeling Steve will keep me in Plan A, my main focus is being able to handle any situation my WH throws at me tomorrow, and how I should handle it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by maw64:
<strong>You are going to let him make all of the moves right??? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YOu mean if he pursues a divorce? Yep, you are right, I am not paying one dime.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by maw64:
<strong>Actually you are lucky that you have no kids because then you can actually stay in Plan A longer - because it is only affecting you and not children...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are probably right there, and from my sessions with Steve, he said Plan B is very, very dangerous when there are no kids involved. I don't have a problem staying in Plan A, I just need help on how to handle unexpected situations.

appt with Steve in 30 min.

I'll post an update with what he says