Hi all.
Been Plan A:ing for exactly 4 wks and something is working.

I have found my long lost desire for my H, due to the A. It has been a wake up call for myself. I have been half a woman, having no desire for sex for years due to my H not meeting my EN. Turns out his biggest EN was SF, so he went elsewhere to find it. Now the OW is an Emotional AND sexual affair, which has left us swimming in very dangerous waters.

My H has obviously not gotten into full withdrawal as he is being open and honest with me, like never before. I can´t get enough of him and he can´t get enough of me. My plan A on meeting his EN´s (his biggest one IS Sexual fulfillment) is just so easy, because the flame that has been burning within me has just been waiting to be fired up. I didn´t even think SF was such a big need in me, but obviously years of undernourishment in that area has pushed me over to the other side of wanting SF daily!!!

He is having an affair and the OW is feeling like it is her that is being cheated upon (she said that, my H told me).I don´t think my H is actually telling her exactly what we are doing, how we are experimenting with each other on all sexual levels, if she knew I think she would run....

My H and I are planning to go to London this weekend and outlive some of our fantasies. I don´t have a problem with this because I figure if he chooses her, there is no one else I would rather experience living out those fantasies with than with my H. I have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

My H talks to me. He asked me to come and watch him hold a business presentation for some students which opened my eyes and heart to understand what it is he is doing.I told him how proud I was of his presentation and that why didn´t he ever invite me to things like that before as it gave me a better understanding of his business. HE got tears in his eyes and said he never thought I was interested...

Now I know this sounds all too rosy to be true. It isn´t. Tonight he is in another city sleeping with her and comes home first tomorrow. My heart is being torn out of my breast thinking about it.

Before he left I told him that he needed to make a choice as this was not fair to any of us and that we ALL (including OW) deserved to move on with our lives. OW is waiting for him to make a decision, but has not told her own spouse yet of their A. (So she is not as certain about my H as she thinks she is...)

I have asked my H what his plans are if we seperate? Will he move country to be with her and abandon his children? He replied that he would take half the responsibility of the kids and the OW would move to the location of his choice close to kids. This was such a relief. OW doesn´t know what she is getting into. She has no kids of her own and is willing to become a step mom for 3 small kids? Is she in a fog or what? She has no idea how to make a family work, and that is at least one of the things my H and I have managed to figure out to some satisfaction.

She is 36 yrs and wants kids of her own too. When I asked my H whether this was something that he also wanted he said "I am happy with the 3 we have got, but if she wants kids, I can´t really deny her it...". (should he do that, then he´s back to all the problems me and him were having, because he will expect her to take all responsibility....he is such an EGOIST!!!!)

This is all coming from my man, who has never really been there for our kids cause he has been too busy building his business (following his fathers footsteps...). I have had full responsibility of everything that is taken care of at home - making things work, so he gets to fulfill his dream. And now he is talking about taking half the responsibility of our children if we seperate. Somehow I can´t even be sad about it if we actually seperate. Imagine, our kids get their father back, because he will have to take a responsibility of their lives because the OW can´t, it´s not her job(she´s not stupid...).

And if we should seperate, I would get to begin to build my own life fulfilling my own dreams and desires, because half the time I could get to be 100% egoistic, the other half time be there 200% for my kids with an energy I have not had before as I have basically been all on my own with the responsibility of them.

I am really not scared of us breaking up anymore. I just look forward to my H making a decision so we can move forward.

That is why the SF of our marriage right now is so exhiliarating. I (and my H) have found the woman in me. I can remember my fantasies, my desires, my hopes and dreams again. Plan A is not just his EN, but also mine.

My H was radically honest with me yesterday and said some yrs ago he payed for 2 black prostitutes to entertain him. I wasn´t even shocked. I just asked him, if that was what you wanted why didn´t you tell me. Let me be a part of what it is you wanted...maybe I could have given it to you or been a part of it... He was astounded on how well I took it. I was astounded on how well I took it and told him the thing that hurt most about that was that he kept it secret from me.

This is how my Plan A is going and I have to tell you all my MB friends, I think it is quite essential that once you do not fear that you may end up in divorce, the Plan A is so much easier. It is still a rollercoaster ride though.(I will have to take sleeping pills tonight to get my mind off him and OW in bed together).

And we have not even got close to the issues of what my H´s done to contribute to the terrible state of our marriage. Right now it is just about what I have done and how I plan to amend those.

I´m trying my best.

P.S
This is still one of my better days. The days that are worse are days when I basically can´t breathe, where I shake uncontrollably and am in sheer panic on how I will ever manage this all and feel like packing my bags and dissappearing forever....It is not as easy as my text appears to be, I promise....

Queen, where is the asking H to have NC with OW? To work on salvaging your marriage? I commend you for your honesty and the plan A work. But I somehow feel you may be giving your H the idea that it's ok to continue this A? Ok to meet his needs as he wishes?
For instance, taking the two prostitutes so calmly? Or having offered to be a part of it?
Maybe we're just different cultures, but that is not ok! First, it's breaking his commitment to you. Second is the danger of STD's.
By meeting his needs now for SF, I think you're doing ok since you had held off for years as you said. If this was his reason for cheating, he no longer has that excuse, now does he?
Hope you can get your H to break it off and spend his energy trying to save your marriage.
So far, he's just getting his cake and eating it too!
God bless, LouLou

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But I somehow feel you may be giving your H the idea that it's ok to continue this A? Ok to meet his needs as he wishes? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am telling him as often as I can that he has to make a choice. That either he wants to fight for our marriage or he doesn´t. I can´t tie him to the bed every time he is planning a business trip to her city. She is his biggest client and right now our childrens mouthes are being fed by the money from the company she is a manager for. So the situation is trickier than it seems. He is cornered and risks losing his business (and then losing us, cause I have already been through one bankrupcy with him, don´t think I could handle another...)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ...taking the two prostitutes so calmly? Or having offered to be a part of it?
Maybe we're just different cultures, but that is not ok ...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes I suprised myself on that one too. Can´t figure out why it did not shock me so much. I think somehow I was just happy that he dared to tell me all his secrets. It was more like "cleaning the air" experience. He paid for these 2 girls and he actually said it didn´t work out because he couldn´t get it up and the reason for that was because they were prostitutes and he needs to be more emotionally involved before it can work for him. I listened and somehow understood. He was in a situation he needed to try out, but the hurt was in the fact that he did not want to share that "fantasy" with me.

I don´t think it has anything to do with cultures. I just think that we all have our limits and boundaries and we just all need to know what lines we are willing to cross and what lines we are not, as long as we are not causing physical or mental pain to one another/others in the process of finding or crossing those boundaries. I think I would have been willing to accept that fantasy as long as I would have been a part of it. Like holding his hand and making him feel safe while fulfilling it. Sorry if that shocks you, but that is just who I am.

But you are right, not sharing those thoughts with me were breaking his commitment to me. Absolutely.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> By meeting his needs now for SF, I think you're doing ok since you had held off for years as you said. If this was his reason for cheating, he no longer has that excuse, now does he? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, his reasons are many and one of them (probably the main reason)is that he is head over heels in love with the OW. My goal is to get him to have NC with her, to work on us. My plan A is to get him to break that contact by being the best person I could ever be in this realtionship or in any relationship to be. So far I have not succeeded on getting him to feel safe enough to trust that we can work this out. To trust that I am serious when I say that I am willing to make changes in myself for the better. He has 4 weeks proof, I don´t know whether that is enough yet. I am struggling to find the balance of when to move from Plan A to Plan B where I have no contact with him.

I do not dare do that right now, because we are connecting. Like he said, "I feel like I am falling in love with you all over again".

I think time is important here and I am blindly believing in a wise saying, " patience is a virtue". So I am being patient and happy that he is continuing to be honest. That is better than him coming up with cover up stories after all...I do not want ANY MORE LIES, even if the truth hurts.

-queen-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So far, he's just getting his cake and eating it too! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And yes...you could not be more right about that one. He is a CAKEMAN in gigantic letters!

Hello Queen,

Your situation sounds very like mine, and your H much like mine in his input into the family and focus on his career etc. Like you, our sf has become fantastic since the A came to light. the OW lives 250 miles away so sex is not a big issue thoughit has happened more than once but it is mainly EA. Thanks to modern communication he gest to talk/email her at work with no interference.

I wanted to warn you against enabling his A to continue. My first D Day was in may 2002 and may last D Day was Valentine's day-and yet there have been plenty of times when we have gotten on so well and our R is better than ever. My H is a cakeater who can't make a decision so just cruises and lets me run his life as usual and the OW pursue him.

As a result I am losing the love i have fought so hard to rekindle, my love for H.

The OW is also 36, no kids, was in a long term relationship, now is alone. I would advise tell her H! I chose not to do so and wish I had, much earlier. He found out anyway.But it might have put more pressure on.

I wish you well. Set boundaries and don't let him do the cakewalk.

Regards, Deluded.

PS are you in the UK?

Thanks for your response. No I´m not in the U.K but in Scandinavia, but I am British.

I wanted to ask you something (others also welcome to answer on experience)! Did you tell him that he had to have no contact with the OW in order to get on with your marriage and if you did how did he take it?

My problem is that asking him for No contact to OW right now would make me feel like I am love bustering him and he will feel like I have no understanding whatsoever of what it is he is going through. I can see the discussion already now;
"Can´t you see how split I am, I love two women and I don´t want to lose the OW, the least I can do is be friends with her if I do not choose her...I have to talk to her anyway cause she is my biggest client..."

He knows also that if he chooses her (over me) there will always be contact with me because of the kids, so she would never be in the position to ask him for that.

So with me he really has to lose her, but with her he gets to keep me in his life somehow no matter what.

Remember he is incapable of seeing what I am going through or what it is he is putting me through because he is in love/ in the fog of the century. And that my Plan A is to make him feel safe enough to want us. How do I put it through to him without making it sound like a selfish demand, without making him feel unsafe and to get him to understand that any other way would not be able to work. Without Love bustering.

I am really really lost here, because I have been putting so many deposits in his bank I don´t want to risk them all being taken back out again by expressing my demand for No contact the wrong way.

And I HAVE to put that demand out there, so he knows what to relate to.When do I do it? How do I do it?

Any help on this one?

-queen-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I would advise tell her H! I chose not to do so and wish I had, much earlier. He found out anyway.But it might have put more pressure on.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have really been thinking hard about that and I truly do not want to cause any living person the pain I am going through. This is something the OW has to live with not me. I am not responsible of her M, she is. I have enough trying to be responsible of mine.

Listen to my reasoning.

Just imagine, what if I tell her H (whom I do not know) and he goes totally insane and tries for eg. to kill her or my H? Am I to live with the death of a person because of MY actions? NO WAY!!!! I know I put it in a very extreme light, but what I am trying to say is that you never know the consequences of an action like that, so I prefer not to go there. I believe in higher forces that will take care of the wrongs that people do to each other. I trust and believe that everybody has to face their own wrong doings at some point of life.

-queen-

I think you have been Plan Aing only for a short time. You need more time for it to take effect.
Give it a few more weeks.

While you are doing it you need to be very calm and focused despite the heartbreak. As you Plan A, and are your H's best friend you should subtly remind him of reality. It sounds like you've been doing this.

DON'T TELL family or friends yet if possible. Save that as ammunition for later if you need it.

Right now you are making him comfortable, being his friend, reconnecting with him. Rebuilding your relationship. But, keep reminding him that there is that other life he can have. He can go off with OW, your heart will be broken, and you will not be his friend- it would be too painful. You would have to cut the love for him out of your heart so you could move on and heal and go on with your life.

Of course you will be gracious and act in the best interests of the children in coparenting with him, but you're sure he and OW will manage well. Since she's no doubt planning on having that baby with your H, you're certain she'll quickly pick up the knack of mothering all of the children and actually since he's an experienced father you're sure he'll pull the slack. Refer to such things calmly and sweetly. Make it clear he will not dump all the parenting on you. YOu are doing it right from what you say in your post.

Get as strong as you can girl.

My situation was somewhat similar. A younger married OW who thought my H was the answer to all her dissatisfactions with her own H. She lived very far from us. She had no kids and couldn't comprehend the pain my children would go through in a divorce. Was laughably unequipped to deal with kids period. And of course she wanted to have kids eventually- my H deep down didn't want to emphatically. He's satisfied and done with changing diapers. She would have been happy to destroy my family and did all she could... but my H did wake up before it was too late and realized what he had to lose.

I don't know about telling her H yet. I would wait on that. I did call OW and I told her that I loved my H and that my children would be devastated by a divorce. I was calm and gracious. I asked her if she wanted kids and she said yes and I asked her to please not trap my H into leaving with a pregnancy. I told her I would not trap my H into staying with a pregnancy- this threw her for a loop as she suddenly realized this must mean we were having SF. You have to be very careful if you talk to OW. Really strategic- it's war. She doesn't care a bit about you or your feelings. However, if you are gracious and seem human to her, it may unsettle her. Mainly talking to OW helped me because I realized during our conversation she was just a deluded fool. Same as you- she even admitted she didn't know anything about kids, and I have 3 as well- 2 of whom were pre teens and they would have spit in her face!

I did have to get tough with my H to get him to kick the addiction and go for No Contact. And withdrawal lasted a while. Not so much that my H missed her but that he felt ****ty about what had happened and ****ty about his life.

At some point you need to make it clear to both her and him that if it doesn't stop the affair will be exposed to her H. After all it isn't fair to her H to be in the dark. Say things to your H like "it really isn't fair- she's making a cuckold of her poor husband and he doesn't even know it" (you can add, I would never treat you in that way) Hopefully that will plant in your H's head that if she is the type to cuckold her current H it might be him sometime.

Also as well as working on SF with your H reiterate his value as part of your intact family. Family pictures, reinforce how important he is to the kids, do some activities all of you together. How old are your kids?

Thank your for your responses, I can´t even begin to tell how good it is to hear what others have done in similar situations

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">DON'T TELL family or friends yet if possible. Save that as ammunition for later if you need it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I´m afraid I have already told closest family and friends when I was paralysed of shock and panic on what to do. The good thing about this is that I went to his parents - (I know many would disagree that this was a good thing) butmy H has previously always had a good relationship with them until he kicked his mom out of our house last Xmas.

I went to them and told them that I was fed up of us having no contact because of the conflict my H was having with them and it was beginning to effect our children. They did not deserve not having contact with thier grandparents. I told them about the situation and told them that I had to tell them because the kids are going to need their support. They were so happy that I came to them and now had the chance to see the little ones(and of course also sad because of our marital situation). I told them I was concerned for their son, but did not want them to get involved because the reason we are in this situation is due to us both. I also told them that I love their son deeply and our family life together and I was going to do everything in my power to fix it.

They call me daily to hear how it is doing, glad to have any contact or info on how their son is doing. Today is the smallest ones birthday and I have invited them over and my H actually feels happy that he did not have to solve this conflict by himself, that I have helped him.

My H is such a conflict avoider you would not believe it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Make it clear he will not dump all the parenting on you. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am trying to make it clear to him and thank you so much for the advice of being gracious, calm and sweet telling him that I am sure the OW will pick up the knack of parenting and that my H will also pull his own slack being the experienced father he is.

That advice was so much needed as I think I would have done the opposite, trying to give him a reality check and said
" ...she has no idea of what kids are, she´ll never be able to pull it through and neither will he because of his egoistic personality".. but that would have been a major LB , at least I think. Then he may have begun to defend himself and want to prove that I do not know him at all and what it is he and she are capable of, since they are so wonderful with each other. I know that it will not work, but being gracious as you say, will give him food for REAL thought.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mainly talking to OW helped me because I realized during our conversation she was just a deluded fool. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don´t need to talk to the OW because I really know she is a deluded fool. Come on, I have the power to go to the Vice president of her company, which is her direct boss and tell him the situation with my H and her, and that she is giving him projects worth a lot of money and of my fear that if my H wants to cut it off with her she has the power to bring his company down. She will be fired in a split second. I know it because that is the company policy. Just the fact that if it gets out that she is involved with a supplier will get her fired. Her company is so involved in ethics.

She is so deluded, she has no idea what she is doing businesswise (she is also scare of the power I have there, but I will not use it until my H tells me that now he wants out and he can´t)She has no idea what she is getting into with 3 kids of 10yrs, 5 yrs and 2 yrs and me who will be willing to coparent with my H, but she will not have the possibility to ever have a say, because these are OUR kids, not hers!!!! Deluded isn´t even the word, she is actually damn right stupid.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did have to get tough with my H to get him to kick the addiction and go for No Contact. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please, how did you do that? What do you mean tough. Plan B? What?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">At some point you need to make it clear to both her and him that if it doesn't stop the affair will be exposed to her H. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But is that really my responsibility? Isn´t that a threat and therefore a major LB. He will feel unsafe with me and that would be destroying Plan A of making him feel safe and trusting that we will work it out. I can get it out to the H other ways than it being me, but I am positive this will come out at some point anyway on its own accord. It will, because if I know my H, and he is sure that it is her he wants (or she keeps telling him he will divorce H as soon as he makes a choice), he will tell her that she has to tell H to prove her words. Else then she is just LB him and he won´t trust what she says to him because she won´t take the actions.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you can add, I would never treat you in that way) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good advice because I wouldn´t and he needs to know it. Food for thought again.

Thank you for some great advice

-queen-

Hi Queen,

There is some good advice from Espoir, although I think there is an argument to tell the OW's H sooner rather than later, particularly in a situation where he is vacillating between you and OW.
As I said before, you can create a situation where you are making life with you great, but he can see OW at work, trips away etc. By letting the affair see the light of day, that becomes much more difficult. Affairs thrive on deceit and lies, remember?

Whether you do or don't tell the H, you are only responsible for your actions. If you do tell him and he does something violent, that is HIS responsibility, not your's , and the source of the distress is his WW, not you.Do you see? Truth is never bad,except in certain extreme situations. So maybe don't tell him, but be ready to do so and make sure your H knows that if contact continues, you will.

You must make NC not negotiable otherwise this recovery of yours is false. You can be nice and understanding about it but he needs to be clear about actions and consequences, just like one of your children!

Don't forget, you are both responsible for the state of your marriage,is he prepared to acknowledge his part in what went wrong that allowed the A to happen? Be strong, not doormatty.

Deluded

On telling OW's H... Yes, he may have to know eventually but I think that Queen needs to make sure her Plan A is a little more solid before taking that route. One month of Plan A is not that long. Although I don't recommend Plan Aing go on forever.

As you plan A- 1) ignore some evidence of the affair since you need to be nice to him and repair your relationship. Pretend you trust him, don't "catch" him everytime. 2) when you are confronted with direct evidence of the A, make it clear, calmly, that you are very hurt, that it is intolerable and that he will have to choose.

During this time, calmly discuss the consequences and discuss how you will set up sep and D. During the 6 weeks while my H was on the fence, planning on moving out, I set up sample visitation schedules for him. I made it clear he would come pick up the kids and bring them to his place. He quickly realized his plans to move to a country place 2 hours from our home were unrealistic. Eventually he realized the whole idea was a huge mistake.

Telling the OW's H is ammunition... don't waste it. At some point, once NC is initiated, you will tell OW that if she continues to contact your H you will tell her husband. I think the point is to set up the telling of the H as a CONSEQUENCE of the continued A.

Never attack the OW directly- it will force your H to defend her. I found that in fact when I told my H stuff like- I can't win this battle- of course you'll be happier with this ten years younger, gorgeous, hot professional OW- my H would end up putting the OW down, telling me that she wasn't so attractive, he wasn't really into her etc. and he would praise my good qualities.

The best thing is to layer those things in- say stuff like- I guess you'll move on to your new family- you'll be happy with OW and your new baby (trust me, I bet your H does not want a new baby) while I will try to survive and heal my broken heart. Make it clear you will be noble, but not a push over. You can say to your H- I know this time you'll probably be making up for the time you lost with our children- when you were so busy with work- OW will no doubt need your help with parenting since you are such an experienced father.

How often does he have to go to OW's city? How often is he getting to see her and have sex with her? Because that affects things- you can't tolerate that for very long.

Keep yourself up to date with his plans. Remember, it's one thing for him to say he is going to move out- another thing for him to actually do it. Let him talk and plan. But make it clear- 1- when and if he moves out, you won't be "friends" and you want a separation agreement in writing detailing support obligations and visitation. 2- if he wants to be with you, he will need to end the affair and commit to a recovery plan, you respect him too much to allow him to live a life of lying and cheating.

Try to educate him a bit about the mechanics of affairs, how they start, the statistics, what made him vulnerable, the high caused by the affair. Explain what no contact is and that it will be hard and difficult- like giving up smoking but it is doable. Explain there is a period of withdrawal. Tell him that you believe you two can create a satisfying M together, that recovery is possible. But an affair does cause alot of damage and if he continues recovery will be more and more difficult.

It's OK that you told inlaws and great about their reaction. Just don't trash H to the whole town. If he stays, he needs to be able to still have some self respect and not feel like a fool in front of everybody. Shame will make him want to run. Notice he has picked this indeterminate location where he will move with OW. Because he wants a fresh start where people don't know him and he won't feel embarrassed.

Interesting that OW will move to the "location of his choice". Wonder if Ow knows that? My H told me that OW wouldn't even be living with him that she would be getting her own apartment nearby. Needless to say that was not how OW was picturing it!

When I talk about Plan B. Once you feel like you are fairly well bonded with H, he will love it, but he will try to keep the stuff with OW going. At that point you will have to tell him to move out, since a life of dishonesty will be disrespectful to both him and you. Remember you respect him too much to let him live the life of a liar and a cheater. You don't believe that is the kind of person he is! If he can't break it off, then he will just have to leave. Make him find a place or even rent a hotel room (the more temporary the better and let him lie in his bed). then you cut yourself off from him and be sure to make him take the kids.

By the way, while you are plan Aing right now, be sure to do stuff for yourself. Exercise, cultural events, stuff with friends. Do stuff you don't normally do. Go to a smoky jazz club to listen to music or take a walk in the woods. Invite your H but if he won't go go alone or with a friend. Make it clear when he leaves you will not be twiddling your thumbs waiting for him you will be out sampling the wonders of life. (however don't ever threaten him with other men- you are not that type of girl, let him worry about that on his own). Try to get out on your own one time and make him babysit (like on a weekend).

Whatever you do, keep your temper and don't LB. remember LBs are not a reality check or consequence- it's insults, demands, etc. There's a difference between "Cut it off with your sl*t wh*re or I'll kick you out" (LB) and "If you continue the A with OW, I will need you to leave because the heartbreak is unbearable to me" (realistic consequence).

Good luck darlin'. Also bear in mind, due to the financial situation with your H's work and OW, you and your H are going to need to be extra creative in figuring out no contact.

Hello Queen.

I basically agree with everything Espoir has to say.

Wow, Espoir, you wouldn't pop over to my thread for a moment would you? How long is too long for Plan A would you say.?

The best revenge, they say, is to live well. And whilst you do that, you will become happier and more confident and therefore more attractive to your H. And if he can't get his head out of his a*** then you lose a husband but won't miss him much as your life will be full and happy. OK it's simplistic but it is possible!

He needs to understand , somewhere along the line that , actually, he doesn't get to keep you in his life no matter what and that you would aim to have NO relationship with him at all, other than the minimum required as parents, if he leaves. That isn't at all what he wants-he wants you AND OW. He needs to understand he can't have both.

Your financial situation makes it tough. Ours is similar since OW works for a pharmaceutical company that has a lot to do with my H and he has to have some contact with her division , but not necessarily her. It's really hard, and is probably the reason contact has dragged on for so long.

I hope you are feeling ok.It can be quite soul destroying,especially if you are away from home. Are you well established where you are?

Best wishes,
Deluded

Dear Queen:
You said something in your first post on here that is ringing big alarms with me and I hope against Hope that I misunderstood you. You said you are going to London to fufill some fantasies. I hope this doesn't mean sexual fantasies with others involved.

If am wrong, please let me know! I know there are some on this board who have lived through it and are dealing with the fallout of this type of thing.

That said, I believe you should call the OW and tell her that if she doesn't tell her H, you will. Or perhaps you could do it anonymously. But I am a firm believer that he should be told. So there's a vote for that side.

Your H and OW are so deeply in fog that there is no reasoning with either one of them. If you read on this website at all, you will find all the things being said by your WH are stuff said by all of them. He hasn't said one word we all haven't heard before. It's almost like a play or Cliffnotes of a play that they all buy at the Infidelity Bookstore. I'm just saying this so you will know we ALL have gone through this before you. You are not alone in this by any means.

Good luck, you have a long road ahead.
DB

Thank you for the absolutely great responses and just got back from the wildest weekend in London.

I am really truly confused now. Fulfilled but confused. Amazed but confused. As dazed blonde said

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You said something in your first post on here that is ringing big alarms with me and I hope against Hope that I misunderstood you. You said you are going to London to fufill some fantasies. I hope this doesn't mean sexual fantasies with others involved.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is exactly what the fantasy (this fantasy has been equally his and mine) was about. And we experienced it, and it was amazing, more fantastic than I would have believed. I have to underline to anybody reading this post I was the one that wanted to do this. WHY? Because my H and I we are a fantastic looking couple. Because I love him and I know he has a big enough heart to be able to deal with fulfilling this fantasy. Because he is the only man I have ever met I would want to try this with. Because I have a side to myself that is also attracted to women and I needed to know how real that attraction is. The attracton is real enough.

BUT

Because of the amazing experience we countered in London, my H is now 100% certain that he has the capacity to love and care for two women. He is now asking me to relate to the possibility of having a life together with another woman. I was honest with him. This experience was living out a fantasy and the fantasy turned out to be more amazing than I had imagined.

But to live a life like that? I truly do not know whether I have the capacity of loving two people equally. I think that in my mind I am monogomaus. My H is now CERTAIN this is how he wants to live his life. I am NOT. I am interested in the experimenting but to actually involve that to the point of our real life, our children etc...I really do not know!

.. maybe, because I do have that side to me that can see the benefits of the situation. My first sexual relationship was for a year with a girl. But I was only 15 and the reason that came about was that she was my best friend until one day she told me she was lesbian. Instead of abandoning her I helped her come to terms with it. Be sexually unexperienced myself, I involved myself with her, enjoying our relationship because I really loved her. And then I broke her heart because it was getting too much. I felt like I was doing it for her and did not know who I was. SO I broke it off and started dating men.

And I have to say that I have never experienced such a warm and loving and understanding, tender relationship with any man than I did with her. But pure sexually I am into men. Mentally into women. Does this make any sense. Men can give me one thing and women another. So am I in the right kind of relationship. Is the optimal relationship the one my H is certain he now wants.

I am so confused right now, find it really hard to digest all of it an dknow what I want and where I stand.

The OW is not so much an issue in my mind anymore. Probably because my H said to me that she will never be able to give him what he wants and that this life (as a threesome) is what he is sure about. That he is finally freed?!!!

Well, I´m not. I REALLY need to chill out and I am flying alone to my best friend on Wednesday and coming back on Easter Sunday (to be with my kids), while my H takes care of our children.

HELP!!!!!!

What is happening here? My fantasy has already taken a turn into becoming a real life issue? What is going through my H head, it seems like he is hopping from one cloud to another, one foggy state to another.

He even said it will be easier to break off the relationship to the OW now, because he can see the light of our relationship and how we can develop as a couple. He has got something to look forward to that excites him and fulfils him.

I know I am going to get bombarded with posts like; don´t you think you did this just to fulfil his fantasy and get him back etc... NO. I did this for me and it was on my conditions only, not his. (Of course i took his feelings into consideration so he would not feel intimidated and made him feel loved and cared and this was something we shared together)

But the development after fulfilling this fantasy was not quite what I expected!!!!!

Please help with a bit of advice here. Is my H just being the biggest egoist on earth with NO realistic insight on what life/people are all about??????? I really feel like he is so emotionally immature and I am not so sure I can handle that immaturity in him!

-queen-

Wow your H must feel like King Pin at the moment-he has an OW at work and his W is happy to consider setting up a threesome with another woman.

What happened to your marriage vows? If you don't want sexual and emotional exclusivity why did you make a commitment?

Is this message of how to run a relationship one you are happy to show to your children?

It seems to me there is a fairly big step from having a threesome with your H to wanting to live like that? But in your previous posts you wanted to work on your relationship with your H and establish NC with the OW. Now you say you are considering not only welcoming an OW into your home but having a R with her also.

I will be interested to see other's replies but I think now that you are in some sort of fog too.

Hi deluded and thanks,

Just read your thread and think you are being so composed and doing beautifully. I think you have reached a situation that may be a major breakthrough for the both of you. I will promise to try to go into your thread and give more feedback as soon as I am off work.

You are so right! I think I am in some kind of fog right now. I really am lost on what it is I am doing. Destroying myself? Untrue to myself? Punishing myself? I know I said that this was my fantasy too. But I am really questioning myself why I have done it? Why now? Why? Why? Why?

Yes, I do love my H. But no, I do not trust him. To do what we did this weekend means I should be able to trust him. I feel really f#&¤?"!d up in my mind at the moment.

No, I do not want this "fantasy" to be real life. I do not want my kids to be exposed to this. Or do I???? I really do not know ANYTHING anymore! besides that NOW my H knows what it is he REALLY wants!!!!! Two women in his life. Three people mutually loving and understanding each other.

This does not feel like I am saving my marriage at all to be quite honest. On the other hand, did I do all of this to confirm to myself that deep down I knew that this is what my H wants? Now it´s out in the open so I have to deal with it?

I fulfilled a fantasy but at the same time opened up to a reality?????

I think he IS capable of living in a polygamic relationship. I think that he MAY be serious when he says that is how he wants to live his life. I say may, because he is in such a thick fog, that maybe he does not know what he is saying or doing...

I´m am totally incapable of thinking anything right now.

But I have succeeded in one thing. Putting a lot of doubt on my H feelings for OW and wanting her. He says it was a big mistake. That it was not her he was searching for but the situation we experienced in the weekend. The feeling and power of being able to care for 2 women simultaneously. And seeing the possibilities in making that work ALL ways. (yeah right, we need to be three people to have the exact same feelings of the situation, how realistic is that - not very).

Right now he is asking me to be patient, not give up on him as his love for me has reached levels he never ever anticipated.

Good god, what have we done?

Am I in a F#%&?#d situation or what? And who can I pat on the back for it? Hmmm....ME <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Well done me!!!! Talk about being gracious and composed! I´m just about as bad as he is!

-queen-

I am in a bit of panic right now.

My H just called to say that he had to fly to London again today, coming back Wednesday when I am flying to see my best friend, so we won´t see each other before Easter Sunday.

O.K. A few things are going through my mind;

1) Is he going to meet the girl we met, he has her number. She´s expecting us to contact her again sometime in the future.

2) Is OW joining him?

3) Is he really getting a kick out of this whole situation and planning a deja-vu of the weekend situation with me,him and girl and recreating it, him, OW and girl, to see how OW handles it?

Where does that leave me?

I do not trust my H one little bit right now.

I have f#&%¤&d up so badly, allowing a fantasy to be realized in an explosive situation like ours. Thought I was intelligent. Feel SO stupid!

-queen-

Queen..They ALL want/wish for two women!! What man would not?? I believe that ideally is what every man wants, if he would admit it..NOT pretty but..whatever

But for you, is it a fantasy come true or could you REALLY deal with the reality..What if he got tired of one of his women,..would he still cheat,when the novelty wore off?

If he does meet up with the woman in London, he is cheating on you and the OW...both of whom he professes to love..while breaking everyone's heart in the process..and getting fabulously laid!! LUCKY GUY..

Is that what YOU want? What,other than the weekend fun, do you get out of all this..or the OW ,for that matter? The only one doing what he wants is your H..I am CERTAIN he is viewing your confusion as some weird permission..If he does involve the OW with the woman in London, what is the result of that..will you be welcoming the OW into your home,if she is "into it"..and helping raise her future kids..all in the same bed with YOUR H!!?? Can you honestly DO that??

I KNOW you are PLan Aing...but you are also letting him talk you into your confusion..This guy sounds like he talks a VERY good game..I would wager he tries to make you feel odd for not accepting all this "civilized" behavior..That's called rationalization..justification..He is probably trying to convince himself as well..That this lifestyle is OK.

Time, IMHO, for YOU to decide ,well and truly, WHAT you are willing to tolerate..b/c recovery is terribly difficult,even with counseling and two VERY comitted people..When one of you is not especially committed, it will be impossible..If neither of you are, WHY BOTHER!?

Set YOUR boundaries and be sure he knows the consequences of his actions,should he cross YOUR boundaries..If it's OK with you that he sleep with the OW whenever he feels like it,perhaps you should inform him that you will date as well..If it's NOT OK for him to sleep with the OW at will, WHY On EARTH are you tolerating this behavior..Plan A??

God, you guys is this REALLY what Plan A is about? NOW he has said he doesn't really love the OW and it was a big mistake??!!Sure, b/c he gets his two women,his deviant lifestyle, if he stays with you, he thinks.

Again, just MY VERY humble opinion, but WHO does this guy REALLY love? If he will committ to neither of these women b/c NOW he wants to swing, WHO does he LOVE!!??

4 weeks is ,FOR ME ONLY, too long for PLAn A..when I cut my H out,let him go,,was filing for D,and beginning dating, within an hour,he was begging forgiveness and for another chance.ONE HOUR!! I meant it..I would have moved on and he knew it..Stops and starts..broken NC..all kinds of horrible stuff..but we loved each other ONLY..never in question..three years later,almost, we are good,,never to be at the level we were before his affair.and I NEVER did a Plan A..My feeling is he got ONE chance..My heart is already broken,albeit healing, if it happens agian, it will not be so difficult to let him go..because I WILL NOT Tolerate being second...MY boundary!

If you have no boundaries, he will not respect anything you say..b/c he can talk you out of it..Good luck to you..Whatever you decide, I hope YOU will be happy..and healthy and for your children also

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When one of you is not especially committed, it will be impossible..If neither of you are, WHY BOTHER!?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are absolutely right. That was the question of a lifetime. I really do not know whether I am committed anymore. I actually do not know whether I love him anymore. Did I ever? My relationship with him has been one where he flourishes, gets to live out his ambitions and dreams, while my life has been on standby. I´ve just been the "silent" housewife (not that I am that around my friends and work, because everyone sees me as a lively, happy, social person). But around him I have felt choked by his personality that fills up the room and gives no space for anyone else. This has never been me and for sure it never will.

I guess the reason I went to live out that fantasy was the willing to feel alive and excited about life again. And it worked. I do. Because of this affair I do not feel like I am swimming in a long dark tunnel, I feel like I am finally alive again, have feelings and dreams and wants again. My eyes are shining again because I actually feel like there is a fantastic future ahead of me. Because I will not tolerate a life like this with/ without my H anymore.

And maybe my H is also seeing me "flower" and that is why he feels like he is falling in love with me again. This woman has come to life and is absolutely certain never to fall to death again!

He is actually a bit scared that he may lose the woman that is truly there. I admit I have not been a good wife. I have not cherished him, loved him. Just made sacrifices hoping he would notice and be there for me. He wasn´t because he was too busy with himself - you know the vicious circle was way too hard to break because it was a way of living.

Am I committed to salvaging our relationship? Is he? I do not think he is? I am not sure I am. But I guess I still need time to see whether I am. So Plan A is for me too.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WHO does this guy REALLY love? If he will committ to neither of these women b/c NOW he wants to swing, WHO does he LOVE!!?? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don´t know. I really don´t know. Anyone good looking with a nice personality that will say YES to him???? He´s probably just thinking, "wow my W fulfilled and shared her fantasy with me. You know this could really work. We could be a big happy family!"

My boundaries are set. The OW will NEVER be a part of MY life. And yes I should not tolerate that he is sleeping with her. It should be my boundary too. That is why I cannot help feeling - do I really care. You know it does not bother me as much as I thought it would. Of course it hurts, but the hurt feels more like being the second choice kind of hurt. Not "but if you love me you would not be doing this" kind of hurt. Which then brings me back to the question do I really love him? Am I committed to him?

Maybe I am more ready to move on with my life than I thought.

He did go to London today with her by the way. I was furious. Told him that he was destroying every good an loving feeling we experienced together in the weekend. Asked him if he was going to call London woman to recreate situation. He told me I had not been listening to him and that he would never do that. He just needed to talk to OW about the feelings he is having for me at the moment.(Why the H&%¤# does he need to talk to her about my feelings and his????? I don´t get it!)

Funny thing is he had to go to London for some immediate business meetings. He is out of cash. Suprise suprise, OW offers to pay for his plane tickets and wants to join. I get the feeling he is using her a bit. He even told me that she offered to pay our house rent beg. of this month if he had trouble digging up the money because his clients were not paying their bills on time. What a saint she is! How helpful and considerate. Thankfully he declined, it would have torn me to bits knowing she was paying for our home.

What in the world does this say about the situation? During Easter she is going skiing in Switzerland with her H and she is planning to tell her H. I´ve got the feeling that my H is going to try to talk her out of it, because then the spot he is in is just going to get tighter....

I really have trouble setting those boundaries. For you , wounded, I can understand that your Plan A was so short. You have had a 29yr marriage and some of it must have been good. We have had a 8 yr relationship where 4 of them we have been married and hardly any of it was good. I was unhappy, so was he.

So it makes sense your Plan A was shorter. And what I have understood about Plan A , it is for the BS, not the WS. It is for me to be a better me. The best of the best. So my Plan A may actually take longer. I need to really find who it is I am and what it is I really want. Do I love my H? How do I see my/our/kids future? Being in the Plan A in the marriage for ME gives me a sense of security (purely economical) and gives me the chance to plan ahead. Put some money aside. Rearrange my job, my life.

My Plan A is pretty calculative, but it has to be. All Plan A´s are that. Mine is different in the sense that if I can be a better me and my H sees that, respects that and believes we have something in common, we can talk about trying to salvage our M. OR If he does not see that and respect it and want to salvage it, I know it was never meant to be anyway! Then the love & commitment was never there from his behalf anyway.

And in this situation I WILL NOT give my H the easy way out. He will make the choice not me. Because he needs just for once in his life to take the responsibility of his actions. I have NEVER seen him do that, because he avoids conflicts & decisions at all costs. If that means he has to run back and forward between me and her FINE! He´ll be love bustering both of us to the extent that when he finally does make his choice neither of us will be around.

So my Plan A is to sort me out given the time I need to do it AND stretch the situation to the point that my H has to make a decision.

I have told him that I promise nothing no matter what he decides. But once he has decided we will have to take it from there.Does any of this make ANY sense?

-queen-

Dear Queen:
I think you should talk to TM94 - perhaps start a new thread and ask a question to him. I believe he will shed some light on all of this for you and let you know how living an "open" lifestyle simply does not work.

We are monogomous people. I just can't work any other way. Ask your H to explain to you how this will work?

Do you all live together?
Does he sleep with you one night and her the next?
What if your kids need him? Where will he be?
Does he financially support both wives and kids? And houses, and cars and vacations and clothing and health care?
What about holidays?
What about household chores? He's creating double the work for himself... does he realize that????

It just is not made to work like that. Please talk to TM94.

I'm sorry I got to you after you'd left for London.
DB