There is little in here in reference to multiple affairs perhaps sexual addiction. <BR>All that I have read about why affairs occur hits home so hard it hurts.. and is written so clearly.. I so much needed this years ago.<P>But I did not have the ordinary affair.<BR>After 7 years of faithful marriage and our first child and a lot of other factors.. the love busters got to us. I was lonely/dissappointed and frustrated. I spoiled most attempts to reach out and show my love and deposit love units with lovebusters. her dissapointment in me was enuff for our sexual relationship to non exist. I did not want to face rejection or conflict of initiating unwanted sex with her anymore. so I stopped trying.<P>After months and months of rejection<BR>and frustration (Oh how I wish I had this site then.. or someone to talk to)<BR>I began down a dark path of deceipt to <BR>fulful my emotional needs for sex. <BR>I am a bit of a loner and could not would not meet someone at the office/a friend/someone at a bar. It was too public and I was too afraid and cautious. But I deleberately wanted someone to fill unmet needs in my marriage. <P>Prostitutes.. and meeting women online<BR>to meet for sex. I hid it all.. lead a double life. I would not/could not comit to<BR>anyone for love.. it was just sex.. but <BR>for that the affairs did not last.<P>So she had figured out enuf after 12 years of marriage and 2 beautiful young children to confront me.<BR>I folded.. I admitted it all<BR>I so wanted to end it all and try to heal our marriage. It was such a weight on me for years.<P>Why couldn't I do that before?.. why couln't I stop and work on it before I cheated?.. or stop on my own and work things out?<P>It has been about 7 weeks since the truth about the last 5 yrs has come out.<BR>We have each been seeing individual councelors.<BR>I soo badly want to work things out..<BR>But I have cheated worse then anyone<BR>in here. (I never cheated with my heart.. <BR>but that sounds so dumb now.. I hurt he soo badly)<BR>My own councelor after talking with her now says there is no hope.. I feel <BR>a bit deceived by him.. He is a good man and was doing his job.. but <BR>I so wanted someone with a divorce buster attitude that could help us heal and give it all we could to try to reconcile.<BR>Someone to give us hope hat healing can come even in these devistating circomstances.<P>I love her and our children dearly and so want to remain a family. They are so young<BR>(3 and 7). I want to give it every chance we can to recover from this. <P>Is there any hope?<P>Is there a marriage councelor out there in the world who thinks there is any hope for our marriage? Is there any precidence on this? <BR> <BR>Can time and therapy and these techniques<BR>restore love and help her from her current state of pain, anger, total lack of respect for me and what I have done? <P>I so much need hope right now..<BR><P>------------------<BR>God bless us everyone!<BR>

it's late and I didn't want you to think that your post went unread. Many posters do not stay up this late, so don't despair, you will get answers.<P>First of all, I am a betrayer, but not in your situation. That doesn't mean that I don't understand your pain. Secondly, there is ALWAYS hope until there isn't any left. That may sound silly, but think about it. Your counselor may be a good man, but as long as you want to change and love your wife and children and she hasn't divorced you yet there is hope. <P>As I said, I'm not an expert in your specific situation, but you sound so sad and I wanted you to know that someone read what you wrote tonight and will pray for your recovery.<P>I'll check again tomorrow to make sure you've gotten some answers.<P>

Broken man -<P>First I want to welcome you to MB.<P>I noticed that your first posting was on the gratitudes thread - how wonderful and your attitude is terrific.<P>I think, dear man, that we will have a lot to talk about......I wished with all my heart that you were my H and had come to some realizations!!!<P>But alas, you weren't!!<P>My H has been having many affairs throughout our marriage. I have all sorts of speculations as to why, but nothing from his own mouth. Oh, he's told me details but never the Whys!!<P>Let me give you some hope right of the bat.<P>I have stuck by my H for many years and am still trying even though he filed and served me with divorce papers. Might be foolish of me.....but I love him and realize that he has a problem within himself that needs to be addressed. I only wish that he realized it also.<P>I don't know your wife, but believe me that this kind of thing can be worked out and not only that....but will lead the two of you to a better and more fulfilled life with each other than one could ever hope for.<P>That will only happen with complete honesty, work -both on yourselves and with each other, using the tools for healthy relationships that are found on Dr Harley's site. And a sincere and complete effort!!!<P>So, do not despair!!!!!<P>Anything can be overcome - you just have to work at it....the most important things are time, patience, understanding and love!!<P>A BIG HUG to you for taking the first step by coming here and starting to learn.....Bring your wife by.<P>Strength to you,<P>Sheba

hello broken man and welcome to our illustrious little group! Nice to have you join us. I for one am happy to see a male here with a problem similar to my h's. <BR>Please be aware that there are some here that will berate you for your sexual compulsion/problem as not all believe this is a true addiction.<BR>I do hope my h will return here sometime and talk with you. I will encourage him, but that is about all I can do!! My h and I always had what appeared a strong marriage and he traveled overseas a lot. Most of the sexual encounters were there, but there were a few 'friends' and old girlfriends involved as well. I never knew there was an issue until after 20+ yrs. Yeah-he was an excellent liar and very good at the game.<BR>Wow, I do feel the pain your wife has. I also hear many things that my H has said to me-they jump out of your post at me! "I never cheated with my heart" is verbatim from my h. Amazing.<BR>Broken, I will tell you that none of the counselors I talked with thought there was a chance for our marriage. This was the word from one couples counselor and two individual ones. They are not in the position to tell wither of you that there is no hope! Granted this is very very hard to overcome, but it is not impossible. Instead of regular therapy I would suggest that you and wife attend retrouvaille first. SHe may still want to have individual counseling after and I would make sure it is someone that is familar with sexual compulsions!! Might even suggest solution oriented brief therapy. Try to find a few books by Patirck Carnes-I cannot remember the titles off hand and have loaned them. But he is definitely one of the best in the field. The books helped me a great deal. Other books that helped were Emotional Resilience and After the Affair.<BR>Affair books are a bit hard in this circumstance due to the lack of emotion and control the betrayer feels, but the coping skills and healing stages are essentially the same.<BR>I would urge your wife to look at her own heart. She is in a lot of pain right now, and it may be a slow journey. Please be patient and loving with her. Some things that almost made me nuts-he would minimize the problem by stating "I never did not love you", "I never meant to hurt you", "It was never about love", "maybe I could have controlled it better if I knew how deeply you would have been effected'. <BR>I really wanted to deck him when I heard those kinds of statements! What I wanted to hear was apologies and committments. I wanted to actually see the remorse. Tell me then show me was the magic combo. <BR>We set limits and that helped both of us. Initially my h did not even realize that he was flirting everytime he talked to a female-I had to show him. It was very tough, but now he does not even talk to other women if I am not there because he is still unsure of the boundaries. <BR>THis has been a tough year for us. But there is hope for you if you both are willing to help each other heal. Lots of time and lots of effort, with a plan that you both can follow together.<BR>Maybe your wife will come online Or e-mail? Do you have a COSA group in your city? (((hugs)))

For Patrick Carnes, check out <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1568380550/o/qid=937423103/sr=8-1/002-1676348-4552849" TARGET=_blank>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1568380550/o/qid=937423103/sr=8-1/002-1676348-4552849</A> <P>[This message has been edited by Chris (CA123) (edited September 15, 1999).]<p>[This message has been edited by Chris (CA123) (edited September 15, 1999).]

Thanks you all for your responses<P>new_beginning<BR>Yes I want to change and love my wife and children dearly. We are not Divorced yet but she has decided to. Its so much for her to handle. All her coucil seen to think it should occur as fast as possible.. its moving so fast. thank you for your prayers.<P><BR>Sheba<BR>Thank you for the hope. I so much <BR>want to work with her for a better and more fulfilled life with each other.<P>How were you able to overcome<BR>the anger, disrespect and become loving and forgiving of him for what he has done?<P>The main points she can't get over are the risks I took that could have given her an STD<BR>and the moral issues of what I did.. she has no respect for me. She thinks she could never have sex with me again now.<BR>If I phrased them right.. these are her main issues shy she thinks we cannot reconcile and has decided to Divorce.<P>It has been about 7 weeks since she found out<BR>(It took a while to tell her all.. it was all soo bad) And we have had such a rough emotional time with it.. and dealing with further suspicions and anger.. we have not been able to effectively use and of these technbiques yet without the lovebusters coming in.<BR>Is that long enuff to make thise decision?<BR>I hope she has not made it prematurely based on an emotional state that I so hope can ease over time. I think she will come and use this discussion group with me.<P>cl<BR>Thank you for the insight.<BR>I want to reach out to her and begin to rebuild trust, respect and love in her.<BR>But now I know there are certain things that you mentioned trigger a negative response.<BR>I am torn tho.. since she has decided I have been counciled not apologize or tell her I love her any more.<P>How were you able to decide to work on your marriage?.. did you have any of the feelings I mentioned she has above? <BR> <BR>I don't know if I have an addiction or what. I have not been diagnosed with a sexual addiction but I am trying to understand what<BR>drove me to the degrees I went to.<BR>Drove me beyong the limits of my own morality and safety. I know I was married for 7 years with no compulsion or unfaithfulness.. and then it started when we had some difficult times times and just snowballed.<P>What is COSA?<P>Chris<BR>sorry the amazon link doesn't work<BR> <P>------------------<BR>God bless us everyone!<BR>

Dear Broken Man: My H and I started counselling sessions together, last Nov. Although my H has denied ever having been unfaithful, he agreed to go, knowing full well that was the reason I had seeked out help for us. The first thing our counsellor said (after H denied affair to her) was that she was surprised that I had not also had an affair! We still go faithfully every week, and are resolving alot of the issues that brought us to this point.<P>I have to disagree with you feeling that your wife has NO respect for you. It must have been so difficult to step up to the plate, and admit what you had done. That took much courage for you to do that. It is going to be a rough road for the both of you, but if you continue to show your wife and children remorse, love, respect, and gratitude, things can only get better.<P>Perhaps you might share this site with her. There are many success stories on this board, and it might give your wife encouragement to hang in there for the long haul.<P>Best of Luck to you.<P>Success Story (why me)<P>

Broken Man,<BR>Yes, it's WAY too early for anyone to be making such life altering decisions!<BR>So, you think you're the worst offender? Actually the style, duration, reasons for and variety of betrayal make less difference than the simple fact of betrayal itself. For the story of a man who did a greater variety of stuff than you - for longer - and then worked it out with his wife (not easy) to eventually became the co-host with her of the only substantial alternative to MB, go to <BR>www.vaughan-vaughan.com and get ahold of Beyond Affairs. It's written by both, taking turns telling the whole story. If THEY could do it, it's not beyond anyone to do. (Read the Questions and the Articles while you're there...then come back here.)<BR>Don't let anything irreversible happen until you BOTH have exhausted ALL possibilities! Make sure that your wife knows that many others have been able to come back from this kind of trauma and eventually forge a better relationship with their spouses than they'd had "before".

Why me<BR>Thank you for your encouragement.<BR>I really need that right now.<BR>The "respect" issue is her feelings<BR>.. but I wish it was just my feelings and not a statement from her.<BR>So your councelor was surprised you did not have an affair? Mine was surprised she had not left me already. I so much hope there is a pro marriage councelor out there who can help us in our situation. She has decided and wants to move quickly with the divorce.<BR>I think she feels further counceling will help convince me that that is the right solution so things can go more smoothly in the divorce. I just can't give up yet.. we have not had the chance to try to heal yet with this kind of support.<P>Dave P<BR>Thank you. I have bookmarked that site and begun reading there. Yes we really need to know of and hear the sucess stories.<BR>I am just so scared that she is firm in her decision already. She said only a miracle.<BR>Well I'm looking for one.<BR>

I can't speak for your wife, but my own situation involves cheating once the birth of my children occurred, and that PO'd me even more. That so much more was at stake when my H made his decision to step outside the marriage. Like you, my H wasn't looking for a replacement for me. I can hope that your wife realizes with so much more at stake she needs to take this so much more slowly. I question the attitudes put forth by your therapists. You state that you are in individual counseling. Why nothing jointly? My H & I are in joint counseling with a counselor who believes in trying to save marriages, not put a hasty ending to them. <P>I hope that your wife can stop and think about what she is doing. Recently I had a friend whose H cheated on her ask me what I would do if I were in her shoes. Well, I told her what I did, which is all I can offer. I thought about what my H meant to me, what my marriage was prior to the knowledge of his cheating. What would it have taken for me to end it? Just one thing? No. Although it is now obvious that we did have problems in the area of communication and that we both were allowing the other to exit the marriage in other forms, it wasn't obvious then. I couldn't imagine myself not attempting to fix this if my H was committed to rebuilding and repairing what he destroyed. It's been almost 3 months and I have not seen him backslide in his new committments to me once. It's sometimes hard to see that, but when I can remind myself to see that he has kept his promises to me, it has helped. I can only pray that your wife will try to overcome her hurt and look deeply at what your life together has meant before she continues on with the plans to divorce. <P>

hi brokenman,<BR>well, i sure can relate to what your wife is feeling. It took quite sometime for the entire issue to come out and be placed on the table in this house too. A lot of the problem with this is that I wanted to know all the info, and this had been going on for over 20 yrs. He honeslty cuold not remember all the women or times. That sounds pretty pitiful, but as the days passed he would remember a prostitute here and a one night stand there. Broken-the numbers were astounding to any sane person. But he was not sane-he was ill. That is really the only context in which one can look at this and dela with it effectively (imho).<BR>7 wks? That is nowhere near enough time to even sort thru some of her feelings. Hmmm, hard to remember but I believe that at 7 wks I was still bouncing between extreme hate and anger, total self pity and loathing, fear, and pain. The extremes are pretty wild to deal with. I probably should have sought out drug therapy but did not. <BR>You need to realize that to your wife she is seeing that not only did you endanger her life and that of your children, but you shattered her reality. I wondered what world I really lived in? What is this abused feeling I have? The feeling of being so used for so many yrs when I thought I had it all? <BR>I am sorry but I will have to disagree with the counselors that tell you not to iterate how much you love your wife. When I was in that place, H would say that to me, and while I did not beieve it at all, it did help. It helped that he would just repeat the phrase daily, even though I was unable to respond. <BR>Sex was not an issue here because of health problems. Some of the 'oldtimers' know that the last affair/liason made my h very ill. And I sure was not messing around with the possibility of hiv or hepatitis. I would rec that you go get all the testing done-hiv, hepatitis, rpr, herpes, from blood and have cultures done for chlamydia, trich, gc, etc. It is a very important step to take. The hiv testing will take 6 mos, so no unprotected sex with your wife until then. A few things that were postive steps from my h were the testing, the absolute care he showed for me during the 6 mos. This was very hard for me-my greatest need is sex followed by affection. During our marriage there was rarely a day when he was home that we did not have sex. It was hard for me to balance this but he was great at making sure that I was sexually fulfilled but never endangered in any way. It was one way he showed that he did truly care-and it is still very important to our recovery that he took these steps. I guess that for the first time since discovery, I felt that he had ME first and not himself? It is a little complex I guess.<BR>Dave P, thanks for recommending the vaughan book! I had forgotten about it and you recommended it to me months ago. I do wish I had read it sooner in the recovery-like at the stage your wife is at. It would have helped. I had a hard time relating to peggy, but it was definitely an eye opener. THere is proof, in black and white, that it certainly can work! It can be a growing/learning experience for all.<BR>I felt so abandoned by everyone-though I had support if I had reached out for it. The counselors encouraged me to leave, so why did I stay? Because my heart was not convinced that leaving was the best thing. I am a rational thinker, so all this emotional stuff was new to me and interferring with my normal thought processes. <BR>MB, retrouvaille, and lots of patience from my H helped enormously. Retrouvaille helped him to be more open and express his feelings so I could understand him better. It helped him heal, which in turn helped me. While few here understood my h, they helped me sort out my feelings, though irrational at times! <BR>Maybe your wife would come here or e-mail? It is so very hard to find support for this issue and I am sure in her devastation she feels her only alternative is divorce. If she could just hear from one person that she has other options, maybe she would come around? <BR>Order the Vaughan book!! <BR>

Brokenman,<P>I didn't notice anyone mention that you can counsel with Dr. Harley via telephone. It's a little costly, but initially it will help you get started to recovery. He is very helpful regardless of whether or not you and yr wife reconcile!<P>My h too has an addiction problem, and my biggest worry is that he won't be able t control himself forever.<P>Also, don't listen to the c that told you not to tell yr w you love her. He/She is wrong, wrong, wrong. Most counselors are not equipped for marriage counseling, and most times cannot give you the right information. Our c told us (me) that "he can't save our marriage". Uh, then why was I there. I'd obviously cared enough to go to him for help, so why couldn't he help me?<P>Come here often, you'll get better advice, and have yr w come here too. She'll get the support she needs.<P>Take care,<BR>Dragonfly<p>[This message has been edited by Dragonfly (edited September 15, 1999).]

The link now works

This is the Wife speaking...<P>Broken doesn't tell you the whole story.<BR>SOmetime after the euforia of the birth of our first baby..I went through the typical "lack of interest in sex". He was mad and accussed me of having a problem. He made me get checked by my doctor, who confirmed I was fine and lack of interest was normal and it would go away. I told H to learn about it, read about, get informed. He didn't...he got angry.This is when the Emotional Abuse began and this is when he started with the prostitutes. I didn't know about the prostitutes, but I knew he treated me like crap.I told him he needed to see a therpist. He was to manly to do such a thing and sisn't want to spend the money (ps Hookers aren't free either!). <P>He decided to change his job, without any input from me. He chose a job an hour away and announced we had to move. I had to leave my friends and family, but he didn't care, we were moving right next to his whole family. Again without my input, he chose the house (I hated the house). He decided he should have a new car...we couldn't afford it, but he bought it anyway. The house needed a new roof. Could I help in color selection...No Way!<P>Now he would like you to think that was no sex for the last 5 years...he is a liar. We have had ups and downs. For a while I even began to sex with him thinking he would become friendly again, but he continued to treat me like crap. It was very hard for me to want to be close to him so then, we were usually just together whenever I couldn't stand my own sexual desires any longer.. He had disconnected all emotional ties to me. He began to Demand Sex. One night, while I was in the mood, I said somthing like "oooh not yet". He jumped out of bed and started screaming at me! I yelled "You need help...you are a sex maniac".<P>Eventually we deceided to have a second child. It took us four months to conceive. When I became pregnant we were VERY sexually active. Little did I know it was at this time that he got the "itchies" and went to the Dr for STD tests. Him and his Dr decided it was best NOT to tell the pregnant wife. Not only did he not tell me, he did not protect me or my unborn child from his filty diseases. His dr recommended therapy, H declined.<P>After the baby was born he added the Live Cyber Sluts to his list. He would take days off work to be with these sluts. And he engaged in every form of sex with them, unprotected. He wouldn't even mail a letter on his way to work for me, regarding a banking problem we had, claiming that was my thing. He told me our kids would be better off in day care so that I should go out and get a full time job (I work 4 part-time jobs from home, just to make ends meet -- little did I know I was simply supporting his habit).<P>About a year ago he confided to his mother that we had problems...she recommnede therapy and warned him not to cheat (of course he had been cheating for 5 years by then)<P>My love for him was hanging on by a very bare thread. So when I confronted him about some proof I had found, he downplayed it and lied and lied and lied. He broke that thread and I have no feelings left for him. I have lost all trust and all respect. I would feel differently if this was an office affair or something similar. But he chose prostitutes and anonymous cyber women that would meet him the same day for sex. These are the lowest forms of life. I've always been a person of outstanding values and morals. Our values do not match--and so I lost respect. Trust--he works in a field that requires him to be "on-line" all day. Sure I can monitor the money and his milage, but I cannot monitor his internet activity at work. <P>There are certain things I cannot forgive:<BR>1. The quantity of women<BR>2. the "quality" of women (low lifes)<BR>3. putting me and the children at risk for STD<BR>4. His previous treatment of me<P>Since the 48 hours after I found out, I have bought several books, researched internet sites, met with my counselor, his counselor, the elementary school physcologist, and school counselor. Because I have made my desicion to separate, the school professionals suggest I do it as soon as possible, for my son's sake (he is 7.5). He happens to have a great teacher right now who would be an asset in this circumstance -- he NEEDS that stability. I am looking out for my children. H needs to get to the same point as me. I've told him I want an amicable divorce and would allow extremely generous visitation. Basically he can spend 18 hours a day with us...he just can't sleep in the same house. I have no other man (never did), but I would rather be alone than be with him. (By the way, he continually blames me anyway he can - he has accused me of cheating, being a lesbian and being raped...everytime I told him it was simply because he treated me terribly -- but he never listened to me). <P>I feel this man has been instructed on several occasions by many different people on how to handle our problems. But he refused to listen to the advice and simply followed his own selfish ways.

Hi Broken Man's Wife (Could we have a name for you?) -<P>I'm so sorry for the hellish nightmare that you have endured.....I do understand it - all too well. Except for the children factor (very big factor) you have lived my life in very many ways. I have lost respect for my husband also. The STD thing --UGH!! One of my biggest problems that I've dealt with....H didn't use protection either. What really makes me crazed is that I always told him that if anything happened with another woman - we can get through it - but NEVER touch me after without letting me know - I don't want to die because you had sex!!!! I was petrified of this kind of thing and H knew it......but could he have the gonads to tell me - NO!!! Could he have killed me? - YES. I completely understand and have been in my mess for years also. He fessed up 1 1/2 ago - even though I suspected for a while before that. <P>I would like to email with you if you don't mind. I think that we could help each other through this. I found this site in May - it has been a life and sanity saver. My email is Sheba101@webtv.net - Please write to me and maybe we can help each other understand and come to terms with this decadence we have had shoved on us.<P>I am still wondering how much of this behavior is considered sexual addiction or how much is selfishness and fantasy. It's probably all three and more!!!<P>If Broken Man has been slapped in the face, so to speak, with the reality of your leaving and divorcing, I can only say that I am glad that he has seen the truth of himself and his actions and hope that he will get the correct kind of counseling and work very hard on learning what a relationship is all about.<P>I have to tell you that I have learned so much about relationships and communication that I needed to know.....despite the fact that his actions (and your H's) are not something we contributed to. No, we weren't perfect within the marriage, I'm sure. And yes, we can improve things about ourselves, I'm also sure. But, this kind of behavior comes from something deep within themselves and add that to a tendency of selfishness perhaps to begin with and these men of ours are very messed up!!<P>Your husband seems to have started to realize this.....mine has not - at least not that I have seen or heard. <P>PLEASE - EMail me - I really would love to correspond with you and I want to help with your H also because He could be mine!!!! Maybe he can help me figure out things!!<P>Hugs to you and a prayer for strength,<P>Sheba<P><p>[This message has been edited by Sheba (edited September 15, 1999).]

hello brokens wife, thanks for joining us and sharing your feelings. <BR>I will come back tonight after work, but wanted you to know that there actually are a number of people that understand where you are right now. We don't run around passing out business cards stating our h's had sexual problems but we are now recovering nicely! Never the less, here we are-patience, butterfly, dragonfly, sheba, enlightened, and some others that I am too senile to remember right now!!<BR>Yep, he was selfish-totally and completely wrong. I don't think anyone here will disagree with you, and your H has said how wrong he was. And he did leave out some important parts of the story. YOur h has a serious problem. A serious illness that needs to be dealt with. What is he doing about that? He said counseling, but how are they working on this behavior without confronting it??<BR>(((hugs)))

My wife and I have been separated for almost five months. I am 45 and my wife is 43. We have been married for 25 years. Four years ago I was seeing a counselor and dealing with the death of my sister and brother in-law in 1992 from AIDS. My sister had an affair with a co-worker who infected her. They both got divorced and married each other. I had numerous affairs myself prior to 1992, none of which my wife new about. She did have suspisions though and I denied everything(lied). I decided in order for me to stop my bad behavior I needed to tell my wife the truth. I also wanted to improve our marriage by communicating my needs better with my wife. I wanted us to both be more honest and open with each other. It was very difficult for me to talk about sex with my wife. Is there anyone in a similar situation<p>[This message has been edited by M Go BLUE (edited September 22, 1999).]

hi brokens wife, Please give us a name for you!! I hate calling anyone the h or w, makes it sound like a posession sometimes. Though in this case it is a title of respect for you.<BR>I have to say that I understand many of your thoughts and feelings. Nos 1,2, and 3 I can relate to. But not no. 4. My h never was particularly terrible and did not mistreat me until just before discovery-then he was simply a monster. He was physically and verbally abusive to me last oct. I am making no excuses for his actions-he was grossly out of line to ever strike me. We now see that the years of sexual problems were coming to an alltime high-the explosion was actually imminant. Not at all something I would ever repeat. Yeah-I sound real hard in this area because I am!! I will not tolerate the physical or emotional abuse again. Been there and never want to be there again. <BR>There are boundaries we need to keep ourselves safe sometimes. Protection from harm, either from abuse or from std's. And we need to keep our kids safe too. Hard things to do when you are in so much pain. <BR>There really is hope, and though all of us have different causes of the pain, we do take the similar steps to heal. <BR>I would urge you to back off from divorce at this early stage. There is ample time for that later. I am sorry that your counselors have given you this advice, quite similar to what I heard. I know without a doubt how very wrong they were. I am glad that I did not follow the early advice I received. I got hold of my rational thought process and saw that if it had taken 20+yrs to get to this stage, what is the hurry to divorce? After all, this state is a wopping 30 dys til final, so what was the hurry!? And I have children that love and want their dad around. He is a good dad-he deserves his kids and they deserve him. Separation may be good but only you can decide that.<BR>I had a separation for a few months earlier this yr when h was sent overseas again. I am not so sure it was good timing-in fact it sucked because of the little faith I had in him. But in many ways it was good. I had time to find myself, to sort thru many issues that may have been clouded with him around and close. And he was ill-I was sick of caring for him daily as a constant reminder of his inability to maintain some control. <BR>I spent a lot of time finding myself, learning about what was truly important to me in life, where my strengths and weaknesses were. I guess I wanted to feel the real calling of my life-I wanted to know for certain that divorce was the correct step to take to realize the calling. I wanted freedom from the deep pain. <BR>I am still on the journey and wonder if it will ever end. But divorce would not have stopped the pain, it would have complicated my healing, it would have destroyed what remained of my family. My h wanted to heal and that was really a big factor in making me wait, giving it all some time. <BR><p>[This message has been edited by cl (edited September 17, 1999).]

Dear CL<P>So glad to see you realized that divorce would not end your pain. I keep hoping my wife will finally realize that too. The best way to heal for both persons from what I have read, is by staing together. Many professionals who have been involved in the divorce business the last 20-40 years are finally realizing that divorce causes more problems then it solves. I beleive there is a starting of a movement to turn around societies acceptance of divorce as the solution to marrital problems. It is just to easy to throw away marriages. Humans are not perfect, they make mistakes. We grow and learn from our biggest mistakes. People do change for the better.

SharoninVA<P>Thank you for your encouragement<BR>The life we built, the children we have and the love we can share means so much to me I still have to hope we can work things out even tho she has decided we are through.<P>Looking deeply at it.. we have had our ups and downs.. but the downs are so familiar to <BR>things described on this site.. that have been overcome thru marriage building techniques.<P>Is it fair for me to want to hold off the separation and divorce she wants?.. to continue pursuing marriage building.. on my own? It is hard to do alone and my hopes are fading.