Sarie

I have read your latest post and again, it makes me feel sick to the core. I have tried to be open and honest with you - I was the one who had the A. I know how you feel "in love". I also know how devasting the consquences of As are.

Please forgive me, if I ramble a bit, but the last few days something very major has happened in my life.

I have a friend - my dearest, closest friend - supposedly. At the time of my A, she was involved in an A. I encouraged her, I admit that. We encouraged each other. We both knew how each other felt, and it was nothing really to do with our husbands. How often she would say to me "I adore my husband".

Me, well I came out of the fog. A few months ago, I wrote a post about "A friend in need?". I wish I could put a link to it, but I don't know how to do that. Maybe someone more IT literate could help out.

In short, to help with the background, she was going off the rails. After her first A, she ended up in bed (although supposedly nothing happened) with one of her H's best friends. She went away on a trip recently, and met a man who "is going to marry me and has named our babies". I don't know which is worse.

This is the brief history. I came here asking for help. How could I help her? What could I do? We all make mistakes and in watching her, I realised I was watching myself 18 months ago pressing that self destruct button. We had a big chat, we both cryed, and I truly believed she had turned a corner.

Then in the last 4/5 weeks, her behaviour started to get more eratic. I didn't know what was going on. She said she wasn't in touch with OM1. But something was happening. She was creating havoc between me and my BF. Every single time me and BF had words it was about her. I kept trying to warn BF that I couldn't be sure about what was driving her, what was motivating her and that she was scaring me. BF thought I was over-reacting, even once when her H told her that she had been so rude to me that she owed me a huge apology.

Well, on Sunday night, the truth came out. Last week was her birthday, and she created another argument between me and BF (well it started with her and went on). My and BF split up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> And within that week, it transpires she is having another A with OM3 (or is it 4) who is BF's best friend who has been staying with him. Not only that, my friend's H has entertained OM3 (for the sake of arguments) in their home, in their holiday cottage and said on her birthday "I like OM3, I like him a lot, he's a great guy". Little did he know OM3 is sh***ing his W.

As for me and friend, if she doesn't tell her H (which she has said she will, because too many people found her with OM3, including BF and a couple of others), I will. I will no longer stand by and watch her destroy this man. He of course, in her mind, has done nothing wrong. It is all about her.

As for me and BF, well, I hoped that with a little space and time we would be able to get back together. I am not so sure now that my supposed friend may have blown that completely. Her destruction is all encompassing. Many people here warned me to stand back, write her a loving Plan B letter of types, stay away. I didn't, and I watched her create all this havoc, and poor BF just thought she was being fun although in his own words "I don't trust her". I kept trying to explain that I knew something wasn't right.

So Sarie, when you "get over" your OM, because eventually you will have to, because his lady love will be providing for him and will not like your friendship, and your H has done nothing wrong, because it is all your fault, and you are involved with OM2, but someone finds out and then you have to face your H, your family etc. what then?

Forgive this long ramble, but you are playing a dangerous game. I have had this conversation with my friend who now faces the truth (possibly, but she may try and worm her way out of it).

You have no clue Sarie. Your ramblings about love and it not being your H are just that.... ramblings. My friend would say the same "I adore my H, he's a lovely man, it's not his fault, it's mine". Does that make her behaviour right or acceptable?

Sarie, please think about this.

Lisa

EDITED TO SAY: Sarie, sorry, I should tell you this too. BF's friend has cut his trip short and gone home early. BF is not speaking to either my friend or her H (they were friends with him before we went out). BF can't even speak to me. He mailed me to say that he couldn't even talk to me there was too much C**p going on - roughly translated means - you were right Lisa, and maybe I could have stopped this. Me and friend are barely speaking, and I don't think we can repair the damage. And the worst of all this - her poor H, who BTW has done nothing wrong......

<small>[ December 17, 2003, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: Lisa in London ]</small>

Lisa that was an excellent post and I'm sorry that your friend's toxic behavior caused you and your BF to breakup. I truly hope that you and him can repair the damage caused by your 'friend' and that her H finds out the truth regarding his W's affairs so he can make wise decisions about his future.

Here's the link to your thread titled A friend in need? Update for you all . I hope Sarie decides to read it.

LIL:

YOu can search by hitting the "search" button, and selecting "by subject only". Here it is, Sarie:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=025324#000000

-2long

2MCM beat me 2 it! Not only that, HE knows how 2 create a link without all those squiggles!

ol' 2long doesn't!

-ol' 2long

Ok,

Lesson time the search function I think has been explained if you don't want the whole address to show up it is easy you type {url=the address such as 2L has} Put any name you want {/url}. Now the trick is that you don't use {}, but rather the square brackets []. If I had used square brackets it would have tried to make a bookmark.

As for the address, do a search with the search function in the area you feel the post is. Use a keyword, or the ID # of the poster. When you find the post highlight the address at the top of your brower and copy it. Paste into the part after url=

You then have it.

I hope she listens to you Lisa.

JL

Thank you techies for your input!!!! We learn something new every day <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I am hoping that Sarie may come over here for some diaglogue with me.

As to my friend, she called this morning, but I could not talk to her as I was going out. I have decided to send her an e-mail cutting contact until she does the right thing - either come clean and DV her H, or come clean and see if he is willing to re-build. If she does not tell him, I then feel I will have no option but to do so. It pains me greatly.

As to BF (or perhaps I should say XBF), he did send me another mail telling me how upset he is. I think he needs time to process what he did or didn't do in terms of listening to me, and then work through for himself the implications of all this. I do hope that in the new year we may have a chance to at least speak again and be friends at the very least. He is a man of integrity and honesty, and I know he feels guilty and ashamed that something like this could take place under his roof. I think he feels partly responsible....

I will keep you posted of anything that happens, but TMCM you are right - she isn't a friend, and her behaviour is very toxic.


Lisa

Well, I wanted to let you know that I decided I had to let my friend go.

I wrote her an e-mail, telling her everyting I had said before. I told her how it pained me to do it but that I couldn't stand by anymore and watch her destruct herself and her H. I also told her that I believed she had been a damaging influence between me and BF. I told her lots more things, but I asked that she respect that I could no longer be in touch with her. I also said that if and when she did the right thing, I would do everything I could to support her if she wanted.

I don't think she will reply, nor do I think I will probably see her again. I also feel deep in my heart that if she will be trying to get out of telling her H, and somehow that I will have no choice but to do that in the future.

I feel very sad that it has come to this, but I know that I can't deal with her anymore when she continues on this path. I will miss her - she has been someone who has in the past been incredibly supportive and wonderful to me, but her recent behaviour shades all that because I just don't trust or respect her right now.

I hope one day she will come to understand that I have done this only because I care about her and her wellbeing.

Please tell me I did the right thing. Tell me also, should I tell her H in the new year if she hasn't?

Lisa

Lisa,

I can understand why you would not want this person for a friend anymore; and yet I know how hard it must be to walk away from the good memories you have of past times w/ her.

Let me ask you this: was her H your friend first, or did you only know her H through her?

If it is the latter, I think you should stay out of it. I don't think it would be appropriate. Even though she has proven to not be a loyal person, there is no reason for you to do the same and betray your past friendship with her.

If you had a relationship firstly through her husband, that is different and then your initial loyalty should be to him.

Just my opinion, which may not jive with marriage builder philosophy...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by justexhausted:

If it is the latter, I think you should stay out of it. I don't think it would be appropriate. Even though she has proven to not be a loyal person, there is no reason for you to do the same and betray your past friendship with her.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lisa no longer ows any loyalty to her former friend, especially since she was instrumental in the breakup of Lisa's relationship with her BF. Besides Lisa is giving her former friend the opportunity to come clean with her H and possibly save her marriage. Her H does not deserve to be the victim of a conspiracy of silence all because of some warped sense of loyalty to his WW.

Aaaaah CM, good point - but I guess I do still feel a warped sense of loyalty. At times, when I was at my very lowest post d-day, she never wavered, she always stood by me. I guess I feel that you never left me alone, you always stood by me - you, JL, SS, Nick, Neil, Litchfield, Pepper, Kily, Topie, Jen (I can never remember everyone, because there have truly been so very many wonderful friends here). Shouldn't I show a little of the same compassion? I guess she first needs to come round.

Just Exhausted - how are you? Thank you for your comments. I do actually hope that something may be moving/changing and that she will take responsibility for herself. I had a very sad and kind response to my message. I thought she would be angry, but there was no anger - just sadness. She said that she was working on things through this difficult time and understood my need to be parted. I think (oh I hope), that she has started talking to her H.

Thank you all. I still hope Sarie might pop in here for a chat, but hey!!!

Lisa

Hi Lisa.
I have been reading what you have taken the time to write concerning my situation and I thank you. (Just Learning & others also)

Yesterday was busy as I went to my 11 year old granddaughter's Christmas school concert....My life goes on as normal...My husband and I are babysitting our other daughter's little girls on Sat. night.

I just have this SECRET inside me!

The thing about the OM is he has been such a good friend for 10 years; yes, he gave me an emotional & a sexual fulfillment...Recently, he had hernia surgery and has been in great pain for 2 weeks, I am waiting for an e-mail; I am concerned about how he is.
How do I stop caring?
NO CONTACT will NOT stop the love and caring for him.

We, the OM and I have been totally honest with one another; even though I have NOT been honest with my husband.

From the first time he met this old classmate (they had went to school together until the were 11 years old and then re-met 50 years later at a class reunion)

He told me how they had so much in common, got along good, good match, good chemestry, told me about the first time they had sex, that she is a wonderful loving lady, good companion, he liked her children, had a good sense of well-being that since he couldn't have me as his wife, (I refused to divorce and be with him) that now he would not have to spend the rest of his life alone.

He is 61 (her also) and had dedicated his life to caring for his elderly mother. When she went to the nursing home, he felt really alone...It is good he has this woman, I have ALWAYS had a full life with my husband and family!
So now I can feel what he has had to feel!

He is not over me either!
Just because he knew it was time to move on with his life with someone else has not diminished his love for me.
(We will be apart for the rest of our lives but not in our hearts!)
He always said I was his 'angel' that gave him a reason to live when he was so sick & dying when we met.
I was!
Our love for one another was/is REAL!

So now, I am trying to fill this void in my heart without the daily conversations and caring for me that he gave! (He always needed me and now his new lady is fulfilling that need for him.)
(I read in the note to Sally by SonofWF, (good message) that it is an 'emotional rush', what we get from the OP)

My feelings for my husband are SEPERATE from my feelings for the OM...Even if my husband knew about my affair and gave me all he could, it could not be enough because I would still yearn for the OM, he was/is a unique special friend.

Lisa, how did you get over your OM? Do you ever yearn to hear his voice and know how he is doing with his life? Is he married? Did you truly have love for him? Has he ever tried to contact you since you started the NO CONTACT?

It is almost like losing contact with one of my children to lose his friendship! Did you feel that way?
Sincerely, Sarah

<small>[ December 18, 2003, 06:57 AM: Message edited by: Sarie ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Sarie:
<strong>

I just have this SECRET inside me!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would suggest that while your husband doesn't know, your "Secret" has a huge effect on everything you do. It's not that easy.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Sarie:
<strong>

The thing about the OM is he has been such a good friend for 10 years; yes, he gave me an emotional & a sexual fulfillment...!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Good friends" do not request you to do things that would/could destroy the person your "supposed" to love. User's do that. PREDATORS do that. When will you see him for what he is?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Sarie:
<strong>My feelings for my husband are SEPERATE from my feelings for the OM...Even if my husband knew about my affair and gave me all he could, it could not be enough because I would still yearn for the OM, he was/is a unique special friend.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Does your husband not deserve even a shred of dignity here? Does he not deserve to know that he's just not good enough for you?

Sarah,
You wrote:
"Even if my husband knew about my affair and gave me all he could, it could not be enough because I would still yearn for the OM, he was/is a unique special friend."

You HAVE to start making the effort. I know how you feel....i was pretty crazy about OM too...but i am beginning to harden my heart just a little. Like Mortimer said....if he was a true friend, he wouldn't have involved you in something that is causing you so much pain. You will forget him to some extent...but only when you stop all contact with him--and start laying it on thick with your husband. Please try! You have to be miserable with things the way they are. Diane

Secrets exposed have a way of showering ice water on warm and fond feelings for that secret - it exposes it for the poisonous, toxic snake that you've held close to your heart - you are still in a fantasy fog with a man who cheats and steals. But realize the snake will bite you eventually. It's up to you whether it inflicts a mortal wound on you.

But by holding it close, you have also chosen your husband to be wounded - and you DON'T get to choose if the wound is fatal or not. It will bite - may have already bitten and he's dying a slow death knowing that his sweetheart has been lying to him.

Think about that! The longer you hold it, the more bites it gets in against you and your husband.

Sarie

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have ALWAYS had a full life with my husband and family!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is a lie, how could you have a full life when you were screwing the OM. There is no full life with someone when you invested your time, emotions and body to someone else.

Sure your feelings are seperate, you have no love, no caring and no respect for your H. NO feelings whatsoever.

What you need to do is write the OM an NC letter, and have no contact.

He never was your friend, but you can't or won't see that. He played you, and continues to do so.

So what if he had a hernia, it really isn't any of your business anymore, you should consider your H. After all he is the only victem in your M. Just keep stabbing your H in the back. Doesn't it make you feel real good doing that to someone. Nice living a lie isn't it.

I truly hope that your H will find some happiness, I doubt he can or ever will get it from you. Your to wrapped up in perserving your petty fantasy to actually try to redeem your M.

A full life, what a crock of sh@t.

[Originally posted by Sarie:


We, the OM and I have been totally honest with one another; even though I have NOT been honest with my husband.

Here's a thought .... does OM tell his new wife-to-be about his decade of infidelity with a MW?

I'll bet he does not. He lacks the integrity to be honest. What a snake.

Pep

No, Pepper, he hasn't told her and he isn't going to tell her.
What we had was not rotten but beautiful.

That statement will make you VERY angry and sick at me for saying it!
The way I see it, I don't see how a WS can EVER be honest with their mates when the reaction is what you are writing me!

The OM called me today...We talked about 'no contact' but decided to make contact very little and let our love affair die a natural death instead of going no contact against our will; which may make us crazier for one another than if we part a little slower.

I told him it would be best to get rid of one another in our minds; he said it is absolutely impossible because we are a part of one another's hearts and have been for many many years...That is true!

We could pretend not to care for one another, but the fact remains that we still love and care very much for one another.

We both agree and have accepted that we will never be alone together again; it would be too hard, we have come too far, to go back to that.
(Like the addiction story of taking another hit of drugs would put as back at square one of withdrawal.)

He told me that he is happy with his new friend, she has been a wonderful partner YET for the rest of his life he will love and want me, all the time knowing we can NEVER BE TOGETHER; he HAD to move on with his life and not stay alone as he is growing older.

We are parting with NO animosity towards one another; just good memories of our wonderful friendship.

I know this makes everyone that reads this upset with me , for being so dishonest with my husband.
If I were reading it coming from someone else, I would be upset with me also.

If your spouse, though, shares feelings with you such as I just did about my OM, don't be like Pepper and tell them how bad they are for feeling the way they do, just try to be loving and understanding and hope in TIME, the feelings for the other person will diminish.
Otherwise they will tell you NOTHING!
Love, Sarah

<small>[ December 18, 2003, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: Sarie ]</small>

Originally posted by Sarie:


We could pretend not to care for one another, but the fact remains that we still love and care very much for one another.

I am certain you care very much for each other. That is a fact.

You lack the integrity to be honest, and so does OM.

That too is a fact.

Pep

Originally posted by Sarie:
No, Pepper, he hasn't told her and he isn't going to tell her.

Because he is a dishonest man.

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just have this SECRET inside me!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sarie:
Why does this secret bother you?