Back when WH was slipping out of the fog, I had given him SAA and His Needs, Her Needs. He also borrowed Dr. Phil's Relationship Rescue (he asked for that one).

His normal behavior when I had let him borrow books in the past was to leave them sitting on the kitchen counter for me to see.

This time, I was reading in bed, and just happened to look over at a bookshelf in my bedroom that I keep all of my "relationship" books.

He had brought back Dr. Phils Relationship Rescue and SAA and had put them on the shelf. I guess he still has His Needs, Her Needs because it was not there.

Should I ask him next time I speak to him his thoughts on the books? My gut feeling is that he did not even read them so I just don't want to come out and ask "Did you read them?".

I thought of maybe first thanking him for returning them, then asking his thoughts. I REALLY want to know if they had been read.

Also, I am wondering if he kept back His Needs, Her Needs for a reason? I'm scared he is now going to use that book to better his relationship with OW! Should I ask about that one also?

I have no clue when he brought these back, I just put up the bookshelf a couple of weeks ago.

thoughts, please, like I said, really want to know if he read them at all.

<small>[ September 28, 2002, 11:49 PM: Message edited by: going_crazy ]</small>

GC,

I understand your desire to know but is this really a need or more of a desire?

IMHO, I don't think you are going to find out without LBing. So decide if it is worth the LB or not. Several have worried about the WS using the MB info as a working tool with the OP. Don't worry, doesn't work well on an A. Not designed for an A. MB info requires POJA and being honest. Can't have that in an A. A's are build on distrust. So keep that piece of insight in your pocket and encourage them to use MB stuff in the A. Get it???? Reverse psycology WS babble!

L.

GC,

Sorry I didn't address all your question on my last post....... I think you should put the books on the kitchen counter..... then ask him if he brought these home. Just as if he put it there.
See his response and plan to just ask nonchalant about it. Don't look anxious.

He will talk if he wants and if he doesn't pulling out of him may cause an LB.

Hope this clarifies my other post.

L.

G_C,
I wouldn't say a word. If he wanted to talk about it, he would of said something. If he has read them, you will notice. As Orchid else said, it doesn't work in an affair.
hugs
bb

Don't even mention it. He will see it as trying to 'educate' him and trying to be 'patronizing' to him. Don't ever bring up the heavy relationship stuff unless he initiates it. Keep things light and fun and maybe slightly romantic/saucy(?) if you can do this. He wants you to recreate the passion in the marriage. You'll have a much better response to a copy of Kama Sutra from him.

- relate

<small>[ September 29, 2002, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: relate ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>I think you should put the books on the kitchen counter..... then ask him if he brought these home. Just as if he put it there.
See his response and plan to just ask nonchalant about it. Don't look anxious.

He will talk if he wants and if he doesn't pulling out of him may cause an LB. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid,
confused about this one, right now the only contact I have is via email or phone, so I don
t know how much good this would do

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by blondblossom:
<strong>G_C,
I wouldn't say a word. If he wanted to talk about it, he would of said something. If he has read them, you will notice. As Orchid else said, it doesn't work in an affair.
hugs
bb</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">from his actions, he has NOT read them, maybe that is why he felt he had to sneak them back to me, just confused on why he kept HNHN! also, from what I remember doesn't HNHN have something on the cover about keeping an affair-proof relationship?

I'd thank him for bringing the books back and leave it at that. Don't ask if he read them. Don't try to get info out of him, whether or not he read the books is something you can't control. Acknowledge, as a courtesy, that he returned your books and leave it at that.

IMHO even thanking him may be an LB. Fogese stuff ya know!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

So leaving the books on the counter may spark a response from him even if he sneaks over when you are not home.

Now my question is that you allow him into the home to come and go as you please? This is ok? I am not saying it shouldn't be, just asking.

L.

Ok...Orchid and I agree to disagree on the 'thank-you part! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> It's your call!!! LOL

BUT...In agreement with Orchid <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ...I am wondering what your thought process is for letting your WH into your home as he pleases????

Orchid & MGM:

I thought about just thanking him, but I already know what his answer will be, it will be a simple "you're welcome", not for sure on this one!!

I think he may see it as an LB if I put them back out, he may think that I am trying to get him to read them again? what do you think, Orchid?

As for letting him come and go, he still pays half of the mortgage to our home, has been ever since he left almost 20 months ago. I didn't even ask him to, he just writes me a $900 check every month for his half of the mortgage, his portion of the car insurance (we still have joint insurance), and his portion of health insurance (we were both on his medical plan until he lost his job, both went to mine, which deducts a portion out of my paycheck).

So, I can't really tell him he can't since he does that. Also, all of his mail comes here.

<small>[ September 29, 2002, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: going_crazy ]</small>

Hi G_C,

I understand that you are confused. But don't give him any reasons to feel controlled or mad.

If he has read the books or not, is a question you can ask him when he is "unfogged". I'd leave the books where they are and I wouldn't play any mind games. If he snuck them in the bookshelf, he doesn't want to talk about them.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> just confused on
why he kept HNHN! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No matter what, don't ask!!!
No matter why he might be reading it. If he reads it to get a better understanding, he will realize what the true problems are in your marriage. If he reads it to benefit in his affair he really has a problem because this would show you that they already need "education" how to make it work.

On the front cover is says:"Building an Affair-Proof Marriage."

One thing that comes to my mind when I looked into this book is that the words "husband" and "wife" is mentioned continueously.
If he reads the book he'll be reading these words too.

The "Honesty and Openness" chapter really will get him thinking.
I liked the part: Questions for Him
1. On the scale of one to ten (with ten being totally honest), how honest are you with your wife? (How would she rate you on this scale?)

If he is reading this to make his affair work, how will he be explaining this to himself. How will this really make sence?? He's either honest or unhonest. I can't say that I am an honest person if I lie to one person and am "honest" to another. It's like being pregnant. I'm either pregnant or not.

So don't worry if he's reading it or not and why. Nothing that is based on a lie will become "positive". In his state of "fog" he might think so but this isn't reality and sooner or later their own lies will catch up with them.
It is never something that they can look back at and be prowd about. Nothing that they would ever want to share with others. They will know how tricky they are capable to be and how they were able to lie.
I'm sure that OW is going crazy. Believe me, she surely isn't on the safe-side and she knows that!
The fact that he isn't divorced is probably making her crazy and very insecure. Don't believe that she feels secure and safe, she isn't! And the fact that he had told her that you are the problem why he isn't divorced yet is already a lie! So he doesn't feel safe and secure either.
This shows you that he already feels "pressured" by her.

He probably feels like a "weak idiot" right now. He's running away from all problems and I'm sure he realizes this.
Listen to what SH told you and follow your plan!!!
hugs
bb

GC,

I understand the fact that he pays for his share. What would he pay for if he was D?

Maybe in your sitch $$ doesn't matter and the Ws can't be brought back to reality with the calculator/Kaching$$$$! Then you may need to find another piece of reality to use to your advantage. Is this a weapon? Depends if you consider the A a threat of war on the M or not.

But since he is out of the house, does he allow you free access to his place of residence? If not, then why should he have free reign to yours? If you rented, would your landlord get to walk into your home while you are not at home?

As for the books, well you have several opinions and really BB is making the most sense. Me, I would still choose to leave it on the counter.......and not say anything. Leaving it in the bookshelf without a word may work also. It is your call and his reaction. No prediction on this on just a bunch of opinions. Sorry to put the burden of this one back on you but some of the stuff we go through can turn in a minute. One moment you think you know what you are doing and BAM, the next you wonder what hit you!

I agree that it would be better not to acknowledge the return of the books until he brings it up, then in a nonchalant way say 'oh, yea I noticed it, thanks for bringing it back.'

Hm....... make him wonder......

Also, I'd rearrange furniture and make visible changes (some paint, get new furniture, new curtains, redo the yard., etc.) . So that when he does come over he may be more apt to say he had come over because he either can't find what he wanted and has to ask or is in awe of the changes and can't hide his feelings. Something like that.

L.

Hi GC -- I like/agree with Orchid's advice on the books AND the ideas about the house.

When WH can come and go as they please (which was my situation at first and then I asked very politely if he could ask before he comes over), you do need to make some changes to make them curious what you are doing.

Leave the books on the counter. Get new sheets/comforter for the bed and put candles in the bedroom and bathroom. Buy new underwear/sexy and leave it hanging in the bathroom. All these things are good for you and may have the added benefit of making WH wonder what's up next time he comes over.

I would make the house look mysterious.. as if there might be someone else... haha.. now don't say a thing.. that would probably make him mad.-I loved your underwear hanging out on the towel rack bit- I do like making him wonder. Perhaps have food made out in a cake cover or something like that... ?

Now you could plan a and leave him some yummies with his name on it, or a sweet note for when he comes to get the mail. I have a feeling he might like this.

I don't know what to advise to ask or not to as. Lately I say way too much to wayward spouse... there is a little less anger going on between us maybe because of that??? Who knows?

My experience with the books, is that they might breeze through them or look at a few chapters... perhaps the hnhn is making him feel less quilty and he can deal with that one? I assume the A books with the upfront talk about the A is too much for Mr. Conflict Avoider.

There was a movie I saw where the wife was just basic plan a nice when she saw her spouse.. they were seperated due to an a. She confronted him and was angry when he left... and he was gone becuase of her basically kicking him out. Now she was nice when he came by, etc. and eventually they worked it out without talk of the A in the movie. Jacqueline Smith starre in it and it was a Danielle Steele movie I think.

Remember Her... you don't have to mention the reading of the books.. the recovery, sometimes it is just too much to even talk about it.

Remember how he used to be your best friend.. now treat him like that. It is hard, I know.

Just let it go... let it go... be glad he didn't waste your money and throw them in the trash like my h did in the beginning! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hugs, HONEY

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by blondblossom:
<strong>I'm sure that OW is going crazy. Believe me, she surely isn't on the safe-side and she knows that!
The fact that he isn't divorced is probably making her crazy and very insecure. Don't believe that she feels secure and safe, she isn't! And the fact that he had told her that you are the problem why he isn't divorced yet is already a lie! So he doesn't feel safe and secure either.
This shows you that he already feels "pressured" by her.

He probably feels like a "weak idiot" right now. He's running away from all problems and I'm sure he realizes this.
Listen to what SH told you and follow your plan!!!
hugs
bb</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">wouldn't it be nice if OW knew he had a book on "building an affair proof marriage" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

about the "weak idiot", that's interesting, Steve told me that the reason my husband is avoiding me is because he is afraid to see me. Steve said that WH thinks he has made up his mind and knows that if he sees me again than he will be all confused.

I hope that she is pressuring him, I really do.
ok, as for now, I am not going to say anything, because he is expecting me to.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>I understand the fact that he pays for his share. What would he pay for if he was D? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">he told me that if we were to get divorced, that we would put the house up for sale, and he would still pay half unti it sold. Funny, he hasn't metnioned putting it up for sale in a long time! there is no need for me to live in a huge house with a large mortgage by myself.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>Maybe in your sitch $$ doesn't matter and the Ws can't be brought back to reality with the calculator/Kaching$$$$! Then you may need to find another piece of reality to use to your advantage. Is this a weapon? Depends if you consider the A a threat of war on the M or not. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid, can you ellaborate on the above, I didn't really understand what you meant?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>But since he is out of the house, does he allow you free access to his place of residence? If not, then why should he have free reign to yours? If you rented, would your landlord get to walk into your home while you are not at home? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He was living with OW up to a month ago, when he moved everything back. Currently, he says he is staying with one of his friends near his work (his work is a 2 hour drive from OW's). So, he does not have his own place.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>As for the books, well you have several opinions and really BB is making the most sense. Me, I would still choose to leave it on the counter.......and not say anything. Leaving it in the bookshelf without a word may work also. It is your call and his reaction. No prediction on this on just a bunch of opinions. Sorry to put the burden of this one back on you but some of the stuff we go through can turn in a minute. One moment you think you know what you are doing and BAM, the next you wonder what hit you!

I agree that it would be better not to acknowledge the return of the books until he brings it up, then in a nonchalant way say 'oh, yea I noticed it, thanks for bringing it back.' </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid, I think for now, I am going to leave them on the bookshelf, that may change!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>Also, I'd rearrange furniture and make visible changes (some paint, get new furniture, new curtains, redo the yard., etc.) </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have done a little of that, and he hasn't said a word!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by unsureheart:
<strong>Leave the books on the counter. Get new sheets/comforter for the bed and put candles in the bedroom and bathroom. Buy new underwear/sexy and leave it hanging in the bathroom. All these things are good for you and may have the added benefit of making WH wonder what's up next time he comes over.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you gals are killing me here!! Its 3-2 on what I should i do about those books!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
As for the sexy underwear, I have been rotating a few sets of some new underwear I bought, sexy black bras and black thongs, hanging on a drying rack in the bedroom.

But I also still have our wedding pictures hanging up in our bedroom too, should I keep those up?

GC,

What I meant was find something that will put an impact on him and bring his head back to reality. For many money does just that. Can't live a double life with a single income, ya know?

What is it in his life that he will NOT give up (it may be peddy to others but a stubborn point on his part). That is what you may be able to focus on. Something about liking the dog, or sticking up for his sister (who he has hid the A from for fear of her displeasure),et.c).

There was a whole thong thread last year and hanging stuff in the bathroom, even delicately thrown on the bed (when the kids can't view it) was discussed in great detail..... where are those girls that posted all that stuff last year?!?!? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

L.

kEEP THE WEDDING PICS UP IS MY VOTE AND DONT SAY ANYTHING ON THE BOOKS, MY VOTE.. MAYBE HE WILL BRING THEM UP EVENTUALLY.. LET HIM START ALL RELATIONSHIP TALK. ok?

byE, lISA

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>What I meant was find something that will put an impact on him and bring his head back to reality. For many money does just that. Can't live a double life with a single income, ya know? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BIG PROBLEM here!!! A little history, WH grew up as an only child and only grand-child from a wealthy family. Ever since he has left, he has been fed with a silver spoon from his mom and grandmother, with them giving him thousands of dollars. His mom and dad (who are also divorced due to his fathers affair) support him and the OW. They even go on vacations together with the OW. yuck! They will not allow him to hit bottom, unfortunately.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>What is it in his life that he will NOT give up (it may be peddy to others but a stubborn point on his part). That is what you may be able to focus on. Something about liking the dog, or sticking up for his sister (who he has hid the A from for fear of her displeasure),et.c). </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know this sounds petty, but we have 2 dogs and 2 cats that we treat as our "kids". I already told him I am keeping all of them since I am not the one who chose to leave them. Plus, I still pay for their food, vet care, etc. He told me a month ago that if he was to have the house, our animals, and not me, he would be happy.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>There was a whole thong thread last year and hanging stuff in the bathroom, even delicately thrown on the bed (when the kids can't view it) was discussed in great detail..... where are those girls that posted all that stuff last year</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wish they would come back!!!! I usually do laundry on weekends so I am going to have to hang some new ones up (I keep rotating them to make it look real)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Honey:
<strong>kEEP THE WEDDING PICS UP IS MY VOTE AND DONT SAY ANYTHING ON THE BOOKS, MY VOTE.. MAYBE HE WILL BRING THEM UP EVENTUALLY.. LET HIM START ALL RELATIONSHIP TALK</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">they will stay up, I can't bear to take them down, I'm not going to say anything about the books, at least for now.