joey,

what about your role in the demise of the marriage....

quit focusing on your wife...
and what put it back on you...

where do you fit in to this picture...

and I am only asking because you can't change or control anyone but you...
and
because you are the one posting...
I would ask the same of her if she were here...

ark

Joey, I understand how you feel. I have a "perfect marriage" in everyones eyes but my W's.
I am a very good husband and father by all accounts but none the less my W pursued relationships outside the M. She continues an EA and still waivers whether to stay or go though she won't come out and say it. So I suppose I could certainly use some validating with female friends but from 3+ years here, know very well that I'll regret that decision. You're not going about this the right way in my opinion though I fully understand that Grand Canyon of emptiness you feel with W. I have listened for years upon years of how unhappy my W is and want to scream "do you think I'm happy" but continue to try. I think you're widowed friend already knows the odds against a relationship with you. Someone cited the 75% failure rate of such relationships but omitted the fact that only 3% of such relationships even get to marriage before the 75% fail. So it is a dead end.

Wasn't going to, but can't fight it any longer...Joey, your message could have been written by my FWH just six months ago - even the details about how you conduct your A. The only differences are that in our instance we were only married a little over a year when the A started, the A lasted 2 years and OW lives in another country. In June, OW convinced FWH to leave me and our 1-1/2 year old son to go live with her and her two pre-teen girls. When FWH arrived in OW's country, he discovered that, in addition to her relationship with him, OW was also involved with another married man. FWH stuck it out for 6 months and the other married man never went away - OW just kept hiding her contact with him. After a series of lies and other questionable acts by OW, FWH is now home with our son and me.

Regards,

Brit's Brat - BS/42
FWH - 44
DS - 2
Status - Divorce pending, but trying to recover marriage, instead.

Joey,


I don't think you have to worry about going back to the way things were in your marriage. Even if you wanted to you couldn't. That part of your life is gone. The relationship took a different turn after the affair started. It will be different. It may be better or it may be more painful. You will have to live it and see for yourself.

Your wife says that she is willing to change, to try to meet your needs. I think that if she is willing you try, why not meet her half way and try to begin meeting her needs too? It just seems that you two have too much history together to not try to make amends.

Life is not meant to be a permanent painful struggle . . . it can seem that way at times.

You asked "So are you back with your wife now? If so, how long and how is it working out?" The truth is that I never physically left my place of residence. I am trying to come emotionally home and that is still hard. As my name suggest, I am still not there. My affair was 2+ years ago.

<small>[ January 07, 2004, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: Comfortably Numb ]</small>

Wow!!! What a story!!! Ya know... I am glad you did respond because as others have said... IF this woman I have been seeing would do that with me then she could be capable of doing it even now or again later in life with another married man.

Thank you!


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Brit's Brat:
<strong> When FWH arrived in OW's country, he discovered that, in addition to her relationship with him, OW was also involved with another married man. FWH stuck it out for 6 months and the other married man never went away - OW just kept hiding her contact with him. After a series of lies and other questionable acts by OW, FWH is now home with our son and me. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

That's me... I have NEVER actually left home or even stayed away all night with her. We just got back from seeing our Marriage Counselor and he was VERY encouraging for us today including all the input from this website.

Wow... you still are wanting or thinking of the woman you had the affair with??? It last that long, huh??? I guess that is what I have wondered and pondered about, too. Does it ever go away and do you wonder inside if it could have worked if you would have left her or if you stay was that the right decision??? But even in saying all what I just said... the fact that you are encouraging me to stay married even though you have been numb in your home for over 2+ years. I take from that, you feel staying married is better than divorce and being with the other woman.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Comfortably Numb:
<strong>
You asked "So are you back with your wife now? If so, how long and how is it working out?" The truth is that I never physically left my place of residence. I am trying to come emotionally home and that is still hard. As my name suggest, I am still not there. My affair was 2+ years ago. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Joey,

I have a suggestion for you. On this website if you haven't already - do download the 2 questionnaires; Emotional Needs & Love Busters.

Fill one set out. Next fill another set out as though you are your wife. What is missing in your posts that I can see so far is much empathy for your wife.

When my FWH and I filled out the questionnaires, we were both surprised to see how few of my most important ENs were met by my H. You see it's easy to blame the affair on the BS not meeting the WS most imporant emotional needs. That's not true.

The Harleys have stated many cases where someone who has his emotional needs met still have an affair. However they go on to say that conditions weren't right in the marriage, so that allowed the affair to happen.

That's where the questionnaires come in. Give them some serious thought then fill them out. You'll be surprised when you see your feelings on the form in this way. You'll get some good answers.

Focus on your wife, her feelings etc. The changes aren't all her responsibility. You'll find that you need to make changes as well. CSue

[QUOTE] Well, with all the years of what has happened, actually, I wish she had done it first!!! Then I would REALLY feel okay for my actions!!! But I know what you're saying...

Joey, I don't think you get it. Why do you think that if she had of done it first, that it would have been okay for you to do it. Two wrongs don't make a right.

<small>[ January 07, 2004, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: Cheryls ]</small>

Well folks or those following this thread... Our Counselor today said almost the exact same thing you guys have been saying but he said to call her by phone to end the affair. He said NEVER go face to face, which was ironic because the website here says to send a letter. I think the letter is a better idea because then you don't have to enter a discussion over the phone and hear the please don't do this, etc... Just him talking to my wife and I today then reinforcing what I have been reading here really helped. I never told him about Marriage Builders until right towards the end of the counselling. I do KNOW I have to do this now... he promised it is the best thing to do and that our marriage could actually be better than ever IF we just hold on. In reality 26 years of marriage is quite a history to just throw away... He also told us of 2 books to read... for her it's called "Light His Fire" and for me "Light Her Fire" written by Dr. Ellen Kreidman.

Well... I'm close... you guys keep pulling for me. My wife is actually getting excited because she sees I am slowly emerging from what you guys call the "FOG". I still have not spoken with the OW since Saturday. She paged me today and has sent me emails but I have not responded.

<small>[ January 08, 2004, 01:46 AM: Message edited by: joey1960 ]</small>

Send that NC Letter as soon as possible Joey.

Loving your wife, doing what's right for your entire family, all of that will go better once you tell the OW that you want to rebuild your Marriage, and that her involvement will make that impossible.

It's not only fair to your W, your family, and yourself, it's also the right thing to do for this OW. If you truly care about the feelings of the OW, and truly want to make your marriage work, then let the OW know. Set her free to pursue a healthy relationship.

Joey,
Been there done that. Your story is similar to mine. XBF (&1st love) contacted me after 18 years last Aug. We were friends at first then it developed into a strong & emotional A. I wish I would have visited this site 1st! We had plans of a future like others but in June, I found he had posted a dating profile on the internet (had a hunch). I went through withdrawal and depression. I told him not to contact me and focused on my H and my kids and also work. I had been getting hang up calls at home & at work. I slipped once in the beginning and called him. MISTAKE because withdrawal started all over again.

OM lives 2 hrs away but we grew up in same small town. Over the holidays I heard he had a new GF with a horse (this caused anxiety also). OM called me yesterday!!! I experienced anxiety and another sleepless night, plus depression. Here goes the withdrawal again! I'm not sure why he called after months. He told me how successful he was again (blah blah) and how he had a "friend" but wasn't dating and was buying property because he was getting a horse. I never acted like I knew anything. He said he wasn't dating but said his son thought his friend was hot and he told me she was beautiful (same words he used to describe me all the time, how nice). He said in a dramatic tone that he thinks about me a lot. I never responded to this, but I think he's telling me things to keep me as security in case it doesn't work with his new GF. I made sure I told him how great my H was and the great things in my life. I should have hung up but he's an addiction and my weakness, a lot of us have experienced this.

Joey, I'm not sure how to attach a file, maybe someone else can help me, but I read a posting by a member and it was called Jack's library and it was about what As stood for. If you leave your email, I can send it to you. It was a true wake up call for me. I have and still continue to focus on my M and my wonderful H. We are very active at church and have become very involved. I was not prepared for the after effects of the A. I have never been this emotionally beaten. The only way to go is up from here.

God Bless.

Reality, reality, reality...
It's different for everyone I guess. But joey, if you ARE ready for REALITY, think about those wise words (not mine unfortunately, but I agree with them 200%): The best choise is to marry your best friend, just because you don't choose you best friend by the shape of her/his nose.
Intimacy? It's old, and simple like a slice of bread. There are no "cold" women, there are men, who do not make them feel let us say... "right". May be I am too old fashioned. BTW, did you do questionaires about emotional needs. I've done them resently. Just for myself for now. Hopefully my H will agree to do them too. I have to say, I was extremely surprised with results of my "selfdiscovery". Highly recommend them - very helpful for selfunderstanding!
I think (I hope!)things are getting better for us partly because I started to understand myself and it is clearing the picture of my H's problems and fears. I hate the idea of broken marriages. I love the real opportunity to rebuilt it from the scratch, which this site gives!
All the best to you and your wife.
God bless.

Joey, I am so happy for you - you have come such a far way since you started this post!! I am so happy to hear how seriously you are looking at NC and that you haven't talked to OM since Saturday. I am so happy that your counseling is going well, and that your W is working at this too.

Just know always that we are pulling for you two, and no matter how hard things get in the near future and beyond, you always have support here. Thank you for giving your W a second look - no matter how many ups and downs you two have had, remember that she has stuck with you for all these years and been faithful. There is a lot to count for that trait alone!!! (to me, 25 years just seems like an eternity - I didn't even spend that much time with my parents - 18 and I split <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )

Keep up the good progress, be strong, and post here if your strength is waning and you need extra support - Remember, affairs are an addiction, and to break any addiction, you need a good support network - it can't be done alone. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Felina

Again... I do thank everyone for his or her input and I was thinking strongly about writing the NC letter today. I still have not seen or talked with her since Saturday. I sure feel like I am... how could I say this... about to cut off my arm here or throw away a million bucks that is in the palm of my hand!!! I REALLY feel like I COULD be making the BIGGEST mistake ever staying with my wife and losing the OW but from all I have read and those D&!N statistics, it sure sounds like I would have more troubles than ever if I leave my wife.

I KNOW I sure want to go see her sooooooo bad right now, TODAY!!! And from what you guys say... IF I do that then I have to start this whole process all over again! It's not been an easy day today thinking that I'm about to end this...

You're absolutely right, it would be like starting all over from square one.

Being a smoker, I'll use that as an analogy. If I quit smoking, and went 5 days without a cigarette, deciding to have "just one" would set me right back to the beginning, and I'd have lost whatever distance I had gained in those 5 days. I'd be starting all over again from that "fix" onward.

Joey,
Don't give in, trust me. Two days ago OM called me and I have spent 2 days not concentrating, irritable from little sleep (got 3 hours first night and 4.5 hours last night). I have been rethinking our conversation over and over in my mind. I should have hung up on him. I didn't think a small conversation would hurt. Boy, was I wrong. As soon as he told me he thinks about me all the time, anxiety hit an all time high!

Jack's Library

I attached the URL of Jack's Library on what affairs stand for. Please read this as it really opened my eyes on everything which happened and what I was feeling.

Stay strong!

Well, the letter has been written, wife read it and it's off. I sure don't feel any shouting or weights falling off me, etc... Rather, I actually feel like this is the worse day of my life!!! Like I'm throwing away my life, for a marriage that that has been dead for a very long time. I sure hope I've done the right thing... It sure doesn't feel like I have...

I feel exactly like you do, maybe worse because this was a VERY deep, emotional, trusting relationship. I mean, I had the keys to her house and car while she was on vacation for a week during the Holidays; even fed her cat!!! Does this sound like your average affair??? I mean she trusted me whole heartedly... if I had been a thief I could have robbed her for everything she was worth!!!

Well it's all in the past now, huh...


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by no1mystryf:
<strong> Joey,
Don't give in, trust me. Two days ago OM called me and I have spent 2 days not concentrating, irritable from little sleep (got 3 hours first night and 4.5 hours last night). I have been rethinking our conversation over and over in my mind. I should have hung up on him. I didn't think a small conversation would hurt. Boy, was I wrong. As soon as he told me he thinks about me all the time, anxiety hit an all time high!

Stay strong! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Sounds like you are going through withdrawals. If you haven't already, you may want to see if your doc will get you on some antidepressents. If you haven't read the book, Surviving an Affair, you may not know what to expect. What you are going to feel is like withdrawals from a drug or alcohol, except your drug of choice is the OW. This is going to be a very hard time for you but know that you have support here. You have done the right thing. It may not feel right to you, but your decision was the correct one. You will want to contact the OW and may even be angry at your W, and some people said they even thought about commiting suicide. I hope this period is so bad for you, but if you need to vent, don't vent at your W, vent to us. We will help you through this. If you need anything, just post and someone will answer... You've done a great thing and you will become stronger and eventually have a great marriage if you learn the principles from this site and books like, His Needs/Her Needs, DivorceBusters, Torn Asunder, and Surving an Affair. You may not want to read these at this time, but as the pain subsides, these should be your source to building a Great Marriage... Keep us posted on how you are doing. Do not make contact with OW or your withdrawals will start all over. Do it right the first time and you will get over this quicker.

Joey, I agree with LWH.

Withdrawal is aweful! But you have to go through it. Be strong! Post to this board when you need to vent, but don't be afraid to cry on your W's shoulder - she will feel happy you are turning to her in your time of pain, and she may follow suit.

I also had a key to the OM's place - He rented from us, and he let me go in any time I wanted for anything, whether he was there or not. Yeah, it's hard, really hard giving that up, but it's the only way. My M is so much better, and my H has so much more respect for me that I gave it up without stringing it out. Believe me - it gets better with time. Don't be afraid to get some anti-D's for the time being if you need them.

We are with you. Don't give in to the temptation! You will feel worse in the end. Everytime you think of contacting the OW, think "how would my W feel". Take what you are feeling now, and multiply it for your W. It puts things in a bit more perspective - it's hard, God is it hard! (sorry - I've had a hard day today, but never break NC - out of respect for H)

Felina

Joey,

I hope you know that your struggles are giving hope to many people, not just WS's, but BS's as well. We all hope and pray that our spouses will peek out from the FOG the way you are doing!

We have read ffrom many others how "painful" this is. Although that's hard for us to imagine, we just have to take it as truth since all WS's say it.

OK, enough of that. I did not write to "bash" you at all. I wrote to warn you of something......

Joey, If you don't have a plan to succeed in rebuilding your M, YOU WILL FAIL. What do I mean? I mean that unless you and your W get some couseling, get into a plan of rebuilding, follow some GUIDELINES, you will fall back into the same "rut" that caused you to feel unfulfilled and seek out OW in the first place.

Have you bought SAA (Surviving an Affair)? ANother good book is Torn Asunder (by Dave Carder). That one is written from something of a christian viewpoint. Another book that others here have quoted is After the Affair, by (somebody) Spring.

First, though, something you can do now is go into the Concepts section of this site and print off the ENQ (Emotional Needs Questionnaire). You and W MUST take this questionnaire and learn what EN's you both have, and how to meet them. Is there any chance you could call the Harley's and get phone counseling? They say it's somewhat expensive but well worth it.

The ONLY way to guarantee to "Affair-proof" your M is make a plan for success. Obviously, thinking you could just go back to your "old life" is not going to be enough.

There is lots of great info on this site. There's even a section about how to work through an aversion to sex disability. (I say that b/c I think I read that's what led you to ow's arms). I can relate.....I AM that BW <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Please keep posting and letting us know how it's going. Especially in the hard times.....many can relate, and can lead you to what works (as well as what NOT to do!). Take comfort in knowing that many here are pulling for you and your W to "make it through."

BTW, one suggestion has been that whenever you feel you just HAVE TO talk to OW, just to hear her tell you that you're so wonderful. That you miss her voice, her words just have a way of comforting you......that you turn that energy towards your W, and call her instead, and have that conversation. Good advice to remember.

God Bless,