My W finally made a move on the D. I received a copy of her proposed financial settlement. Basically, this is what she wants from me:

50% of daycare expenses
50% of all school related costs
50% of all medical & dental bills
50% of all extracurricular activities
pay for daughter's health insurance

I have no problem with any of this since this is what we've been doing the past 8 months.

20% of my net salary (a little under $800/mth)
50% of my stock options (not sure what she means; if it's my mutual funds, she's entitled, if it's my Long Term Incentive Plan through work, that's fine, it's based on the profitability of the company over the past six years, which has no value at this point)

Now, I want to makes some points. I have true 50/50 shared custody and am already incurring half the day to day costs of raising our daughter. Since I've already been paying half the costs listed above, $800/mth seems quite excessive to me. 20% is the standard in my state, but that's for a typical 80/20 or 70/30 split in custody, when there's a huge disparity in incomes (not the case here) and the expenses aren't split equally.

Also, my W makes no mention of her profit sharing and stocks, which I'm entitled to a portion of. I am not surprised.

I'm sure my W (or most likely her lawyer) is shooting for the moon.

One other thing I found funny, a sentence that read "...any further attempts at reconcilliation would be futile...". What attempts? Doesn't this imply she tried to reconcile? It made me laugh.
Could be just typical legal wording, but I will make sure that in my reponse my lawyer states that my W never expressed any desire to reconcile. Just something I need on the record.
Anyway, I'll let me lawyer do her job and stay out of it as much as possible.

Even with this latest move on my W's part, I'm still not convinced this is truly what she wants, but with custody and the house issues being settled, she had no more excuses not to make some move. In any case, I've got to stand my ground and protect myself.

I'm feeling somewhat relieved, yet sad and worried. Relieved that something is happening, albeit not what I want. Sad that she never gave us a chance and worried that she'll be even more unhappy than ever (which she has indicated), but won't have anyone to blame for the situation she will find herself in.

sad dad

<small>[ March 21, 2003, 06:24 AM: Message edited by: sad dad ]</small>

sorry that it comes to this. agree with your assessment of her terms - especially the 20%, and the 'reconciliation' attempt thing is a bit galling, isnt it. let it handle via your lawyer - that way you're protected, both financially and emotionally.

N

Thanks Nick! That's exactly what I'm going to do. It's a legal issue at this point and I really have no idea what's fair or equitable.

How's things on the other side of the pond?

sad dad

Hi sad dad
I haven't been posting much. But I think your wife is out of line with her demands. She should get a percentage of the DIFFERENCE between the two of yours salaries in my opinion.

If you were to pay her 20% of your gross salary, who ends up having more income? Would you still make more than her, would the salaries be even or would she make more than you?

Your wife has always been self supporting. It doesn't seem like an alimony situation. What is the 20% for?

As for retirement, either each should keep his/her own or split both his and her plans down the middle 50/50.

Hope your lawyer can deal with this. Keep us posted.

espoir,

Thanks for replying.

"She should get a percentage of the DIFFERENCE between the two of yours salaries in my opinion."

I agree. This is also what my lawyer told me 9 months ago.

"If you were to pay her 20% of your gross salary, who ends up having more income? Would you still make more than her, would the salaries be even or would she make more than you?"

She would make more.

"Your wife has always been self supporting. It doesn't seem like an alimony situation. What is the 20% for?"

That's what I'm wondering. She not asking for alimony and isn't entitled to it.

"As for retirement, either each should keep his/her own or split both his and her plans down the middle 50/50."

Either would be fine with me.

I talked to my lawyer about this the other day. My W was supposed to provide my lawyer documentation on her profit sharing, stocks and all earnings by 2/19, but never did so. I told my lawyer I will not respond to her proposal until I have this documentation and all the cards are laid on the table so to speak. My lawyer is sending a letter to hers regarding this, so for now I'll wait to hear from my lawyer.

On a strange note, my W called me a few days ago and said our daughter wants to have her b-day party a Dinorex (a Chuck E Cheese kind of place), and my W suggested we have one big party for both families. Keep in mind, my daughter's b-day isn't until June. Last year we had separate parties even though we were still living together at the time. I don't know why she would want to put us, our daughter or our families in that situation. Also, she asked if I wanted to take our daughter out to dinner on the night of her actual b-day as we have the past two years. Again, I don't know why she would want to do that. It could send my daughter mixed messages that we'll still be doing things as a family. My W seems to be oblivious to the fact that things are quite likely to get unpleasant as we start the settlement process.

sad dad

<small>[ March 21, 2003, 06:45 AM: Message edited by: sad dad ]</small>

SD - your wife is certainly trying to construct herself a new world whereby you are separated/divorced, yet somehow together. I don't know if that's what you want - my guess is that you may want to move on and restrict contact to the absolute necessary. In this sense, a conversation about B-party seems all right. Not sure though if I would go for the common B-party. Similarly, if she lets you have her for the night of the actual birthday - great. A dinner all toghether - I wouldnt. (rather: couldn't - if I was in your situation.... or will be myself soon!)

im sorry to say i am not up-to date on your whole situation. but is the 800 a month for child support?? who is your daughter gonna live with?? who will have the day to day physical custody.

just curious

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by sad dad:
<strong>
One other thing I found funny, a sentence that read "...any further attempts at reconcilliation would be futile...". </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am by no means an expert in legal matters but could it be that she's trying to prevent the judge from ordering marriage counseling?

Else it could be her way of making her point about not wanting to be in this M.

Nick,

You are right, once we're divorced I want to move on and limit any contact with my W to issues pertaining to our daughter. I want to be civil for her sake, but I have no desire to be friends.

She meant dinner together, all 3 of us.

nikko,

Yes, she wants $800/mth for CS, in addition to half of all the other expenses. We have 50/50 shared legal and physical custody. My W has her on Mon & Thurs, I have her on Tues & Wed and we alternate every other Fri/Sat/Sun. I earn about 60% of our combined income. What my W is proposing would have me paying upwards of 75% of the cost of our daughter's care.

utterly,

I'm sure that sentence was standard legalese, I just thought it was funny as it doesn't apply in our case and I won't agree to it. If my W agrees to say she never wanted to reconcile, that's fine with me.

sad dad

<small>[ March 21, 2003, 08:20 AM: Message edited by: sad dad ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Yes, she wants $800/mth for CS, in addition to half of all the other expenses. We have 50/50 shared legal and physical custody. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">sad dad,

JMHO....the CS should be a moot point if you have joint physical and legal custody. If your daughter lives with you half the time and her mother half the time, it all comes out in the wash. You would be paying when she's with her mother, her mother would be paying when she's with you. It's even.

One other thing...if she thinks that you should be paying child support AND half the cost of all those things that you listed....what in the world does she think that the CS is supposed to go toward? HER lifestyle? The CS is YOUR half of what it takes to support your child. I agree about the health care and paying half of all things not covered by insurance, but she needs to get real. The extracurriculars could be a bottomless pit. If you agree to pay that half, you might want to consider asking to be consulted on anything that costs more than a designated amount. (Consulted BEFORE the commitment to the activity) It would be like giving her a blank check if you were not consulted before. She would give you an amount, and she would expect you to acquiesce! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

She could learn to budget, that is usually what must be done when a divorce occurs.

I know that they ask for the moon so that it can be whittled down to something comfortable. So many of the things asked for are tossed aside.

JMHO
committed

Sad Dad - that seems like alot - my ex pays only 150.00 a week for two children - ages 10 and 13 and we have joint custody but I am the custodial parent meaning that they live with me - and they only visit him once a week overnight - Now that is because I actually make more money than him - and in determining child support - there is a special formula - in Massachusetts - it is both salaries - the custodial parent gets like 20,000.00 subtracted of of their annual salary because the children live with them - then they take into consideration who pays for the health care - etc... If you do a search of your state guidelines for child support you should be able to figure it out... Also who is claiming your daughter on their income taxes, and as for the profit sharing - we each kept our own - because they were around the same amount each - they should be split down the middle - Good luck

This is what I'm considering proposing. It seems fair to me, but I realize it's subjective.

Our combined net incomes are $80,000. Let's say 20% of that income goes for child care, that's $16,000. Daycare is about $8,000/yr, so the total cost of raising our daughter would be $24,000. Since we have 50/50 shared custody, we would both be incurring half of that, or $12,000. I make about 60% of our combined income, so 60% of $24,000 is $14,400. Subtract $12,000 and that leaves $2,400/yr (or $200/mth) to be paid in CS, as well as half of all other costs. If necessary, to go along with the same percentages, I'd be willing to pay 60% of all the other costs.

I really think this is fair. While we were married and living together, I was responsible for 60% of the costs of raising our daughter and I shared all the parenting responsibilities equally. Why should getting divorced change that?

sad dad

ok-i underdstand your proposal and think its fair. but i am gonna warn you on the 50% of everything else..... i have a friend who was sued for pencil erasers and shoe laces!!!

i swear to you---do not do this. lay out what you will be responsible for-health, dental, whatever--put it in writing. do not leave it open ended! as far as the rest-contribute what you want-you can still pay for stuuf even if it isnt in the judgement.

Sad Dad - in my divorce I wrote - husband resposible for health insurance for the child - and actually me until either one of us remarries - then I wrote we will each pay half of activities such as dancing, cheerleading etc... and then half of the cost of braces if needed - and then when it came to college we wrote that each parent would contribute what they were capable of at the time... So like Nikko says you might want to get everything in writing - just for the simple fact you don't know who either one of you will be with in the future - and you want everything in writing in case you get a new wife who doesn't like how much you pay or she gets a new husband and he doesn't think you pay enough....

nikko/maw,

I understand that I have to be careful not to leave things open-ended because my W could keep ringing up the total so to speak, but I'm less concerned about that because I'll know those expenses are going directly for my daughter. I'm more concerned about giving her a huge CS payment and not knowing how that money is used. Keep in mind, it goes both ways. If I sign my daughter up for soccer or skating lessons or whatever, my W has to pay for half of that too.

As far as college savings, I don't expect my W to match my contributions, especially since I'll be getting an inheritence soon in which I intend to use a large percentage for my daughter's education. What I would like however is something that states we each have to make a minimum yearly contribution (maybe $1000???).

As I said earlier, I'm not going to offer a counter-proposal until my W provides the necessary documentation on her retirement package. I don't know if that is $20k or $50k, or what percentage of that I'm entitled to. This could be a big bargaining chip. I find it quite strange that her lawyer never asked me to provide the same documentation. She's asking for something that I don't have (stock options), but didn't ask for something I do have (mutual funds).

sad dad

<small>[ March 23, 2003, 09:38 AM: Message edited by: sad dad ]</small>

I think your proposal is basically fair. It's true that you have to be careful to put as much as you can in writing. And be prepared to live with that agreement.

Does your lawyer think the judge will see it your way? Are there precedents in your state?

I haven't discussed my counter proposal with my lawyer yet, I'm waiting until my W provides the necessary financial documents. From what my lawyer has told me in the past, what my W is asking for is far in excess of what she should get in a 50/50 shared custody arrangement. In fact, it's more than she would likely get in an 80/20 arrangement. It appears my W, or most likely her lawyer is dismissing the fact that I've got shared custody and my W makes a very comfortable living. This is far from going before a judge at this point.

The way I see it, and I'm no legal scholar, my W can't justify what she's proposing. I believe I can. I have complete confidence in my lawyer, she seems to have done a good job so far. I got 50/50 shared legal and physical custody and I got the house. Dads and husbands often get the short end.

sad dad

Thinking about it more- your W's demand seems way excessive. Think about it this way-
In my state, one of the guidelines for child support for a parent with full custody is 20% of the non custodial parent's salary. This is applied on wages up to $80,000. The percentages increase for more than one child. Of course your state may have different guidelines.

So if I had full custody, and one child, if my H made $50,000 theoretically my CS would be $10,000 OR about $800 a month. SO your wife's demand of 20% is basically what some states would award as CS- and then she wants child support on top of it. And she only has your daughter 50% of the time. Something is very whacked out in her thinking!Glad to hear you are confident in your attorney.

Her invitation to you for the birthday party seems very strange especially since it's only April. I think she is trying to reassure herself that things haven't truly changed. I think you are right to decline. Maybe in a few years, when you've both moved on, you can "fraternize" with your ex in the interest of your daughter at family events. But right now it seems to me that the wounds are much too fresh and painful.

espoir,

My state has similar guidelines to yours, so what she's asking is way out of line. Who knows what she's thinking. If she wants this settled quickly, she would have been better off making a more reasonable proposal. I'm sure it's her lawyer stirring the pot.

I haven't delined on the b-day party yet. I figure as the settlement process gets going, she'll change her mind about the party.

Thanks,
sad dad

Learned something interesting today. My W and I had our taxes done, and I found it she makes more than I thought. Our net incomes are only $12,400 apart. That makes her request for me to pay half of everything AND $800/mth even more ridiculous. With what she asking for, her net income including CS would be $400/mth more than mine. It's laughable.

sad dad