Sort of topic but sort of not.

I have read several articles that say while women claim they want nice guys the vast majority actually don't get involved with nice guys.

The stories range that nice guys aren't interesting and exciting. And that nice guys are predictable which leads to boredom.

Having been "the nicest guy you'll ever meet" type all my life I find myself wondering about the above. Especially since my wife became involved with a felon, smoker and womenizer.

So deep down ladies do you really want a nice guy or do you need a bad boy that occassionally acts nice?

Here is what DR. Tracy Cabot says about the question of "nice guys".. and I have seen it to be true with men even though they have a tough time admitting it to be so.

Dear Dr. Tracy,
One short but troubling question:

Do you believe that nice guys finish last in terms of finding women?

Thank you very much for your time,

Curious & concerned

Dear Curious and Concerned,
Yes, guys who are too nice often finish last. They don't know how to play the mating game. They're no fun. For a woman, being with them is like pulling the handle on a slot machine and always getting ten coins. You're winning, but it's boring. That's because women today are just as competitive as men. They want a challenge. They crave winning an exciting man. They respect a man who is his own person, able to stand up to them, and never ever willing to be walked all over.
It's human nature -- in order to have the "in love" feeling, there has to be some uncertainty, some wonder, "Does he love me? Does he love me enough? Will he be mine?" Sometimes if a guy is so nice that the wonder is missing.

It's worse than just not getting the girl. If a guy just gives and gives without getting anything back (and nice guys tend to do that), he gets taken advantage of by everyone. A guy who's so nice he can't stop doing things, helping, and giving is setting himself up.

However, nice guys with self respect, who know where to draw the line, do get women. It sounds like you need to read "Why People Love" in my Library.

Good luck

Dr. Tracy

stunned-dad-fast recovering,

it really depends what you mean when you say "Nice Guy".hmmmmmm

I've read that affaires usually get involved with the complete opposite as their spouses.

Once they "wake up" they usually see how great their spouse actually is and they ask themselves what it was that they actually saw in the OP.

I myself surely do want a "Nice guy" that can be "bad" occasionally! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Don't you guys want the same???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

take care
bb

My take on this, and I'm guilty of it in the past, immature women want bad boys, and once we grow up, we're ready for the nice guys.

My husband is a really nice guy, but he's still a "man". He will not allow me to walk on him, and in the beginning of our relationship, we certainly "tested" each other, LOL. But, I'm 40 yrs old now. I've learned ALOT in those years on how relationships work, and I've taken the time to know it's important for my husband to feel like a "man", but he doesn't have to be an a** to act like one.

Sunshine

I think the biggest problem that many 'nice guys' have is setting boundries and having a big enough self esteem to enforce them. Many nice guys allow themselves to be doormats, and that's just not attractive.

Another thing I've seen nice guys do is to agree to do something (whether it's a favor or loaning money) that actually takes away from the family (time or finances). It's in their nature to give, but they don't take a moment to think about themselves and their situation first. If you're the wife, trying to keep a tight budget or who doesn't see enough of your H...nice or not, you're gonna be ticked. So you have to learn to say no, and set personal boundries that aren't always comfortable to follow.

I think there's the age old 'defending your honor' thing that women find attractive. Many of us don't want to marry a man who fights with other people...but yet we'd like to believe we mean enough to our man that he'd stand up for us if need be. Protection. Women expect it from a spouse. Many "nice" guys won't tell their mommas to back off when they start trashing their wives. BIG LB.

I guess I think it's fine to be a nice guy, as long as you have some self confidence, some personal boundries, and a BACK BONE to go along with the personality. It's not enough just to be 'nice'.

Okay I am not talking about a jelly fish type guy with zero backbone.

I am very strong willed. Pigheaded is the word the misses uses. But I am also generous to a fault. I am also the type that rushed to pickup a toddler that has fallen down or help an old lady get her groceries loaded in her trunk if no one from the store is helping her.

I am very soft hearted....big ole softie as my wife calls me.

Its not so much that I give give give. Its more its not my nature to take. Plus I tend to look at the overall good for the marriage first rather than what is in my best interest.

I am hardly a doormat type running around with the puppy dog look.

Indeed when my first met me she thought I was married. Then she thought I was a party animal....I did not party much in college full time student and worked full time. But when I did party I tended to party hard.

If you ever look at what women want in the personals they all want someone that will respect them, treat them like a lady, and so on.

SDFR:
I am sooooo glad you started this thread. When I was young I was kind of wild. I had a lot better luck with women then. After a long marriage that ended in divorce, I remarried and tried hard to be a model husband. Divorce was so painful that I never wanted to go through another. I unwittingly became a door mat and lost out to an alcoholic, black sheep type.

I won't let it happen again, but I'll have to guard against going too far in the other direction. Life shouldn't be this hard.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Life shouldn't be this hard.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Really? Can I ask you...have you learned more from the things that were hard, or from the things that were easy?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hope4future:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Life shouldn't be this hard.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Really? Can I ask you...have you learned more from the things that were hard, or from the things that were easy?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just wishful thinking on my part. The hard lessons definately make the biggest impressions, but sometimes they do some damage.

Why do the villains in the movies have all the energy and interest and wildness? Why does Mephistopheles always steal the show?

It's not because they're "bad," per se, it's because they have...well...energy and interest and wildness and a certain amount of unpredictability. They hold more dramatic interest.

I think women sometimes want those things -- but they don't want the flip side. I've known some wife-beater types who are very, very intense and flattering and attentive during courtship. Those things are appealing, and women want them -- they often don't realize that they are attached to men who are abusive and unbalanced.

Give me a loyal guy who can pay the bills anytime!

much of this is about "project" relationships...this guy is has "big" problems, but I am the woman who he will change for, and boy he must really love me if he will change...yada yada yada.

The point is, women who choose "bad" boys are revealing themselves as poor marriage material. At the very least they have poor discernment skills, but even worse they have an immature understanding of healthy relationships...in itself a big red flag.

So my answer is this.... Yes, women do want nice guys (assuming the nice guy is acting appropriately male), and dysfunctional women want bad boys (and vice versa)....something about water seeking its own level comes to mind. By all acounts your wife has some serious dysfunctionality, which accounts for her poor choice of this om to have a relationship with, and is not reflection on you. Now that might make you wonder why she chose you in the first place (since you are a nice guy), that's easy, she recognized a healthy choice, and grabbed it much like one would a potential rescuer in the water...the trick then is for the rescuer not to drown with the victim, but drag em to shore and save them, despite their efforts to pull you down.....but if push comes to shove, and you are gonna drown, you have to let them go and experience the consequences of their own behaviour, regardless of how they got there.

<small>[ October 14, 2003, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: sufdb ]</small>

You know my therapist made a very simple observation. She cited a study where volunteers were monitored for heart rate, pulse, body temp etc much like you would a person taking a polygraph.

The only sad two words--word X and word Y-- to each volunteer and measured their reactions.

Far and away the largest measurable changes physicologically came after hearing the word X. Pulse rate excellerated, pupils changed, breathing patterns to a faster pace and some even perspired.

While word Y resulted in virtually no changes. Those that had changes were changes reflecting reduced physiological signs related to stress.

The most powerful word in terms of reactions--word X was The Devil .

And the one with the fewest changes physiologically was God .

Pretty sad and telling study that we tend to have a greater emotional reaction to evil than good.

That's because good is usually portrayed as inert and boring. It's not.

Women want real men. If yo want to know what a real man is like and how to get there from where you are, read "Wild at Heart", by Eldridge. Every woman should read this, too, at least if she is married or has a son. I am a non-traditional guy, in a lot of ways, so thought that some mens book would probably be filled with stupid stereotypes. Instead, I found myself reading along and saying "Yeah!" under my breath as I read. Best book I've read since SAA.

SD,

I have to agree with BB.....

Want a good man who occasionally will act "bad."

The unpredictability, the continuous effort to occasionally "spice up" the relationship keeps the feelings new....keeps the adrenaline flowing....keeps the excitement in the R.

As for the study you mentioned, in my undergrad years, we also did a similar study....only we did it with a metronome and subjects who were shown slides of "average" looking people. What we found was that when we sped up the speed of the metronome, people reported an increase in feeling of "excitement."

Not really related to your story (although fear does increase heart rate, adrenaline, etc - could explain the study), I thought it was interesting that an outside source could so easily influence the feelings....

I like nice guys....

The nice guys I would be interested in would be involved with bad girls and would let them dictate everything -- it can go both ways. I used to wonder why a "nice" guy would pick a girl who would treat him that way and why a "nice" girl would pick a "bad" guy.

I like nice guys who like to have fun -- not do "bad" things. Nice guys who like to let loose, who like to go to amusement parks and act like a kid. Nice guys who will act all goofy when around kids and get on their level without having to worry about how it "looks" to other adults.

i haven't read this entire thread-

but being an expert in female studies ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> )

yes- women do want nice guys, especially when they want to settle down.

i dated some jerks, but my H is a real nice guy.

i wouldn't settle for anything less, now.

as a side note: in my younger years, i was a total &^%$# to guys- i could just rip 'em apart. in fact, i used to beat the boys up on the playground.

towards the end of my first degree (even though i had some great boyfriends)- i decided that i needed to "chill" and be more considerate to the male gender-

i don't know what happenned- but as soon as i started being "nice" to guys, it seemed as if just "losers" were attracted to me: waiters who thought that they were mafia "rock" stars; college drop-outs lying about their real job (another waiter); physicists into sex magic; teenage alcoholics lying about their age (and recovery- he was legal, though)... it seemed like i couldn't find a "normal" "nice" guy to save my life...

the theory was that if i was "nice" then i'd get a "nice" guy... oops!

anyway- i went from being a &^%$# to a sucker and then balancing myself out...

and found a nice man.

Hey all. I'm another long time reader and finally decided I had to jump in on this one. This is my life, too. Married to a reliable guy, predictable, vanilla. We are in the middle of trying to save our marriage and we are continually stuck on this issue. He doesn't understand why vanilla isn't "enough" for me. I am feeling guilty for not feeling more than a brotherly love for H- afterall he is a "good" guy. I am stepping out for appt. but will be back later. Thanks for listening. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi ncgal. Was your H. vanilla when you married him? I'm suspecting that he hasn't changed. What changed in you to make vanilla not enough?

Susan <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ October 15, 2003, 08:35 AM: Message edited by: Susan ]</small>