Hi all,

I am a newbie to the forum, though I first found MB website almost a year ago when I discovered my WW's A. We have been married for almost 8 years, known each other for 11 years. Met in college. Have three awesome kids, 6, 5 and 2.5 years old. Strong faith in God. My parents divorced when 8y old. Father unfaithful. Believe God hates divorce. I believe it is not God's will.

After DDay 4-1-02, tried my best to do Plan A. Wished I knew about MB and Basic Concepts 10 years ago, because I was a real jerk for most of the marriage. A lot, a lot of LB. Including making the mistake of being unfaithful myself one dreadful, horrifying night.

GOOD news: Both agreed to MC and went for 1 month. WW said NC w. OM, but PI proved otherwise. Came down hard on her, pushed her to file divorce papers 5-1-02. I never wanted D. By 6-15-02, WW said she wanted R, said she wanted to try. I said only if NC with OM. I offered to move to WW hometown to make separation with OM easier. We moved in 7-02. Still unemployed, all living in apt v. 4 bedroom house. Since then, been in MC weekly, both together and individually. Feel I have grown a lot, learned a lot about myself - God has been with me, leading me the whole way. She and I both have been going to great church regularly as well as weekly fellowship with 4 other married couples. Been depositing many EN's for last year, she says I am a great man, great father, very lovable. Being unemployed, I am the primary homemaker. Make her breakfast every morning, buy her gifts, clean, cook, shop for groceries, take her on dates, try to woo her all over again. I think she believes that I love her more than anyone ever has or possibly will, including OM.

BAD news: Have had 3 or 4 D-days since, discovering her on the phone with OM. She says its hard, they are just friends. I have reacted with anger at times, other times understanding. Always insisting that it cease which she would agree to. This weekend - D-day #5, she traveled with friend to Fla. - 4 hours away from OM hometown. Family member saw her at restaurant with OM and confronted her. She came home on Monday. Says she is confused. Says she doesn't want to hurt me. Says she is not sure she does not want to be with him though. Says she has not decided to file papers for D. But I am pretty confident that she is still talking to him. Fortunately, I reacted calmly to the discovery, no anger - frankly it requires too much energy and accomplishes nothing. Going to see MC as usual. I told her I would just love her - I made no threat of moving out, forcing her to, etc. Going on 1 year now and A is still going, she says she loves OM and OM loves her. BTW, he is a single, good looking personal fitness trainer - but a real predator IMHO. He has been with 2 other MW before and at the same time.

Anyway, I feel I should continue with PLAN A, but should I make any demand that all contact with OM stop? Distance (500 miles) separates WW from OM, at least for now. So contact is mostly phone and she is not doing it blatantly in front of me. But she is not engaging with me and she has deceived me about the NC so many times that I can't count. Sometimes I feel like she does not know how to be honest with me. There has been no romance for over a year. She says she feels guilty when she looks at me. She wants to love me, but does not look at me like her husband anymore. I say to myself - I will not file for divorce. She may and I will not want it but will have to accept it. It takes two to make a marriage work. Any advice? I could use it.

My faith in Jesus Christ keeps my hope alive, my strength up and my sanity intact. Without that, I would be dead, emotionally, spiritually and maybe physically.

Thanks in advance,

W.W.J.D.
What Would Jesus Do?

What a very sad story. It really sounds like she is a cakeman who accepts everything you have done by jumping through hoops to please her and love her after everything she has done to you and your marriage. She enjoys the attention and continues to lie and continues contacting the OM. Your letter seems to indicate that she knows no matter what she does you will keep working on the marriage and forgive her. There seems to be no boundaries or consequences to her actions. Where is the motivation for her to change except for hurting you which she continues to do. She continues to be in a fog because you continue to provide a safety net for her no matter what she does. Maybe if she knew that there are consequences to her actions she would come out of the fog and look into reality. As long as you are accepting of this situation she simply does not have to make any choices and can continue to have contact and disrespect you. Where is her motivation not to continue to disrespect you? How do you think she would be reacting if the roles were reversed and you continued to act the way she is acting? Believe it or not but the more you are accepting and forgiving the less attractive and interesting you become in her eyes. These are just my thoughts and I know I am in the minority here but you see the same type of story play out time and again. "No consequences to actions equals no motivation to change." I wish you luck.

wwjd, I have to agree with bryanp. I firmly believe she is in the fog still and shows no sign of coming out of it. Unfortunately, in her eyes, she can 'have her cake and eat it too'. Whether the M was good or bad in the past, she has no idea what she is destroying in you and your family. She has no concept of what she could lose based on her behavior. I also believe it takes two working together to make a M, especially a good one. I heard Dr. Phil once say that a M is not built on 50/50, it should be built on 100/100. It sounds like you are doing a great job on your part, but what is she doing for the M? What is she doing to help you? Anything?

I am not real familiar with plan A or plan B, but I think my points have some validity.

Good Luck.

Click on the link in my signature line, and compare the recommended recovery path to the one you have taken. Read the Plan A/B stuff. Read it again. think long and hard about Plan B. Plan B is not demanding someone divorce.

Last question: Do you know what she gets from the Om that she does not get from you? Do you know how her personal sexual history relates to what is going on between you? Is guilt keeping her from recovery? Is SHE a christian? Before her affair, my wife's guilt kept her from feeling like she "deserved" me - she never accepted the forgiveness God and I offered, until DDay, when she truly repented - turned away from her sina nd toward God and toward me.

WWJD,

Since your "handle" is: What Would Jesus Do, I think it's entirely appropriate to say that what I believe Jesus would do is He would continue to Plan A.

And pray.

I believe your W is "cake-walking", as has been stated by Bryan. However, Bryan is a "glass half empty" kind of guy, so you have to "temper" what he says with this knowledge.

Recovery is HARD. Go over to Recovery board if you're not convinced. Your W is suffering, and hurting. Yes, it's true it's not as bad as what she did to YOU, but A's are a weird kind of dynamic, and people get very, very "involved" very quickly. This leads to lots of hurts all around. I suspect her continued contact w/om is due to that "addiction" Dr. Harley refers to.

I assume you know what I'm referring to by addiction. If not, please click on the links at the top of this page, and read ALL the concepts - then read them again! Lots of good stuff here.

I believe you are doing what Jesus would do and what He would want YOU to do. Stay the course, my brother.

If you need help, jump on over to Divorced/Divorcing board (hope that doesn't scare ya!!). Look for Cajunky's posts. We fast and pray for each other's marriages to be restored over there every Wednesday.

God Bless,

I agree WW is cakewalking to some degree, but she says she realizes she cannot continue to do what she is doing - because it is tearing her apart. She has been on ADs for about two months now.

She is a Christian, though I believe only received the true meaning of God's love, forgiveness and acceptance through Christ in the last year. She continues to struggle with how God could love her - she has a lot of guilt and shame. She suffered in childhood. Her dad was an Alcoholic and unfaithful to her mother. Though her parents have remained married, in the past, she has not respected her mom for doing so. She has strong "adult children of alcoholic" tendencies, if you are familiar with them.

She also struggles with a lot of anger towards me, for my unfaithfulness, for my hard ball tactics in the earlier interim divorce proceedings. She has said she felt like I was intent on ruining her life (we were going to battle over custody, I was insisting on a pysch exam and drug testing, etc.), so she said she felt like she had no choice. My therapist thinks that some of her behavior in the six months is rebellion against that. Nobody likes to feel trapped. And I want her to love me not because she has to, but because she chooses to. Which brings up Plan B -

I am familiar with Plan B. I know it does not require me or her filing for divorce, but it is a pretty drastic departure from what I have been doing for the last six months. It would require one of us moving out. It seems that would be me, since it was my idea and so not to anger her. Plan B would get her to make a decision I am pretty confident. But it is so reminiscent of the divorce proceedings, my command and control behaviors of the past, that I think it would push her into the arms of OM.

Since she has said she knows her A cannot continue and also be M to me, she said she will make a choice. She reads the Bible, and knows God view on marriage and divorce, but she struggles so much with her feelings for OM and lack of passion for me. She says and I agree - God will still love her even if she chooses to divorce me for OM.

It is a good question, what does OM do for her that I do not?. I think it is escape - escape from the harsh realities of her life (3 kids, unemployed, living in apt). She has always had high expectations and unrealistic in many ways. She and I have both been pretty immature towards each other - self-centered, demanding and a lot of "taking".

What I do believe is that a R or M with OM will not last long - because OM will not be that escape when he is all she has got - 24/7. But it might be wise to ask her the question. She says she does not feel guilty when she is with him, but she does with me. She says I treat her so well and her lack of feelings (again feelings) for me makes her feel bad about herself. If she could only understand that real LOVE is a decision and choice, not a emotion or feeling. I tell her not to feel guilty, that I accept where she is, but in the last six months I have been impatient at times.

And pray I will, and I would ask for your prayers as well. The only reason we have made it this far is because of God's grace and mercy. I just pray that He opens her eyes to the truth and that she puts her faith in Him and not herself and the OM. God works miracles and one is needed here!

Many, many thanks for the encouragement, feedback and support. Any other comments are very appreciated!

W.W.J.D.
What Would Jesus Do?

==================
BH 32, WW 31, M 7-95
Kids: 6,5 and 2.5
Dday #1: 4-1-02
Plan Aing: 4-10-02
WW's Dv filing: 5-1-02
Plan Bing: 5-15-02
Dv filing dropped: 6-15-02
NC letter sent and Move away from OM
Plan Aing: 6-15-02
Dday #2-5 (phone contact with OM) 8-02 thru 3-03
Still Plan Aing...
Dday #6: WW resumed PA with OM - 4-13-03

I find myself wondering how strong her faith in God is based on her behavior. Does she have any concept of what she is doing to the family? Is she willing to do any work on the M? I found the LBQ and the ENQ to be very helpful.

I would suggest that you focus more on the children, it is just a thought. They are going through a lot and they should not suffer any more than they have to. They need to be shown love from you (and W, if possible) regardless what is going on between you and your W.

My thoughts, hopefully helpful.

I Love My Pookey !

Update: 2 YEARS LATER. I forgot my old post and just located it. Updated profile name (forgot password)

Well - EA/PA continued for last 2 years...never, ever stopped. I obviously kept enabling her just like Bryanp said - no consequences, so why choose?

But this time, I just could not take it anymore. 2 years ago I thought I would outlast the OM. Surely, he would lose interest. But it has not happened. My trust in her is completely gone. Worst part is now the impact on the kids is greater. They are 8, 7 and 4.5 now.

Anyway, WW says she began NC 2 weeks ago. A is now exposed to family and friends - so a bit of a wake up call. BUT we have hardly talked in the last 4 days, so I am not sure where her thinking is. Fog? Agreed to see MC and have had 2 individual sessions each.

It is so hard to believe that basically We/I am at the same place we were almost 3 years ago. This really sucks is all I have to say. Would Jesus say that?

Isn't it okay to finally say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH?

wwjd, if you have waited this long, what is wrong with a few more weeks now that you have finally separated them? She is clearly going through withdrawal and as she withdraws from him, she will pull towards you. As long as you don't push her away. Why would you want to give up now that you have come this far?

Your experience is a great demonstration of why exposure is so important. I can certainly understand why you are so worn out after enduring years of this hell.

WWJD,

Thanks for the post. I don't want to be where you are two years from now.

My current path is to divorce.

OM has been part of our lives the entire marriage - all the while WW saying that our marriage problems have nothing to do with him - all my fault etc.

I'm sorry for your kids.

Wishing you a bright future.
You're still young.

-AD

I would not want anyone to be where I am 2yrs from now either - especially ME! LOL

Yes, I will be patient for the coming weeks, even months (my apt lease is 3 months). I have endured to much to become impatient now...now I am just lonely and missing my kids....even missing WW (if that even makes sense).

But I am hopeful that there will be significant progress in the next 3 months. To be honest though - I am really not sure what that would look like. Even if it hit me in the head.

wwjd, I just read your profile for the first time. It looks like your W has been in an affair of some sort since 2001? Are affairs a way of life for her? Does she even believe in monogamy?

MelodyLane,

It has been the same OM/A since 2001. So living the double/secret life of a WS has been a way of life for her for nearly 4 years now....

....I really thought I would outlast him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

A friend of mine reminds me though....OM is not your problem, he is just furniture. I like that!

Does she believe in monogamy?

Melody,

She does believe in monogamy. She regrets what she has done and wants to stop. She is truly ashamed of herself and wants to want to stay in our marriage, love me, be loved by me and be faithful. She recognizes "with her head" how messed up she has been.

But she has been a true addict. Unable to stop running to the OM for "the medication" that he provides her. And I feel powerless to help her. Only she can save herself.

Gotcha! Thanks for clarifying, wwjd.

Remind me please what status are you in?
I know you are separated but have you gone to plan B? You have apparently finally disclosed the A to other people that is good.

However, the problem seems to be two fold. One you don't trust her NC which is reasonable given how long you have enabled this affair. Two, you are running out of love for her, which means there will be NO rebuilding if in fact she does what she says.

You need to move to plan B and she needs to provide you PROOF that she is in NC. Further, you need to verify it as well.

This is a very tough situation you are in now, because of the length of time it has gone on, and the length to time you enabled it. I truely hope that she sees some light through her fog this time, but it is time for you to protect what is left of your love for her.

God Bless,

JL

I have moved out but we are in Plan A. Steve from MB is counseling with us. Steve is good and his directions to us both are clear.

Today's update: OM came to town yesterday (lives 500 miles away). Called WW saying he was coming to our house. Said if she did not see him he would find her. Real stalker. WW called me in a panic. OM is totally pyschopath - truly! I tried to provide her direction - but she reacted emotionally to me, so I insisted that her dad get involved (he lives in same town). He came over and took WW to police station to file incident report. Then OM called WW cell phone and Father-in-law told him to leave us alone. OM called back threatening Father-in-law. Last night, WW and kids stayed with me in my 1 bedroom apt.

Today, WW and Father went to court house to file a restraining order. Father-in-law is a good man, lawyer and does not take any crap. I am glad he is finally making his daughter take some action. She is willing - but has always been too emotionally involved with OM to do it herself. WW also changed her cell # yesterday - finally! - after my requests over the last year and a half.

Anyway, things seem to be coming to a head. If we can get this pyscho OM to finally leave us alone, maybe we can actually save our marriage.

Please pray for us and esp. my 3 beautiful kids!

Okay things got better - I begin to understand how we got here and how we might get through it....then things get worse - she contacts OM after NC for 3 weeks and now where do we go/what do I do?

WW and I had been MC and discussing ENs and LBs. Pretty eye opening discussion in many ways. Epiphany was that we have always had tensions in our relationship with money and sex. Turns out Financial Support is her #2 EN and dead last for me. Sexual Fulfillment is #2 for me and in her bottom 3. On the LB front, much of our most painful actions/reactions pertained to money or sex. Essentially, we are wired differently and because the other person does not naturally meet our EN in these categories - we have resorted to "taking" in order to get our ENs met. So we discussed this at length with Steve Harley. Our discussion was good (not easy); we talked about some difficult, painful things - but at least we were dealing with it. At the end, he gave us an assignment to develop a plan to meet each others ENs.

Then I try to call WW in the a.m. and have trouble getting through. I try a few times. I try her cell - no answer. Since I was calling I decided to check her old cell number, I checked the voicemail - to see if OM was harassing her (did I mention she swore out 4 arrest warrants against him about 2 weeks ago?). And there was a message from OM. OM said he did not know why she was calling him. OM said he wished she would not because he wants to move on. OM said he hopes it gave her closure. Ugh!

I immediately confronted WW about it. She was defensive and wanted to know how I found out she called him. I told her and she got angry. Though she gave me her passcode and never told me not to check her messages and at one time even invited me to.

So now she is pissed and angry at me. Saying I am sneaking around and snooping on her. That I treat her like s#*t. That I make her feel bad. She says I only want to woo her to get what I want - (yeah!, her to love me!).

I am hurt, angry and sad. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Sometimes I feel like we can save this marriage and see a light at the end of the tunnel - only the day before she was asking me why I was not living with her and the kids.

Then this happens and I think - this is insane. Why do I do this to myself - over and over and over? Why do I love her and try to be loved by her - only to be hurt again and again? <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

We are right back to where we started.

Well, here we go again. Seemed like we were moving past OM. Appeared WW was fulfilling NC. We were getting along okay - no major LB, a little EN fulfillment. WW was asking me to come around her apt to see her and the kids. We spent several evenings together as a family - though I left to sleep at my apt.

Today was my daughter's birthday. We went out to dinner with our family and WW's parents/siblings. Felt good - normal. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> We head back to her apt. She changes into a nightgown and I am giving her a massage. The kids are in the other room watching t.v. Felt good. Then her phone starts vibrating - you guessed it - OM text messaging her. I was pissed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

She said it was nothing. I asked her if it was NC. She said no. I stormed off - upsetting my daughter unfortunately (on her birthday - great!). I told her I would not have the OM in my life anymore - she could have him. She said he was not in her life. Yeah, right! I told her through the glass window of the door that she had 3 months to get her head straight and then that was it. I can do nothing more. I have done everything I should (maybe more) and could (more than I ever thought). 3 months and that is it.

I thought moving out would be enough of a wake up call. I thought my own apt would be enough of a safety zone for me. Heck, we are working on a recovery - supposedly - and MC with Steve Harley.

Do I stop the MC and start with Plan B. I have 3 kids. How do you have NC with WW when you have 3 kids?

If I begin Plan B, what do I tell her I need to resume contact and MC? Any advice? I really would appreciate some veteran MBs to weigh in.

I am just sick to my stomach. I just want this insanity to end. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />