I really need some help understanding this. Some of you may already know, WW met OM on the internet. She recently traveled back to see him on days she was suppose to have our boys, even missed thier soccer games. This weekend was her weekend to have them. She had made plans to go with a GF of hers to a Halloween party Saturday night. She asked my mom to watch them for her. My mom loves her grandkids and said she would. At Saturday's soccer game (last one was at noon), I told WW I had to go to Costco after the game. She asked me if I wanted to take the boys with me. She said since they were staying with my mom I could just take them there later. I told her it was only 1:00 and that I would think about it. I eventually told her I had plans for the rest of the afternoon, (which killed me because I really did want the boys with me). She wasn't too happy about it and just acted like I was creating problems for her "plans' for the day. She eventually took the boys to my moms at 3:00!!!! and didn't pick them up till almost 11:00am Sunday (today). She calls me at 4:00pm to ask if I had the boys tonight. WHAT??? She knows I have them tonight. I told her yes I do. She said when do you want them. WHAT AGAIN ??? I said we agreed no later than 6:00 pm. She said well their ready now. I told her if they wanted to come over now, that would be fine. 20 minutes later shes at the door, kids come in, she drops off their stuff, says love you to them and is gone in less than 1 minute. My mom called tonight to tell me that when WW picked up the boys she could tell WW was not acting like she was thirlled to have them. My oldest asked WW, in front of my mom, if they could go to church. WW ignored him.
WW has told me I can have the boys for Thanksgiving. I wondered why. I forgot that OM is supposed to be coming into town the end of November. Since I have the boys that weekend I am sure that she doesn't want them so she can be with OM.
Does this ever get better? Does she even know what she is doing to them. My boys are 8 and 5. We have so much fun together. I feel my boys and I are so close right now and getting closer every day. I started a model train with them and a project for the winter. They are thrilled. I spend all the time I can with them. I talk to them. I am working on giving them unconditional love (thanks 2Long for the book recomendation.)I see what she is doing to them. Does she see this too and just doesn't care? Or, is this just what I should excpect? What can I do for my boys? They have to know and see it, don't they? I know I can do nothing to "educate" her about it and will not try. But it is heartbreaking. I think this is actually hurting me more than the actual affair, even though I know this is part of the it.
Any comments or suggestions would be great.

Oh yeah, haven't lb'd all week. Tomorrow is her birthday. Not sure if I should recognize it or not. She asked the boys as she was dopping them off if they were going to call her tomorrow and wish her happy birthday. It's all about the WS, isn't it? I wonder how they can drive sometimes, when they can't even see the past the end of their nose!!!!!!!!!!!

HW

<small>[ October 27, 2002, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: happinesswithin ]</small>

Dear hw,
I'm not sure I have any worthwhile advice to you, but thought I'd post to share my sympathy. I, too, have a WS who used to be a loving, involved dad. I understand how he might see ME as a "burden" , but can't for a second understand how he can push his children (S 8 and D 6) away.
My thought is that as long as the WS are involved with someone else, they have to put negative feelings onto the family that they are betraying. Otherwise, I think it's too painful to them. I hope that makes some sense, altho' the WS's sure don't! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

My experience and from what I've read on this board is that, "Yes", WS's do tend to ignore everything that was once important. Children, commitment to vows, etc. All part of that fog that they are in.

Take the boys whenever and as often as you possibly can. While she is in this state of mind they aren't going to get the attention from her that they need. You will need to do your best to fill that void. I know that as much as you love them, sometimes it is difficult because of the pain that you are going through. As much as you love them, it sometimes isn't what you are craving right now. I would strongly advise that you get a calendar and document all of your time with them vs. WW. If things come to the worst case scenario (D). You'll have something to establish your pattern with them when you go after visitation. This advice came from my attorney.

Best of luck and God Bless.

<small>[ October 27, 2002, 10:15 PM: Message edited by: Biscayne ]</small>

Thanks Biscayne, I have been documenting everything.
As far as taking them whenever possible. I have been as much as possible. It is a tough place to be in b/c on one hand I want them with me all the time and miss when they are away, plus they need me right now. But, there's a part of me that says well, you want to be a single mom you need to deal with having kids. You just can't be a mom when it is convenient for you. I almost feel like the more I take them the more I am enabling the affair.
Actually I think I just answered my own question. My kids come first and since they are not getting the attention from her at her place I will take them whenever she asks. They come first. She has asked me before to watch them so she can go workout or go to the store and I keep thinking, your a single mom now as I am a single dad, you just can't have the same life you had before. I have had to change a lot as well. I don't get to go play golf like I want to, or go see friends as much, or do a lot of things. My work schedule (I am self employed) has changed too. I can't (won't actually) travel as much. I have worked my travel around when I have my boys. And that is ok, I enjoy being with them more than anything. She has told me that she always thought we would help each other with the kids and was upset when I told her that since she is a single mom now she needs to schedule her nails, hair appointments and gym around her kids, not the other way around. I don't think she has figured that out yet.
I will e-mail her tomorrow telling her that I will take them whenever. I love being with them. We have had such a great time together. I think they really enjoy being with me. I can't begin to tell you how much joy I feel having them with me.

HW

HW

You and me and everybody else here conveniently forgets that we are here only for a limited time on Earth and we do not know when our number is going to be called by God. So enjoy the time you have with your children because you don't know when it will be your last time to be with them. Your gain will be your WW's loss.

Thanks TMCM, thats the attitude I've had with my boys. You're right my gain will be her loss. I just feel bad for them b/c I put myself in their shoes and know it would hurt to not be close to my mom.

HW

My experience is that what is "normal" for many WS is to behave extremely bizarrely, completey different from their normal persona.
My H's best friend (since elementary school) said to me "I have no idea who this person is." When the affair was in full swing my husband chose to estrange himself from all of his family and friends. He even decided that he no longer cared for his much beloved dog. Said he just "didnt' like dogs anymore". It was bizarre beyond words. But when the fog lifted he became even closer to everyone than he was before.

For so long, I had all the pressure of "managing" the house, the kids, our lives.

All the responsibility fell to me -- I was the only one worried if we ran out of toothpaste. the kids need to be signed up for sports, the cat needs to go to the vet, its time for dental appointments, buying christmas gifts, ETC.

Meanwhile, BS just got to coast along. Sure he'd do tasks that I assigned to him. If I was too busy with something, I could tell him he had to go do this or that -- but the RESPONSIBILITY was mine. Why? I didn't ASK for that -- it just happened. And I got SICK of it. We were supposed to be partners.

I reached a point where I just SNAPPED. Thought "you do it BS, I'm done". Went about meeting MY needs for a change with a vengence.

All these years, I have been there for my kids. They know I love them. I want the best for them.

But you know what? I don't have to be at EVERY game. My BS certainly wasn't. (oh believe me NOW he wants to be the perfect family man -- where was he when it mattered to me?)

Lexxxy,

You have said here exactly what my WW has said over the last year. that I went and got my Masters degree, when it was supposed to be her go back and finish her bachelors (now she is finishing). That she handled the home as I charged off with my career and conquering the world. That it was me that was constantly "letting things fall on her head."

How ignorant I was! What I could have done that would have kept from happening what happened to us in Sept 2001. I thought we were moving forward with our plan (her to be home until kids were school age...then back to school...by then I would be retired from military, with her in her early 30s and starting her career). But, what I didnt do was make sure that I took care of things at home. didnt releave pressure on her, unless I was asked. And as things got worse with finances, Bosnia deployment, etc, I pulled back even more. The crowning blow was when I left for Bosnia, and she was stuck with pending bankruptsy hearing, the kids, first year nursing school, a husband that had pulled back from her, etc. So, she started an affair, shipped my kids to her mother's until I got back, and then after I got back, has moved into her own apartment to pursue her last year of nursing school, and OM.

Ultimately, if you read my latest post (as you have Lexxxy), I think she is finally realizing where she belongs and that maybe we can fix this. But, the point is well made....she was a pure giver for so long, that she did what Steve Harley told me was "giver's snap." And her taker took off with a vengeance, and is only now calming down...14 months later.

Lexxy, I won't argue with you at all regarding what you said. My wife stayed home for 2 1/2 years doing transcription work. She did all the things you said. I won't argue at all about me not doing my share of the work around the house etc. But, it seems you have just justified the affair. If I am wrong, please let me know ( I know you will). I can't live in the past and live in the mistakes I have made. But, there's a difference between not being at every game and choosing not to be at games because of another person. I understand everything you have said. Ok, that explains it all, but where do I go from here?
I actually talked to her twice this morning. I called her to wish her a happy birthday, which is today. She said thank you and I asked her if she was ok. She asked why, I just said I was worried about her. I told her that after seeing her Saturday, she looked somewhat distressed. She agreed, but said it was all due to her work. Her and her boss are not getting along at all. Her boss called her last week at 9:00 at night to tell her she was getting too many personal phone calls at work. So WW is looking to pick up more transcription work to do at home and is probably quitting work this week. WW said she sometimes doesn't get to bed till 10:00 at night and has trouble sleeping. I would like to think it has just a little to do with our situation, but maybe it is all because of work. I was very understanding and didn't lb at all. I was very pleasant and supportive. Didn't mention A or R at all. Just told her I am here for her.

HW

I don't post much but your thread made me so sad I just had to say something about it.

I think it is pretty normal for a WS to forget all those things that were once important. And sometimes that also includes the kids. Sad but true. During my A, I missed one soccer game. Just one. And I feel very guilty about that. It was not because I went to see the OM...that was not my intention...but I did see him that day.

I know it doesn't make it any easier, but try to remember that your kids know what is going on. Maybe not specifically but they know that mommy is acting very weird. They know that you are the one they can count on, the one that wants to be with them.

In the long run, if she keeps this up, all of it will come back to bite her in the butt. One day, she will realize that she wants and needs her kids and they will tell her too little, too late. Another sad commentary, but all too true.

Keep your chin up and do your best to be there for your kids. It will all pay off in the end.

My XW, during her "summer of love" with OM was gone every weekend between Memorial Day and Labor Day. She left every saturday morning in her pumps, hot pants and push-up bra, leaving our then 4 y.o. daughter crying on the driveway. Keep in mind, this was a woman who once wore plaid skirts and sweaters.

Now she is primary custodial parent, moved 3 hours away, and is denying me full visitation. she has been served with contempt of court papers and I'm trying to get the visitation order fully complied with.

X spouses in affairs seem to have zero conscience. I'm over the deceit and disrespect, but to deceive me regarding visitation.....hope she has an asbestos suit to wear when her time comes.

My wife had an affair after we were married 19 years. Two daughters. She left just after the youngest turned 8 and the oldest was 13 (now 11 & 17.) She has only seen them once since Feb 99. She has not called since Feb this year and has only called 5 times in the last 1.5 years.

Do what you can to be there for them. When you say you will be there at 3 PM, you need absolutely be there at 3 PM. NO EXCEPTIONS! Show them you live up to your words.

They see the games mom is playing and it hurts them. You don't need to point it out to them. Just be their rock.

HW and others who have posted in response to his thread....

Thank you all ~ you are providing me great strength in dealing with my situation. WH is still in our home but is gone at outpatient (alcohol recovery), work, or AA Meetings from 8:00 a.m. until 9:30 p.m. every week day, Sat mornings from 8-1, Sat evenings from 5-11:30 and Sun evenings from 5-9:30. He sees our 1 year old son in the mornings for an hour while I am dressing for work and, very often, his spending time with DS is putting him in his rocker chair and putting on a video while WH is on the computer. I work 9 hour days in a very high profile, high ranking position in my company and then take care of DS all night and all weekend ~ very very little help from WH. I have not been out on my own for some time to myself in over a month. I am exhausted, feeling used and overwhelmed. All of your posts remind me how lucky I am to be able to spend all of this wonderful time with my little guy ~ even when he wakes up multiple times a night. Thank you.

Brit's Brat/BS-41
WH-43
DS-1 year old
Status: One Day At A Time, but think that WH and OW are still in contact.