Thanks everyone...esp. Andy. It seems like I've become a bitter twisted woman over all this....when I read my latest posts, and then the replies, I realise taking this action probably wouldn't achieve much. I feel like all the events of the past 5 months have taken their toll on me, and turned me into something I'm not....I used to feel like a warm, caring, loving woman (I guess that's not what my H felt, or he would never have got involved with OW's - he once described me as an ice queen - that hurt me so much - I was never really good at dealing with the strength of his emotions....loved them, but a bit scared of them I guess...easier to protect myself behind my glass wall...never learnt to show emotion in the same freespirited way), but now....<BR>I have taken responsibility for my part in not meeting his needs...our differences in communication styles evolving from how our families related to us when we were growing up....I've recognised his huge need for intimacy (emotional transactions) and his need to feel understood in a way that feels right to him. I have spent my whole marriage trying to show him how much I care about him and want to be with him, but it just hasn't hit home in the right way. I've learned why, and am changing in order to learn better communication skills and to be able to be "emotionally literate", so to speak. I have been going to counselling and still are. I have taken steps to improve my self esteem, and now feel great. Physically I have never looked better (if I say so myself ). I have been taking so much time trying to understand what he has felt are the fundamental differences between us, and trying to change where I can. And for the most part, feel like I am really getting somewhere...although like everything, it will take time. I have truly tried to understand his feelings and why events have happened in our lives ...I don't condone them ...but I guess I can understand to some degree. <P>And all for what?<P>My H seems to have used this last affair as an exit affair in some sense. It hasn't gone anywhere, and never will. She won't leave her H for him, but he moved out anyway as his feelings weren't right for me. Has rewritten the history of our marriage it seems. Has never loved me the way he wants to love someone. Has believed he has tried to be understood all out lives together. Believes no matter how much I change, that it will not be enough for him .... he doesn't want to work at a relationship .... wants the feelings he has had for other people to come naturally, not be learnt or worked at. Believes I will never become emotionally literate enough for him ... that his high threashold and need for intimacy can never be met by me.... <P>I feel like I've been working so hard, and changed so much, all for what? I've had the pain of his infidelities, the loss within my relationship of the intimacy which he has so freely given to others (contrary to his belief, I have had the same needs, just not been able to articulate them as well, because in my family, you didn't talk about your feelings, or display emotion or affection....the need was still there....thats what attracted me to him in the first place...the fact that he was so comfortable emotionally). I have missed so much in my marriage, and now I've had to deal with all the pain as well. Somehow, I feel like I deserve something for all this pain and hard work.....and then he left anyway. <P>I love my H so much...I want to feel his hands on me as we make love, I want to touch him and make him shiver, I want to take a bath with him and massage him with oil. I want to be able to show him my deep soul feelings in a way he understands. I want to smile at him, and know that he understands what that means. I want to listen and understand his troubles and have him listen and understand mine. I want to share his joy. I want a partnership. I want romance and passion. I want him to know I would stand by him through anything. That I believe in him, and value his thoughts and opinions. I want to grow old with him. I don't want to share him anymore. And so much more...... But I am denied this.<P>All this makes me feel somewhat bitter and vindictive, untrusting and wary, which are so far removed from my personality it's not funny. It saddens me to look at those things and feel like they are now part of who I am... without me asking for them. I am trying to discard them, because I'll be damned if I'm going to spend the rest of my life feeling like this. Just searching for ways to help that, but what I proposed, I guess just reinforced this. Thanks for letting me vent ...sometimes I feel so angry, and I've never been very good at understanding the feelings behind that ... now I see it is saddness, jealousy, fear and insecurity all tied up together. Thanks for all your support everyone.<P>Hey Andy...seems like things are slowly on the up for you and your wife I wish your twin (my H ) had the same commitment. Look after your wife ... from what you have said, she's much like me ... and I could do with some looking after right now... <P><p>[This message has been edited by sosad (edited September 15, 1999).]

sosad,<P>I'm sure you are not really a bitter vindictive person. You are not changed into that type of person. Let's just call it temporary insanity. It'll go away.<P>My gosh, woman! I can literally see the love you feel for your husband flowing off your post, and I feel so sad for you. I wish your husband could read that post. It's very effective.<P>I think my wife came from the same type of family as you, one where communication of emotions was a very low priority. I wouldn't necessarily classify her as an "ice queen", but she's not exactly a volcano of passion either... And even though I tend towards the emotional side like your husband, there are bad parts to that as well. For instance, I have a nasty temper that can flare up instantly. I don't yell at my wife or my son, nothing like that. But I totally lose patience with freeway traffic, or other inane day-to-day things. I blow up. It's a love-buster that I'm trying to control, but it's hard.<P>Well hang in there, and continue to improve yourself. It's still a good thing what you are doing, even if your husband never comes back. It can only help you for any future relationships you may have. Hopefully the future relationship will be a renewal with your husband, but if not, at least you'll be prepared for anything!<P>--andy

Hey, thanks Andy for that . Part of the problem is that I have feelings for him which I haven't been able to express too well in the past, but as I have become more "literate", I feel like I want to share them with him sooooo much, but now, have to keep them to myself - one of lifes little ironies I guess.

<BR>God bless you for your strength and humility.<BR>He cheated on you and left you and you<BR>have done all the work to <BR>assess yourself and improved yourself and love him and want him back.<P>You have the gift of forgiveness..<BR>He is a lucky man for you.<BR> <BR>Good luck.<BR>

Thanks Broken Man for chipping in....I need all the support and encouragement I can get!<P>Andy, was just reading a post you put on another thread, and it really struck a chord with me, not quite sure why, but it did anyway.<BR> <BR>Quote: (I'm not sure how to do it properly, like most others here have worked out!)<P>"There are different aspects of fantasy. The love I felt for the OW was not a fantasy. But the fantasy was that I thought I could be happier with her than with my wife. The fantasy was in not realizing that any relationship takes work, whether its with my wife or with the OW."<P>I appreciate your honesty and ability to express yourself. Bet this gets you into some difficult situations sometimes, if you know what I mean Hope your new job is going ok. Does your wife feel happier and more secure now? I hope so....for both of you. Bye<P>Everyone else, please add to this thread.....didn't mean to monopolize it by talking to Andy so much - it's just that I feel he is so much like my H, he manages to give me good insight......However,I really value everyone elses support here so much as well. <P>

Good morning everyone ...and goodnight to me!! (11pm) Guess I can hug the pillow Will check in again in the morning.... maybe I can catch someone online...time difference is a pain!!!

Good morning!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I love my H so much...I want to feel his hands on me as we make love, I want to touch him and make him shiver, I want to take a bath with him and massage him with oil. I want to be able to show him my deep soul feelings in a way he understands. I want to smile at him, and know that he understands what that means. I want to listen and understand his troubles and have him listen and understand mine. I want to share his joy. I want a partnership. I want romance and passion. I want him to know I would stand by him through anything. That I believe in him, and value his thoughts and opinions. I want to grow old with him. I don't want to share him anymore.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I would grovel in the hot sand of the Sahara to hear those words from my special one. She too had a fling, seemingly just to scare me off. Hang in there until you just can't do it anymore, SoSad. Sounds like you're making great progress, regardless of the outcome.<P>EC

sosad,<P>I just started my new job today. I don't have a PC yet so I wasn't able to go on the internet at all, nevermind coming to the forum! It's ordered, but for some reason hasn't come in yet... arrgh! makes it rather difficult to do any work! I had to use someone else's PC for a while today.<P>So here's my first day in a nutshell: first of all, I just caught a cold (started yesterday). Yuck! Then of course my wife and I got into a fight last night, so no sleep at all. Then I got into the new work place to find that my PC wasn't there yet, the office I was supposed to use was still filled up with storage stuff, and 3 outta the 5 guys I work with were out of town! sheesh! Not a very auspicious start. Still, it wasn't all that bad. They guys I work with are good friends of mine, so I feel very much at home there.<P>Yes, I've gotten into trouble once or twice from posts I've made here (in fact, that was part of the fight we had last night). We've sorta made up again... but I'm a little depressed today for some reason. Maybe some withdrawal kicking in again... <sigh> I hate feeling that way.<P>BTW, sosad -- if you want to figure out how to do the fancy stuff like bold, or italics or <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>quoting<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> click on the little link right underneath where it says "Your Reply" (it's there when you are actually replying to a thread)... the link says "UBB Code is ON". Click there and you'll find out how to do all the cool tricks.<P>--andy<p>[This message has been edited by airheart (edited September 15, 1999).]

Hi Drmweaver, wish my H wanted to know how I felt, and how much love I have for him, just that I found it hard to express it in the past. I too would love to hear things like this from my H. Now...knowing they were true. I've been fed so many lies, and he has used his beautiful words to make me feel good in the past, then ripped them out from under me by his actions, or by telling me he is saying things he doesn't mean.I would grovel in the hot sand of the Sahara too if I thought it might help! But I've done enough grovelling over the past months though...not good for anyone really....I'm having to let go now to my hopes and dreams for us. I think he knows I love him, but other things get in the way when we relate to each other. It's like we are on two different radio frequencies, but he is not interested in us both "turning the dial", so to speak and coming up with a new frequency of our own, only in me adjusting my frequency completely to his. Guess his feelings for me aren't strong enough to want to make that happen. Maybe he's right...maybe our relationship was never meant to be.....doesn't feel like it to me but......don't all relationships require work? I guess his relationships with the OW's weren't as much effort as with me....felt right for him. Just thinking out loud.......<P>Hey Andy....thanks for the tip re. UBB code, couldn't for the life of me work that one out before!! Another of life's little ironies....my H works in I.T. - usually I just ask him for advice. Now when I need it.....Hope your cold gets better, maybe the withdrawal is setting in a bit because you have moved to a new workplace, away from OW? Maybe your wife is picking up on that, and it is causing tension...I could usually pick up when my H was thinking about her...caused me lots of pain, and I felt myself get tangled up inside, and defensive to things....self preservation I guess. Hang in there, it's always stressful starting a new job and settling in ....at least you have some friends there. Bye

<P> I QUIT