I just wrote this totally long post which somehow i lost........it was mostly just rambling anyway. My wif'te just told me yesterday of her affair last week where she visited her ex boyfriend in Puerto Rico with another girlfriend. I havent sleep since she told me. There was the half hour i was asleep and 20 minutes of that sleep was this terrible dream that i couldn't wake up from.
My wife and i have been thru counseling before. Not for affairs, thank god. I loved this woman more than i loved myself. Whenver we fought in the past, i was the one who fought for the marriage. She would threaten divorce when things weren't going her way. When we would fight she would say the meanest things possible in order to get me to cry. I always thought that was screwed up. I have never said divorce, not even now. She has heated tirades and freaks out. A week before she had the affair, I picked her up from the airport. I was an hour late. She threw the flowers i bought in the back seat and went on a 40 diatribe about how useless i am and how i lied about being late. Her reaction to the airprort thing was about ten times worse than my reaction to the affair.
I loved my wife. Her safety, comfort and happiness is what i lived for. Why wasn't my love and attention enough for her. We've been to counseling before and in the 3.5 years we've been together i've fought for the marriage. I never thought of divorce or ending the relationship. i've been the strong one because she admits she is emotionally weak.
For the first time in our marriage, i don't want to fight for it. I am not the last bastion of hope for reconciling us. I see it as a good sign that my wife is posting here. She went through a lot about whether to tell me. I have a lot of tuff decisions to make.
Can I forgive?
Do I want to do the work necessary to fix this?
Even if I do fix this, do I want a tainted marriage. I made a pledge to god to forsake my wife before all others and she broke that bond.

I don't even want her to read this because i'm afraid she might give up hope. She says she wants to change her personality and put me first. I don't know. I don't know if she can be strong enough for the both of us because she hasn't done that yet in our marriage.
Am I going to want her after all this is settled. I held up my end of the bargain. i really did. I don't know if we go through all this work, will i want the finished product. I don't want to lie and say that i will take her back. I don't even know if it is in my best interest to take her back. I don't know if she's strong enough for the both of us, knowing its possible that I might be able to forgive her, but not be able to reconcile.
This is terrible....I'm so confused and tired.

Mr BJfly,

It is good to see you posting. I read your W's post. Seems like there is a lot to work on in your M. Sometimes the worst causes us to reevaluate and appreciate the what is best in our lives. If this horrible event can be turned into a postiive lesson from which you both can learn and grow together, then it will be worth the pain and effort you are feeling right now.

There is an emotional needs questionnaire and even if you just don't feel like being with her now, take it. You will find there is a lot to learn about yourself.

As for what you should do for her.....well you are in pain and may not be able to comfort her. Let her do that for you. Let her show you whether she is worth sharing your life with and in time you will be able to share the same.

It is up to you but right now you don't sound like you are in a strong enough emotional state to be making life changing decisions. Read the book surviving an affair. Also read his needs/her needs both are by Dr P Harley.

You will find that many of your feelings are shared here as well. In a sense you have it easier than many of us here you are dealing wtih a bad attitude or a WS in denial. You are not dealing with a pscyo OP whose goal is to wreck your family.....

Keep reading and posting here. If you can both do phone counseling with Steve or Jennifer, it would be helpful. They are quite good.

Hope this helps and welcome to MB.

L.

MrBjayfly

Welcome to MB(Marriage Builders) and to the club nobody should be a member of. All the things you are feeling, most of us BS(betrayed spouses) have felt in the past, and even though my marriage ended in divorce (read my story bellow) it doesn't mean that yours will too. The pain you're going thru is unfortunately inevitable, but it will start to subside over time once you and your WW(wayward wife) start to deal with the aftermath of her A(affair) in a constructive fashion thru counseling with a marriage oriented professional.

Nobody will argue with you if you decide to divorce your W(wife) or not because that is your prerogative, but I would urge you to please let some time pass before you make any life altering decision. Decisions made in the heat of the moment often tend to come back to haunt us. You would be wise to wait until you get a grip on your emotions and to let your head evaluate whether your M(marriage) is or is not worth fighting for. Many of us have availed ourselves to the therapeutic use of doctor prescribed anti-depressants and they have made a world of difference in helping to cope with the emotional storm that an A(affair) brings.

In defense of your W(wife), she has struggled with remorse, shame, and fear after she committed the unthinkable. She has debated whether it was fair to you to tell you about her A or take the secret to the grave. She has told all of us here that you are a wonderful man that she is undeserving of. She has stated remorse and shame for what she did and has wracked her head in trying to understand why she did what she did. Compared to many other WS(wayward spouses) in her shoes, she is more deserving of a second chance than they are because she is NOT in the fog (infatuated with her lover and wishing to end the M). I know it sounds like a poor consolation to say that many BS(betrayed spouses) would like to trade places with you but it is the truth. You and your W have an excellent prognosis and opportunity to rebuild a better M for both of you, if you take the time to learn about the MB methodology and apply it's principles. I urge you to buy and read the Harley books 'Surviving an affair''His needs Her needs' and 'Love busters'.

I'll repeat the same thing I said to your W, you are not alone we are here to support and comfort you thru this most devastating time in your life. Please take advantage of it because it will help you enormously.

God bless both of you.

Hello MrBjay,

Welcome to Marriage builders. I am so very sorry that you are in this mess. Please do not make any rash decisions where your marriage is concerned. If you are the things your wife says you are, and I think you are or you would not be here now, then give this site a chance. But, Not as much for your marriage as for yourself.

You have a chance that most betrayed spouses(BS) would die for. That being that your wife came here, was brave enough to tell her story to a bunch of other BS. That could not have been an easy thing. She asked for advice...she listened to that advice...she told you the truth. She took a huge chance coming to a website that is made up of mostly BS. She could have been torn apart by others who have experienced what you are now.

The thing is she knows what she has done and seems to be tortured by it. She seems to want to repair the marriage. That is something we BS would die for.

Go to the main page of this site. Read all the articles. Learn all you can. Become an even better you. Then sit down and decide where you want to go with your marriage. You don't have to decide tonight, or tomorrow. Take some time for your emotions to settle down.

The short of my story is that my wife had multiple affairs. I hated her on each d-day. I hated myself even more. What had I done to fail my wife, that she could be capable of having affairs? I wasn't perfect, I'm still not. But, my marriage is in recovery. Hard work? You bet. But something beautiful and better should emerge from living through this. For both of us.

Again, my advice right now is simply for you to take it slow. No rash decisions.

Your wife does have to be strong. But you must not force her to be strong enough for the both of you. Perhaps at times she will need to be the strength of the marriage and at other times you will have to be.

Please, keep posting here. Ask questions of others who have been there. They(we)will, at times, be the strength for the both of you.

I am sorry you must deal with this.

jd

Nice to see you here! You have a courageous wife.
She is willing to fight for what is right. She made a mistake. We all have. It doesn't mean she doesn't love you.

You can forgive. You will never forget. You 2 have seen the worst in each other and with proper help you can have a much stronger marriage and bond.

I wish my wife had given me this chance. Please give her the chance. See a good marriage counselor right away. If she didn't love you she probably wouldn't have told you. It takes a strong person to tell their spouse what she did.

God Bless

MrBjayfly...First, welcome to marriagebuilders, it is a wonderful site. There is a lot of information which can be very helpful...wherever your marriage is going.

Second, get yourself to a medical doctor and take his/her advice. You need to rest. The emotional strain you are under is horridous. It will overwhelm you more times then you'll want to admit. You'll feel emotions that you don't understand, as you've never felt them before. You'll go from one emotion to another in a split second with no warning (ie. crying to rage) and you will not always be capable of controling them. THIS IS NORMAL.

Few of us knew right after d-day (discovery day) if we wanted to save our marriages. You're in a state of shock, disbelief, anger, and great soul-searing pain. You're world as you knew it is gone. Now is not the time to make a GOOD decision. Yes, you can make a decision, but it will not be done with forethought and consideration for what is best for you in the long run.

You're correct, the WW (wayward Wife) will need to do most of the work in the beginning. She'll find the strength. That is her worry...it should not be yours. Right now you keep your focus on your needs...the need to be comforted, the need for reassurance.

Your W does love you. I have no doubt of this at all. I've posted to her often in just the few days she's been battling with her overwhelming guilt. She hates herself and her act of betrayal. She wanted to deny what she had done to not only you, but to herself. Yet, she knew she loved you and she took the advice...and very hard advice it was, to end the lies and to tell you what a terrible thing she had done. THAT TOOK GUTS.

Very few WS (wayward spouses) ever confess to an affair unless thier backs are to the wall. While I am sure you don't see this as a "gift"...it is. She gave you honesty. She gave you the truth. She gave you the option to make informed decisions as to what you want in your life/marriage.

You CAN make a better marriage. While going to counseling for guidence over the betrayal, you can also address those issues that were in the marriage before the betrayal. I know she'd like more attention and affection from you...it seems you need her to be more in control of her everyday emotions and learn some good coping tools to use when things go "wrong". I am sure there are others...there always is.

You ARE tired and confused. We, the BS (betrayed spouses), have all been there. We understand. Get to a doctor and get some advice on anti-depression meds and some sleeping aid if necessary.

No matter where your healing path is leading you...know that you can survive this. You can overcome the betrayal. Rather your marriage continues or not...you can come out of this dark tunnel a strong man.

MrBjayfly,

I am so sorry that you find a need to be here. I know the pain you are in, the questions, the uncertainty. I, like so many here, have been through this before.. too many times.

Right now this is all about you. You need to take very good care of yourself. As you have already experienced you will have trouble sleeping, this could last for weeks or months. Eating will be another problem. Many of us have gone through what we call the infidelity diet. If you find it hard to eat, at least take vitamins. Please take very good care of yourself. Many BS and WS go into deep depressions after d-day. You may want to see your doctor to let him/her know what you are going through as you may need an adjustment on your meds. Only after you have your feet on the ground can you really decide what you want to do about your marriage. I know it sounds like I am mothering you. I’m only passing along with others told me after d-day. I only half heartedly paid heed and have been paying for it. My health has suffered since d-day, 3/21/01.

Your wife will also need to take very good care of herself too. She is already in quite a tail spin.

I wanted to share with you revelations I’ve had over the last 21 months. Like you I struggled about staying in my marriage. We’d only been married for 9 months when I discovered that my husband had been having several affairs the entire time I knew him. Upon discovery I felt that I did not know him, that I’d had a horrible trick played on me, and well… I was afraid of him. But he, like your wife, was horrified at what he’d done. I wanted him to leave. He wanted to rebuild our marriage. At the time I was too emotionally distraught to do anything. So he took care of me. He became both the source of my pain and the source of my comfort. He read the MB material and Plan A’d me back into our marriage.

At some point.. about 3-4 months after d-day I decided to give our marriage one shot. I realized that no matter what I did I would suffer a lot of pain. If I left him it would hurt terribly as I love him and I would miss him for a very long time.. if not forever. If I stayed I’d have to face the mess we had and find a way through the pain. In the end I decided that I’d married him ‘in sickness and in health, in good times and in bad times’. While I do not think that all marriages should be saved at all costs, I did feel that I owed our marriage one shot at rebuilding it.

I do view his affairs as sickness. Or rather self-medicating. He was 46 when we married. His ex-wife had left him and their children to live with her OM. He did not have a history of cheating. In fact he is a very strong Catholic. But I think that the last couple of years of his previous marriage, and his wife’s several affairs and eventually leaving him for OM devastated his self esteem. So the affairs were a way of him to self-medicate, to feel like he was a man of some value. They had nothing to do with me. He was a good man who fell from grace with himself. Today he is, once again himself.

I am very glad that I decided to stay. Before d-day I was happy in our relationship but knew that something was not quite right. Once I knew of the affairs, and we dug deep to find out their source we have been about to rebuild a much stronger marriage. Our relationship has grown my leaps and bounds. We live by the MB concepts. They are simple and wonderful. I believe that the silver lining of his affairs is that we have a much better relationship then we would have had before.

Is this relationship flawed because of his affairs? All I can tell you is that it was more flawed before I discovered his affairs.

Yes, I do still have bad days. I am still struggling some with getting my self-esteem back as it was shattered by his affairs. But it will come. They say it takes 2 – 5 years to recover from an affair. Time, I believe will take care of it. And my H is wonderfully supportive. When I’m low all I have to do is tell him and he helps me through it.

Now that I’ve rattled on far to much about me, I wanted to address some of what you said.

Whenever we fought in the past, i was the one who fought for the marriage. She would threaten divorce when things weren't going her way. When we would fight she would say the meanest things possible in order to get me to cry. … She has heated tirades and freaks out. A week before she had the affair, I picked her up from the airport. I was an hour late. She threw the flowers i bought in the back seat and went on a 40 diatribe about how useless i am and how i lied about being late.

It does sound like there have been some problems all along for the two of you. This affair is the wake up call for both of you. The behavior you describe here is way over the top. In MB terms these are called love busters. They are borderline emotionally abusive.

In another one of your wife’s posts she says that you do not agree with the idea of unmet emotional needs being the cause of affairs. You are right.. they are not the cause of affairs. People often misread MB that way.

Affairs are caused by people not protecting their own vulnerabilities. Yes, unmet needs can cause a person to be more vulnerable. But a person has a choice in how they are going to hand that vulnerability.

Meeting a spouses needs, according to MB concepts, is a way of building and maintaining a passionate marriage and affair proof the marriage. Believe me the concepts work when both spouses are on board with them.

Your wife’s affair has nothing to do with your not meeting her needs. While the both of your share responsibility for the state of your marriage, she and she alone has responsibility for her affair. I say this not to be mean and judgmental.. but a person can only make the necessary changes when they realize what they have responsibility for.

The part of your text that I quoted points out something that many here have found out, and that Harley also says. The spouse who has an affair is usually the taker in the relationship. They are often the one not meeting the BS’s needs. That was the case in my marriage and it may very well be an issue in yours. From what you and she have said, it certainly sounds like a possibility.

You are right that your wife is the one who will have to carry the responsibility for the marital recovery for a while. She is very upset by her actions.. But she may be the only one right now capable of pulling both of you through this.

While I know the knowledge of her affair hurts you. I am very glad that she has told you as you have the right to know what is going on in your life and the right to now decide what you will do with the rest of your life.

I hope, and will pray, that the two of you will work this out and build a marriage successful beyond your dreams. May husband and I have, many other do too.

Gonna give it to ya straight Mr BF,

I took too long to forgive, I really did. When I told my stbx that I was really, TRULY letting go of his first (known) affair and was ready to REALLY work at being in a great marriage once again, it was already too late.

I have a lot of the same stuff in my history that people here have already said. My stbx had had one affair which he readily confessed, but it took me a long time to get to a point where I could feel that I could truly forgive. But by the time I told him, HE had felt my lack of support and total commitment, and he strayed yet again. NOT that I am saying your W will do this. But for me, it ended the marriage. ONLY because he left me for her. They are still together.

Do you want this scenario for yourself? No, I bet you do not. So how do you forgive? You do a lot of soul searching, but the most important thing is that you recognise and accept your part in your wife's getting to that point in the first place. YES, she had the choice to protect your marriage, but what was it that made the walls just that bit easier to push down? You MUST forgive YOURSELF before you can forgive her, it is imperative.

Do an internet search on forgiveness. It enlightened me a lot. I was educated, sure, but known to hold a grudge if someone did me wrong. Now I know better.

You will get through this, but not by sitting idly by (in immense pain, as I KNOW you are feeling right now) and waiting for time to create a distance. You have to educate yourself on the human frailty of emotion. Your's as well as your wife's.

Read as much as you can on this site, and try to apply the concepts to your marriage. Do the questionnaires, TALK about what you both need.....do the hard stuff and be honest with each other. We lacked that in the end, and I think it allowed the demise of our marriage. I hope it does not happen to you, because divorce is by far the hardest thing I have ever encountered in my life, including the death of my brother in 2000.

I wish you both the very best of luck.

Love and light,

Jacky

Mr Bjayfly-

Welcome. Although I am very sorry for the reason you came to be here, this is a good place to start rebuilding. If you and your W work hard at rebuilding, you may well find that you end up with a marriage that is better than it was before the affair. Read "Surviving an Affair" and the materials on how to learn to quit hurting each other thru "Lovebusters" and do the best possible job of meeting each other's needs. Better yet, call the counseling center here and let an expert coach you thru the first few steps of getting on the rebuilding path...I think the couple of sessions my H and I did here were much, much better than the counselor we'd tried before.

I know you are in a horribly painful spot now. The question is, what will come out of that pain? I truly hope it will be good things for you...

Kathi

Let me add my voice to those above.

We cannot answer for you whether you personally can forgive or can recover your specific marriage. No one knows this.

But what we can say with 100% assurance is that if you don't try, you will not succeed.

That was how I chose my MB name.

Your marriage is.....

worthatry

I think my hubby might have described me in somewhat of a simliar light a few years ago. Childish outbursts instead of adult conversations and lots of blame and guilt trips when things didn't go my way. People can and do change...and people can learn from their mistakes and NEVER NEVER repeat them. I promise this...to myself as much as to you or my husband.

Hang in there MrBjayfly...it's a tough road ahead for recovery, but it isn't any easier to toss away the marriage. Your wife showed some real love and concern by telling you...moreso than if she had continued to hide it. She may not know how to express her love to you the way you would like, but it's evident it is really there.

Dear Mrbjfly -
I just thought I would tell you that you weren't alone on 11/13/02. I, too found out about my ws and his ema. Fortunately, he still loves me and our 2 teens and wants to stay with our family. We live in a small community with tons of friends that would totally be blown away so I am glad we are going to try. However, he hasn't told ow yet and I can't wait until that is over.
This is second ema - first was 13 years ago. I can't believe it's happening again. Anyway, I just wanted you to know you weren't alone on that day and I know I can't believe it's only been 2 days. Seems like a lifetime!!!

MrBjayfly,
Welcome. this place can open your mind on things you about to experienced. I bet you think it is bad dream and you want to wake up. I been where you are right now 5month ago. It is nightmare.
It will be moments when you will experience such a pain that you will think you can't tolerate it.
Guess what, I believe now that you as a person can adjust and live at any conditions. Emotional pain is one of conditions. You will not be able to avoid it, you will go through it screaming.
My advice to you, don't look for answers from your wife, at least right now. You won't find or accept any. You are in pain and your soul is screaming. It will get better with time. Nothing you can do to make it better by yourself. I tried hard. You will have live like that for a while. It is hell, and it will make you different person. Nobody will be able to help. Just vent it here, but have your expectations low. Eventually you will get exausted and at that time you will have peace on your mind once in a while. Take time to learn about yourself. It is you who will take you out of this emotional mess. http://www.coping.org/
is good website to learn.
I am going through this mess and it is worst experience of my life. I can tell you that you will feel much worse than now in 4 weeks. I lost 20lb and did not sleep for 2 month. Then you will get better. I don't know how long it will take. Anybody? I am on 5 month now. it is not fun, but I am fuctional. Don't think about fixing things, becasue you will not be able to right now. I taking care of myself: sport, sleep, pool, friends. no feeling. feels dead, but it is better than pain. Are feeling gonna return?
don't know men...........Ask people on the board
for now think about you (not wife, not marrige) only you. I know, pain is untollerable, but beleive me it won't break you. keep it in mind.
It won't break you. Once you recover you will think about other things.
Any questions, I am here for...

Mrbjayfly,

A year ago this Sunday, my W asked me if I would give her a D. I found out she was envolved with an OM that she worked very close to. I had always thought that love would conquer all. That my love for my W would be enough to keep an A from happening. After the first 2 A's she confessed to, I was determined to get it right and show her how much I loved her and she promised never to do it again. I believed her. However, we didn't continue with MC and never got to the part that helped us to determine what it was that we needed from each other to keep us in the M. I went off trying to meet my W's needs. I stopped playing sports, I stayed home with our son so she could have the weekends to do what she wanted (shop get together w/ friends etc.). I felt I gave up so much of the things I always wanted to do for my W to save our M. She never wanted to talk about the A because she was so ashamed of of it. But I found out that everything I did didn't mean anything to her b/c it wasn't a top EN of her's. For years I gave up stuff for her and it never meant anything. With all of my best intentions, I did what I thought would please her not what she thought would please her.

bjayfly if you're reading this; You're H need to be told what is important to you. Make sure you aren't throwing out the Love Busters (LBs). And Mrbj... you need listen and really hear what she's saying. You also (I know it's hard for us guys, we feel like wimps), but you need to tell her how you feel when she LBs. bjayfly.... He's not a weak man for telling you how he feels. He's opening his heart to you.

Now I now know pretty much what EN's I wasn't meeting but OM was. My M is on it's way to recovery. Knowing what her top EN's are and meeting them was very important.

At first my W did many things to purposely hurt me so I would D her. Your W isn't doing that. My W told me up until Sept., that she had no feelings of love for me. Your W is telling you that she loves you. The others are right in that many of us wish our spouses had come to us like your W is coming to you. She seems like she really wants to work on the M. My W really didn't want to work on our M at all. I did a Plan A and she has come realize that OM isn't the better choice.

My point is, You two, inspite of the A, have an awful lot going for you that many here didn't have. Their M's are better or becoming better than they ever thought possible. Many of us here are finding out what real communication is. What real intimacy is and what real love is about.

As weird as it sounds, I envy you and your W. Granted there is much pain involved, but you don't have to overcome the fog of denial or your W rewriting your M history to fit her fantasy.

I also found out that love doesn't conquer all. It endures all. I just needed to find out what I was capable of enduring and whether my W is worth enduring it. You know what? She is. I kind'a got the feeling from you that your W is too.

I don't want to tell you what you should do. I just thought my experience would help you in your decision.

Be there for each other and help each other through this. We'll be here for both of you. We'll be praying for both of you too. Blessing two you.

S&C

MrBjayfly,

Welcome, as all the others have said. We are all here to help. Take your time reading through this site and do you best to order the books that folks are recommending. You and your wife also need to get into counseling.

This is the worst ride you will ever take. This depends on you though. Your wife is very remorseful and is wanting to fix what was wrong and what she did. Lots of us didn't get that chance or took some time to get to that. Vent here and ask us BS what we went through. How we can help. This does work! I am also a BS and am now into recovery pretty good now. It took my wife some time for her to come out of her fog. This is something your wife is not in. Take advantage of this soon. Right now understand that what you do, see, feel is normal.

Let us know and good luck!

Mr. BJF,

I too am one of the lucky ones. My WH decided to tell me about his affair. Compared to what you'll read on other threads, we have it better than most.

Timeline - d-day was 3/7/02, my first counseling session with Steve Harley was mid-April. I was on the rollercoaster from he//. The pain was nearly unbearable at that time. The 1st glimmer of hope/peace came from listening to SH at 1st counseling. From my notes here's what he said.

"The cause of affairs is the WS FAILURE TO PROTECT. Meaning the WS failed to protect themself, you, and the marriage from an affair. It is an issue of choice. WS chose to have an affair. It is individually the WS's responsibility."

"Regarding emotional needs. Lots of people don't have their emotional needs met; but most do not choose to have an affair".

It is the WS responsiblity to figure out why they had an affair; and with coaching from SH develop a recovery plan to insure that it never happens again.

The recovery plan that SH coached my WH through was healing for me. Healing in the sense that it is not just words; it's actions that he lives to show me that he is trustworthy.

The emotional needs & love busters questionnaires came up during that appointment, but my notes are sketchy because I was so emotionally stunned.

Counseling with SH has been the best course of action for H & I. We tried following MB philosophy without the counseling and we failed miserably. We needed a coach.

We;re close to ending our coaching sessions becuase we're almost ready to be each other's coach. It's been rough, especially for WH. SH is especially good with them; but he also holds their feet to the fire as well. My H didn't always appreciate that; and threatened to quit counseling. Since counseling with SH was a condition of recovery for me, he stuck with it.

I'm not completely convinced that we'll make it 100%. Our success depends on H's willingness to continue living his recovery plan.

Personally I have learned so much I never knew I needed to learn. I learned what "is my responsibility" in our relationship, and that insuring "protection" to my H from the acts the Harleys describe as love busters. Until I learned how to protect H from my disrespectful judgments, and other love busters, he wasn't "safe" to be with me - not with the full-blown anger of a BS.

It's been worth it to me to go through recovery because it give me the opportunity to learn things I've needed to learn my whole life. Whether I will continue in this M and use my new knowledge or take it to another relationship is undetermined at this point. Regardless I am a better person, for having gone through this experience. It is one of the many "gifts of grief" I have received.

My hope for you is that you take your "gifts of grief", and learn what is your responsibility; and be a better person for having lived through the experience.

I am so grateful for the kind, generous people on this forum; and also for the Harley family who provide this website free of charge to all of us! CSue

I just wanted to tell all you how wonderful you all are. This has been a nutty couple of days. To bring you up to date, i've been able to sleep and eat a little bit. The w and i have been talking and wanting to work things out. sometimes i feel stupid for going along and forgiving her. She also just disclosed all the gory details about her week of weakness. i just feel like i don't know her anymore.
She is doing everything i've asked and more to make me feel better. We start MC on Monday and thats awesome. She tells me she doesn't love the om and that is why she is here with me. "why else would she go through all this pain if she wanted to be with him," is what she said.
I am so grateful to all of you and your posts. My wife and i have been reading the posts together, sometimes crying at how insightful, caring and right on you all are. I mean, you don't even know us and you're helping me in ways you can't even imagine. Or maybe you've been helped by others.
I really do feel lucky that my wife is proving her love for me and fighting for the marriage. My normal MO before the A was to avoid conflicts, try to put the best face on things and problem solve.
Some of those traits are applicable to this situation, others are direct opposites. I honestly felt for 31 years that if an individual strays and makes a mistake, that it is the WS burden to bear this mistake. I also resolutely believed that i would leave my spouse if they betrayed me in this way because i would never be able to forgive and forget. The marriage would be ruined like a priceless mirror that had a rock thrown into it or mud splattered on it. Sure you can look at the reflection, but will you like what you see.
My wife is doing everything she can. She listens, she comforts she hugs. We even almost went skiing this weekend. But that would be a farce. Its been three days and during a nice, reconciliation dinner she intimated (on my proding) more details about the A that made it feel like i just found out for the first time. We went right back to where we started, oh my god i don't know if this is worth it, why did this happen to me.
My natural instincts are to heal and make things easier for my wife. I do want her to know i love her. I don't want to torture her. I have always been the strong one, and even though i felt that i could never stay in a tainted marriage, its a different story once it happens to you.
This is still the woman I fell in love with, shared interests with and is my best friend. I am lucky that she is fighting for me and the marriage.
This has been the craziest trip. I gain strength from your statements and your posting. My wife and i met on the internet, and know our marriage is being saved by the internet. Thank god for Al Gore!!! Psych..
Please keep posting, its really helping.

MrBJayFly

First off, welcome to MB. It is the saddest welcome that you can have because we all know why you are here, but it is a warm welcome from many a kindred soul here, none-the-less.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She would threaten divorce when things weren't going her way. When we would fight she would say the meanest things possible ....... She has heated tirades and freaks out......Her reaction to the airport thing was about ten times worse than my reaction to the affair.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is interesting. Mrs BJF sounded so similar to my wife in her postings that I am almost not surprised to read this. My wife too has had a long history with me of tirades and complete mental ungluing over things that I perceived as &#8220;small potatoes&#8221;. And, if you compared my reaction to D-Day and how I have been since then, it doesn&#8217;t even come close to her reactions over simple things like a dropped pan off the oven! I mean, it seemed to me that no one could possibly survive in life reacting so violently to everything that happened around them. And anger? Whoa boy! She would let loose on a topic and never let it go, but God forbid I should finally reach the end of my rope and unleash my temper! Oh no, that was not tolerated. I would get shutdown fast. So I feel like it has been a one-way street in that respect. My wife would also resort to all kinds of name calling of the most vile filthy language and insults that you can imagine. It was like watching the Exorcist right in front of my own eyes! And divorce threats? I have heard divorce threats from as early as 2 months after we married until today. I have lost count as to how many times she has threatened divorce. I told her one time that I will never threaten her with divorce, because if I reach the point where I am ready to divorce, it will just plain happen. No blustering, no posturing, no bluffing. I&#8217;ll just do it.

I attribute a lot of what my wife has said and done as a lack of maturity and a lack of self-control. She has improved over the years and went on Zoloft too, but she is still way more volatile than I am. Your wife may need medication or counseling or even maturity too; you will have to explore with her when you counsel together as to what sets her off and why.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do I want to do the work necessary to fix this?
Even if I do fix this, do I want a tainted marriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am the BS in my situation (Betrayed Spouse) and I have questioned my marriage too. You see, when this happened to me it made me take another hard look at our real differences and compatibilities (or lack thereof). I felt as though I was evaluating whether or not I would "chose" her today as a potential spouse, regardless of the affairs. It&#8217;s been 8 mos. since my D-Day and I am still evaluating! Some days it feels like we are going to make it and that we really can make a renewed marriage out this mess, then other days I wouldn't even bet a thin dime on our chances of survival. I have adopted the "Just Take One Day At A Time" rule and it has really helped me a lot!! I got some good advice from someone in this forum that helped me turnaround in my thinking and he told me this: &#8220;You can always chose to divorce, but you only have one opportunity to try and save your marriage.&#8221; That made me realize that I did not have to decide once-and-for-all what I was going to do with my situation and our marriage right then and there. I stopped focusing on making such a hard and confusing decision and started focusing on loving my wife once again, and things did improve immediately, but again, it is a very hilly road!

From your religious perspective, I can understand your &#8220;tainted&#8221; comment, but when you think about it, everybody is &#8220;tainted&#8221; when they marry these days. I mean, how many virgins are still out there waiting for holy matrimony? But none-the-less, I still know where you are coming from. I have thought to myself, &#8220;Well God may forgive you, but I don&#8217;t have to!&#8221; If you are waiting for a &#8220;feeling&#8221; of forgiveness, that may never come. Forgiveness is more a decision than a feeling. See this:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Based on Philosophical, Traditional (Hebrew, Christian, Islamic, Confucian, and Buddhist traditions, among others), Psychological and Developmental principles. Gleaned from a large survey of readings, professional dialogue, and stories of forgiveness written by volunteers.
1. What it is:
· Moral
It is a response to an injustice (a moral wrong).
It is a turning to the "good" in the face of this wrongdoing.
· Goodwill
Merciful restraint from pursuing resentment or revenge.
Generosity or offering good things such as: attention, time, remembrances on holidays.
Moral Love or contributing to the betterment of the other.
· Paradoxical
It is the foregoing of resentment or revenge when the wrongdoer's actions deserve it and giving the gifts of mercy, generosity and love when the wrongdoer does not deserve them.
As we give the gift of forgiveness we ourselves are healed.
· Beyond duty
A freely chosen gift (rather than a grim obligation).
The overcoming of wrongdoing with good.
2. What it is not:
· Forgetting/Denial
Time passing/ignoring the effects of the wrongdoing.
· Condoning
Nothing that bad happened. It was only this one time. It won't happen again.
· Excusing
The person did this because.....it wasn't really their responsibility.
· Condemning
She/he deserves to know they have wronged me.
"Forgiving" with a sense of moral superiority.
· Seeking Justice or Compensation
Forgiveness is not a quid pro quo deal--it doesn't demand compensation first.
3. Important Distinction:
· Forgiveness: One person's moral response to another's injustice
· Reconciliation: Two parties coming together in mutual respect
· http://www.forgiveness-institute.org/ifi/whatis/definition_of_forgiveness.html
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So really, forgiveness is a gift you give yourself. It helps to free you from torturing yourself or torturing your wayward spouse. It may take time for you to even reach that thought, but do consider it. Forgiveness doesn&#8217;t even mean that you decided to stay married. It is done for its own sake.

So, as you can see here, you are definitely not alone by any means. There are many wonderful people in the MB forum. You will get wonderful advice and support. Oh, make sure you go to all the New Member pages. It will help you understand all the acronyms that are used here and help you get started with the MB Principles. You have a long road ahead of you, regardless of which direction you ultimately decide to go in. But, I can tell you this from personal experience, no matter the outcome, you will be a stronger and wiser person for it. I have changed in so many positive ways since D-Day that I have actually started to look at it as a much needed catalyst in placing me on the road to taking care of myself better and becoming a more healthy individual.

It is so good, though, to see that you are already trying and reconnecting and that your wife is so sincere in her desire to save what you have. I tell you, based on what I have read here in this forum since I joined, you two have a great chance of making this work out. I can just sense it in both of your writings. I pray that this situation miraculously turns your union into something even more precious and stronger than it ever has been.

Good luck to you both and God Bless.

<small>[ November 15, 2002, 09:45 PM: Message edited by: Blind Sided ]</small>

It wasn't a rock dropped upon a mirror, leaving it marred and cracked forever, it was a rock (a very large rock) dropped into a lake, leaving vast ripples which seem so large at the core, getting smaller and smaller as they widen out, until the surface is once again serene and calm.

Dear Mr:
Do you think that in the long run, knowing all the "gory details" is better than not knowing? I think you will just always wonder and the wondering will drive you crazy. I am still waiting for all the "gory details" but I think I will take a cue from you and do some prodding today. Thanks.