The hornets are buzzin' or maybe a better description would be,it is as if a snake has crawled out of it's hole! The FOW sent H an email sending her love,missing him and a reminder to be his lover forever. Two and a half years into recovery, doing great and then......

Pepperband says not to go poking in a hornets nest(no contact) and I agree.I have actually decided this FOW's actions are more like a snake.Here's why.....

I killed a snake in my back yard one summer and cut it in half with the garden hoe. The two pieces kept wriggling <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> so I cut it into 4 pieces and they all kept wriggling. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I placed all of it in a jar and put a lid on it so it could not possibly harm anyone. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I am rather proud of some of the FOW's that have come here,posted,read and made changes so understand that I am not saying this about FOW's in general. Just this psycho,narcisstic,self serving FOW.

The MBer's part of me knows it is best to ignore her. I guess I wanted to share this with those who understand. Good recovery. Great M.
Dreams coming to reality. kk

<small>[ January 11, 2004, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: kings kid ]</small>

2 1/2 years in to recovery?? She's got balls, that's for sure. How about a note back that says "Which one were you again??" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Kings:

Don't you think it would be a good idea to block the E-Mail? The A is like an addiction. I don't think you want the drug dealer to have any access to you guys.

hope4future, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She's got balls, that's for sure. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She is a wacko.She made threats of burning our house down with us in it after the A ended.
I love your reply idea. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I have thought of many things I would like to tell her but I keep thinking of what Pepperband told me a long time ago when I posted about H not doing NC letter, call or confrontation. She says if you know it is a hornets nest, don't go poking around in it.It made good sense so I left it alone. kk

Mimi, I have been reading all of your updates and I am so happy for you. This situation of mine will let you know to be ready for anything that might come along. I wish you continued success and happiness.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't you think it would be a good idea to block the E-Mail? The A is like an addiction. I don't think you want the drug dealer to have any access to you guys </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is a good idea.I have been thinking that if she is going to try contact again,I want to know what she is doing.
Mimi, thank you.I appreciate your concern and the time you take to respond to me. kk

<small>[ January 11, 2004, 12:42 PM: Message edited by: kings kid ]</small>

Kings: your topic title caught my eye... You know, my H's x-affair partner once made the comment, after the A was discovered, that if it weren't for her "belief in God our house would be smoking hole in the ground." I always found it revealing that her belief in God didn't keep her from doing my H. The descriptive "wacko" only scratches the surface!

Follow Pep's advice and leave it alone. However, I do understand your thinking about not wanting to block the email and saying "If she is going to try contact again, I want to know what she is doing." Kinda like "the devil you know..."

And, finally it's always reassuring to hear the success stories. Blessings to you and your H...nev

Dear Never Alone, Thanks for the support."A smoking hole in the ground!" So she thought God ok'd her having an affair with a married man but thought it would be all right with Him if she destroyed property and lives? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> It sounds like you can relate to my situation.

The FOW told me that she does live right,that she and my H prayed together.She informed me that she had done NOTHING wrong.

Thank you for your response. I wish you the best. kk

<small>[ January 11, 2004, 12:43 PM: Message edited by: kings kid ]</small>

KK:

Steve Harley warned me that we have to be proactive in blocking the drug dealer's access to my FWH. That's why I suggested blocking the E-Mail.

Yes, KK. I won't ever be surprised about anything. He left me and went back to her about 3 times. The only answer has been for us to block contact for about 3 months now. My FWH calls it an addiction to her.

I can't wait for the day to come, if ever, when I can become a trusting person. At least, I know now that I can go on without him and that I have done everything that I can do to recover my marriage.

Thanks for your support.

Mimi, Your support means a lot to me. I did go in and block her emails. I thought it would be the best thing for me if not for him. You know,the mind game thing.

If she is trying to throw a wrench in the works,it will not work. My H's reaction and response to me has reassured me.You are right though,we do need to block her and continue to avoid all contact.

Mimi, thank you again for your concern and advice.I edited out the part of the letter from my H as I wanted to share it just with you. I also wanted it to show you how far past the FOW the WS's can get with time and recovery and how deeply remorseful they become for the hurt and pain they inflicted upon us. You are a success story and I read and think about you often.

Keep up the good work. Love ya, kk

<small>[ January 11, 2004, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: kings kid ]</small>

Boy do I ever understand...same thing happened with us. After over 2 years OW starts calling H at work. It continued until we moved just recently so hopefully she will not get his new number from anyone and continue to call. If so, we are considering a restraining order.

Sounds like you did the right thing and hopefully this snake will just crawl back under a rock and stay there <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

No contact gets violated from the other side, too...and there are BSs out there who aren't exactly saints, either. Still, I agree:

LET IT GO. ALWAYS. WITHOUT EXCEPTIONS, CAVEATS, OR EXCUSES. WHEN THE AFFAIR IS OVER, NO CONTACT BETWEEN PARTNERS, SPOUSES, OR ANY COMBINATION THEREOF.

You should always be aware that people in pain do crazy things, things that you couldn’t imagine or anticipate, not even if you know them intimately. (I found this to be true even of myself, when the pain was thought to be gone.) It seems to me that an OW who would contact a MM out of the blue 2 years later is at least unbalanced--a reason in itself to leave her be.

My post-affair contact story/lesson learned...years after I ended the affair, and X-MM's W discovered it, I met with her at her request, thinking it would help her in some way. My initial reaction to her request was to try to be compassionate—it was the least I could do, it was a consequence of my actions. I failed to take into account the “unknown” of her general psychological makeup, coupled with the intense pain of betrayal. That alone should have warned me from meeting with her or agreeing to any kind of contact. I see now that I should have refused all communication with her--during the meeting she made references to car bombs, contacting my husband, and plans to extend her stay in my town, all of which made me feel very uneasy about my personal safety. I felt as though she was trying to trick me or manipulate me or ensnare me somehow. There was really nothing, in the end, that I could have said or done that would have helped her—what she really wanted was revenge, or to hurt me somehow (she tried). Also, she was in an emotional space where seemed to think that I was the sole (or primary) offender in all this. These, I understand (intellectually) are common betrayed spouse phenomena, but understanding something intellectually does not prevent an emotional response, she definitely triggered one in me. Right, wrong, or indifferent, the meeting did neither of us any good.

I was also very, very angry at X-MM (I think “stuttering rage” describes it accurately). I felt that I was entitled to the hard-earned serenity in my life since I had ended the affair two years prior, with great difficulty to say the least. At the time, his attitude about my decision was distinctly unhelpful (he was petulant and obtuse, rather than able to say, as a grownup would, “I understand, and I do agree it’s for the best.”). Man, I wanted to employ the proverbial 2x4 on him for not being able to say that!!! Further I was angry that he was foolish enough to keep email correspondence for years after the fact (why?), and then carelessly allow its discovery. The very least he could frigging do, I felt, was to alert me that she knew of the affair and planned to contact me (but I guess he chickened out of that too). Folks, believe me when I say that I was not craving any sort of contact from him for any reason by that time—nor did I care to whom he was loyal—but I really, really resented the intrusion after all I had done and been through to end the affair (coupled with all the other rough seas I had to navigate at that time in my life, the combination really almost killed me; only recently am I getting energy back). Finally, I was living in some sort of peaceful reality, not a fixture in someone else’s dysfunction, and the combination of his and hers rearing its head in my life was really too much to bear. (I could not have anticipated the strength of the rage I felt, and it scares me a little bit today to think about it.)

On top of all this, a few weeks after the meeting, I received an e-mail from her, one of those “forward to all women in your address book” types of missives, which made me wonder why my email address was in her address book, or on any distribution list of hers, but I took it as an accidental thing and didn’t respond. It still gave me the creeps, though, because upon parting she said that I wouldn’t hear from her again, and I was relieved to hear that then.

Needless to say I have blocked her (and his, though probably unnecessarily) email addresses, so that any attempt at contact (“accidental” or otherwise) will never be detected. Any postal mail will be returned to sender unopened. I have made provisions for any future attempts at contact in my workplace.

Without comparing relative pain, or supposing who has more right to what emotional state (all completely pointless trains of thought), I can say with certainty that there is really no value in post-affair contact of any kind. My relationship with that man is a chapter in my life that I am very, very glad to have finished, and, right or wrong, I am very protective of this status. I actually fear my reaction to any future attempt at contact of any kind, especially sabotage or meddling in my life. I am normally very sane and self-controlled, but my boundaries on this issue seem to be sacred: I intended that it should be over, and after all I had done in order to bring that about, it made me feel absolutely crazy to be forced to “go back”. I didn’t realize how “fed up” I was until all this happened. I recognize fully the wrongs I have committed, against her, him, the institution of marriage, and myself, but it is nobody’s job but God’s to judge me, and once that’s recognized, all debates are useless.

Hopefully, every OP can come to this place. No Contact means No Contact!!! Let it go, kings kid—she’ll lose interest if there’s “dead air”, and if she doesn’t, take restraining order or other legal measures. If there’s any sort of pain or craziness in her, feeding it in any way could bring about unanticipated and disastrous results. You never know.

PS—I appreciate your distinction between “kinds of” OPs and your goodwill toward those who reform. But don’t label someone a snake—otherwise, how can you believe that growth and healing is available to all people? (For my part, I really need to believe that.)

KK,

Well you could move the 'snake' into tying her own knot, around her own neck. How? I know of an OW who thought she would make the WS suffer by calling a bunch of women's abuse type organizations, churches (she claims not to be religious so it wasn't her church she was calling - hm.....) and bunch of other places, anyone who might give an ear to a wacko bent on creating he!! for the WS and family....top it all off with an RO.

What she got was the judge granting the RO but only after saying her story was weak at best. He could see right through it be felt the RO would not make it 'illegal' for both to have any contact. WS was not happy but relieved since this meant the OW sealed her own fate. Last I knew, she was stalking another WS?!??!!? C/b.

Too bad we can't put out APB's on these psyco type of OWs. They are looking for 'love' in all the wrong places......when they think they find it, they don't know what to do with it and then they beat the he!! out of it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

L.

What makes a OP come "out of the woodwork" after so much time has gone by?

I was just reading this thread, and thinking.....maybe they havee just come out of yet another disastrous relationship.

Remembering their *wonderful* relationship with YOUR spuose, they "decide" to call and test the waters, looking for a chink in the armour of your M, where it was before. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

The time frame fits..............2 yrs, 2½ yrs. Just the right time to have "died a natural death" of yet another A.

<small>[ January 10, 2004, 08:30 AM: Message edited by: lupolady ]</small>

Thanks victoria. I sincerely hope that the FOW in your situation does not ever find you or try to contact your H again.I wish for you peace and continuing recovery. Thank you for your support. I know that no matter what comes my way I will be all right.kk

Orchid, your support is so refreshing today.I have limited how much I have told about the FOW and the info about the A for a long time but I have thought about posting more about it.
The world is full of all kinds of people and I had the attitude most of my life that there are none who are bad just some who do bad things. We learn as time goes by that there are some who never see they are wrong and have no desire to even look at themselves.
I soak up every word of your posts to everyone. You are a wonderful lady and I appreciate your sharing with me and others. kk

lupolady, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What makes a OP come "out of the woodwork" after so much time has gone by?

I was just reading this thread, and thinking.....maybe they have just come out of yet another disastrous relationship.
Remembering their *wonderful* relationship with YOUR spuose, they "decide" to call and test the waters, looking for a chink in the armour of your M, where it was before.
The time frame fits..............2 yrs, 2½ yrs. Just the right time to have "died a natural death" of yet another A.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you have hit the bullseye! I am considering posting about some things that make your suggestion even more sensible. Thank you! kk

<small>[ January 11, 2004, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: kings kid ]</small>

Dear Terminator,

I am glad that you have seen the truth in your past situation.I have read your previous posts and I am aware that you have sought and developed a good spiritual foundation for your life. I also know that Pepperband has mentored you and she is one of the best. I have also learned that in making decisions about people,we have to realize that there are some types that we cannot understand or have a fair assesment of until we encounter them.
I do not wish to do anything that would have a negative effect or cause anyone's growth to be delayed.I am the one who stands up for the rejected,the under dog and the misunderstood, most of the time in my life.I am one who loves the unlovable and the thrown away people of the world.You do not know the situation or the OP in my story.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But don’t label someone a snake—otherwise, how can you believe that growth and healing is available to all people? (For my part, I really need to believe that.)
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Growth and healing IS available to all people but if they refuse to open their eyes,heart and mind to see they need it or if they are incapable of awareness of the need,due to Narcissim or mental disorder,then it usually does not happen. Thank God you are not one of those people. Thank you for your time and words. kk

<small>[ January 11, 2004, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: kings kid ]</small>

kk,

Oh, absolutely--understood. I didn't mean to suggest anything negative by what I wrote. I can already see that you have objectivity and kindness about these and other issues.

Pepperband has helped me a lot. Her posts really reach me in a way that both chastens and challenges.

Part of my "crucible" (as Pepperband would say) is that "other people" thing. I have known all my life what my shortcomings are in that case (especially regarding forgiveness) and I struggle daily with it. The most recent progess for me is:

I no longer expect to change, permanently, for the better--this is the meaning of "cross to bear".

Hope is much better than expectations where people are concerned.

I am a long way from being able to pray for my enemies.

Relationships based on need tend to self-destruct.

The longterm lesson was, of course, that you cannot depend on other people to heal you--even the person responsible for hurting you. As much as it seems right that you should be able to extract that from someone, it isn't meant to be.

How did I get onto this? Sorry, I rambled. Now I have put the thread off-topic.

It seems almost impossible to discuss affairs, though, without at least touching on the subject of unhealthy connections between people. I am so glad that you and your husband have been able to grow and recover and that you BOTH realize that the OW is insignificant.

<small>[ January 10, 2004, 06:23 PM: Message edited by: terminator ]</small>