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kuljey Offline OP
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i have a appointment w/a reserve lawyer this weekend while they are at army reserve drill. i wanted to ask him via telephone if what WH is doing is considered legal or illegal in the army. he wouldnt just answer over the phone. i wanted to give a fake name but they said that our conversation is confidential. is it? just wanting some input from ppl who may know about this sort of thing. i thought i remember a post on the disciplinary action that could lead to, cant find it. wanted to print it out and take it. WH is in army reserves. just so happens he is drilling this weekend to. i told the lawyer i am afraid of him seeing me. but, this is the only time they can talk.

thanks.

<small>[ April 02, 2003, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: kuljey ]</small>

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Hi Kuljey, I put it in one of your threads, here's a copy of a copy go to the link in the middle:

It is unreasonable for your H to expect you to cover for him with his commander. This is a natural consequence of his actions.

Here's an old post with a link inside it about the regs of Military adultery:

Bluebird
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posted December 17, 2001 10:38 AM
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I was an active du`ty Army officer for 5 years and my SIL is a LTC in the Air Force and is an attorney. The best place to get advice on this issue is from the Staff Judge Advocate General's (JAG) office on base. Adultery is punishable under Article 134 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Article 134 simply prohibits conduct which is of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, or conduct which is prejudicial to good order and discipline. The Uniform Code of Military Justice is a federal statute passed by Congress defining adultery to be a crime.
Adultery, as a military offense, is difficult to prosecute (legally) for several reasons. There are three "Elements of Proof" for the offense of Adultery in the Military:

(1) That the accused wrongfully had sexual intercourse with a certain person;

(2) That, at the time, the accused or the other person was married to someone else; and

(3) That, under the circumstances, the conduct of the accused was to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces.

Element #2 is usually pretty easy for the government to prove. There is normally sufficient written evidence to prove whether or not someone is legally married. (Many folks will be surprised to learn that in the military, a single person can be charged with the crime of adultery).

Element #1 can be very hard to prove. Remember, a court martial (like civilian court) requires *proof* beyond a reasonable doubt. Proof of sexual intercourse normally requires photographs, a confession of one of the parties involved, an eye-witness, or other legally admissible proof. The mere fact that someone stayed over at another individuals house, or even slept with them in the same bed is not proof of sexual intercourse.

Element #3, in many cases, can be the most difficult item to prove. The government must show that the individual's conduct had some direct negative impact on the military. This normally would include cases of fraternization (officer & enlisted) or a relationship with another military member, or a military spouse.

(to read MCM paragraph 60 go here >>> http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/bladulterydefinition.htm )

This officer, be he a LT or an LTC, has received numerous hours of instruction on military justice and standards of conduct. If this officer can't behave in an appropriate manner, then he needs to get out. Being a LT doesn't matter. If he can't have the integrity to keep his fly zipped around married women, what will his integrity be when it comes to making decisions in combat or for the welfare of his troops? It is obvious that this type of selfish, arrogant behavior has no place in military service.

The number of Air Force courts martial for adultery rose from 20 in 1986 to 67 ten years later. Most adultery prosecutions have resulted in guilty verdicts. In addition to the Elements of Proof, the "Explanation" section of paragraph 62 of the Manual for Courts Martial (MCM) now requires that cases of adultery be handled at the lowest appropriate level. This requirement, along with the included list of factors a commander is supposed to use to investigate an allegation of adultery, is fairly new. It was added in 1998 (after the Kelly Flynn case). Partially because of Kelly Flynn, (and possibly because of the Commander-in-Chief's situation with Monica Lewinski), then Secretary of Defense William Cohen spear-headed the change. This means that most cases of alleged adultery will normally be handled by informal, or administrative means, rather than by court martial or article 15 (nonjudicial punishment). Unless, of course, there are extenuating circumstances, such as fraternization or sex with a minor.

This does not mean, however, that service members are free to shack up with whomever they please. Commanders have a lot of discretion when it comes to administrative procedures, and administrative actions (such as reprimands, denial of promotions, performance report remarks, etc.) are not governed by the relatively strict legal requirements of the UCMJ or MCM.

Having been an active duty Army officer, I have no patience or sympathy for anyone in a leadership position behaving in this manner. You are held to high moral and ethical standards when you accept the honor of being commissioned as an officer in the Armed Forces. The Air Force has a mission to accomplish, and when you voluntarily come into the Air Force, you come into it on their terms. You’re not free to do everything you’re free to do when you’re a civilian. You give up a lot of the liberties that civilians enjoy, and that’s part of what military service entails.

At least the military puts some teeth into punishing adulterers if it is discovered but it can't be discovered if your son does not report it! I certainly think reporting it to the officer's commander is a first step but, wow, you have to have some proof.

Hope this helps,

Bluebird

<small>[ April 02, 2003, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: Lor (Lor) ]</small>

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Kuljey,
Adultry is one of the hardest things to prove in the military. Yes, they do put up a strong front, but the bottom line is you almost have to have photo's or video footage for them to take it to the level of punishment that it deserves. 99% of the time the soldier will be called in and verbally counseled about their inappropriate action. Ocassionally they may recieve a written counseling, or letter of reprimand.

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They won;t do anything without a video or photos of the two people actually having sex.

I had printed out doucuments from our computer showing my ssgt husband giving out his military email addy to speak sexually with women at work and to send their plans re. where to meet for sex dates to his work...and I added to that by showing that I was in class at the exact times these screen shots were captured with letters from professors at my school (no one else lives with us). I even had offered to surrender my computers to their computer foensics people in their special investigations because I knew he had downloaded and traded child porn and they said they could find it if he did. I had more of those pronted screen shots of him requesting child pix.

Nothing happened. My stbxh said he was being put under investigation...but I dont even know if they really went that far or told him to say that to me so I'd leave them alone and keep my mouth shut. I had spoken to his boss--a mst sgt as well as OSI.

My advise to you is to go up the chain of command as high as they will let you. You don;t have to follow the order like they do. And the guys who work day-to-day with the person in question tend to be more protective and chummy/good ol'boy-like with their troops...but higher up guys..like squadren commander would be good...they tend to take infractions and dumb crap their guys do a lot more seriously.

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kuljey Offline OP
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i have a microcaset tape w/him telling me why he left to be w/his whore. he made one for me, the 5 yr old and the 11 yr old. the 11 yr olds has reference to he is leaving to be w/the whore. is that helpful.

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A lot depends on who he works for. If someone up his chain of command has a strong moral backbone, they can make his life tough without taking it to courts martial. After all, this is the person who writes his evaluations, approves his leave, etc.

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Dobie is right. Many times it works out well just to have pressure put on him. I would go forward with what you have and see what they say. But, don't get your hopes up.

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kuljey Offline OP
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my wh stopped his direct deposit. he is at reserves today and all weekend. so i called there to ask him why he did that..etc. they gave him the msg and he didnt call back. i called a 2nd time and the guy said he is going to pass this information on to his higher up and have him counseled about it. i told him i want to talk to him. wh never called!!

so the OW has my husband, my kids father and now his money!

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The military requires he is support you as long as you are married. He is getting paid based on the number of dependents he has. If he is NOT supporting you, contact his unit commander and the base legal office/judge advocate.

Simply stopping direct deposit doesn’t mean he is not supporting you. If he does not give you money, that is no support.

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kuljey Offline OP
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met with the lawyer. they basically do wills and powers of attorney. apparently cuz he is in the reserves the military doesnt really care!


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