Is this sometimes the natural progession? I'm not seeing any signs of the A anymore.. But my H seems to just be happy? or as happy as he is? just being a very cordial roommate. He's great with the kids, not rollercoaster crab like during the A. But- won't let me meet any of his needs, and in turn doesn't meet mine. Just two people living together. This scares the crap out of me, because I'm afraid if his needs aren't being met- then he'll just turn to another affair.

Is this common? After the first knowledge of the affair, and all the anger, resentment, talks of Dv, and going back and forth, and "drama".. when the affair of the ws ends- then it's just "quiet"..??

Anastasia

He may be fueling up for the moment. You may be meeting more of his needs than you realize. Yet he is not meeting yours.

Concentrate on non A or R stuff. Try not meeting his obvious needs (washing clothes, running his errands, making his lunch or cooking all his meals, etc.)....... see how he reacts. Not all at once but enough so he will notice. When he does, commend him for noticing, then let him know you feel the same. Don't give an explaination.

In some cases, the WS learns to curb their anger and the A is still ongoing. It doesn't last though because that show can't last forever.

One of the things I told my WS was that I learned I did't have to search for his errors, the OW would eventually make sure I learned what I needed to know. Guess what? I was right. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

Anastasia,

Yes this happens quite a bit. Check out the thread on JFO about "limbo" I made some long posts there that might help.

Has contact ended between he and the OP...

remember that plan A is about assisting you in finding sanity while the WS ends the affair...

Upon D-day did he speak of leaving or is it he that wanted not to leave the marrriage and stay and "work" on things??

What has he volunteered about reconcilliation?
Where does he see your and his relationship?..

you could consider some 180's to get his attention...
that make it look like you are not just wallowing in the home....but are seeking and enjoying life...

also you must be very very wary of a WS choice of recovery that includes never talking of or mentioning the affair again...and while I am not suggesting bombarding him with relationship speak...I am warning YOU do not accept...not talking about things means it has 'gone away" or is better..

clarify to the best of your ability...if there is no contact...

consider plan b if you have done a good-long plan a that demonstrates changes in you that show you can handle things to the best of your ability....

If he desires marriages then counselling is in need if he wants to be with you...part of the deal so to speak....you can't avoid this one...or bury it like it never happened...

some feedback here is helpful...and orchid is right...sometimes suprising them with little things/changes really gets the attention of others....

ARK

Thanks for the replies.

He admitted 2 A in other states while traveling. At that time- he just wanted to leave.. He wanted a Dv immediately, and since I am the "doer" kinda of person, in his mind- he just knew I would kick him out, file the Dv, and he'd be on his way.. I didn't.. I stood firm, said there was no way I was filing, if he wanted to, he would have to get attorney and do the work himself. I was not holding his hand to destroy this family(2 and 4 yr old boys). His mouth dropped to the floor.. This isn't how he planned it out in his head.. HE was flabergasted that I wasn't going to do all the dirty work.

Anyway, next few months- lots of resentment, anger, just verly living together... but- 2 weeks before I found out about the 2 A's, I had lost my career job of 17 years- (hostile takeover of my company) so, he knew I couldn't support me and the boys at that point. He was "stuck" for the time being.(I do believe in God- and I do think God wanted us "stuck" for awhile.)

I think in November - local A started. He covered tracks unbelievably good. My only clues.. gut feeling, missing time, work cell phone- calls in/out erassed always, time on internet when I was away logging into secret account(I didn't have the gut to get spyware- I just didn't want to see it- I already knew it's happening- I didn't want details).

January- found this website.. What a Godsend.. I was fast spiraling down.

This July--I could tell he and ow were fighting.. Just things.. that gut feeling. Now for 1 month- calls on his cell are showing who called, and he called. No internet use at all. No messenger use while he's at work. No missig time. And not working out at the gym on weekends, and when he does- at a different time(I'm sure that's where they met)....

At first it was - As soon as you get a job- I'm outta here.. Now, he says "Does it look like I'm leaving???".. But no-our communication is still bad.. I do have a letter that Cerri helped me to construct. To try and find out what I can do to help him want to come back into the marriage.

But my question just is- is this typical. Do they just decide to "settle on less". A horrible marriage, no A(I think he got tired of the lies, the pained looks, etc.. too)and just settle?? But am I correct- that this will just lead to another A somewhere down the road since no meets are really being met?

Orchid said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Concentrate on non A or R stuff. Try not meeting his obvious needs (washing clothes, running his errands, making his lunch or cooking all his meals, etc.)....... see how he reacts. Not all at once but enough so he will notice. When he does, commend him for noticing, then let him know you feel the same. Don't give an explaination.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have been doing this daily since the first day. Since I lost my job, I have been doing EVERYTHING around the house.. He's been in la-la land - doing nothing but mowing the lawn. He use to wash dishes, wash clothes, etc.. Nothing since A.. But- last weekend- 3 weeks after I'm sure n/c with op, he did one load of laundry and dishes!! And yes- I said- Hey- Thank you!.. Not a big deal- but let him know I noticed.. He says "Whatever."... He never comments on anything I do..Rarely "a good dinner".. and basically nothing else. My guess- he's embarassed- it only highlights the fact he hasn't been in the marriage and he's been doing nothing.(I will have to inject here that he has been doing things with the kids.. Taking them to swim lessons at night, took 4 year old on first plane trip to Colorado for a co-workers' wedding, just spending time with the kids, next- he wants to take them on a train ride- but--I'm not in the picture <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> )

Star- I will check out "limbo". Thanks!

Ark- he doesn't ever want to speak of the A's. He has never came forward on the local one. Just the last two weeks- we are having conversations and actually looking at each other in the eyes! What a long year it's been..

Plan B-- it could still definitely happen.. As I said in a post on JFO- it's been a year- I'm tired of circles.. I know I will go forward and back, but I resolve to take steps necessary to not go in circles.. I've mourned for 1 year.. I seriously have.. I never knew you could be sleeping in the same bed as someone, and living in the same house with someone, and feel like the lonliest person on earth. (Thank God for my children. They've been my light.) Even harder since losing my long term job and all my co-workers/friends at the exact same time. Just being honest- these two things coinciding within 2 weeks- just about beat me. I did mourn for 1 full year. But- time to move forward.. It's just so hard to make the ws see/know/learn what you have here!!! Anyone know how to shove the information into their brain through osmosis! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I really believe he thinks. "this is it". It's impossible to have a good marriage with Anastasia.. and this breaks my heart <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> He has no hope for our marriage, no dreams, so therefore, he does "nothing".

Thank you for listening!!! I have a big time interview next week- the job is 30+ miles away- I think he realizes if I get it- good chance the boys and I will move. 1 year ago- You need to get a job!!! Last night- hmmm, maybe that job you are interviewing for next week isn't really for you.. Hmmmm..... (And the pay is pretty good, nothing like I was making before, but the boys and i would survive)..

Have a good weekend. We are off to take the boys to the State Fair. I'm gong to plan A my butt off while there and will it to be a great family day.

Anastasia^^ -who's going mostly forward- a few back- but NO MORE CIRCLES!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ana,

If communication is a problem (common issue with male WS'), then howz about talking to the wall. Yea, I mean it. I did. Mine thought communicating with his family was some sort of sin. He was/is Mr. Sociable & Mr. Fixit, one of the reasons why OWs are attracted to him.

During one of my wits end moments, I was in bed trying hard to communicate 'nicely'. I had tried all ways but he felt 'clammy' and the bed was 'cold'. I had had enough. So I turned over faced the wall and began talking my heart out. With tears and all. I explained to the wall that I loved my real H, not this strange arrogant man who crawled into my bed. Wasn't sure if I needed to call 911 since I didn't know who this character was. I injected some humor between the tears because that is just how I am. But I cried my eyes swollen anyway.

Lo' and behold...... that 'character' was listening. After about 15 minutes, I managed to sob myself to rest (not sleep, just rest....I was exhausted). The tears had run out and I needed to breathe. But the wall was still there for me to talk with. I told the wall, I am glad I could speak to it because I knew the wall would not yell at me, blame me for something that was NOT my fault (I was blamed for the A and a bunch of other nonsense) but also realized the wall could not comfort me, love me or hug me. But it was better than the character in the other side of the bed because that one made me cry. Oh yea, WS heard it all.

Eventually he leaned over and apologized. Small one, definitely not enough but a start. I acknowledged it but no jumping for joy, just a few nods. I had to hold stuff back because I wanted to rip his _____ out. There was sooo much unknown. I receited the fruitages of the spirit but when I got to 'long suffering'...... I had to bite my tongue. It felt more like suffering long.

For me talking to the wall brought some relief. More than I had before.

Hope this helps.
L.

I would think about some serious and drastic 180's...

There are some huge red flags in my opinion...(which is just that..and others may feel/see differently and I hope the chime in...)

Basically he's taken the freedom to have THREE affairs....
threatens to leave when the mood hits him...based on whether he has an OW...

And when without OW...ignores you totally BUT reaps the benefits of your labors...

and will not discuss the affairs...but to give him credit...how much have you confronted him on his actions...and questioned him on his plan to recover...since he's not budging...??

AND are you seeing a marriage counsellor...because i thnink you need to and should...

I would continue to be pleasant to him...no LBing...no disrepect...

BUT I would stop doing his laundry...and begin to babble to him...

"did you wash any of my clothes?"...
you answer...
Oh those are your clothes? I was wondering whose they were."

I would not set the table for him...I would sit down with the children for dinner and when he asks where is his dinner...
I would say...
"Oh I didnt' know you were planning on eating." "when did you get here?"

12. Act as if you are moving on with your life

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get
busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends,
etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start
the conversation) be scarce or short on words

17. You need to make your partner think that you have
had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you
are going to move on with your life, with or without
your spouse

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull
back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more
important, realize what he will be missing

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show
your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him
someone he would want to be around.

21. Never lose your cool
22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic
23. Do not argue about how he feels (it only makes
their feelings stronger)
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really
saying to you
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you
want to speak out
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh &
focus on all the other parts of your life that are not
in turmoil)
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any
words you can say or write
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you
are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than
50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in
absolute negatives because he is hurting and scared
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad
you feel
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.

I would encourage you to seriously consider finding an activity outside of the home...and pursue it...
one that interests you and links you with contacts of people who will value you for you...

I would encourage you to take time to go out without a big explanation to him where you are going/doing....during the day or evening... be a little mysterious...

be reachable if needed...but not real concerned with his knowledge of exactly what you are doing...

I would seriously consider based on the outcome of this interview...moving to plan B...

You are doing all the work...and he has done nothing...

I would never live with someone so overtly silently hostile to me...my psyche, and my soul...

and i have concern when someone resigns themselves to such a status quo of basic disrepect...

If he wants to be home ..then he darn well better be active in being home...no half ways for me...

And i don't mean this in an unmarriage builders way...I mean this is there comes a time when we live the reality of our choices...

I would become very excited about the job interview...not in a way to set yourself up if it doesn't pan out...but in way that shows you KNOW your self worth...

I am concerned about what living like this does to your selfesteem

and concerned about making abnormal and disrepect from him..the norm...

Orchids suggestion is classically brilliant...(just like her)..it's sounds silly and ludacrious....yet it is no more ludacrious than the way he treats you....
AND it offers you the freedom to say all that you feel like saying and are afraid to say to him...

blessings to you
ARK

Orchid.. You brought a huge smile to my face.. I think my ws already thinks I'm looney--(I'm the "act silly" one in the family.. Boy- wait until I'm talking to the wall! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I need a video camera on! Thank you.. Brilliant as usual.

Ark-- I had tears reading what you wrote.. I know-Iknow-Iknow-I know...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> and will not discuss the affairs...but to give him credit...how much have you confronted him on his actions...and questioned him on his plan to recover...since he's not budging...?? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I haven't been rocking the boat lately. Before- I knew he was having an A.. But he did cover his tracks unbelievably good. And as I said- spyware- I didn't want to read details.. But, if he was on computer late- I got up and would say "What are you doing".. Always excuse- but definitely made him feel uncomfortable. If I did *69 and number blocked or something.. I would say "Odd, why would the number be blocked to call here?".

One of the A women from other state called here July 4th. *69 revealed her number. I lost it.. Yup- I freaked. Yup- threated death upon her if she ever called this house again- screaming, freaking.. Very unlike me.. He was absolutely stunned. For the first time ever - I actually could see in his eyes he saw the pain these A put me through. Before his fog always made them "o.k.". Ana doesn't love me anyway-- she's just saying that-- and all that crap.. But no- never talks about- never admits the recent one. The only way I found out is the ow called me. How lovely....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and questioned him on his plan to recover...since he's not budging...??
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I haven't.. Cerri helped me with letter. I have to give it. I have to get tough. I know this.. I just need to muster up the courage and I'm not sure what I'm afraid of? I have gone over it 1 million times in my head.. I have nothing now! Nothing to lose! But hearing that he will never work on it- and there is no hope.. This is what I just don't want to hear..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> BUT I would stop doing his laundry...and begin to babble to him...

"did you wash any of my clothes?"...
you answer...
Oh those are your clothes? I was wondering whose they were."

I would not set the table for him...I would sit down with the children for dinner and when he asks where is his dinner...
I would say...
"Oh I didnt' know you were planning on eating." "when did you get here?" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok- you can tear me apart here- but I have a really hard time with this when I'm not working and he's paying/supporting me in all ways.. I know- let me hear it.. but I'm serious.. I feel that's I'm at least contributing then. He has been washing dishes and doing loads of laundry the last 3 weeks since A has stopped. He did dishes this morning- and laundry this afternoon...

I do have a letter I need to give him.. Me- the mouthy one.. I am the one who hits things straight on forward, and I tell you.. this A stuff.. What a loop I've been thrown for. I just need the courage to give him the letter. Why courage?? Because it'll tip the boat.. For 3-4 weeks with no affair, I'm finally sleeping at night.. Not worrying about him on the computer.. Not worrying about "where was he those 20 extra minutes it took to get home", etc... No- it can't stay like this.. I understand that.. but even this little break after 1 year has been nice. Now isn't that sad... <sigh> Who would of thought I'd be thankful just to know where my H was all hours of a day.. Pretty pittiful...

I agree that I need to focus on me and the kids. Focus on this interview, and just start looking forward. I am going back into a pottery class, and i need to start looking at houses in the city that I am looking for work in.

I sound needy here at mb.. But I have never been. I've always been the very independent one. Part of why our marriage is failing. He never felt I needed him. I could and did everything for myself. Never depended on him for anything(even though he was dependable). So living by myself, etc.. No problem.

It's the boys. They adore there dad. When he just goes to work in the morning, they sit on the step- waving goodbye, sometimes with tears.. "I wish my daddy didn't have to work today".

And everytime I think about us not being a family, and trying to explain to this 2 and 4 year old boys why they are going to be pushed back and forth between cars like a piece of luggage, I just want to puke. I absolutely freak out about it.

Maybe I overthink it as I have no experience with divorce. No one in my family divorced. None of my close friends are divorced. I haven't been around it, seen it up close and personal, especially with kids. And the extended family that is divorced with kids- the kids are screwed up. One is in a training camp right now, the other cries all the time begging parents to get back together..

So I probably think of Dv as a bigger extreme negative thing then it is, but I will admit- the fear of Dv is paralyzing to me... And the fear of having a step-mom raise my kids for one minute absolutely p**** me off. I am the mom!!! And the thought of sharing my time with the kids. Whatin the heck is that!!! I'm a parent and I don't "get" to be with my kids every weekend, holiday and during vacations!!

I don't even have a choice in this because he decides he wants a divorce, have A, and it's too bad mom- you are now just a part time mom.. O.k.- I'm done venting-- but this is where my fear comes from. Hitting the problem head on and then learning that all my fears are coming true. I'm pretty dang smart though. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I know they have to be faced.

Well- want to go to a test drive to where the interview is to be held. I'll be back..

Thank you Orchid and Ark!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ana

ana...

Your post makes me think and wonder a couple of things...

Let me tell you unequivacally that I am not suggesting, alluding, or leading too any thought that your actions are to blame for his affair...

but I am wondering what role your husband sees you in..

does he see you has in charge...taking care of everything and not needed by you...??

I ask because when you stay in control about things he just continues or says things like...

Before his fog always made them "o.k.". Ana doesn't love me anyway-- she's just saying that--

does he really believe you don't love him or don't need him...
and is it possible you doing everything in the house proves him right in his mind...

Again just thinking out loud... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> dangerous at best...

What would happen if you showed him more of your pain..you got his attention with it...perhaps he believes you don't care...
perhaps he needs your drama and pain..once and a while
perhaps he believes you take control don't say anything..speaks volumes about not caring about him...

If you think about it..one thing that WS/OP probably do talk about is emotions and feelings...and BS are so afraid to speak of these things...it does make you wonder what message you are sending...

Have you ever told him that his actions have hurt you to your soul..
does he know that??

I am not talking divorce..I am talking about not living in silence and the unknown...

I'm afraid if his needs aren't being met- then he'll just turn to another affair.

that to me is a terrifying, unrealistic way to live...and must stop...you and he deserve more depth to a relationship...but the only way to get it to acknowledge it and work on it...

I don't know anna..perhaps you need to have an evening alone without the kids...and hit this head on once with how much you do love him...and how much he has hurt you..and how much you can see his pain as well...and how much you believe in healing....perhaps he is waiting for a sign...and perhaps you have been holding that part back...

nothing you do or say..makes you responsilbe for his painful choices and actions...do not take that burden or blame upon yourself...

perhaps your 180 in not in appearing stronger..but appearing to be needier...to him..

hmmmmmmmmmmmm
ARK

Ark-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> does he really believe you don't love him or don't need him...
and is it possible you doing everything in the house proves him right in his mind...

Again just thinking out loud... dangerous at best...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wonder the same thing. I have tried to "let up" and let him take care of things. So far, either two things have happened. He's ticked it didn't happen and thinks I'm just being a ***** because I'm mad at him, or he'll say, oh please- you can do it yourself.. I feel caught in the crossbow, and not sure which way to go..

He did do dishes all weekend. Sounds little to others, big step around here since the A's.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Have you ever told him that his actions have hurt you to your soul..
does he know that?? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not lately- I did in the beginning.. But he wasn't listening at all to me. So lost in the fog. Now that he seems to be coming out of the fog, I feel like I'm "wore out". I don't have any more to give- and I keep telling myself- this is where I have to "kick" for the end of the race. I have to give him the letter- and rock the boat. It says it all, very respectfully...

I'll give the letter- and keep you up to date!

Thanks so much for giving me so much to think about. I needed the push. You too Orchid. Thank you!!! It's always good to see another perspective... Tomorrow is my interview. I almost wonder if he's afraid that I'll leave him once I have a job-- but, I'm afraid he'll leave me once I have a job. Around and around we go...

Ana

I too, loved Orchids reply. I can see this working. We raise horses, and one of the things you never do if you want to get close, is look a horse straight on, you go at him sideways and reach out slowly. You either talk to the wind or the ground, and this is comforting to them and they stand there and listen. That old horses ##s was listening to you all right. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It was sure my experience, and still is, somewhat that they just don't know what happened, and have nothing to say. It takes a long time for them to sort it out... if they're the decent kind, who never meant to hurt you. And the crazy mind games you play on yourself while you're waiting for them to explain can be the worst kind of cruelty.

I agree that you need to express yourself, and then express your love for yourself. Give him some distance and make it clear that his choices affect you, and that you will find the way to look out for yourself. Do it with kindness, and consideration. Leave notes to your whereabouts, for the family's sake, ask him to join you and say okay if he refuses, invite him to dine with you, but don't go out of your way. Let him take care of himself for awhile.

It worked for my h... took a few months and it was awkward, but the day came when he was tired of my independence and said, "WEll, are we just going to run around and do our own thing? I said, "Yes, I guess so. And if I recall, it was your idea." He looked surprised and said, "Would you like to go to a movie?" And that started our slow recovery. It was several weeks though before he moved back to to our bedroom and started acting alive again, but he needed the space and the distance to get interested again.

Of course, now we're onto other issues...does it ever end?