Just noticed this... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">**edit**
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're kidding, right? or is this for real? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Susan:

Usually, I am kidding! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

But, yes. That's my email address. We also have a website. Please feel free to check it out!

Pepperband,
Your comments could not be the most cruel ever uttered on MB unless your other name is The student <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ladies, before you post generalities about men...remember that included in that term "men" are our fathers, our brothers, our sons, our uncles, our nephews and our grandfathers.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So only when it seems bad , generalities are bad? It seems to me on other parts of the board, men throw out generalities about themselves all the time. Like all men like porn, all men fantizise about 3 somes, all men are "programed" to look and admire every set of tits and [censored] that comes thier way?

interesting....

Like all men like porn, all men fantizise about 3 somes, all men are "programed" to look and admire every set of tits and [censored] that comes thier way?

Let's see. I don't particularly care for porn. I in no way shape or form fantacise about 3=somes (actually my W used to however, go figure), and I do not stop to look at every set of T+A I see. If I do look at a woman, I do not hide it, and for that matter my W IS THE STANDARD by which all other women are judged. HHMM, according to these guidelines, I'm not even a man. OMG!!! I'm Richard Simmons!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

MTD

Well, nice try, Rosie.

I now regret speaking up on Baby Blue's post and I intend to seek out her future posts to confirm her disclaimer: not ALL guys are alike.

I think I'll adopt the attitude NOT to be offended or feel stereotyped. What do you think of this approach?:

Guys with integrity welcome the over stated generalities - it's a fun challenge to disprove them!

Maybe we could all agree that none of the generalities are directed to any men here, any men that is related to anyone here etc, etc. Would that be better? I in all honesty do not think that anyone would ever intend to hurt anyone here, sometimes I think it just might be a place where one feels safe to vent and not have to account for every darn thing that comes out of there mouth. Kinda like being with family and just spewing the spit and know that the family is not gone to make you wear a drool-cup. JMHO. I use this board as anyone else to help, comfort and receive that in return; but we also need to just lash out and get the nasties out of the way so we can make room for a better perspective. I for one have respect for humans period, but have been known to make generalities about human nature, does not mean I am trying to offend anyone.

I guess lately I have seen so many people having to defend what they are typing more than feel they can be safe on here and know they are with "family" that knows them. Alot of us here are getting familiar with each other every day. And I have not met anyone that goes out of their way to "offend anyone here with generalities, but I have seen some post a generality to hear what feedback they could receive about it. Sorry that I have rambled on.

Pepperband and Babyblue...
I love this little tidbit I read in Guideposts a few months back....
"Resentment is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die."
How true is that? Seemed to fit in this thread. It has really helped me understand how dangerous resentment is.
Take care all.

Sheesh, I go away for a day... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Look, Baby, here's my point about your plan A. By trying to diagnose "men" as "hunters" (or whatever else I've seen lately, you are not the only one I was refering too), you are setting yourself up with resentment against your husband, making a disrespectful judgement about him, and ignoring what real issues probably lay behind his affair, and setting yourself up in the morally superior position. Some of his reasons are probably totally bunk (well, there is NO reason to have an affair) but what I am trying to say is that I am sure your man had some legitimate problems with how you treated him in the marriage. But if you are writing his behavior off to a general flaw within all men, then why try to save your marriage? Won't he just go "hunting" again? How could you ever trust him? With that attitude, one is not going to look inside and see his/her own problems and issues. What any marriage needs to survive is for both spouses to be willing to examine themselves and change their own behavior instead of diagnosing the other spouse. And unfortunately, if one really believes that men are somehow all flawed morally, can you see that working from that "truth" might affect all of your actions towards your husband?

I really wasn't trying to hurt you or single you out. I just found it distressing that recently the tone on the board had shifted to a very negative one against men.

I found along the journey that I am still on, that I absolutely can not judge "men" or "women" or my husband. We are all just people, flawed, precious, and beautiful, just struggling along trying to find happiness, peace and contentment. We all try different ways to achieve this - some answers work better than others, some answers only work for some people...

Anyway, just something to think about. Now I'm very late for work. <sigh>

Bramblerose... It wasn't ME who was diagnosing men as hunters. I WAS, however, asking for feedback on the theory.

Let me try to explain: For the first time in 12 yrs my H is really doing some serious soul-searching. He brainstorms alot and is trying to understand himself and his motives/feelings/emotions/etc. in an effort to understand how he could do this to me and us, and how he was able to justify the As in his mind. I am trying very hard to be understanding and supportive. I want him to feel safe with me so that he will keep me involved in his 'journey to self-discovery.' I was stunned when he came up with this, but in therapy, our mc said it is actually an all too common way men have of dealing with these feelings, and expanded on the theory. I was very silent.. I was afraid to say anything, for fear he (my H) would take it wrong. So I remained silent and just listened. Honestly, my first instinct was "HUH??? You've got to be kidding me!! I mean really... we live in a civilized world, come on!! Surely you can do better than that!!" But the more I thought about it, I believe there is an element of truth to it. Yes, it's an oversimplification... but I do believe it is based on an element of truth. So, then I came here to try to make sense of it. There are some basic instinctual parts of men and women that can affect us even today, if we refuse to acknowledge them, think about them, and then think before we act. Humans are still animals after all. I know we like to pretend we're not, but we are. We just happen to be fortunate enough to have the ability to think.... however, it doesn't always mean we do.

And this is by no means his 'reason' for cheating. It's one of the many things that has gone through his mind, that we discuss and analyze, so he can reach a point where he can say "Yes, I really felt that way" or "No, I was really stretching with that one, and making excuses to justify my actions." In summary, it's just a stepping stone in his self-discovery journey, and in our recovery. We are trying to understand each other, so that this doesn't happen to us again.

I simply came here, to throw that theory out there. To see what other people thought, or if anyone else had ever even heard of this, or thought of this... It was intended to be a friendly debate. The basis was men seek value externally, women internally. I sure didn't have any women screaming "hey! Are you calling us self-absorbed??" To be honest, I'M not even sure where I stand on this whole mess. I was hoping to figure that out here.

In summary, I haven't diagnosed My Man as a 'hunter'. He did. I haven't decided whether to believe him or not. Honestly, I hope he's not. I do know he is very hurt and confused right now. He is a wonderful husband and father. He is and extremely honorable man, who has not only let me and our family down, but he let HIMSELF down. His self-esteem is at an alltime low, because he cannot believe that HE could ever do anything like this, his remorse and guilt are incredible. I know he loves me, I know he is sorry. I don't know why he did this, he doesn't either. But there had to be a reason, and we are working toward that answer. I do love and respect my husband very much, and I believe it is a little harsh of you insinuate that I dont, when I am doing everything I possibly can to support and understand him while still dealing with my own feelings of hurt, betrayal, rage, sadness, depression, etc. I have only known for 7 weeks after all. I've lost 30 lbs, and now suffer high blood pressure and panic attacks... Give me a break. I'm doing the best I can.

Oh dear, I hope I didn't offend anyone. That certainly wasn't my intention, though it seems I have a pentiant for doing so lately. I was merely trying to interject some humor (with a slight hint of sarcast, sorry it is in my nature). It anyone was upset by my post, I apologize. I certainly didn't mean to hijack anyone's thread.

We just happen to be fortunate enough to have the ability to think.... however, it doesn't always mean we do.

You're not kidding. Baby, sounds like you're doing great givent the circumstances. You're right, 7 weeks isn't long. Have you considered taking some mild anti-depressants? My W is going through much of the same emotions right now so I can certainly relate. I hope you and your H find the answers you're looking for. Prayers to you.

MTD

"MTD clumsily scuffles away on one foot while futilly attempting to remove the other one from his mouth."

MDT... Gee , I had to go back and read your post to see if I was offended. Nooooo,,, I laughed the first time I read it, and harder the second time!! You are too funny... Richard Simmons?? *giggle* *snort* <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

My post was not directed at you. Prayers to you and your wife as well. I wish you the best of luck.

WAT- I was not offended at all by your post on my original thread. You were honest, yet not abusive. We are all entitled to our opinions. As I said on that thread, I would delete at anyone's request, and I did. Or at least as much as I could! I also appreciate your statements on this thread, thank you so much for giving me a chance.

Very sincerely... Baby

Whew, Thanks BB. Ya know the really funny thing is, my W LOVES Richard Simmons. Oy, I guess you really said it when you said everyone is entitled to thier opinions. Double Oy. Triple even. Best wishes to you also BB.

MTD

Baby ~

I don't recall anyone asking you to delete your posts. I don't think it was necessary.

Anyway, your explanation sheds more light on your earlier thread - BUT - might I suggest that next time you give us that background?

Had you posted your question with the explanation that your husband was using it as an excuse, I think your replies would have been far different. I for one would have responded that your husband was full of bullhonkeyjonas and avoiding responsibility for his actions. The ensuing conversation in your thread would probably have been far more enlightening to you, dealing specifically with YOUR situation and YOUR husband, instead of "men".

Instead, what resulted was a number of very bitter angry responses. Unfortunately, every year around the Christmas/New Year, we get an influx of raw, hurting BSes on these boards. And those are the ones most likely to be harmed by a male bash fest by encouraging them in understandable, but very destructive thought patterns and actions.

Anyway, Baby, I really wasn't singling you out in particular. I simply wanted to try and point out to the board in general that there was a trend starting to take over.

This is a marriage building board - nothing should be torn down, except maybe our old preconceptions about marriage and afffairs <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />