It has taken me about 2 years to get this head of mine on straight and get out of the fog.
I came very close to getting back with H but when it came dowm to it I was very afraid.
I just could not go through with it.
I have made some personal decisions in my life that effect the OM & the H.
I cut ties with OM and only allow him access to his son. I have also refused to tolerate being interogated by H anymore.
I have made a nasty bed and I have laid in it long enough.
I am paying a very high price right now for not giving H the play by play on mylife.
I am only allowed limited access to my children and everything is on his terms.
He has gotten nasty and sent me away crying.
I cant really say much.
When I do, he comes back with well now you know how I have felt for so long.
How do I deal with this.
I know that he is going to be brutal now.
I don't mind what he does to me, its just that he is using the boys to do it.
Help

lucidity,

What do you want to accomplish? Better relationship (friendhip)with your husband that will allow you to see your boys? Try to work on your marriage and reestablishing your family? Getting support for the hard times ahead? Can you be more specific? I'm sorry you're hurting.

I should not be looking at whether he should allow or not allow me to see my chidlren.
At this point I do not see us being friends at all.
I just want the courts to decide and then I can go from there.
I dont care to really ever speak to him again.
I only want to be able to see and repair my relationship with my children.
I know my Role in all of this and H with time will know his.

lucidity:

I'm sorry nothing fundamental has changed in your sitch in the 2-4 years all this has been going on.

I 2nd star's 2uestion: What do you want? What do you want for YOU, specifically?

You've certainly learned that you can't expect your H 2 change or stop blaming you for the past, you can only help yourself. You shouldn't be expected 2 take that abuse, either. And I'll say that 2 H2Y's "face" if he posts on here (though I haven't seen him in a long time). He's doing a very poor job of MBing you, regardless of what you may or may not have "done" 2 him.

It's unrealistic for him 2 expect you 2 cut the OM out of his own child's life. If the OM wants that, then it might simplify your own life, but I gather that's not the case. Even then, H2Y has 2 accept the OC AND let you spend time with your own sons. He can't use them as a weapon 2 hurt you. It hurts them, 2.

Like I suggested a while back, you should post on the pregnancy/child board. There are a number of people there that are in si2ations similar 2 yours. There ARE amicable solutions 2 this dillemna. Don't spend the rest of your life living this way.

best,
-2long

<small>[ December 03, 2003, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

I just want this to stop.
I want to see my children again.
I want to move on past my guilt.
If I want to see my sons my H tells me I have to trade him with the OM son.
I know that I will have so much explaining to do to my children and I have paid a very high price for what i have done.
I just want him to let me see my children at this point and quit reminding me of what I have done and why I can't see them.
How do I deal with that when he continually throws it in my face.
Yes, I am guilty of it all.
It is as if I he is going to make me pay now.
How do I handle that part.
Because it always involves my boys.

lucidity:

"I want to see my children again."

You SHOULD be able 2 see your children!

"I want to move on past my guilt."

That is a decision only YOU can make. Nobody can make you feel guilty without your consent.

"If I want to see my sons my H tells me I have to trade him with the OM son."

Huh? Are we talking hostages here? Sorry, that wasn't funny.

"I know that I will have so much explaining to do to my children and I have paid a very high price for what i have done."

Yes, perhaps you have. But if you have PAID, you should not be PAYING.

"I just want him to let me see my children at this point and quit reminding me of what I have done and why I can't see them."

So do I! I can't see any reason you and he shouldn't be able 2 negotiate an agreement, but maybe the courts will have 2 decide.

"How do I deal with that when he continually throws it in my face."

I guess the only thing I can say is that you have 2 be strong. You need 2 be secure yourself in order 2 "deal". You should not let the things he says affect your personal healing.

"Yes, I am guilty of it all."

But it is the PAST. You and H2Y cannot CHANGE THE PAST. You can learn from it, but you should not dwell on it. You don't live in the FUTURE, either. You live in the NOW. LET GO of the past. Let H2Y figure out how 2 let go of it on his own.

"It is as if I he is going to make me pay now."

Maybe it is. He didn't learn anything here, if that's what he's doing.

"How do I handle that part."

You 'handle it' by not playing the game.

"Because it always involves my boys."

This makes it hard 2 work around this silly, destructive drama. Unless H2Y can help you find an agreeable solution, you're going 2 have 2 let the courts make it for you.

best,
-2long

I just want the courts to decide and then I can go from there.

Are these wheels in motion..
are you regardless of your past behaviors documenting all attempts that you make to see your children.
are you documenting all times it doesn't pan out do to his interventions...

record phone calls that are nasty and accusatory..
record interactions...

do you have a lawyer??

I have little interest in the insane behaviors of your husband...
regardless of what he does...
continue to attempt to see the children..

you have legal rights....

much strength to you..
ark

<small>[ December 03, 2003, 07:30 PM: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</small>

Originally posted by lucidity:


I just want this to stop.

You want reality to cease?

I want to see my children again.

Then take steps to make that a reality


I want to move on past my guilt.

Then take steps to make that happen.


If I want to see my sons my H tells me I have to trade him with the OM son.

What are you talking about? I suspect what you are saying is that your XH does not want his boys spending time with OM's child... is this what you are saying? Are you saying XH wants to protect his sons from contact with OM's son?


I know that I will have so much explaining to do to my children and I have paid a very high price for what i have done.

Yes, your consequences have been parallel to your decisions in life. That's true. I suspect your "price" is not as high as your children have paid.


I just want him to let me see my children at this point and quit reminding me of what I have done and why I can't see them.

Then take steps to make this a reality.


How do I deal with that when he continually throws it in my face.

Take steps through an attorney.Don't deal with XH.

Yes, I am guilty of it all.

Know what, you are throwing out the wrong bait if you want to "catch" the big fish of seeing your children!!! Stop playing victim here.... and start making strong and responsible choices. Repeating your "guilt" is not productive for you to reach your goal. Cut it out. This victim stance is pointless.


It is as if I he is going to make me pay now.

More victim posture. Stop. Think of something productive and positive to try.


How do I handle that part.
Because it always involves my boys.

Start with making a change in your attitude.

What is your goal? To get to co-parent your boys, correct?

Then change something in your life that moves you in that direction.

Pep

<small>[ December 03, 2003, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Originally posted by lucidity:
I am only allowed limited access to my children and everything is on his terms.

So you DO have visitation, correct?

Then make the most of your time with them.

Take steps to increase your access.

Do the best you can with what you've got.

lucidity:

I know of your story, only from H2Y's perspective. Although I have not corresponded with him for many many months now, one thing I do know, is that he has been fighting to have you back in his life for a VERY long time.

The OM's son... you don't really know for sure who the father is, last I knew. I DO know, that H2Y has taken him on as his own. H2Y was on the birth certificate.. is he still? I believe that the reason he wants to spend time with the OC, is b/c he loves him dearly, and misses him. And one on one time between them would be easiest if done while you are visiting with the other 2 boys.

According to H2Y AND yourself, your R with OM has been an abusive one. Your "victim" stance has all to do with that (and perhaps from other events in your past). Your self esteem has been shot down to a point where you feel as though it is irrepairable. I have been there too. But I'm back out again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

What helped me was to get counselling from local women's centres. I'm sure you can find some, and if money is tight, I know that larger cities offer these kinds of services for free.

It is not right that H2Y LB you as he is. However, last I knew, he was officially out of plan A. After what? 4 years of plan A? Well, he had enough. He wasn't ready to do something different for a long time.

Is he in Plan B now? Is that why he may be curt with you? If he is in plan B, you should work on fulfilling his needs that he states in his letter. If he isn't in plan B.. I can give you a hint... he's practiced them on here. Try and find them in searches, and they will give you more than enough information to know what he needs you to do.

But then there's the question of, "do you want to do those things to repair your M?". You won't really know until you try.

I suggest that you be in plan A yourself lucidity. Work on YOU and fulfil H2Y's EN's as best you can, and then work at it even harder. It's much easier if you give yourself a timeline, let's say, 6 months... or even less. It can always be changed if necessary for you. Nothing is set in stone.

I often wonder about you both, and I'm sorry to hear that things are still very difficult. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Take care,
Karen

<strong>Lucity: It has taken me about 2 years to get this head of mine on straight and get out of the fog.</strong>

Orchid: I am glad to hear this. Recovery can start now.
It will be a long and hard road, maybe twice as long as your family has suffered but there is hope.


<strong>Lucity: I have made a nasty bed and I have laid in it long enough.</strong>

Orchid: Yes you have but now you are choosing to get up and move forward. This is good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<strong>Lucity: I am paying a very high price right now for not giving H the play by play on mylife. </strong>

Orchid: Your paying the high price is at the beginning stages. Don't give up but don't expect a clean slate. This is something you got yourself into and you are the one who can get yourself out. Help may not always be readily available but you need to keep a positive outlook. I don't understand what you mean by 'play by play'. I can tell you that as a BS I wanted to know what my H did out there without his family. A bit of a stranger is what came back. If your choice NOT to give your H what is reasonable then the result is also your choice.

If I am not understanding you correctly, please clarify.

<strong>Lucity: I am only allowed limited access to my children and everything is on his terms. </strong>

Orchid: At this time since you are just now getting back your powers of reason, is this such a bad thing? Usually persons in rehab are allowed to return back to their normal life in stages to help all adjust better. Wouldn't that be better for you and the children?

<strong>He has gotten nasty and sent me away crying.
I cant really say much.
When I do, he comes back with well now you know how I have felt for so long.
How do I deal with this.
I know that he is going to be brutal now.
I don't mind what he does to me, its just that he is using the boys to do it. </strong>

Orchid: If the crying is helping you see how you really made him feel all these years, then consider it a source of healing. You need to cry and feel the remorse. Then you will learn how to improve and show your worth.

You want to show more by healthy actions then say too much. In the past most BS hear a lot of crap from the WS. After many of us start to accept that the WS wlll not change, to hear the WS talk of changing can sound like a cruel joke. I know this sounds mean but you have to realize that for years, many a BS have been jerked around and now they are not very trusting souls. What can you do you help him trust you again?

When he reminds you of this is how you made me feel, I must say L, that I used to tell him to feel that way. I have not spoken to him for a long time (many months) and even now I remind my H of how he hurt our family. You are going to realize this is part of how both of you need to heal.

You feel he is using the children to hurt you? Your children are already hurt. He has been taking care of them up to now right? You are not worried he will abandon or hurt them right?

Make sure you are focused on their needs. While they do need their mom and do want you back, it is important that you can come back with positive assurance that your old ways will not come back. They have seen many broken promises so now you have to convince them and your H that you mean what you say.

That will take time. You need to cultivate patience. Remember your recovery is in the beginning stages. Don't be afraid to admit when your H is right about things from the past. Admit that your foggy days were full of bad decisions and then say that was then, this is now. Step away and quietly show you are becoming a better person.

Even while you were in the fog, you had to recognize when your H was doing good. Now do the same so he will have no choice but to admit that you are serious about moving forward with a better life.

Are my words hard to take? Probably but if you realize they are meant for your well being, then I know you will benefit by my words and all who care for both you and your H.

<strong>Lucity: Help </strong>

Orchild: I hope I did.

Hugz,
L.

Topie, H2Y hasn't posted here since his own cheating on his marriage vows was exposed. He's in a fog right now, and acting self-righteously about it all.

I very much doubt his claims to doing a "Plan A" for years, as he, himself revealed for a short time before he disappeared from the boards that all was not the way he painted it.

Lucidity, I've recommended this book to others quite frequently. It's called "EXCUSE ME: Your Life Is Waiting". It's about being totally responsible for EVERYTHING in your life that you are experiencing.

Nothing will change in your life as long as you ask someone else to do it for you. Your husband revealed his true colors several months ago. He won't be the one to do the necessary changes.

It must be you. Right now, guilt is irrelevant. I know you don't have a lot of money for a lawyer. That hasn't stopped a committed mother. There are shelters who will counsel you and link you up with discounted or free legal help for your situation.

So if you truly want a new reality, take the necessary steps. If you want to complain that your husband is mean and spiteful - well, I think we've known that for a few months now. He isn't likely to change any time soon.

For anyone who's truly interested, and I'd like to think it's because you want to help lucidity and H2Y, and PLEASE be careful with your assumptions and judgements.... but I wanted to clarify WHY he has not been posting.... for several reasons: he has been without online access for quite sometime, he is busy working and taking care of the boys and trying to move forward with his life while still holding some hope for his marriage, and the MAIN reason (which some of you may remember) is to give lucidity space to seek help and speak her mind on MB without the BS/WS friction, or without worrying about H2Y constantly looking over her shoulder, interjecting, arguing, or otherwise trying to discount her opinions and feelings.

lucidity, you have been given some great advice here. And there is some wonderful resources on the web-site here. I love what Orchid said about the boys needing love and consistency MOST of all. Their little hearts are fragile. Be sure you are thinking of their safety and long-term stability. If H2Y is not trusting you, then he may need to see more consistency and cooperation from you. If you are not satisfied with that, then, as everyone here said, find out if the courts may decide differently.

H2Y has invested nearly 5 years in developing a safe and stable home for them alone, and he has loved you and hoped to have you back in his arms for those years. His hope for you returning is fading, but the safe and stable home is being built. You say your fog "has finally cleared". That's NOT very safe for H2Y and the boys to venture into without caution. Work with him with patience and understanding. Why can't you visit the boys under his terms? His concerns about the OM's violence are valid enough for caution and visitation conditions that he is comfortable with.

take care lucidity. I hope all the best.

I AM SO SORRY FAITH1.
I TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH YOU.
H2Y HAS NOT SPENT THE LAST 5 YEARS WANTING TO WORK THIS OUT.
HE HAD AN AFFAIR WITH A WOMAN IN THE BEGINNING.
WE TALKED ABOUT MOVING AWAY AND STARTING OVER.
WE WERE TOGETHER FOR ABOUT A MONTH AND SERIOUSLY TALKING ABOUT MOVING IN BACK TOGETHER WHEN I FOUND EMAILS THAT HE HAD WRITTEN TO ANOTHER WOMAN FROM MARRIAGE BUILDERS.
THEY WERE SEXUALLY EXPLICIT AND FULL OF LIES ABOUT HOW I NEVER COOKED FOR HIM, HOW I NEVER DID THE RECREATIONAL COMPANIONSHIP THING WITH HIM.
HE COULD NOT WAIT TO SEE HER AND GO FISHING. SHE SEEMED TO BE A GOOD COOK AND HE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE NICE TO LET HER COOK UP THE FISH.
MAYBE HE WOULD MOVE CLOSE TO HER IF SHE GAVE HIM A REASON. ALL THE WHILE SAYING THAT HE WAS HOLDING ON TO ME COMING BACK. THE PICTURES OF WOMAN ON THE WALLS OF HIS BEDROOM.
I AM SORRY THAT DOES NOT SOUND LIKE A MAN WANTING TO GET BACK TOGETHER.
I HAVE BEEN LIED TO AS WELL.
WHY IS IT THAT I AM THE ONE WHO ADMITS WRONG DOING IN ALL OF THIS.
WHY, WHEN CONFRONTED WITH HIS BEHAVIOR IT GETS BRUSHED UNDER THE RUG.

<small>[ December 05, 2003, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: lucidity ]</small>

Lucidity,

Let's step back and take a look at it from another angle.

1. You were the Ws, right?
2. You feel as if you are now the BS?

If so, what do you think you should do? Do you understand what plan A is? Can you do it? If so, for how long?

Remember there is no guarantees that the BS will always remain faithful. The WS or xws can't expect all to wait for them. Sometimes the BS is able to wait and other times they can't or they travel a similar WS path and pain is now felt both ways.

Regardless of what H2Y does, you can focus on you. You are the one who can control your actions and reactions. If you choose to show a good example to your H and your children, it will pay off in the end.

The children s/b with the one who can provide stability. It w/b better if both parents can provide that for the children.

How can you provide that or at least start to provide it for all your children?

Just some questions to help you refocus and heal.

Hugz,
L.

<small>[ December 06, 2003, 02:38 AM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

I am amazed that you continue to hurt me. It's unbelievable.

Do you want your marriage or not?

As long as you have continued contact with the OM, says to me... that you do NOT want your marriage.

I am amazed that you continue to hurt me. It's unbelievable.

Do you want your marriage or not?

As long as you have continued contact with the OM, says to me... that you do NOT want your marriage.

Posted with both accounts so any of you who don't know the story can go back and verify its me.

l,

So, H2Y, had an A first.

I assume you paid him back IN FULL, by having your own A and OC.

In most states if you are legally married, your H is the father, regardless.

Can you let H2Y be the father, regardless? om has no rights if you are legally married.

There can be no recovery, according to MB and H2Y if there is continued contact.

Can you let H2Y be father to your 3rd child, regardless? Is H2Y willing to be a father to OC?

If this is possible, a NC letter is in order, if you really want your marriage.

I see you are remorseful, and perhaps you want your marriage. However, what I see, from both of your posts, is that H2Y needs no contact with om.

Can you deal with this? And whose name is on that birth certificate?

You owe nothing to om, only to BS if you really want reconciliation and a marriage with H2Y.

Just trying to give you all another pov. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Love in Christ,
Miss M

<small>[ December 08, 2003, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: Miss M ]</small>