i read a few posts concerning gloryb and TOW message board--couldn't help myself--had to go see it for myself. looks like OPs are in just as thick a fog as WSs. i held back the urge to put my 2 cents in (was hard as i am pretty opinionated--ok i have a big mouth <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) just wanted to say that i can't believe the ignorant things that some of these OW actually believe. actually did consider posting--not to just blast people (although maybe that would be enjoyable in a twisted kinda way) but the OWs all seem curious as to what it's like for the MM's W and some of the ones i saw thought we (BW's) are all these pathetic people that can't seem to do anything for ourselves and "have" to have a man. ummm....we are not the ones settling for the crumbs and being someone's "part-timer". i think that all us BS's deserve a pat on the back for all the effort we put into sticking to our promises (marriage vows) even when it's neither deserved nor appreciated by the WS.
sorry for rambling--guess i just needed to vent.

OMG, I too went there today after reading old posts on OW's, I only looked up ols stuff after reading a post comparing a recent poster to an old one, this recent poster told lies and pretended to be BS when in fact she was OW.....You probably know what I am talking about.
Anyway my curiosity got the better of me as it does all BS'S and I just found the whole site disgusting! How the frig you can brag about your exploites when you are running second fiddle and collecting the crumbs is way beyond me. My Hubby and I are way in front at the moment D.Day was 15th Feb and his OW is left in the dust of our relationship, I have actually seen him Vomit when I have mentioned her name, I do not joke, he has......That is the lasting affect she has on him.....I don't believe I ever made him vomit at the mention of MY name and memories of me or us!
We are doing very well and his OW was a very big woman (I am thin, but not anorexic, just cute) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
And my hubby can not deal with visual re visits of this pig that thought she had him hook line and sinker. My hubby was in a desperate situation(Pls read my posts)....IT was there and he needed something......he couldn't even have intercourse because she was suh a turn off!

LOL--i went there after reading the same posts! wish my h was that way over his OW--they are "friends" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> i am somwehat inclined to believe that nothing sexual is going on between them (not sure tho) and i know the "thrill" is gone--he found out she is an atheist and doesn't see or talk to her as much. now if only he would stop it altogether...
rambling again, as usual. going to check out your other posts, i remember seeing some on the above mentioned threads.
Have a good day <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I had been to that site a while back and was amazazed & outraged. It has been interesting to watch a friend of mine who is the OW to a MM. She has given me great insite. The MM wanted to do counseling cuz he was having a hard time about the kids. She got sooo upset that she said allkinds of things ..... like not being to live without him ..... She questioned why he should even go to counseling & not to stay together just for the kids. She also said that there was no reason to try to get back with his wife )BS) cuz she was not affectionate to him now (DUH) and didn't talk to him very much )maybe plan b).
She even called the wife & told her all that was going on. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I have learned so much from her and what not to do. She thinks she has found the love of her life, left her daughter with an addicted BH and now wants to make a new life with this MM who is fence sitting and she can't understand why. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

D.

I went there too!!!!! Next time, call me so we can all ride together!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I read a thread that obviously had a BS posting to it and they were MAD!!! They called their website cops on her and deleted her posts. It was for OW ONLY!!!!!

They do not appreciate our POV. I will never go back there again. I'm glad, that for the most part, we can ALL coexist peacefully on this site.

It was like opening Pandora's box.....
DB

<small>[ December 05, 2002, 07:58 AM: Message edited by: dazedblonde ]</small>

wgtt--wow it must be hard to have a friend doing that after what you've been through. maybe she'll figure it out one day...

db--LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> --yea i noticed that most of em aren't too thrilled about hearing from the wives. it's pathetic, but amusing in a sick way to just see all the ignorance they spew.

I don't think that I could go there and read all of the poison from someone who has no integrity or care for the human heart. Selfish, selfish, selfish!

I found myself feeling sorry for the OW in my H life because I knew that he was "leading them on" and playing out a fantasy. He had no intentions of making any of it real. It was a sick game and I was feeling bad that they were getting hurt. BUT...after they knew about ME and continued to talk to him....they were the sick ones as well. What were they thinking? That he would leave the life he has always wanted with me...NOT!

BS are Angels sent from God and are the only person that can serve their WS this way! We all deserve many kudos for we are next to saints. Now that's not to say that we don't have our moments and "freak out" or handle this torture and torment in a less than desirable way....but let's face it.....who is the ROCK in the relationship?

HUGS and BLESSINGS to all of us! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Why would anyone lie about being a BS? If they're the WS, that doesn't even make any sense?? I've never seen this OW site, but I can't imagine as a FWS wanting to go there. Talk about enabling the continuation of the fog!!

That is exactly right, Storm. Enabling the continuation of the fog. And they don't give each other advice about NOT seeing the MM or no contact with the MM if they want to end affair. It's more, well, if you want to have the affair we can't stop you and good luck!!!

Lostbut hopeful,

My friend & I where both going thru M problems (both spouses drink too much) at the same time so we kind of bonded together. She met a guy online & met him in person after a few months. That was really painful for me to hear about cuz deepdown I knew my H was really a WH, just hadn't had dday yet. My friend kept asking me for help spiritually. I would cringe everytime I had to talk to her.

Eventually, I realized it was a blessing. I heard things from her side and it confirmed so much of what I learned from MB and on these boards. When I met the MM, I genuinly liked him as a person (not what he was doing) My firend is soooooooooo much in the fog. Even though I have been thru the most painful experience of my life, have been lonley at times, I would not trade positions with her for anything! she thinks she has the love of her life. In all fairness, he may be, but NOT in these circumstances. He is a Godly man and really struggling with all of this.

My friend won't listen (never has) to anything said where she should leave this man alone, etc. Total fog. MM has even called me in dispair & I told him about this website. They (OW & MM) are still together. MM's wife had filed for dv a long time ago, but nothing seems to be moving the dv along, which infuriates my friend.

D.

Okay, I thought long and hard about responding to this thread...one of the first I read after logging into this site. I am a former OW, but let me say off the bat that I am not proud of it, I think my choice was wrong, and thankfully, it ended without anyone else getting hurt. Before it happened, I would have thought I was the LEAST likely person in the world to find myself in that situation. But I did, and if it can happen to me, it can happen to anyone. We live in a fallen world, and I am...fallen.

I am also a gloryb graduate. That board and the OW there are the reason I was able to end my affair. If you have only scanned a few of the more volatile posts there, you can not possibly understand what happens there. So, for those who really want to know, I will tell you.

GloryB IS a site designed for OW. All others are guests because there is nowhere else an OW can go where others actually understand what she is experiencing. Overwhelmingly, the women there are in pain because of the emr and need a place to express that. Some of them are quite happy and proud of their exploits, but they are the minority, not the majority. Overwhelmingly, when someone posts that they are considering entering an emr, they are advised to NOT do it. Loudly and clearly.

But most of the women there are also in their own place of denial. It takes a long time to start seeing the situation clearly when you are emotionally torn. I'm sure those of you who have husbands who have strayed can see this first hand. It is a horribly painful experience for everyone involved. But it is not easy to end, though from your side of it, perhaps it should be.

Those of us who have ended ours can see that we have to talk to people on the level where they are at emotionally. And that means mostly listening and asking gentle questions that will allow them to see for themselves the truth of their own reality. So when a betrayed spouse comes to the board and starts preaching to them about how wrong and evil it is, that is exactly the thing that will spur a defensive reaction like you saw. OW KNOW that what they are doing is wrong. They just don't know how to stop the pain. But when a betrayed wife comes and talks of her own pain without needing to spew hatred and blame...that is the kind of thing that helps the other woman see the reality of her situation and is helpful to her process of leaving the emr. There are some strong friendships there between OWs and BWs...and while there are some lively discussions where it is obvious there is a difference of opinion, there is still mutual respect and an attempt to understand each other. Where it breaks down is when someone comes along who tries to show the OW the error of her ways without taking the time to hear her pain. And this is no different than any other kind of emotional situation we may ever encounter in life. Love the sinner, hate the sin. But the OW overwhelmingly feels personally attacked for her sin. GloryB gives her a place where she is among others who share her sin who can SUPPORT her. SUPPORT does NOT mean encourage the sin. It does mean UNDERSTAND. You will see encouragement for continued emr activity among those who are at the same level of experience in the emr...perhaps not yet feeling the pain that comes with time. I have been at gloryb for over two years, mostly lurking. But those who were happily expounding about the joys of their emr two years ago are today the women who are gently leading other to the place they need to reach to be able to end their emrs. That is what happens with support.

And that is why the site is there. That is why wives are asked to leave or are banned if they are unable to converse in a respectful and civil manner. That said, there are probably as many betrayed wives who post as regulars on that board as there are OWs. And they have learned that together, they can teach eachother a lot and help eachother through a very painful situation. In fact, some of the wives recently posted that they have found gloryB far more helpful to their dealing with the emr and their spouses than sites such as this. (I do not mean this as a flame...I am hear to learn healthy relationship skills and I think the concepts here are on target.)

I have often posted at gloryb that I think the emr is an addiction, that it is "foggy." Those are not popular ideas there, but primarily because in their pain, OW do not want to hear that. But eventually it does get through if it is truth that is spoken in love. I do believe that is a concept that is promoted here at MB. That is also a concept that is promoted and appreciated at gloryb. We are not so different afterall.

chandlergirl, thank you for you honesty and I for one appreciate that you posted. I am a BS, but I do not hold any resentment to anyone, even in my own situation. I also know that sometimes the OW/OM did not know that the WS was even married or involved, as I have met many that play that game. Then they get attached and before you know it POOF they find out, can they stop it? Yes, but that is easier said then done, so I feel that sites like this and the gloryb (I did not know about it, have not been there) fills the purposes for all involved in these things. I am sure that given any other circumstances then the ones we are living right now, NOONE would know who was who as far as being OW/OM or WS and so therefore why should we all deny learning from each other thru all this? You can all tell me to shut-up, but I feel that we are here to learn from each other, support each other and not condemn one another. We are all angry, hurt, on one level or another, but I believe that my WS made the choice to do something he said HE WOULD NEVER DO, I don't think the MOW set out to search and destroy me. I also want to say this, my WS also chose not to work on our relationship as he saw it as something that could be put off until he felt "life issues of the everyday lightened up" (as if that happens in the real world) He also would always talk about tomorrow the future and I would have to "whoaaaa" him back with "YOU know WS, if you don't live in today, there is no tomorrow!! So you see choices are choices. He thinks what he is doing now, is the "right choice" for him, it sure was the easy one since it burdened him to know that one of the hardest things to do on this planet is to keep a healthy relationship going, it does not come easy!! It takes courage, strength, compassion, etc. And I will also say this, I'd rather take the hard road then a few trips down a short path in the "fogzone"!!

P.S. Just read the thread "How do I get over affair partner?" which makes it clear why a board like gloryb is so needed. Here's a woman who desperately wants to get over her affair and comes here for help. She is not heard, she is harshly judged. So she ultimately says thanks but no thanks....and says she's leaving the board. There is something terribly wrong with this picture....

chandler, YOU are wrong, she came back and she has gotten repect and advice, she changed her name, so you are misinformed and in being so you judged the situation by saying "there is something terribly wrong with this picture". I'm not jumping on you, just stating the facts. Keep posting it will be appreciated.

cg:

What's up with you OW things boring over at gloryb? Another one of you is posting over at Just Found Out pretended to be a BS and then omitted to being the OW. Pretty sick.

IF you relationship experts over at gloryb want to help out the fogheaded feel free. And thanks for the wonderful service you all provide over there NOT!

Alright-The voice an another FOW so be warned.

I too consider myself a GB grad. I was TOW for nearly 10 years and am now happily coupled in a monogomous relationship.

I think that there is as much need for the GloryB's of the world as there is for MB sites. I was in the process of ending my emr when I found gb. What a life saver it was. I just knew that MM was my soulmate and that we were in a special unique union. I read GB and was shocked to discover that NOTHING he said or did was the least bit original. Boy was I pissed.

I was never the kind of girl to sit around and wait for him to leave his wife. I actually felt sorry for her. And when I discovered that his plan was to leave her to marry me, I left.

Personally I urge compassion all around. Any one of us could read the others board and think "they're all crazy." There have been times when I came here all I saw was a bunch of whining BS' crying about their WS's 10 emr. Patting themselves on the back for being long suffering and figureing out how to do the best plan A.

There have been times when I went to glory b and all I saw was hamsters on a wheel. Running and chasing and never getting anywhere.

At the end of the day we're all just a bunch of people. Right, wrong, perfect, flawed, happy, sad, confused, in love, enraged, in hurt, insane. Human.

wow--what a debate!
well i went back to gb and did some more reading. the first few posts i read were all about flaming BSs, but i kept on and found out that the majority was not like that. i did see where a lot of BSs went there and looked like it was for no other purpose than to flame OWs. i would just like to clarify that i don't think making a bad decision makes someone a bad person (if i thought that then i would have run like he!! as soon as i knew H was having an affair!)
anyway my point (and i do have one <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) is that you can't judge many by the actions of one, and you can't judge everyone on a message board by reading just a few posts.

<small>[ December 05, 2002, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: lostbuthopeful ]</small>

Just a thought,

I feel that both site serve their purpose. The OW check out this site for various reasons sometimes its for help and sometimes its to see how much pain the BS's are in. As I believe Boiling Over was trying to confirm. Its obvious that she was in pain for not being choice of the WH or the W not throwing the H out and leaving her free to have him. She wanted confirmation on how much pain her phone call caused. She didn't like the idea that the W seemed to be putting it all behind her. She didn't get what she wanted through her phone call and is in deep denial. BS go to gloryb sometimes for the same reasons. The OW in my case wanted a chance at a life w my H and didn't get it Sometimes I like to think of her as the loser and hope that she is in just as much pain as she has caused. In truth-at first I only stayed w my WH because if she thought I was going to just step aside and let her take my husband and my childerens father she had better think again. But as painful as staying was I'm glad I made that choice.

I obviously can't speak for others, but for me finding MB has been a tremendous gift. I was in pain over have just ended a long EMR when I found this place.

I honestly believed that even after d-day the emr had had no effect on the marital relationship. I look back now and think "how could it NOT have had an effect." But truely, his wife finding out didn't change his behavior one iota. So I assumed that it didn't matter to her. He always told me when things were crazy at home. He seemed almost relieved. She knew, it was never mentioned and we continued business as usual.

It was kind of like that "if a tree falls in the forrest thing."

On d-day #2 I spoke to his wife and she said and I quote "yes KS, I know who you are. What do you expect me to do about it. What happends between MM and you has nothing to do with me."

Based on this information I felt free to continue to see him as I pleased. It was BS's here that told me about the pain of the BS. I honestly had no other way to know.

Neesha...I did read the entire thread, I know she changed her name...unless there is something from her more recent than this morning, the last post she posted was a goodbye for the reasons I mention. That was my reference, but if I was wrong, I apologize. And I am sorry you are going through this horrendous experience. I pray it will make you strong. You are right...the harder way is the choice to invest in the work of a relationship.

Kalgirl, I know there are gloryb troublemakers lurking here and elsewhere...I am not one of them. There's a lot of truth in the world just waiting to be discovered. I'm sure there is a great deal of it here. But, there is truth at GloryB. And a lot of wisdom. I suppose I am seeking whatever wisdom may be found here, I can not speak for the others.

No one is more frustrated than me to see the OW at GloryB who are "stuck" in their emr, as Katie Scarlett writes, running around like hamsters on a wheel. I'm about growth, movement, forgiveness. Please realize that for the OW, she must learn to forgive herself. And that is sometimes far more difficult than it is for a wife to forgive a wandering husband. I do believe that many times we become involved in an emr because of a deficiency in ourselves. For the OW, when the emr ends, she feels totally alone with nowhere to go to work through the fallout. Usually, no one else in her life knows about it because it is "secret." That is a horribly lonely place to be, as some of you must know if you are finding support here for a damaged marriage. I would imagine most of you can also talk to friends and family about what's going on with you. Imagine you had to hide all that pain from everyone around you. How long would you be able to survive that way?

I do appreciate all of you who seem to be kindred spirits...seeking to understand yourselves and others. Thank you all for listening.

<small>[ December 05, 2002, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: Chandlergirl ]</small>