there are MANY resaons MANY that some one would be put in the possion of being with or even inviteing both the WS and OP as a couple ..
List ONE reason anyone would HAVE to invite an op ANYWHERE.

<small>[ August 04, 2003, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by A.M.Martin:
<strong>And many of us have done things worse -- wrath and pride and envy, after all, are also sins. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The only sins I consider worse than adultery is murder, rape, and child molesting. In the Old Testament the penalty was the same for all. People who have tendencies to be liked by everyone I think are a tad too insecure. I think people who want to be friends with everyone LACK PRIDE. What you are saying is "this is the best I can do". This does not eliminate being polite though.
I've said it on this forum before - if you think there is good in everyone, you have not met everyone.

My in-laws pretty much ostracized me at one point. There was one SIL that kept in contact for a short while, but that was cut off quite quickly after the OW attended Thanksgiving while H and I were still married with no divorce proceedings in the works. Very hurtful indeed. I needed them. I moved here, Pac NW, to be with his family with them knowing they were my only family. What a disappointment. Then throw in the fact I was quite severly ill, but that didn't matter, they were torn I guess.

What was the most interesting to me was one of the 3 SIL's told me how to file an AHO on OW, and she was the one who invited OW to Thanksgiving. Too odd.

Put in their place with the same circumstance, I'd hope I would do differently and take a stand. But you never know until you're placed in someone else's shoes.

It's like people that have never experienced Adultery in their marriage, they quickly tell you without pause "Kick him/her to the curb, I'd never put up with that crap, Divorce the bum". Yeah yeah yeah .... so easy to say when it's not you.

Jo

<small>[ August 04, 2003, 01:29 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

I have struggled with this since our seperation. My stbxh's family have not handled this awful situation very well. I have been part of the family for 27 years and I care and love everyone of them.

Stbxh has 6 brothers and sisters and I only hear from 1 sister and 1 sister-in-law. It's been 5 months and I have not received a card, e-mail or phone call from the others.

I try to understand the why's and how uncomfortable this is but they act like we don't even exist. It hurts more than they ever will know. I never was nothing but nice to his family and I am out that fast. It HURTS!

I guess you always think your family will support you and mine has but his family has no choice but to support him. I get it but I think they think its him or me. The only ones that have been great are my(his side)neices who send me cards and tell me how much they love me and how sad they are.

They know how to handle this better than their parents do. Kids are so open minded! His family just doesn't know what to do so they do nothing. Its so sads! Just another way that an A effects so many people.

I stopped reaching out to them and when their ready I hope it's not to late. Because it's not just me they have 2 nephews and my oldest (who lives at school)said not one of them has contacted him. He is very bitter about this and wants nothing to do with them. I know in time this will pass I hope but when they say in crisis you see people for what thay really are, we see clearly.

I'm trying not to take it personally but it is so hard. I loved them especially his sisters, we were very close. Called me a sister and told me how much they cared for me and know I hear nothing. I don't get it, is it that hard! I say nothing is harder than what I am going through and they don't even care to see how I'm doing. Weird!!

LJ

<small>[ August 04, 2003, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

LJ, I haven't been married nearly as long, but I have some of the same feelings. Giving the most charitable feelings, let's just say they feel awkward. In some cases, ashamed. So I'll keep sending them emails about how the kids are doing. I'll ignore non-responses. I do NOT mention H in my notes. My goal is to keep up a relationship with them, because I like them and care for them, regardless of what happens.

I certainly do not want to give them the impression that they are "choosing" me over him. I'll never win that one. I'm interested in battles I can win.

When I spoke with my mother last week, she told me to find out what kind of character OM had in case W and I divorced. I told her that I didn't really care what kind of character he had because my goals had nothing to do with OM.
The are:
1. Find out what it takes to make me happy.
2. Take care of myself.
3. Be happy.
4. Be a good father to my daughter.
5. Be a good husband to my wife.

If 1 through 4 allow 5 to happen then so be it. I always tried to put 5 on top, but I failed. Until W gave me this website and I begain to read His Needs/ Her Needs, I really didn't have a clue.

When W and I were talking about OM the other day she said that OM was nice to our daughter and that our daughter didn't know of him any other way. I told W that OM wasn't my friend and that he wasn't going to be my friend.

Whoever said it is right. No one else is going to take on this struggle for us. No one else is going to help us become better spouses and No one else is going to help us feel better about ourselves.

Okieman:

"I'm not sure what you wrote, but it sounds like there is no right or wrong."

Greatly simplified, there IS no right or wrong. Our worries make the distinction. It's like George Carlin's routine about how we're destroying the planet. We're not destroying the planet, we're destroying ourselves. The planet will do just fine without us. Would it be "bad" if we wipe ourselves from the face of the Earth? I think so, but only because I'm human and am fond of humans, including myself and my family. Was it "bad" that the dinosaurs were wiped out by the Chixulub impact? Not if you wanted humans. But if you were a dinosaur? Probably.

"Sorry, I am unable to deal any further with that philosophy. If you think it is labeling, then so be it because I do judge."

Didn't say you couldn't. I still do about some things, even people. It's not taking the moral high ground 2 judge, though. Taking the moral high ground would be being a living example, NOT being "holier than thou" like many people think.

Regarding affairs, which is what most of us are regarding here:

I've judged my W's A as "bad" and her unwillingness 2 end her friendship with RM as "wrong" for the better part of a year and a half. Not much progress during that time either. Spacecase helped me realize that I was going nowhere SLOWLY with that approach. And I don't think this is inconsistent with MB methods:

*Affairs don't happen in vacuums. We're all told that the WS either seeks 2 have ENs filled by someone outside the M because the BS isn't doing an adequate job (that was me), or they fall victim 2 a predator who's seeking someone like them (and quite possibly because they had ENs unmet in their own M - like RM). So, while the A is solely the choice of the WS 2 have, not any responsibility of the BS, the condition of the M before the A IS partly the BS's responsibility.

*We can learn from adversity, or we can blow off the oppor2nity 2 learn and risk repeating the same s2pid mistakes that got us in2 the present si2ation. I.e., we can villify the WS and either end our M's, risking doing it all again with someone else, we can brow-beat the WS in2 submission and thus back 2 the M, or we can view our experiences, "good" and "bad" as oppor2nities for personal spiri2al growth. Let the WS learn from their experiences while we learn from ours.

*Likewise, we can forgive and move forward as a loving couple again, or we can harbor resentment indefinitely and poison our ability 2 truly love, trust, and forgive. And this is where the hard part, the "higher moral ground" comes in2 play: we can't very well view the experiences we've lived as "oppor2nities for growth" if we hang on2 the resentment and forever consider the A as a "wrong" done deliberately and maliciously by the WS 2 the BS. Carried 2 the extreme, it should even be possible 2 be grateful 2 the WS for waking us up 2 our shortcomings, even in this fashion. It's hard, but the alternative isn't very attractive either.

In my case, though I can't ac2ally say I'm grateful for RM's A with my W, I am grateful for being woken up. I wish there had been any other way 2 do it, but the simple fact is that there wasn't, or it would have happened. Now? I'm wide flat awake and love my W more than I ever have before. I don't quite yet know if the "friendship" is over yet, and believe that it needs 2 be for us 2 fully recover, but just as soon as I dropped the "need" (really the insistence) for NC, his importance in my W's life really fell off precipitously. And she's being more loving and attentive 2 me at the same time.

RM and his STBXW have opted 2 DV, rather than grow from their own experiences (Mrs Meat, in fact, had a revenge A). Now they're in a bitter custody battle over their 2 sons. It certainly would have been easier for me if they had chosen 2 reconcile, but they haven't.

Like many people on here, I suspect that it really is unreasonable for RM 2 get out of our lives completely. My W and he work in a very small specialized field, and someday they're going 2 be away at a conference at the same time. I would prefer that my W choose, on her own, for her own reasons, NOT 2 be alone with him or talk privately with him because she does NOT WANT 2, not because I told her she couldn't. I think that's possible, because I've seen it here.f

Then, we will have learned something.

regards,
-ol' 2long.

OK I was asked to list one possiable resaon why or where a family/freind would have to invite ws and op as a couple even if they are against the A and do not support it but can't avoid it ..

EXample :
ME ,H,and kids spend thanksgiving with MIL out of state , this has become a family tradition .ONE which I will not have broken , time with grandparents are very important ect.

OK when FWS was out in FOG land I was going to PLAN B , He said, he loved OW wanted to M BLAH BLAH .... SO I said, no problem .

HOLIDAYS need to be split ,, I gave him Thanksgiving , children asked him are we going to GRANDMAS , he said , NO . NOt telling them why .

MY MIL called and told me under NO circumstances would she let that SLUT in her home , even thought FWS didn't even ask ..

I said, to her you need to face reality if this is what makes him happy and you want to see your grandkids and not disappoint them then SUCK it up and have them and ignore her , but if he won't come without her then deal with her .

SHE argued with me . Well any who FWS never went there any way cause he never intended to take OW any where .

BUT my piont is MIL could have been put in the possion . AND WOULD have had them . NOT happy but would have for her GC .

SO there is the one thing , you see the OW would be the uncomfortable one no one else . She was the outsider so I was ok with anyone having her over .. I was more sick over her being with my children before a D would take place ..

BUT that never happened either , all the reasons why there relationship was not real it was an A not a relationship ..

BUT again I belive for resaons such as children and some very close freindships , one must except that the WS has done the damage and they to as friends and family must move on ..

REsilents (spelled it wrong sorry ) was also right on no one knows how to react or how one will react until it happens ..

MY MIL still has not forgiven her son , she still crys over what damage he did and is angree , she has no idea how I am with him but supports me as she can and I am helping her try to forgive him ..

THIS is her son I never wanted her to have this pain , I know she loves him just as I continued to do but she also took a stand it was me who wanted her to continue relationship with him and if that had to be with OW 2 then so be it .

I don't understand what you wrote.
Do you mean that his Mother would invite the ow at Christmas?

you wrote; MY MIL called and told me under NO circumstances would she let that SLUT in her home
which means she WOULDN NOT invite her.

But then you wrote; BUT my piont is MIL could have been put in the possion . AND WOULD have had them . NOT happy but would have for her GC .
You just said, "under NO circumstances would she let that SLUT in her home."

Why do you think she would HAVE to invite the ow?

She can invite her son & kids without inviting the ow.

Also, it's bad enough that the children are around the ow (that should be stopped if that is happening). But now the grandparents would be teaching the kids that it is okay to be with someone else when they are married.

<small>[ August 04, 2003, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

That is one thing I agree with. The OP spending anytime at all with my daughter absolutesly gets my ire. Who is he to spend any time making friends with my D.

It is almost impossible to protect the innocence of my D with OM anywhere in the picture.

It's not that hard to imagine "excuses" for friends treating OW and H like a couple. For one thing, my H has a public role and he is insisting they be treated as a couple.

No one is going to organize a boycott for me. And it would be silly in a small community to approach all your friends, movie theatres, restaurants, etc., and insist they not be treated as a couple. H has been very flagrant and insensitive to everyone about this. He's an unconscionable kind of guy. There's nothing I can do about that.

Everyone, friends included, who attends such public, corporate, or large-scale events is unwittingly supporting the "new" couple. And H & OW know that. By appearing publicly together, kissing, etc., they are reinforcing that image. Time is on their side -- if they can keep it together. They know that.

And let's face it, most people are suck-ups and lack courage. To expect human nature to suddenly reverse itself on my behalf is unrealistic.

What I CAN do is not shrink from public appearances myself. If OW and H are there, let everyone gag on the contradiction. I don't have the choice of lacking courage anymore. I will have to be brazen, too. I don't think OW has the stamina or the stability for H or me.

And I can make it easier to champion me -- by being kinder, more open, etc., so it's more fun to be with me than H & OW, who have their grim side.

<small>[ August 05, 2003, 12:24 AM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

A.M.M.

I think you have a winning attitude. It's a real inspiration!

-AD

A.M.Martin said ... "I'm interested in battles I can win." ...... !

Me too sister, me too.

Very wise words AMM. Very wise

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

A.M.M
I agree great attitude , theres only so much you can do . You have to be yourself knowing that only time will tell .

The thing I liked most about what you said, was about not being unrealistic .

Thats important, not everyone out there will think , act , have the same veiws ect. as someone else .

And yes theres always those "suck-Ups" LOL

Keep being you ,keep it real . Good against evil .
Good always wins . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Oh no. Good doesn't always win at all. If good isn't strong enough, it is destroyed so that it can be replaced by a stronger good. That's why we shouldn't waste bullets.

I am trying to say I agree with AMM opening statement . Freinds/family are put in a possion .

If WS's stay with op long term and never go back to M , well then in JMVHO there are those around who will have to except this and move forward .

I have 2 children and no I did not want them around OW till D . FWS did it 2x's . That was enough for me .. I said, never again unless you D me ..

He didn't do it .

But while in the FOG I knew there MAY come a day if we did not reconcile that I would HAVE to except OW if he D me ..

I was not going to let my children be raised in a bitter inverment.
They would have seen me become "freinds " with her .

I would have talked if I had to , and smiled when I needed to . For my chilren I would have made the best out of what was a horriable thing ..

IF they would have been together she would have been with my kids nothing you can do about it .

HE has the right to a life , I don't agree with it , I would never bring my children around another ,, but thats me ..

Ok I am done .. This is a very good thread helps to think about all these things , these A really do affect everyone so sad .

AND if you where asking NO my kids are not around op cause there is no more OP !!

N/C 2months in recovery .

sorry was posting ,,, NOW that was GOOD !!

Congratulations on recovery, 3!

And many thanks, everyone, for many kind words.

I was not going to let my children be raised in a bitter inverment.
They would have seen me become "freinds " with her .
Because I don't associate with the guy at the gas station, does that mean I am bitter towards him? No, I just don't associate with him except to pay him for gas. The end. I don't need to have small talk or anything else.