I've had a torrid time the last few days. Yesterday I saw a number on H's phone, questioned him and he reacted VERY badly. Said I was breathing down his neck. Felt he would be under suspicion always - OW told him she was, and he can't forget her words!
Last night he said he's never been more committed to our marriage.
This morning I said that those 2 things made me think. Perhaps for him to avoid suspicion and to demonstarate his commitment he could show me the phone bills. Well, he went off the deep end. He called me and said "that's it, when we get back from holiday, you pack up and leave." I've said no, I'm not going on holiday under those conditions, H should take the girls on his own.

I then sent him a text saying "It's EASY to tell me to pack up and go. It's HARDER to fight to save our marriage. Is it TOO hard? You know that I love you." He hasn't answered, but we have spoken since.

Please help me. I don't know what to do. I'm in a terrible state.

Jackie, it doesn't sound to me like you've done anything wrong. H's reaction sounds pretty dramatic to me. I would say that there is probly pretty good reason for that. Your suspicions are probably correct.

As a FWS myself, I only acted like that when we were on the road to a false recovery. Because it means that your H doesn't truly understand what it is that he's done and how it's hurt you, and he's still not really fully committed to the marriage. Many GOOD recoveries still start this way and the WS 'gets it' along the way, but for us it never did work while I was still in that selfish state of mind. When my head flew completely out of my butt (aka the fog lifted), then I was willing to do absolutely whatever it took to prove my committment to my H.

If you have already Plan A'd, it might be time to take a tougher stance for yourself. NOTHING you asked for was unreasonable. And your H has to realize there are CONSEQUENCES to betraying your trust. He doesn't have to like it...it makes absolutely no nevermind...he just has to do it. Otherwise, let him throw his tantrum and leave. Remember, begging does not work to get a WS to change their mind and it's no good for you to allow him to get away with things either.

I dont' know the full details of your situation, so maybe that isn't the best next step. Maybe Starfish will have some more educated advice.

No matter what, remember to hold on to you!! You will be ok no matter what happens, and you DO DESERVE BETTER treatment, so don't allow his fog to suck you in! Good luck!

Jackie, His reaction is normal. When people are hiding something, this is what they do. Do you have instant messenger? I have aol, msn and yahoo. If so, here's my email address....send the info to starfish4729@hotmail.com I'm here for a bit.

Jackie,

While I'm waiting to hear from you, I thought I would post. When you asked your H to agree to a recovery plan....wasn't openess and honesty a part of it. Part of recovering from an affair involves a willingness to rebuild trust. That simply cannot be achieved without the WS opening his life to scrutiny for a time. Did you discuss this with him during reconcilliation?

Jackie, as much as I hate to agree, it appears he is hiding something. People who have nothing to hide, don't hide. He has to know that it will take extraordinary measures to rebuild the trust he destroyed in his marriage. You would be crazy to trust an untrustworthy person. Its grossly unrealistic of him to expect to be treated with the same level of trust as a trustworthy person. He doesn't deserve it.

Please nip this in the bud now. He is using this as a DIVERSION, as an excuse to get angry. Don't fall for the bait! Don't get angry or upset at him, but the next time he angrily accuses you: "YOU DON'T TRUST ME!!" [intent of remark is to put you on defense and divert attention away from them] Calmly say, "of course I don't trust you after what you have done. Only a crazy person would trust after this." My spouse quit playing that game when I said that. He was speechless.

Jackie, he is trying to bait you into a fight because he is in withdrawal and is having 2nd thoughts. Do your best to diffuse this without lovebusting and hopefully it will die down before it gets too far.

Star, I don't have IM. I did discuss openness and honesty with him. He agreed to it, but his idea of openness and honesty is obviously different to mine!
I think he really still is in some sort of fog. He'll be home from work soon and I think we are in for a big showdown tonight. I won't be able to post when he's home.
Right at this minute I feel like its all one way traffic. I'm not very confident that he has the balls for this. And I just can't see a way around this.
I know that if he has nothing to hide he should be open and I told him today that if he thinks I will blindly trust him like I did for the first 10 years, he's mistaken.

Hope - thanks! I know he's hiding something, I don't know what or why. I'm in a terrible state.

Ow lives 6000 miles away, but he's been to UK twice since June. He SWEARS he hasn't seen her.

When I question him he handles it very badly.

Melody, thanks for your input. You're right. I just don't know what to DO. It all looks so bleak. What should I be saying to this man that I adore so much?

jackie,

A show down is the last thing you need right now. This is not a test of wills, it's a test of your ability to negotiate. You must do this calmly and with NO LBs! Trust takes seconds to destroy and years to build. Tell him more than anything in the world....you WANT to trust him. You have every reason to believe that you CAN rebuild trust, but in order to do that....you need his agreement to open his life up to you. If he doesn't understand what that means, or his understanding is different....please explain to him what it means for him. He'll always need to be honest, but this kind of intense scutiny will not be necessary forever....he needs to see some light at the end of this tunnel IF he is willing to make some compromises for your safety.

Put aside your anger and resentment over this issue. It won't help you get what you want. Remember that withdrawal is a very fragile time so calm discussions about these things is vital because heated arguments during this time can send a spouse running right back to the OW. Keep in mind, that even though he loves you, that he envisions a life where he will be forever mistrusted and maligned. Validate that. "I know this is how you must feel. This is how I feel. Together, we can work through this so we can rebuild trust. It will take some time, but it won't take forever. Please trust me also....to take your feelings into account. I wish this were not part of recovery from an affair, but it is....and there is simply no easy way around it."

Thanks Star! You're a honey. I'll give it my best shot. I'll let you know what happens. If it does get bad it will be because he just does not see WHY this is neccessary!!
It dawned on me today that if we can't get over this hurdle, my marriage is OVER. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
I'm going to ask him - in a non-LB way - what his idea of openness and honesty is before we talk about anything else.

Step one: Don't lose your head!! You may FEEL weak, but in REALITY YOU ARE STRONG! He does NOT hold all the cards...if he did, why would he even bother getting angry. He would simply pull a power position and show you his cards. He's ANGRY because he's CAUGHT...this makes him feel like a child in troubles, he's fighting those feelings of guilt, he's ANGRY with himself, he's fighting HIMSELF!! LET HIM!

Step two: DO NOT engage in war. STAND STRONG and find a way to calm yourself as much as you can. When he starts to rage just calmly go back over the list of things it will take to get your marriage back on the right track. Complete openness and honesty is vital...blind trust is not.

Step three: Remind him throughout the CONVERSATION (not shouting match) that you love him and only want to have a happy, fulfilling marriage for the two of you.

YOU CAN DO THIS! This is NOT about you as much as it feels like it is...this is his war...don't enlist.

okay chere.....so when he says he doesn't understand "why" he has to do this, what are you going to say?

Star, I think I'm going to say because we agreed that we didn't want to live a lie and a marriage without honesty is a sham. Neither of us want that. I know there should be more, but I need to think about it for a while.

Hope, thank you for your input. I will try to do what you say.

THIS IS SO HARD

I AM SO SCARED <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Jackie I know this is hard, and it is certainly scary. Some thoughts of mine about how to explain "why":

Honesty and openess are an essential part of marriage because they provide protection for BOTH partners. When an affair occurs, both partners lose their protection....the BS is vulnerable and the WS is vulnerable. Being honest and open with eachother, not only helps the marriage heal from the past, but also ensures that the marriage will be safe in the future. No one would have an affair if they knew immediately that their spouse would know....so opennes ensures that the WS can resist temptation by ridding the marriage of secrecy. It would be silly of a BS not to expect reassurance of faithfulness after an affair (or throughout a marriage) when trust has already been compromised. Honesty and openess is one of the TOOLS that are necessary for rebuilding a marriage and avoiding future infidelity. It becomes very easy to allow your spouse into your life when the things you do protect your spouse from harm. It only becomes difficult when you are afraid of what your spouse will discover because you are not protecting them. Closing your life breeds jealousy and suspicion....especially after an affair....so if you want to rid your life of a jealous suspicious spouse...the fastest way to do it.....is to open your life. Marriages thrive in an environment of honesty....it isn't honesty that destroys marriage...it's secrecy.

I would like to thank everyone who responded to my cry for help. All of you gave me something to think about and to work with and I truly appreciate the time and effort taken.

Star*fish.... you have been a life line for me - I have no words to express my gratitude. Thank you doesn't seem enough, but it's all I have.

So..... what happened? At first it looked like there would be nothing to report, H was in a bit of a "what's to talk about" mood. Slowly and carefully I managed to open him up.

There was no showdown. I did not LB.

He's agreed to show me the phone bills!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I still don't really understand how I got him there. It took ages of him telling me "You know me better than anyone", "You know I don't say things I don't mean" and "I don't do things I don't want to do" ALL of that is true. I agreed with him all the way. I think the turning point came when I asked him if he thought my suggestion was unreasonable, he said no. Then I asked him if he thought I deserved protection and to feel safe and he said yes.

One thing I have learnt here is to NOT fill in the silences.

Eventually he seemed to mull everything over and then just blurted out "you know, I have no problem showing you the bills."

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

He is a bit like a naughty child who got caught at the moment, a bit sulky, but not mean. He'll get over this.

I think I've also managed to work out that he's not hiding anything NOW. I think that the more he admits his feelings for me, the more horrified he is by what he did to me. I come along and question him and he sees me rubbing his nose in the dirt.

I hope this makes sense to you. I am married to a VERY stubborn man. I think I know how to handle him. I have to be very careful, otherwise he'll clam up and shut me out.....THEN I've had it!

Thanks for the help and for reading.
Jackie

AWESOME! Better than I expected! I hope he really does show you the bills and that there's nothing to see!

H4F: Thanks for checking in on me.

So do I. I did say that he could show me bills starting from now if he wanted to, but he said no, he'll show me for the whole month. It's the mobile bill I'm interested in. The mere fact that he said he would is a big step. I need to go carefully here.

jackie,

I'm glad this worked out. It sounds like you handled this just right....calm but dedicated to following the right course. If your husband can begin to see that these intrusions are not attempts to control him, but to protect the marriage, it won't be such a challenge to him. You done good <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Mmmm..... the atmosphere is very calm at the moment. I'm just giving H some space for now. This could be the calm before the storm or it might be that he is taking some time to get over the latest developments. He did say that it takes him a few days to get back on track after these type of events.
We go on holiday in a week. It is just what we both need - some time together and to relax.

Thanks for the support, Star! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />