Ok, here goes. I made him super angry a few days ago.
One of the things that has bothered me greatly is a picture OW sent FWH back during A. She is my age, but looked years younger! I thought this can't be real. LOL
So over the past 17 months I've checked a site online where she works, figuring eventually they'd put her picture in staff someday.
Sure enough I found it this week!
Turns out the picture she originally sent has to be at least 10 yrs old or more! Yippee. LOL
Sorry, but my self esteem came back up greatly when I got a current picture of her.
I showed it to him, told him why I had to find it. He was furious at me.
Finally he calmed down some as I told him I had to do what would help me. That it's not all about his feelings!
Honestly, I really did need this. You would not believe these two pictures are of same woman.
Gratefully, she looks much older than I. Whew!
And is heavier, sort of frumpy looking. I'm being honest here. Just had to know I couldn't possibly look that much older.
Is it wrong when we pursue things to help rebuild our self esteem and feel better about ourselves?
I really don't think so. But has anyone else encountered their FWH getting so angry when you do search for healing through info?
Do you think it might be an embarrassment when we find out what they lowered their standards to?
My feeling was how could he possibly have ever thought to trade me in for her!
Yes, I know about EN's, but truthfully, she was looking and using as much as he was.
Both takers!
Of late, I have been able to share bible with him. He says he truly had realized how dangerous a game he was playing. And how blessed he is with me. That is why he stayed married and gave her up.
I don't know why this has bothered me so much about what the OW looked like, more than her personality.
Perhaps it's because we always think the OP must be gorgeous!
I think because I see immorality as something that would be a big turnoff. At least for me.
Is it the fog? They get so involved they cannot see the whole dirty mess for what it is?
Thanks for listening all, I really appreciate your ear.
God bless, LouLou

LouLou .... put on your safety helmet .... I'm going to whack you with the 2X4!

"Is it wrong when we persue things to help rebuild our self esteem and feel better about ourselves?"

This sounds like something reasonable, doesn't it? Lou .... how does one build her self esteem by standing on another woman's back? You are incorrect. Your self esteem has been damaged here. If how you feel good about you depends on how ugly/old/frumpysomeone else is .... then you are not building *esteem* about yourself .... you are being destructive and childish.

Your original title question began "Did I LB?" YES Lou .... you LB'd yourself! .... and you likely pushed your H further away emotionally.

Your so-called self esteem building was not an act of self-loving ..... not at all!

You are wrong. Apologize to your H without excuses. Humble yourself before your H in this matter.

Pepper

<small>[ March 15, 2003, 10:10 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

OK Lou .... helmet off!

((( hugs )))

Sweetie, I know where you are. was there at one time. Take a look at your pridefulness ..... this pridefulness is whispering in your ear ... >You are better than the OW< ... and also whispering >You are holier than your husband<

This thinking will NOT heal your marriage. Let it go. Be the most loving and humble and grateful LouLou possible!

You said "Is it the fog?" ..... Yes it is Lou, it is YOUR fog that's hurting your marriage now.

You are pushing your H away. Ask yourself why you fear him being close.

Let go .... let God.

Lou ..... let go. Stop pushing the fear and anxiety out of your heart by LBing your H. Feel this hurt and pain, and trust God to lead you toward Grace.

Go back and read your original post and look for Grace in what you did ..... I couldn't find any.

Bless your hurting heart!

Pep

Wow Pepper! I think I need 4 advil! LOL
Perhaps I should never have let him know what I did and just have enjoyed the moment?
I suppose I do have many hangups. But I just know I had to see for myself. Looks don't make a person, but as a woman I really did hurt thinking she may have been gorgeous and I couldn't compare to her. He had told me differently, but said original pic was like only couple yeawrs old.
Ok. We did make up over it, he seemed to accept that I needed a self esteem boost. And this helped me. But he ask me now to let it go and just be in our marriage.
Forgetting it all and moving forward. I do feel this has given me a step further along.
But I'll not make that mistake again. LOL
Part of my pain has been they knew each other in HS. And I felt he must have never gotten over her to look her up and do this.
I now see his fog probably had him fantasizing in the past, and blinded by that time in his life. Couldn't see the trees for the forest!
Ok, I screwed up royally. But I can't say I'm sorry I got a look. I just have to be honest here.
Hiding from Pepper! LOL Bury those 2x4's quick Pep. I can't take another hit in the head like that. But thanks for readjusting my brain matter.
I do carry things long in memory. I think you're right about fear of closeness. The pain has been one I've experienced twice with him, and other ways more than a hundred times. I do fear being hurt again, so I'm afraid to love him as I once did.
He has been a very hurtful person even though he said he wanted to rebuild our marriage. Listening to him compare me to her when we argued is not helping me. He has even made up things he couldn't possibly even know about her home, cooking, etc just to hurt me. He built her up to be a perfect paragon of virtues and wife! While bashing me horribly. though I knew his statements were to hurt me, and untrue of me, they still hurt! yet her, by her own admission, was on rocks for years and she is an unfaithful wife.
I know who I am though, and I know he thinks I'm a great cook,attractive, take care of myself for him, and good in many areas. Yet his hateful way of bashing me over her is outrageous.
When we've argued over this, i've told him if she's so great, go be with her! And leave me in peace to heal. He then retracts all the hateful venom.
I think a lot of my needs were to disspell his own twisted thinking over who she is or was!
I prefer reality to imagination. In a way I felt I was forcing him to take a look without the rose colored glasses. As for my being a better woman? yes I am! Not more loved by God, he loves all people, but a better person in morals, and loving my H! God gives all an equal chance. Loves all no matter how sinful. Loves the person, hates the sin.
If this sounds egotistical, then so be it. Because she was advising him how he might steal all assets and send to her to put in a bank in another state. Then cheating on her own marriage, involving her daughter in the A. So many things I could never do and live with myself.
As a wife, mother,and moral conscience, YES I am BETTER! that doesn't mean I'm perfect, because no one is. It doesn't mean I don't have flaws because everyone does. But my standards are way higher. For one, I could never do this to my H as she did. OR any other wife as she did.
I couldn't lie and do as my H did. I accept my flaws, but they're just of a different nature.
I could never set out to destroy innocent people, marriages, nor bring so much pain down on others.
I think it takes a very selfcentered, selfish, ego maniac to do these things.
Oh shoot Pep. LOL Tirades?
We're working on it slow but sure to heal here. As I see him become less hateful and more understanding, I begin to feel better about us making it.
Thanks again. OUCH. LouLou

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Perhaps I should never have let him know what I did and just have enjoyed the moment? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think the entire point was not to "enjoy" building your self-esteem by comparing yourself to someone else.

You will never be able to make the affair make sense. Don't waste energy trying to find her picture.

Once OM unknowingly told me his email password. I can actually go on the web and see his email.

Did I do this after the affair? YEP, for a long time. (I checked his email just like you checked for her picture)

Did it help me at all? Nope, slowed down recovery. I was focusing on something OTHER than my marriage and myself.

Do I still do it? Now Way! His life is his business and his problem. I hope I never run into him again!

Don't waste your energies thinking or comparing yourself to OW.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> For one, I could never do this to my H as she did. OR any other wife as she did.
I couldn't lie and do as my H did. I accept my flaws, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">PS...I said and believed the same thing...and you may not.

I think I was the most surprised when I did.

Who was that girl?????

Lou .... one of the things I admire about you is your honesty.

Do you trust me to a point where I can hit you with the MB 2X4 when you go off on an LB tangent? Be honest. I will leave you alone if that's what you want.

I am trying to help. If I am not helping, but instead am yelping .... say so.

Pep

Pepper, please don't abandon me! Truly, sometimes, or most times, we need someone else looking from the outside to help us see more clearly. And I do appreciate it very much so.
Criticism, constructive, which is what I see a lot of here, is very good! And I know I need it many times.
I write a lot, it's sort of my way of just venting and getting things out that I can't discuss with H. It just makes too much anger come out of both of us. first he starts to get angry when I just need some understanding and compassion for dealing with this. I try to stay very calm and talk quietly, but it always turns into anger when he starts striking out.
So? This is where I feel free to talk, and hopfully get some good advice back.
So Pep, keep the 2x4 handy cause I'm sure I am gonna need a few more whacks in future. LOL
Might as well take my lumps as I deserve them.
Yes, I am having a very hard time letting go.
I want to, I need to, and my self esteem was lowered so much.
Would you believe most of my life I've been very confident, and independent thinking? I think this just threw me for such a loop, I've searched for why, what, and how do I compare or where did I not compare.
My H is one who will allow things to lie even when he knows the truth and could help. So I've had to find out for myself a great deal of things.
The more I've found, the more I see how much my imagination played such horrible tricks on me.
So, Susan, it was not all for naught either. But perhaps wrong way to try to find oneself.
H is becoming, slow but sure, much better with talking with me. I usually try to find a setting where it's more relaxed, and less likely to turn into a brouhaha!
Radical honesty? That would have been wonderful if he'd been able to open up fully and discuss things with me months ago. It's been like pulling teeth!
And yes, I do need to let go and forget it. What I've done, though in pain, is keep wounds open.For both of us! A great flaw in my character to be so emotionally unstable over this A. I know I should have been able to heal more at this point in time.
So Pep, keep on whacking until this old girl gets her brain in center. LOL I accept when I'm wrong.
And where I need to work on me!
Thank you both, Pep and Susan, for taking time to care.
One more weird thing, how I can look more rationally at others here, and see where they may need to do or not do something, but can't apply that same rationale to myself! either of you find that has happened to you before?
God bless, LouLou

LouLou, our DSL has gotten wet or somp'in with this last rain deluge ... so my at home internet access is zero right now.
You live in So Cal high desert? Is that right? Ever come into the S.F. valley area?

We could "do lunch" sometime (a Hollywood-ism LOL) and whack each other over coffee.

Just an idea.

Pep

BTW Lou "this old girl" is 53.

So, relax.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We could "do lunch" sometime (a Hollywood-ism LOL) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nope, we "do lunch" here in the good 'ole south too... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Except I hardly ever do...cause I work straight through till 1 or 2 p.m. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> then it's too late to "do lunch". I'll do anything for food by that time!

Pepper, sorry your internet was down yesterday. I was going to transmit my "southern voice" to you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Susan:

"Nope, we "do lunch" here in the good 'ole south too..."

Yeah, but all y'all eat funny stuff like Alligator and Roast Chicken Faces! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

-ol' Qfwfq

<small>[ March 17, 2003, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: Qfwfq ]</small>

Yeah, and don't forget...road-kill (armadillo) and fried rattlesnake. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ March 17, 2003, 06:20 PM: Message edited by: Susan ]</small>

LOL Thanks Pep. I've lived here 40 yrs and never been to S.F. Hubby hates it when he's been there, but it was business. But I've always wanted to visit there. Most people love it.
Could be he didn't want me there with him due to other interest?
Someday, I'm coming there and will love to do lunch with you!
Susan, I'm born and bred southern girl. Love Fried okra. No rattlesnake please. LOL
God bless and Love to you all, LouLou

LadyLou,

Totally understand your need to see that pix. For me it was a survival technique (OW threatened to turn me into police and alluded to taking my son). I had to know what she looked like in case she came by or tried to pick our son up from his school or daycare. Remember I dealt with PBR.

Guess my disappointment was when she wasn't a drop dead gegorous person and almost perfect. Instead the WS tangled up with a true PBR an older woman trying to look younger (going after younger men), a bit hard of hearing (or so I am told, I yelled into the phone when I spoke to her because I wanted to make sure she heard me - LOL!!! ), heard her personal demensions weren't that great (well neither am I), but the greatest piece (I don't usually brag about me - but will make an exception here) - greatest piece was that my inner beauty, far surpassed her. Where she thought and said she was better than me, I surpassed her with my eyes closed. The True PBR showed up with all her PMSness (new word! LOL!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ).

Oh boy, I laid into the WS when I learned that he replaced me with a person of such a demeaning character. I told him I was greatly disappointed. The least thing he could do was do better than ME!!!! Another piece of babble that helped me and threw him for a loop.

So when Pepper swings that 2 X 4 ----- DUCK! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

hugz,
L.

LOL Thanks Orchid. It's nice to have someone validate feelings. And understand them. I know we're all different, but I really don't think I'm that unique in triggers and things I need to know.
Pep is a great person, but I'm quick and will just duck or take 4 more advil. LOL
Since I found a current pic, I feel much better. I already knew my inner self was better. Just from the moral character. But it does do something to us wondering what OP was like physically. Like you, I told my H he surely went down the scale instead of up as I'd have expected. And that included the exterior and interior!
He admits it now. But there have been some terrible things said to me, as well as some bad physical abuse recently over this Person.
This I will not tolerate and removed myself separately in the home. Told him I accept his feelings, but that no matter what he feels, I demand at least respect for my physical and emotional well being. And that until he broke his feeling of loyalty to his OW, he could count me already separated.
Took him about 3 days to finally apologize and retract his abusive behavior of words to me.
This marriage is on the brink, and the more he does harm, the more my feelings die. It's very close now and if I do not see a 180 that is constant, I'm going to move on rather than have permanent damage to my well being.
When a man hurts his W in an A, then thinks it's just drop it and let's just act like nothing happened, he's got a lot of learning to do!
In MO, if you act like the loving, sweet person recommended without ironing out the issues first,you simply set yourself up to be viewed as a groveling pushover!
The A would be easy to get over, if he'd acted like he was disgusted with her! I'm the one who has taken all the abuse, while holding her totally innocent. And he knew because I made it clear, until the day you can look at her as who she is and helped you equally to harm me, then you can whistle dixie buddy. And you will not have me in your life as a marriage partner, but a live in buddy only. And I stuck with it!
I would not let this slide into oblivion while I took abuse over OW! NEVER HAPPEN!
It seems he's been able to change his mind about who deserves respect now. But it has to remain constant. When it does, I will definitely be doing my part to heal us both.
But one thing I will never accept. BLAME!
NOR will I consider allowing him to hold himself 100% responsible while relieving OP of any blame. It takes two to commit adultery! And if one says no, then it's over before it starts!
The OP didn't make vows with me, or promises. But they knew the harm they wrought well. And loved every minute of it. How do I want him to feel? Sincere about his feelings. And that better include wishing the pain on me was on her instead, where it belongs!
I want honesty, no matter what it is. Because I am an individual who has a right to make decisions concerning my future based on truth and facts. NOT pacifications!
If I accept less, then I deny who I am. An honest to the bone person!
Don't feed me lines, and crap, and expect me to take on strength of word now. Actions and how I'm treated is the line I draw.
Ok, off on tangeant again. LOL sorry.
Thanks again Orchid. One of most important things counselor told me is we need our feelings validated. Until then, we cannot begin to heal.
God bless, LouLou