Slowly... slowly... slowly we move in a direction.

I've positioned any contact to move us in some direction, any direction. So far, I seem to get stronger and stronger signals that W is starting to see things in a different way.

But of course, there are problems in this idea for me.

Her latest letter includes: "One thing that did strike me is that I'm not sure what you want. If you do want to re-unite, then why? Because it's the 'right' thing to do? Because you feel you made a commitment and have an obligation to do so? Because you love me? Maybe all of these reasons..."

Especially from any FWS, can you help me understand where she's coming from? Trying to feel me out? Trying to reach out?

My gut inclination is to reply with:

"First off, I feel that if we're not on the same page in our beliefs about a lot of things, there's probably little hope in re-uniting. That's why I'm willing to ask many questions that just seemed obvious to me - or I assumed the answers long ago. And maybe it's why I don't have a problem with talking as I have been - because I'm *not* interested in false starts or bad reasons. It's hard for me to know how to feel. You say for example you have 'hope' but your actions don't seem to match, at least from my position.

I guess one of the motivations for me would be based on some kind of hope, faith and yes, I still care for you too. But feelings can change over time, and I think it'd be an extremely hard road to where we'd want to be. What are your thoughts on that?"

It's honest anyhow...

I don't know what to think. I don't know if it's worth it anymore. I hate to judge her and condemn her if she really is ready to make changes. But... I've taken to my recent "time alone" frankly, too. Funny because last I spoke with IC, she was like, "well, you should enjoy yourself now, because a lot of the activities you're enjoying now aren't exactly easy to do if you've got a wife and small child, for example, sitting at home." Hmm... Still much ground to cover, regardless of direction, I'm afraid.

<small>[ May 17, 2003, 07:54 PM: Message edited by: J.R. ]</small>

Hi JR! Good to hear that atleast you are doing well, even if the relationship still seems to be a mystery!

I'm unable to truly decipher her latest comment. I'm not sure if it's because I've been of sound mind long enough that talk like that sounds like foolish jibberish now, or if it's because it's just that. How can she not know what it is you want? You've spelled it out clearly in many many letters. Not to mention that if your intentions had changed, why on earth would you still be around putting up with her indecision and cowardess? I don't see much personal growth in those words. Of course I could be taking them completely out of context...but alone, they speak clearly of someone who is still waffling and insecure.

The words you should be hearing by now should be "What do you need me to do to get this relationship back?"

Honestly JR, I think you're still warming up the pot for this frog. You Plan A'd her out the door, then assured her you'd sit and wait for her to work out her issues, and now you've moved slowly back in to her life and are trying to slowly massage answers out of her. If the answers aren't solidly there at this point, I say it's time to start moving forth with other measures. Pull the rug out for a change. It will either shake her world enough for her to fall off the fence in one direction or another, or you'll finally be free to find someone with more guts and interest in a true marriage.

I just finished reading Harleys book Buyers and Renters. I thought it was really interesting! From their descriptions, your wife started out as a Freeloader and for the most part stayed there. She doesn't seem interested in being a Buyer, or atleast not exhuberant about it.

For me it came like a huge slap to the face and within 36 hours H and I were talking reconciliation, and in the next 72 hours we were making up, moving back and shutting out all other options. We were going to be married, we were going to be committed to each other, and we were going to be happy. We left no other options. And we are!! But it took one big slap and a whole lot of courage to get us moving in that direction. I don't think you're wife has been slapped in quite a while. She's uncomfortable and unhappy and has been for quite some time...but she doesn't seem to understand she doesn't have to be, and that it's HER choice...and HER actions...that will determine that.

Anyhow...you didn't ask for a novel so I'd better zip it up. I'm sorry I couldn't decipher better for you.

The comments made by your wife are obtuse. Vague. Colorless. Non-committal.

Here's my take.

What emotional "color" is she when she makes these remarks? Is she red? Is she blue? Is she hot pink? Is she pitch black?

She is colorless, in my view. She takes NO stand. She attempts to test YOUR intention (your "color") without revealing her "color".

If you're "red" she'll be red.

If you're "green", she'll be green.

She doesn't have a clue about herself. She borrows color.

Where is her emotional passion? Where are her passionate values?

If she ever comes to you with a very definite point of view, a precise understanding of who she is, and what she wants, and what she values .... showing her colors ..... then you know what you're getting.

She may mimic a committment, (*I will if you will*) but, she shows no evidence of strong independant feelings of reconciliation, as far as I can tell.

Where is her growth, maturity, personal fortitude?

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

JR,

she asked you..
One thing that did strike me is that I'm not sure what you want.

Why not tell her what you want....what YOU want...

Here's how I would answer what I want...

I want to be in relationship in which I am valued while at the same time...can see and always find value in my partner...

I want to be in a relationship that values honesty and always find myself in a place that can not tolerate dishonesty.

I want to always keep in my mind that love is not just a word or a feeling..but is action...and that I believe it is our actions that define our real selves....always

I want to be content in life...knowing that the right thing is not always the easier thing...and that sometimes the needs of others does outway the needs of the one or the few...and to be able to embrace that mantra with peace.

I want to be with someone who believes that vows...if/when/are present hold great meaning ...and that it is not acceptable to hold any other belief.

I want to live in my life knowing that I always hold the key to making changes that better myself...and those with whom I love...

I just don't want to be happy...I am happy...and I will continue to be happy....

No judging no condemning..perhaps JR...just for a minute let go of the thinking and analyzing what/how she wrote...and answer the question for yourself...

WHAT DO YOU WANT???
that is a gooood question...and perhaps the place to start....

ARK

Hi,

Don't get me wrong, folks! I've been *insisting* on answers to some very fundamental questions, letting her know that this *will* be settled by joint *choice*, based on answers, based on attitude, etc.

This guy isn't taking any *@#!, trust me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

It's just interesting that as she sees things changing, things are *maybe* becoming clearer. But of course, this can all change on a dime, there's no "official" statement of her position yet, etc. So I am very openly skeptical, and she knows this now.

"she shows no evidence of strong independant feelings of reconciliation, as far as I can tell"

Fair enough - this is something she will need to *prove* - but I guess it's fair to let her know that, where the bar is really set. And hey, I have no problem with speaking frankly to her on this kind of thing. I wish I'd taken such a stance much sooner - for myself.

Following Pep and Ark, what else could I say?

Just wanted you to know one more out here cares about you.

SS

( Later edit, after I thought a little more.)
It's kind of plain that you still have feelings for her. I worry about you getting sucked back into plan A, at least by e-mail. Should I worry?

<small>[ May 19, 2003, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hi SS,

Hey that's a fair question. But I don't think there's anything to worry about. If you look at the exchanges over the past 2 months or so, it's taken on a tone of "show me" (from me to her).

She knows she's in a sensitive spot - saying the wrong thing isn't going to be accepted well by me, based on the questions being asked. She wants to keep her 2 choice dilemma going as long as she can, and I'm essentially saying, "it's your choice and if you aren't going to choose, help ME choose by providing info." I'm NOT about to let her feel that any outcome is "one-sided" - me dictating to her. It's going to be a CHOICE by her in a sense - it's going to be "cause and effect" based on her responses to my questions. I'm satisfied to play that out. I know she will not be happy to select Dv - she's not one of those types we see who are more than happy to "go there."