Sincere1 is a perfect example of an OP who should never be bashed here or elsewhere - she made a mistake, knew it was a mistake and fought through it and never tried to justify it.

I read over there too and it made me mad enough to write the above post. The way they joke about the patheticness of NC letters for example. They see it as something the BS 'made' the WS do so it does not really matter - what they miss is that we WS's can only be MADE to do something because the consequences (losing our spouse) are not palatable to us.

Sad sad sad... for the OP's who are genuinely hurting and upset I have no ill-will or criticism, for the ones who think it is fun and exciting and have no remorse in their soul? Well, let them have their illusions, the ones who sound like they 'like' their situation sound like they are very good at kidding themselves.

Way 2, they know all about this site, but they can't handle it. They don't want to face what they are doing because most of them think it is their right to have an affair.

23-some may have feelings for the OW, but my H said he just wanted to have sex with her to get it out of his system and he never cared about her. Every case is different, and no he was not saving my feelings because he also told me that they never talked, even about me, that was not the point of that relationship, so some may have feelings, maybe some do love their OW, but I doubt it. Just look at what they do to them after d-day. That is where the loyalty and love is. As for better sex, says who? Again, just a generalization. New sex is always fun, so it just doesn't add up.

Y'know something...reading that TOW thread gives me a whole new appreciation for the feelings of the BS toward an OP.

It's true, FWS's sometimes have a hard time on this board...even the repentant, remorseful ones like myself. It's not easy to be perfectly candid here sometimes, and I've "left" a couple of times, only to return because being here is good for my marriage's recovery.

However, after reading crap like that, I can see why it can be difficult for BS's (especially those for whom the scars are still raw) to have a benevolent spirit toward anyone who has taken part in infidelity.

Let's face it, any way you slice it, the OP is the bad guy. Because infidelity is WRONG. There is simply no justifying it. Even when a marriage is bad. (If it's that bad, and you can't resist spending "passionate" weekends in bed with someone who is not your wife, then do everyone a favor and get a divorce!)

I am just grateful for the kindness of BS's on here who have accepted me and actually listen to anything I have to say.

<small>[ September 22, 2003, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: Sincere1 ]</small>

Sincere1 -

Know what you still don't get? Your screen name is perfect. Darned near anything is forgivable when the person who sinned admits and repents. Not just talking about our Boss, dear, but ordinary human beings as well.

Yup, I have gotten pounded a time or 12 here for being a FWS but after a while hon we changed our itinitials to F ws with the emphasis on the F.

Know something? in your case and in mine, as brutal as it was, I'm betting both of our spouses love the person who has resulted as much as they hate what it took to get there.

I hate the affair but I am better for it, in a perfect world it would not have taken a natural disaster to make us change but in the end - the CHANGE is what to focus on and keep building.

proud of you my pondmate/sister :-)

Knowing you are a good wife/woman.
Hold your head high, don't let any man or OW make you feel low self esteem.
Never have to lower your standards, morals, values or panties to get a man!
Be the kind of woman with much to offer that makes him know he must marry you if he wants the ultimate prize and keep it!
Good women do not have to lie, cheat, steal and sneak to attract or keep a man!
Let's face it, there is hardly a woman alive who can't just throw it in a man's face and get laid.
How many OW get the man to want to be with them without being a push over?
How many UH here would admit if they only talked and no sex, would have gotten involved to point of wanting to leave wife? Not many I'd bet!
My H had to marry me to sleep with me! I didn't propose to him, he proposed to me!
If US and OP think it's the love of the century, why are you sleeping with each other before you take your vows?
Try no sex and see how long your soul mate sticks with you!
Men can have sex without even thinking about it, so why are these OP so sure they've hooked the US?
Men do not marry every woman they sleep with!
OW would be wise to remember, you're just another free piece of variety to most men.
If you're so hot, so righteous, keep your drawers on and see how much he loves you!
This is one wife here that did not and would not lower anything to catch a man. He had to respect me, love me and want me and marry me first for the wonderful woman I am!
If a relationship is based simply on what two people think is awesome sex, got news for them. It's the same with all couples at first, but eventually familarity sets in and then what do you do? Sex is still good, but that old tingle from newness wears off.
You better have a lot more to offer when it does!
Good women know their worth and wear it like a badge of honor!
LouLou

One thing I noticed about the GloryB site is that it looks the same as this site(I guess the TOW people are now using the same InfoPop web service as the Harleys). So it appears the same on the screen. Very weird to have them look the same as this. Almost like it adds legitimacy.

I will ask Steve about this the next time we talk.

In His arms.

<small>[ September 22, 2003, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

New JerseyActually it is more like 2% of marriages that start from an affair fail.
I think your numbers are backwards.

Something like 2% of marriages that start from an affair work out.

A person having and affair is more likely to be with the spouse than the affair partner in 5 years.

Chris, I think you're right. Hard to keep up with the numbers now days. I'd read that 25% of marriages break up due to A's.
And of those, only about 5% wind up with OP and of those, most fail in far less than 5 yrs?
Thanks for the correction to that statistic. LouLou

2ofakind, Absolutely loved your last post! I love the comparison to a used condom!
Someone said how come if it's fog the R sometimes last 10 yrs?
Well, I have a question for that one too. How come if spouse is so undesirable the US stays in the marriage for 30 yrs or more? And continues to stay?
OP swallow such lies and deceit that the A partner is so unhappy, and begging to get out of the M. Well? Why have they stayed so long and who's holding a gun to their heads?
SEX with OP isn't better, more desirable, in most instances, but simply something new!
OP are a free piece of variety.
Even a Gourmand wants a hamburger sometimes. So they go off and sneak one.
Then return home to dine on steak and cavier!
LouLou

I almost erased it... but I read a post over there that really made me angry. I have no hatred toward OP's, especially the sad ones getting used and lied to or the ones who are as caught up in fog as the WS...

My issue is with the ones who brag and make fun of this site with no regard for who they hurt - even though they seem aware of it. Thought maybe a good slap was in order.

This place did me a world of good and saved my silly rear end when things were pretty bad. Mocking the BS and belittling people who are in a real marriage just didn't sit well.

I am cranky when my sweety is not home :-)

OOps thats what I meant, 2% that start as affairs make it, the rest fail

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Mortarman:
[QB]One thing I noticed about the GloryB site is that it looks the same as this site(I guess the TOW people are now using the same InfoPop web service as the Harleys). So it appears the same on the screen. Very weird to have them look the same as this. Almost like it adds legitimacy.
QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I doubt it's anything as 'sinister' as that.. UBB is one of the most popular forum software packages out there.

It is very sad .... many longterm OW's have a very ugly past history of being victims of abuse, in one form or another.

OM .... not so much a history of abuse, but usually a history of parental abandonment in one form or another.

The OP re-write their pain, trying to "right" the wrongs of their youth. Creating more wrong.

They often raise children who suffer in nearly the same way they suffered. A cycle is created.

Abandonment and abuse .... whenever you read these types of posts .... look for the unwritten meaning..... which in my estimation is often:

SOMEONE PLEASE LOVE ME BECAUSE MY MOMMIE AND DADDY DID NOT .... and they embrace scraps, because that's what love looked like to them as a child.

Pep

<small>[ September 23, 2003, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

see I knew it! .. I knew that if I opened up this thread... I would post instead of being in bed trying to get rid of this dang head cold <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

but I followed 2oaks postings here so what can I do?

2oak .. that condom post .. now THAT should be posted there! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Bravo

One thing I would add is something that I spoke with IC a while ago and will probably make a thread of a little later. . . "How can it really be 'love' if it's built on a foundation of lies?"

But that's for another time ...

and 23 sex is better with your spouse.... it's just the excitement of a new body that makes it seem better, for a while ... sex was and will always be better with my husband than with my FOP. And as far a my husband is concerned, sex with me is better than it was with both OPs.

Both had a lot lacking in knowledge, even the "professional OW" (which I do have) and deep down (and a FWS I can speak) a WS knows they can never be comfortable with this person (OP) .. they must always watch their back, even though they think they can...

Why? how can you trust someone who is helping you go against your moral code? That little voice maybe shouted down or unheard through the noise of the A ... but it is there ... if that little voice weren't there -- the WS would march right up to BS and introduce you to each other, their family, their pastor, etc. there'd be no sneaking around.

"Hello Rev. Caulder! I know you baptised me and watched me grow, you married me and want only best. Well I think I've found it and I'd like to introduce you to XXXXXX. Yes, I'm seeing her while I am going home to sleep with my wife, pay the bills and be a father to my kids. Oh XXXXXX is wonderful! Life with her and my wife are just the best. And I feel sooo wonderful about this new relationship I'm in that I just want and will tell the whole world. She's coming with me to church next Sunday, I thought I'd introduce her to the congregation. Wifey is in the choir so there won't be a seating problem."

(yeaaaah right)

Yours is a life of hiding and shadows.

Sex/making love is better when you have a history with that person ... when your spouse has cared for you through your illnesses, and you them, the dumb investments, and mistakes that cause one spouse to question everything and who they can trust, have children with, and stay with you through all the stresses of real life, and visa versa (the bills, the puking kids, the deaths, the births, the illnesses, the weddings, the promotions, the pink slips, the being very poor to being well off) and the mistakes and triumphs, in short LIFE (not fantasy) .... this is the tie, the bond, that makes sex so much more than sex ... so much more complete than an OP will ever enjoy.

And whether you believe in karma or not, when you live a life that hurts others, especially innocents, and you care not but for yourself -- it will all come back to you. What goes around, comes around.

way2

<small>[ September 23, 2003, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: way2 ]</small>

pepper I agree with you ..

and that's my problem with the TOW board ... instead of working through those issues and getting to a healthier lifestyle.. and healthier person themselves...

the TOW board legitimizes what they are doing and keeping them there instead of helping them up and out.

How many OW there are told to go to IC and work on why they accept this type of love and relationship ... and challenge them as to why they accept that they aren't worth more?

I don't think it happens much if at all .. they just revel in their misery and maintain it ... thinking that they are happy.

I have a basic problem with sites, boards, etc. that keep people down and doesn't encourage them to be better than they are.

way2

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Or would you like to swing on a star
Carry moonbeams home in a jar
And be better off than you are
Or would you rather be a pig" --
Bing Crosby songs
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ September 23, 2003, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: way2 ]</small>

Way2 is stalking my threads waiting for some poor philanderer to get whacked because I miss my sweety while she's away, bad, bad girl way2!

For the deluded OP's who really think that while all evidence, ALL of it says that an affair with a married person will end badly and do harm... they still think they are different.

Sad really.

I wonder if the ones who are the most cocky are secretly the most insecure? The discussions of their lingerie over there and how wild it makes their MM who doesn't get that at home? Puh-leeeze.

Making a marriage is an accomplishment.
Making a family is an accomplishment
Making a decision to honor both over time is an accomplishment
Making blood flow into a penis and sperm flow out is not worhty of a lifetime achievement award.

Y'know - it is probably not smart to go there. It will make you angry and what you hear there is what the OW has convinced herself is true, with the help of a foggy WS. Going over there is like picking a scab. Want to understand the affair - find a FWS who is willing to be honest a year after the affair is dead and buried and ask them.

Of course the gloryb folks will tell you they are lying and that they really did have something special (See note about difficulty level of creating an erection)

Way2, you hit it up there when you said sex/making love. That is the difference my H told me. With OW it was sex,um, well almost sex. She couldn't and he lost it.
With me he says it's making love and there was none of that feeling, bonding or sweet afterglow afterwards with her.
She, herself said they weren't compatible but didn't say how.
One thing I know for certain about my H, is he is an absolute fantastic lover. So if she felt incompatible, he wasn't using all his moves. LOL
He also swears he didn't do the same with her as with me. That he did not feel like lavishing on her or the need to see her completely satisfied.
She was not responsive in the same passionate way I am. Well? doesn't that show in a way that even though there is the excitement built from the fantasy that the actual act is less thrilling?
Of course, mine was only with her twice and according to him, the first time they didnt' even try due to her needing to get some help first for the neglect to that area for years!I suppose she thought she could reverse all that in a few weeks time. Won't work! Use it or lose it!
Actually, after first couple attempts, he went off spending days with old buddies, and looking up his old homestead, etc, while she went off with girlfriends in that town from old HS days. He also tried to come home early but due to his bookings in airlines, had to stay rest of time or pay a much higher fee! You know, one of those length of time bookings/cost. He had not been to his hometown in over 23 yrs, grandparents gone, father gone, but he wanted to reminisce? Sp? That, of course, was his lie to go there to begin with. But he did do those things, then told me I was right about you can't go home again.
Bottom line, she was all talk in her emails and no action when it came time!
I've read many books, talked to counselors and I get the same answer. They had sex or tried to, while H and I make love!
2ofakind, I'm so glad you put your post. Happy you did not delete it! It hit the nail on the head and needed saying.
I think OW protest too much as they know well they were used, dumped and forgotten.
Sort of like a kid with a new toy at Christmas?
They want it so badly, they get it, play with it a bit then it goes to the bottom of the toy box or out in the garbage!
OW feel the pain of being used and trying to salvage their own self esteem when they start attacking BW's. AS the song goes, "You aren't woman enough to take my man".
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> LouLou

P.S.2ofakind, I'd love that post you put over on the Facereality site to OW. LOL Also, I'm sure the BW site would love it as well. Somebody needs to take those OW down a few notches.
I had gone there to read, sick of it and requested to be unregistered. I finally got my profile off that dastardly site!
LouLou

2oak
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Way2 is stalking my threads waiting for some poor philanderer to get whacked because I miss my sweety while she's away, bad, bad girl way2!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">lol <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
yeah I guess I should go to bed instead of seeing what all my friends are up to.

got to make sure your taking up my slack from last week's tussle to this weeks cold.

btw you're doing a great job! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

way2

2ofaKind,

Just had to write that I appreciate the "used condom" post! Months after my A, I realized that the OM had made me feel like a dirty kleenex. "Used condom" is an even better description!

I printed the "used condom" post to read again if I need to - not to torture myself, but because I never want to forget how awful it felt to be an OW, in case I'm ever tempted to be foggy about OM again! Thanks!