Sorry, not coming , thanks for the offer.

Earlier he had been a bit rude about supposedly coming over today to work on my comupter - says he tried to come ... but- opps, I was out to dinner when he called and tried to come 5-7 pm.

I think I had lb'd and mentioned aa again, WRONG. I mentioned AA might help him think about how alcohol might interfere with holding a steady job... big LB, he hung up.

He is now under the influence, upset that I won't pack up our 4 yr old at 1am and drive 30 minutes to his place to sleep on his uncomfomterable futon.

I am glad I have the strength to say NO. But thanks. I sd not good for baby or me, we are still both sick. Big brother is at my parents tonight enjoying a normal hom e environment.

Anyway, he claims he will come by tomorrow for work on the computer. I invited him to church, says he won't be up that early.

I asked about counseling, he says he will still go and wants to talk about things, not sure if it will work he says.

He seems angry I don't just come over.

Oh well.

I was reading my RULES book earlier today and I don't think a RULES girl would do that, would she?

Not only a RULES girl, A RULES wife, etc.

I am tired of being treated so low... I won't take it anymore. I am coming back to me.

BTW.. can't wait, tomorrow I get new curtains my mom is making me on my 2 front den windows... ! I am excited! Us girls love to decorate, don't we?

When I woke up, I think it was from a bad dream about how he talks to me, treats me. And I started thinking HOW...

when he left I was taking 20+ pain pills a day... well not all pain, but mostly.. arthritis, neurontin, anti d's, pain managment types of pills.. funny I don't remember all of them now... YES, housework had come to a lull compared to my normal stance on it.. and he has made fun of me for it... and ground me into the ground.. and got me sooo depressed, I am just now getting a hold of it like i used to again... PRAISE THE LORD.

I am awakening from depression and realizing how he has beaten me down wit h comments about my weight, appearance, housekeeping skills... it was always.. you used to look better, you used to keep the house clean.. HELL, I was very ill, and on all kinds of meds.

I got off the meds in feb of this yr completely after having a nerve block in my back.. this was all from a car wreck.

I know a big part of it, was, I WAS NOT TAKING CARE OF HIM! I couldn't at the time, and I was not gorgeous, he would come home to a sloppy, sleepy wife who ached and complained of pain, and dealt with a toddler all day...

OH WELL... enough sd, VENT>

Thanks for being here, just thought I would post on the ongoing saga.

Hugs and thanks to those of you who are here.

HONEY

For Marriage Building, you need to do the exact opposite.

Your refusal to visit his home, at a reasonable time (not at 1:00 am) with the kids is terribly controlling and domineering thing to do. You should be listening to him and making the changes he requests, not dimissing his requests. He needs you to look after him (domestic support) and make more of an effort with your looks (attractive spouse). You should be glad he is revealing His Needs to you and doing your best to listen and meet his needs. You should take your children to his place and admire his attempts (Admiration) at what he has achieved, not put it down.

<small>[ November 10, 2002, 05:55 AM: Message edited by: relate ]</small>

Honey - I recommend you ignore relate's advice. You've set very reasonable and responsible boundaries. Keep putting the welfare of your child first.

Honey Said:

"I am awakening from depression and realizing how he has beaten me down wit h comments about my weight, appearance, housekeeping skills... it was always.. you used to look better, you used to keep the house clean.. HELL, I was very ill, and on all kinds of meds."

Honey, you ARE waking up to the fact that you are a good person who deserves to be treated with respect, dignity, and honor. I agree with WAT that your boundries are reasonable and you should 'stick to the rules'.

Your H is starting to see the healing you have started. He will begin to have less and less control over your emotions. This is one of his last hidden areas that keeps his self esteem from hitting bottom. I know this sounds wierd, but alcoholism drives selfishness and vice versa. It's a self feeding disease.

You can not help him. He must come to his own rescue, and then others can be there for support. Right now it's all about you and your children! As it should be <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> !

Blessings to you and your family...

Gib

Thanks Gib and WAT- I appreciate the feedback and support. A while back I would of done whatever he wanted in my plan A..... even if it was not what is best for me and sometimes the kids...

Now, we are all first.. me and the boys and IF he is respectful... he is in the game, if not, and not reasonable - NO. I am able to let go and let him go to his wy of life.. I can't live the way he is living.

As for Relate, perhaps you misunderstand. I do now take great care of my apprearance, home, etc. - my en's for me, as well as his.. but I admit... I am doing it for me more than for him.

I was on tons of meds when he left and not my normal peppy, beautiful, workaholic, superwoman self.... I DONT THINK HE LIKED THAT... he went for a girl who had some of the stuff I lost during my illness- albeit NO MORALS.. and she did not last long, not to mention a big drinking problem to boot.... on the ow's part.

I am feeling stronger, and WOW- he does treat me better.

I was afraid if I didn't jump to every whim... especially after ow number 2, that he will have an ow number 3. Well at this pt, I am no longer afraid. He can have ow number 3, if he can't treat me right, and the next time he can really lose me. I will file if I find out about another ow.

His alcoholism is bad. He was slurring speech like crazy and obviously just wanted someone in his bed... he was drunk enough to risk his pride and ask me at 1am. I just won't do it, and he was MAD>

Well the rules says, some men will be angry when turned down... but in order to have them treat you right.. you must do this. The rules for marriage say give lots of love and attention to your spouse... well, I would love to, if he were home and treating me right.

I think his seeing me drawing back is opening him up to counseling... he can't have me anymore and treat me bad... HE WAS.. getting to see me, and then the next day ranting and raving to me on the phone with put downs.. NOW I politely hang up.

Typing this out helps me remind myself of my plan. Alanon is really helping me wake up and take care of me, and draw the boundaries...

a few of which are:

He needs to ask me out in advance... -ie, the situation above..

I am not spending the night at his place unless there is some real improvement in our relationship. No more sf, until something changes...

I am not listening to one cruel word on the phone or in person from him , and will politely leave anytime he starts it.

I have made it clear he must be sober when picking up the kids and driving, and have asked that he stay fairly sober, only a few beers while kids visit. THis I cant control and it scares me... the visit part. Considering having older son call when he is too drunk... have told him to, but have never gotten a call... should I remind son? Hate to bring kids into it, but I do get reports.. Dad was really drunk, when they come home/... Of course I don't know the true extent.

What to do about visitations? Gib?

My ws, has lots of pride and insists on seeing them every other weekend, he also wants to take them on a 14 hr drive to visit his relative in GA on the holidays? What to do, it scares me? He is usually OK? I just wonder when will he not be, when the kids are with him. it scares me, but I don't want to go to the authorities...

Hugs and thanks, HONEY

Honey,

You sound SOOOOOO good! This is the strong Honey that I knew! You are right to set boundaries and stick to them. I wish you could hear the difference in your posts, you would be filled with pride!!

I would remind your oldest that if he thinks that it is unsafe for his Dad to drive him and his brother home to call you and you will pick them up. As for the 14 hour drive, there is nothing you can really do about it. So I guess you will have to trust your WH to drive sober for that amount of time. You may want to approach him with your concern about the kid's safety. This may just serve as a reminder that he NEEDS to stay sober to drive with the kids. I don't know that may be a LB???? But it may also be one LB that HAS to be said! Your kids safety is worth that!!

Well gotta run, but just want to tell you again, YOU GO GIRL!!!!!!

HUGS!!!
PQ

Relate-I do not agree with your post. She has set reasonable boundaries which watch out for her and her children. My H and I were in christian counseling for 5 years off and on, and boundaries was one of the 'biggest' things we learned.

Honey-way to go! You are going to earn more respect by doing what is right for you, while still respecting him. 1 a.m.? Is he nuts! Like anyone would pack up their kids and head on over.

I am proud of you! You are on the right track. I wish I had stayed that strong when my H came back.

Keep posting

Honey,
You have an awesome personality, and you deserve the best. Hold out for that. You may not be able to have a life with your WH, but you are strong and can go on. God will take care of you and your boys. We will survive this!
KK

You are doing GREAT!!! Your posts are so much more together than when you first started posting here. It's obvious it's still a struggle, but you are WINNING!!

You're doing great! That's the right path. While I know you'd like to have your marriage back on track, you are getting your life back on track and making a secure and loving home for your children. IF..your H chooses to reach out for help with his drinking problem, there may come a time where he'll benefit from all the improvements you are making for YOU, but until that day...you're living your life.

It's possible that he won't even remember the phone call today, if he's drinking so much, it's likely that he's going to start suffereing from blackouts while drinking. The one thing you do NOT want to do is "save" him or negate the results of his bad choices for him. He must "hit rock bottom" before he'll be forced to see himself and his problem. (This is true of almost all those who have a drinking problem.) Then it will be up to him if he wants to "save" himself or not...YOU can NOT do it for him.

You did good!

Hi Honey ~

Wow, I just got back from a business trip and I popped on here to catch up with everyone's stories and I have to say I'm amazed at your post! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I think this is the healthiest post you've ever made to date!

You were correct not to run over at 1am. If your H wants someone to warm his bed at 1am he has to do the work to be a married man living at home!

Some of your boundaries WILL be LBs to him. That's the problem with an alcoholic....a needy, afraid codependent enables their disease by meeting their unreasonable selfish demands.

You are going to have to stop talking about AA. He is going to reject AA and you every single time until he hits rock bottom and is ready for it. Until then, its only an unnecessary LB on your part.

Continue being calm and reasonable. "No, I won't come over tonight at 1am, but please feel free to join us for church and brunch tomorrow" is a perfect response.

His response to your painful recovery from a car accident is pretty typical of alcoholic selfishness. Nothing you can do about that. Just continue to set boundaries for you, and meet his needs when his requests are fair.

Make your OWN home a nice place to be - part of that means keeping an organized, reasonable schedule where children are not yanked out of bed at 1am and dragged across town because a drunk man is suffering the consequences of his own actions.

Make your home an attractive option and keep drawing boundaries. Good for you Honey!

Honey,
You were absolutely right not to go over to his house at 1am. There is no place in Marriage Builders that says, hey, when your wayward, separated, not to mention drunk spouse calls and wants a little company after the bars close, you better jump on it.

Nope no way is that Marriagebuilders.

Relate , as you've been told by many, many posters, you fail to grasp the difference between a betrayed spouse who has Just Found Out/Early Plan A and someone like Honey who has been dealing with infidelity, separation for well over a year. Big difference. Her response is healthy, shows self-respect, and is quite reasonable, quite within marriage building.

Everyone- I apologize if I miss your name... H4Future, MaggieRose, PQ, BR, Lor, and more...

Thanks a million for the support, it feels so good to say NO to his craziness...

He, ws, just came over and had a bit of a fit over my dusty house, he has allergies.. I do need to dust... but hey , the house is looking better... I have been sick for days. - I do think it works to say no to us going over there...

Not to mention he is having a fit, my Dad offered to take older son hunting for first time, now none of us.. me or h is a big fan, but this is TX... all the boys at school are going and my son has been asking my dad to take him. I think ws is feeling a bit out of control, screaming, I only get to see kids every other wkend, and next wkend is mine, and he can't go... ! But then he decided he could, but sd that this might be the last time he allows such a thing! He started to stomp off angrily... at this... saying my parents are controlling his life. I sd., they are just trying to help... he wants to go hunting... I sd, maybe you can go too? He sd, NO WAY. He can't stand my parents since he left me.

He mowed the yard. I requested this when we talked this morning, and he actually did it... he also... offered to come back and trim the bushes... WHAT??? Who is this man.. he once before offered to come help me with my fence falling down, but my dad beat him to it... well not that he really tried.. he says he came by...- and tried but I did not have the tools out..

He got a bit sweaty, so the original plan to fix my computer didn't happen, he sd he will look at it later for me... Also brought me some ink? He was going to the computer store the other day and asked if I needed anything, I sd ink... Is this the old H??? NOT QUITE.. but he is being nicer.

WS also found out tonight I sold precious futon of his that has been in garage for yrs... He noticed it was gone and sd where is it? I sd I had to sell it, I needed the money... just a brief look of anger.. I had been dreading telling him.

He gave me some money, not enough, but some and left... He says it is half of what he has now... as far as money.

I had offered a dinner to ws tonight with a free dinner coupon I have for steak... so I think we are going to meet.. he is suppossed to call me and let me know...

He didn't bring clothes to change into . He was complaining earlier tonight on the phone his clothes are getting shabby and he has no jeans... etc. etc. Well, he has no money for clothes the way he is living.... I was always buying him clothers and making sure he looked nice.. this same man yelled at me if his shirt was not ironed... big LB if you ask me..

He is looking older, so am I... It has been a stressful yr. I am hoping as I take better care of me, I will start to look younger! WOrk outs and diet!

Thanks for being here again, I really appreciate all your support as I say NO to the crazies and YES to acceptable behavior...

Lightbulbs are going off, and I am not losing him by asking to be treated right... I was afraid to stand up to him... and wanted to do whatever he wanted just to try to fix this... but it wasnt working for ME...

I have decided I don't want him back the way he has been acting.. if he returns to the man that would bend over backwards for me, than maybe??? I have decided I can live without him, and I think he has noticed.

Thanks again.

Honey

Honey ~

Your parents are an issue that he does have a legitimate gripe about.

Let your parents help - on YOUR time. But don't let them intrude on his time. He has a right to be upset about it.

Be sure to be appreciative and gracious about his help in the yard, around the house and financially. "Thank you for mowing the lawn Jim, it looks great, you did a wonderful job, and I appreciate not having to do it, etc" - "Thank you so much for the money Jim, I know you are strapped, so it is very much appreciated and helps me alot!"

Thanks BR,

Need to add thanks to KK, Just a Wifey also...
I appreciate the support.. it makes me feel great that others are rooting me along... ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

BR- I do understand, my parents are ALWAYS around and always available.. I don't think my dad meant to interfere, and it did not have to be next weekend.. he just offered... I don't have my parents on the wkend schedule, etc. We were asking Jim if this would be ok this one time? He blew his top a little... says kids should do stuff with my parents on my wkends.. well I can see his right.. he sd you get the other 5 days of the week always!!!

I am glad he is noticing the kids aren't around.

I find the whole thing ridiculous- his wkend, my wkend, WHY? OK- I remember, I don't have to like this situation , but I can like me in it.

I will thank him too, getting ready to go now... fixing my hair, etc.. but still waiting to see.. we might not go.. as he is calling me when he is ready? I don't trust him yet.

Thanks for the support br - Honey

<small>[ November 10, 2002, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: Honey ]</small>

Yikes! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

posted by pod person a.k.a Honey
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Lightbulbs are going off, and I am not losing him by asking to be treated right... I was afraid to stand up to him... and wanted to do whatever he wanted just to try to fix this... but it wasnt working for ME...

I have decided I don't want him back the way he has been acting.. if he returns to the man that would bend over backwards for me, than maybe??? I have decided I can live without him, and I think he has noticed.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is not Honey...this is a pod person that has taken over her body and mind! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Could it really be her? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> This is the type of attitude from you that may actually get him to Plan A his own tush off rather than the usual enabling that you've offered him in the past. Keep it up.

I have to agree with BR regarding interference with parenting time.

posted by BR </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Let your parents help - on YOUR time. But don't let them intrude on his time. He has a right to be upset about it.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">posted by pod person, a.k.a. Honey

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He blew his top a little... says kids should do stuff with my parents on my wkends.. well I can see his right.. he sd you get the other 5 days of the week always!!!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It sounds like his time is very limited with the children. Activities with the children should be planned AROUND his parenting time. If Grand Dad can reschedule the outing then WS gets his parenting time and the boy gets outing with Grandad...everybody's happy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

tagging off <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

((Honey))
I just wanted to tell you YOUR DOING AWESOME...I'M PROUD OF YOU GIRL!!!!
Big hugs*

Wow! I think that's good for you, Honey! Stay strong...

And I also agree with the others, relate do your MB research... on codependency and the purpose of plans A & B...

Deleted.

<small>[ November 11, 2002, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: relate ]</small>

Just wanted to add... the futon has been taking up space in my garage for a long time - I have given him other things he claims are his for his place, and he has his own futon over there, he got at his new house, inherited from his first house.. so he says...

He doesn't pay child support... or irregularly, due to having no money.. due to irresponsible behavior and alcoholism... and I think he understood I need the money.

As for being married to my parents, now that attack stinks. My parents offer a lot to my kids, and my dad is responding to my son and I's request that he take our son to do something his Dad can't do, that my son really wants to do.

My parents are reasonable, respnsible , loving people who as kind family members help out and love their grandchildren>>... My Dad does not know my ws schedule with the kids, nor do I think he needs a calendar... he simply offered to do something with my son on a wkend he had already scheduled to visit relatives in east texas at some property out there.... My dad is not insisting, etc. -but made an offer to fulfill a request I made on behalf of my son's request.

My son does not get to do normal stuff with his alcoholic dad, I have even been considering getting him a 'big brother', with the bb, bs program, but putting it off , in hopes he is getting what he neesd from other family members.. and in hopes dad will become normal again... soon enough... Dad is unavailable to take our son to do this kind of stuff.. no money, too busy drinking, etc. He rarely has enough dollars to take son to a movie lately... or buy food for that matter.... SHould my son suffer? and do nothing like the other boys his age?

Relate, I really don't need your attacks... YOu have gotten a response because they are untrue and they are mean. Are you here to hurt people?

I do not appreciate your sarcasm as I know lots of people around here are beginning to say too....

BA- Glad you think I may get ws to plan a me... he is actually being WAY NICER at least today, I think it is that he has obviously wanted contact with me all along, but when he could get away with it....

He was blaming and raging at me over his anger inside... NOW< I won't take it... I have also dropped R and OW talk, which sends him through the roof, so this is helping. Noticing he has a temptation to get mean, or verbally abusive, but I think he now knows.. I will just go away if he is not nice....

I was afraid that he would go to another ow... the maid scared me to death... well made me sick... but I was being nice, and drawing boundaries when he got with her... I had refused to clean his house, and that is how it all happened- she was easy, cleaned at night and he was drunk. Not that he loved her, he was sick, or is.

I hate it, and I am fearful.. I knew that my strong boundaries.. i.e. kicking him out of our house for beligerent and drunken cruel behavior... making him go to a hotel, etc..... had made him think;//// why do I want this? and I felt quilty... I had raged and been angry at him over his drunken cruelty.... to me! I had reacted...

Now I am not reacted back angrily or demading, I am being sweet and kind, but only playing by my 'rules'. I used to be this way... when I wasn't his wife... I was always nice, in fact I wasn't sure he would make a good h, per his wild ways... but he convinced me.... after a strong pursuit... I think he knew I wasn't sure... and he rose to the ocassion and became a better man...

I have known him since high school and I remember how he would clean his room for me.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , he lined up his shoes for my visits... cute!

But anyway, I am sleep y again now.. woke up thirsty and thought I would ck in. Will grab a few z's before work...

Thanks to those of you that are supportive...
Relate, please try to see where we are coming from.. some of your comments are very stinging.

Honey