Well, she may still be married, but her husband sure isn't. He is playing house with the ow.

So far, this isn't really dating, it is a friendship. The friendship is already there, I guess she should just not allow herself any happiness.

Sometimes other people help heal us. I am not talking sexually. Sometimes friendships do.

I am having a hard time swallowing the way you have subvertly bashed Kuljey with a whole new thread. I think it is very mean spirited. Anyone who has read her thread will recognize what you are talking about.

Personally, I see her marriage as over. There are times it is best it is over. I know *I* could not reconcile after the treatment she has received. Being her husband is GONE, and he is TWO years divorced, I see nothing wrong with what she is doing.

I am extremely pro marriage or I wouldn't be here and I sure wouldn't be married. In her situation, I PROMISE I would if not be dating, at least be socializing. For my *sanity*.

There is only so much a person can take. Give her a break

Be4 reading the other responses 2 this, the 2uestion is leading:

Why is it okay? versus Is it okay?

And not seeing, by the replies, what you were after, really (unless this is a reference 2 kuljey's thread), I offer this answer.

EVERYTHING is "okay." Just not necessarily "expedient."

Affairs are certainly "okay", because we don't throw people in the slammer for having them. But they're far from expedient, if moral and spiritual growth had anything 2 do with the objective. Heck, happiness either.

-ol' 2long.

Thank God! The Earth is still round. Chris has not been abducted by aliens. I need you to remain sane in this insane world!

"So far, this isn't really dating, it is a friendship."

How do you know it isn't dating? Where is that line? If she has "feelings" and he has "feelings" and they have expressed "feelings" to each other verbally .... how close to dating are they?

Isn't that "friendship" line the same thing that every WS says when they are first dipping their toe into a relationship outside marriage ... "We're just friends."

Are you not concerned that her kids need time and attention to heal from a very traumatic experience? .... and that mommie dating (or non-dating, but doing non-dating with "feelings") is adding more stress and confusion to their lives?

I am.

Pep

I am having a hard time swallowing the way you have subvertly bashed XXX with a whole new thread. I think it is very mean spirited. Anyone who has read her thread will recognize what you are talking about.
I took it here instead of her thread so it wouldn't be bashing her. Oh, and I like the way YOU OVERTLY brought her name to this thread.
A few people jumped and told her it was okay cause she deserved it, it feels good, etc.

Crapola!

And no, it's not just about that thread. There were a few previous along the same lines. "Oh, you've been screwed over by your wsd, you SHOULD be happy. Go ahead & date if you want."

Crapola!

In her situation, I PROMISE I would if not be dating, at least be socializing.
I'm confused. Why do you PROMISE this? No one knows what they will do in a situation unless they are there. It's good to perhaps visualize it, in case it ever happens.

For my *sanity*.
You need to be dating to keep from going insane?
Dating and socializing are NTO the same. And she IS dating.

There is only so much a person can take. Give her a break
I did. You mean tell her it's okay to date?

Crapola!

EVERYTHING is "okay." Just not necessarily "expedient."

Affairs are certainly "okay", because we don't throw people in the slammer for having them.
??

Married people don't date.
Separated is married.
Divorcing is married.

The Bible verse alluded to:
Matthew 19: 7-9

"They said to him, "Then why did Moses command that a writ of dismissal should be given in cases of divorce?" He said to them, "It was because you were so hard-hearted that Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but it was not like this from the beginning. Now I say this to you: anyone whho divorces his wife--I am not speaking of an illict marriage--and marries another is guilty of adultery." (the New Jerusalem Bible)

Hmmm. I don't see any where that "ok to date while divorcing" comes into it.

And, this is not a new discussion targeted to a specific person, BS's dating has been an ongoing discussion as long as I've been here (and Chris too).

You know it is not something I would advise someone to go out and do while divorcing their spouse(and that is the case here) but it is too late, the kids are friends and they are developing feelings.

So, I just think this thread is really PICKING on her. I doubt she needs to be picked on. I know how it would hurt me to read this stuff *about* me.

Yeah, it may be beyond friendship and I am sure it is a blossoming friendship at this point. Kuljey said it was.

It is quite different than an affair. The divorce at this point is just a legal piece of paper. They are seperated, they are divorcing. It isn't like a spouse who is telling their op that they are going to someday tell their spouse they are leaving them. They are done. Finite.

I think I am taking such issue with this from the way *I* would feel reading it after all I had been through(Bad enough my H had an A, would be a WHOLE LOT worse had he moved in with her and we were divorcing)

To me, the marriage is over when a spouse leaves and moves in with someone else. I would bet God would feel so too. It isn't the piece of paper that makes you legally married, it is the vows you give. When the offending spouse breaks them and leaves you, and there is no chance of reconciliation, well, your marriage is over.

My opinion. I know I am going against the majority, but it just bothers me to see someone who has hurt so badly be picked upon publicly

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Affairs are certainly "okay", because we don't throw people in the slammer for having them. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Must be his 'rrhoids talking. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My opinion. I know I am going against the majority, but it just bothers me to see someone who has hurt so badly be picked upon publicly.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well this thread wasn't necessarily about Kuljey until YOU made it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by naive':
<strong>Well, she may still be married, but her husband sure isn't. He is playing house with the ow.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wow, talk about rationalizations. Married is married. Just because her H isn't acting like it, doesn't give her a free pass for wrongdoing. An affair is defined by a certain behavior, not whether or not someone else is doing it. Two wrongs don't make a right.

And no, its not "bashing" XXXX to point out the truth. It is a form of love. Anyone can sit by and say nothing [or blow smoke up her [censored]], someone who really cares will take her aside and gently point out the truth.

<small>[ July 02, 2003, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

mimi:

"Thank God! The Earth is still round."

Ac2ally, it's an oblate spheroid (or is that a "spherrhoid"?). But I guess they're round 2. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

ol' 2long

<small>[ July 02, 2003, 03:48 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

Naive ... I am under the assumption that the lady in question asked us on MB for advice.

My advice intends to keep her children from further suffering, and to model adult ethical behavior to her children. To protect the lady from further hurt. To encourage the lady to work through her grief without a bandaide approach.

Interested in discussing those issues? ... or is feelings all that matters?

Pep

So, I just think this thread is really PICKING on her.
Think whatever you want, but this thread was SPECIFICALLY started so it would NOT be about her. That thread "inspired" me to start this one so it would NOT be about "her" but about seeing others while dating.

blah, blah, blah. Situational ethics as was stated previously. You get screwed by a ws and all of a sudden it's "okay" to do the same thing?

When the offending spouse breaks them and leaves you, and there is no chance of reconciliation,
Because of 15 weeks of separation, you think there is "no chance" of reconciliation? You aven;t read too much about it, have you?

And as has been proven many, MANY times, there is MUCH less chance of reconciliation when the bs gets into a new relationship prior to the old one being ended.

but it just bothers me to see someone who has hurt so badly be picked upon publicly
Then discuss the issue, not the person.

<small>[ July 02, 2003, 04:02 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Naive,
I think taking it to another thread depersonalizes it from the "other" thread you're referencing. When I dated, I had support from some, others were appalled--and I served the D papers nearly 2 years after my H's PA began.

But, dating even at that point was still wrong. And when H & I reconciled I had all the issues of being both a BS & WS, and THAT is not a pretty picture.

So, I'm not going on any "ifs".

I know what it's like way down the road from a different marital reconciliation point of view than most here get. When both spouses date, the marriage almost alwasy ends.

And, God's stand on divorce, Matthew 19:6 (right before the verse I quoted above): "They are no longer two, therefore, but one flesh. So then, what God has united, human beings must not divide."

He allows for divorce when betrayed, it is not his preference, restoration is...or not having a spouse be wayward in the first place.

(edited because suddenly I can't spell)

<small>[ July 02, 2003, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: Lor (Lor) ]</small>

2ble

<small>[ July 02, 2003, 03:56 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

It is funny, I have had a thread started about a situation of mine, and even if no one had mentioned my name, it was quite obvious it was about me. If no one had said her name, Kuljey would know this was about her.

Of course God hates divorce. I am not arguing about that. All I am saying is that she both biblically AND legally can find a new husband with God's blessing. Do you really think God doesn't know their hearts? Do you really think that he would say, "the divorce isn't legally final till 4 more months, so she is sinning for having thoughts about another man." Her husband is GONE. He left HER. He ended the marriage with the choice to leave his wife. HE is in the wrong

Yes, she should hold her kids above all others. She should be extremely careful and keep this relationship on a non sexual level till the divorce is final. Should she have not been friends with him? Maybe not. But she is. The kids are enjoy each other and if kept on that level, I just don't disagree with it.

More importantly:

"Why is it okay 2 start threads seemingly intended 2 bait other MBers in2 heated arguments?"

Kuljey's going 2 come on over here and be hurt that this thread has come around 2 being about her. She's being vilified.

Now don't get all over me, folks. I've been 2uite guilty enough of doing that kind of thing over the past 18 months, though most of the time I wasn't aware that I was doing it.

I think it is better 2 deal with real si2ations pertaining 2 this kind of 2uestion, than starting a new thread just 2 mas2rbate mentally amongst ourselves over this issue, particularly when we KNOW the answer 2 begin with. And I'm not saying arguments are wrong, either. I love good arguments. Good ones are those where nobody gets angry or feels attacked for their own viewpoints. Good ones are where all parties go away from the argument a little wiser, with a little more insight in2 the others' points of view, with nobody "losing" because their viewpoint got beaten 2 a pulp.

Again, I say that from a position of lucid awareness that I've NOT lived up 2 that lofty goal that I just described. I apologize 2 those I've battered in the process.

-ol' 2long

<small>[ July 02, 2003, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is funny, I have had a thread started about a situation of mine, and even if no one had mentioned my name, it was quite obvious it was about me. If no one had said her name, Kuljey would know this was about her.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So what are you saying? that we are forbidden to talk about the issue because it hits quite close to home?

Do you really think that he would say, "the divorce isn't legally final till 4 more months, so she is sinning for having thoughts about another man."
Yes.

Again, this thread was not even about her, but about the responses given to her by a few, and also about a few others previous threads.

All this aside, you DO think there are times that it is okay to date while still married?

Yes Chris, I think once you have been served with divorce papers, by YOUR CHEATING spouse living with someone else, it is ok to date.

So, that is an instance I think it is ok

Do I think it is ok to date because you are unhappy? NO. Do I think it is ok to date while living under the same roof and not seperated legally? No.

In her situation, I would probably do the same.