Personally, for me .....

No counseling = No homecoming

My boundaries before allowing my WH to return ...included ALL of the following:

Counseling
AA meetings
STD testing
Confession to Priest
Talk with my parents
Apology to OW's spouse

That's how much I value myself. I am worth all that and more. That's how much I value our marriage, it's worth all that effort.

But, your results may vary. If you make this homecomming effortless for her .... then you de-value what is precious to you. Why should she respect you if you de-value yourself?

False recoverys kill your marriage faster than placing healthy boundaries.


If you take her back without her commiting to counseling .... this all will be recycled in a couple of years. She won't settle in as a married woman who learned from her mistakes. She'll simply be renting space from you.

Pep

I have spoken with both my MIL and my brother(WW's best friend for 20+ years) and both think that the things she has agreed to are all she is ever likely to agree to in the begining of a recovery. She is strongheaded and any change in her decisions are hard to come by.

Truth be told I'm supprised she has given up on OM so soon. Once she decides to do something (fix him and make it work) she is usually more persistant than this. If it was just her she probably would wait longer but he screwed up and theatened her sister and I guess thats what she couldn't overlook.

If she has really decided to try to work on our M. then she will put more effort in it than she will ever admit. I believe she has made that decision because she doesn't need me up there for anything and still wants me to come. She would have had the kids up there next summer anyhow and she knows I was planning on doing that so they could see more of her.

OK .... don't live together ... just date her. Have family outings. See how she behaves for 6 months or a year.

Pep

Pep we were posting at the same time. I never expected her to accept counseling in the begining of a recovery. It will not happen until she has something to lose e someone she loves and she doesn't love me at this point in time.

She is willing to let me meet her EN's so that will come. When it does she is very willing to meet mine and thats hen she will accept counseling as something to make me happy.

I don't think she will ever be willing to give more than she is offering now at the begining of a recovery so if I want any chance at one I need to take this one.

Tis was definately an exit affair. She was DONE with the marriage and I feel only my good behavour through this has made it where she is willing to do this. She would also like more kid time so she is willing to give it one more try. But I don't think she is willing to invest much until she sees how I act and that the changes I made in myself for myself are not just an effort to get back in her house.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong> OK .... don't live together ... just date her. Have family outings. See how she behaves for 6 months or a year.

Pep </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">SH always says to stay in the same house ,a seperation is dangerous even for a plan B. So if I'm not in B why would I not want to be in the house so I can meet 2 of her top needs of domestic and family support

suit yourself

I really do want this to work out for you .... but, I am not too convinced she is done with her nonsense, and I'd hate to see you and the kids hoodwinked once again.

Does she say she regrets anything?

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It will not happen until she has something to lose e someone she loves and she doesn't love me at this point in time.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Exactly! But of course she's willing to let you meet her needs. She's a user. You do not need to be thinking about Plan A-ing her until you can see some super positive changes in her behavior. and I certainly wouldn't leave kids for any length of time to try to change the way she feels about you. Make her show you real changes first.

I'd hate to see you hurt again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Hurting, even if your wife isn't able to handle counseling, I'm still concerned that you're not defining what YOU need in order for this marriage to succeed. Have you taken a really hard look at that, separate from what your wife is willing to do? They are different things, after all. What's the plan, here? What's the time frame, and what's absolutely required to kick things off?

I just got home after 18 hrs on and I got to go back in 6hrs so I hope I can make since here.

The time frames I planned were alone up there with her for 2 wks. Then bring the kids.

I won't work for 3 months.(WW makes enough to support us indefinately and I can get a job almost over night.)

She gets 6 months to show some real progress or I'm outta there and moving on. By this I mean there must be MC by then and she needs to be actively trying to meet my needs also.

I feel I have to take the chance now for 2 reasons. !st I don't think I will ever get more offered at the begining of a recovery and 2nd I don't have much feelings left for her. Too much has gone on and I'm ready to move on. If I wait longer I will have nothing left and won't be able to try at all.

I will be getting a session with Cerri next week. I'll run all this by her and see what she has to say. I'll let you know how that goes.

I've basicaly decided I am moving and going to try this recovery. It would be hard for Cerri to talk me out of that. But as to wether we live together and how I should go about it ,attepting recovery, is still up in there air and about the only tactic that is out of play is plan B. Gonna move forward or move on ,I can't fight a holding action any longer.

Just found out WW called for me twice this evening. Sounded like she was in a good mood. I can't return the call now as she has no phone at home and she has already closed the shop. I'll give her a call tomorrow.

Hopefully I get off early enough tomorrow to set the appointment with Cerri and call the WW.

Gnight I got to go to sleep now.

Hurting, I wish you the best in whatever you decide to do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks TooOld.

Regrets... Her only regret she has mentioned is the pain she has caused all involved(me kids family) I haven't pushed for anymore on this.

My appt. with Penny(Cerri) is Monday morning.

I spoke with WW and asked some straight up questions. Here are the answers..

Do you want it to work between us? Not sure but I am definately not opposed to the idea.

Are we going to be exclusive with each other while we wok on this ie.. NO private time with any male NO phone calls with any men? Yes no male contact other than at work and you(BS) can be there.

No contact letter and OOP filed before I get there. Yes

Can I stay off work for 3 months minimum while we work on this so that we have maximum amount of time together. (I am allowed to be at her job anytime she is there) Yes

Marriage counseling. No.

Hopefully she will change this later. She did before so I think she will. I will be in IC with Penny the whole time.


I can prob talk to her 1 more time alone before IC, can anyone think of anything else Penny might want me to ask?

Cerri says to go. She likes the plan and only hangup is that WW won't do MC to begin with. We will work on that.

Cerri says and I fully agree that if there is any waffling about the OOP or a written NC letter then I just get back i my car and go home.

I plan on going this Friday. Wish me luck.

Well plans may change. I was planning on going this friday.
When I talked to Cerri it was set for Dec 5. Cerri didn't like the wait but there was some child care and financial considerations so all were ok with it.

That evening all those problems were solved, I decided to move it up to this friday. It's important to me because of WW's birthday is this coming monday plus T-day next week. I would really like to be with WW for both.

Was unable to speak to WW until tonight. Repeated attempts failed because OM was always around and in fact on other line. Tonight I got her alone and she wouldn't say yes.

Seems BIL is depending on OM for the next 2 wks for some work on the new house we will be moving into. It's being built from ground up and OM has skills that BIL needs in the next 2wks. I don't have them.

WW says she is going to talk to BIL tomorrow evening. She will tell him all and see if he can get by. I will find out Thurs at noon if I can go Friday.

I also asked if she was having second thoughts. She said only about living in the same house. Says she worries about kids if we live in same house a while and then it doesn't work. She still agrees to live together though.

Hurting, so what's happening? Are you gone or are you waiting?

I'm waiting. Couldn't find out why,OM took off work again so she couldn't talk.
Talked to Cerri, and wait is OK but new B letter ready if there is any waffling on the original agreed date (Dec5) also if there is any resistance to the NC letter or OOP when I arrive I will just hand her the letter and come right back home.

<small>[ November 21, 2003, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: hurting12 ]</small>

Last week WW's grandmother died. She fell on Sat and died on Tues. We buried her Saturday.

WW wanted me up there so I went. Got to spend all day with her Sun then OM fund out and came. Got to see her several times during the rest of the week but no conversations.

OM was very controling of her, making her leave early telling her when she could and couldn't smoke, and such. They fought everyday while we were waiting for grandma to die and while waiting to bury her.

Did thanksgiving at MIL he made them leave early. I was told by SIL at funeral that OM would be leaving Monday by mutual agreement. I bet her he wouldn't.

I guess I won. He left this morning <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . WW called me today to tell me he is gone. She is missing him already but won't be able to call ater thursday without me knowing.

We are still on for me to be there Thursday night and I don't even have to remove him <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

Now the hard work begins. I hope I'm up for it.

I'm glad he's gone - and I hope it's a permanent absence. I wish you luck with your wife.

Thanks 2old. Wasn't perm. He showed up Friday morning. It took the cops to get him to leave.
There is still contact. OM calls her at work. If she answers she will talk to him. If someone else answers she won't take the phone.

She wants to talk with him but knows she shouldn't. When she hears his voice she just won't hang up.

I am there most of the time to be sure she doesn't have to answer the phone ,but not all of it. Changing number wouldn't help(411) She will not quit the job and if we don't work out she will need it anyways.

It is rough, she is only willing to talk to me and a very little RC. I'm not allowed to do anything else for her. I know it's been less than a week and she is hurting bad, it's just rough.

Ok, No contact since Monday night. WW still letting me answer the phone. That started Tues and he called. He told me he had asked on Monday if she wanted to talk and WW had said yes. I got ticked and tried to hand phone to WW she refused it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

On Wed SIL called to talk to WW I hadn't said her name and was a little distant so when I tried to hand phone to WW she refused again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> had to tell her it was her sister. I also started getting the mail everyday. I know she noticed but has said nothing.

We talked last night, she still can't tell him herself not to call and if she answers she will prob talk to him. At least she was honest and I can answer for the next couple of months at least, hopefully he has lost interest by then.( He is now living with 1 of his ex-wives, I think 3rd).

She still hurting real bad at times but beginning to talk with me more. Didn't flinch last night when I touched her. Had a real good day yesterday and so far this morning.

Lots of rough times ahead I'm sure but maybe we can start forward slowly now.

** ask her if you can "just" rub her feet....

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />