Not sure where to start, but my wife and I have been drifting apart for a while. I guess I kinda new it, but didn't really realize it until recently, after reading Love Busters we are an example minus violence from that book for the most part.
Back in October she said she wanted to go to MC to work on our marriage. I said ok, but never really quite "got it" or what the issues were. 2 days before Thanksgiving she moves out...note we didn't really fight I just had trouble getting her to open up to me on what she thought the issues were. A few days after Thanksgiving a couple of her closest friends approach me and tell me that she has had at least 2 affairs on me in our 3.5 years of marriage. Something I never expected to hear, but in hindsight I guess I knew.....isn't always that way? Most of December I was a mess and pursued here in a somewhat pitiful apologetic way tears,letters,begging,etc ... basically falling apart, nothing seemed to work. I had trouble getting her to talk to be outside of chit-chat, anytime I would try to bring up the OM. Which by the way she had not broken contact but I think she was on the trailing end of the relationship...I think.


So I believe she has attempted to pull away from OM, but not 100% as he works with her and I don't see her willing to quit or move to another area or shift probably shouldn't have asked yet. She works nights I work days..I make enough that she could do anyjob or quit and this isn't her dream job yet she has been there for 8 years now. Throw in she has had a lying problem in general about just about anything or anybody not just to me but everybody and I did threaten that it could lead to divorce if it didn't stop about a year after we were married. I thought it had improved, but I guess not. Add in a huge fear of confrontation some of which I added to the problem but not always reactive properly ( i.e. getting angry ) when she would confront me in the past, but its not just me, she'll do it to others if she thinks the lie is what they want to here. Anyway lying, avid fear of confrontation, some attachment to OM, guilt and general fear that she doesn't think marriage can work. So I try to not mention any of those now, but I have in the past. Oh and I believe the OM is leaving town for 3 to 5 months in a couple of weeks.


January I start reading these boards and stepped back of a little bit. Start exercising get myself together start talking to somefriends and generally try to get things back on track a little. All the while she isn't willing to talk about relationship or counciling really. The more I backed up a little bit the more she tends to call me even mentioning things about the future. Potential spring vacation, perhaps adding a fence to the house in the spring...etc..etc. Not much mind you but a few brief things I noticed. I guess that was a positive thing, however today comes around and she says give me the weekend and well talk next weekend. In my head that is code for next weekend I am going to end it. Still not MC nor talk of reconcilliation.


Things I did try:


Begging
pleading to see MC.
Asking why
crying
love letters
custom CD's
calling alot
asking her out
gifts
spying
asking about OM.
accused her of being a pathologica lier...did I say I tried to do it in a nice way ... ?
Suggested she see shrink herself to deal with issues....learned not to do that again.


Things I am doing now:

Calling infrequently....trying to anyway
Stopped the letters
Email on occasion
Asking or let her ask me for dinner, lunch or coffee on occasion. I try to let her do it.
Attemping not to spy
Making a really strong effort not to mention or ask about OM.
Read Love Busters
Read Surving an affair
Gave her Surving an affair and saying only read it if you want to, but tried not to force it. She said that she would read it and has, but has made little comment.


In the end I just don't see any movement on her part torwards or away from the marriage. I just can't figure out..plan a...plan b....run for the hills...Kinda lost and searching for a light. I would like however to hire MB's if I can talk her into it, I just don't know if it is time to ask or should I let her ask. I just don't know if she will.

Hi and welcome to MB,

It is good you can see how to improve your conduct. This is hard for many to visualize and then enforce. So IMHO you are off to a good start. It is the beginning. The journey is long and the road is tough.

MB can help but you still have some work ahead of you. U ready?

1. read the concepts section above.
2. take the emotional needs questionnaire. Once as yourself and 2nd as your W.

3, read the books Surviving an Affair, His Needs/Her Needs. Both are by Dr Harley. If your W is being a manipulative freak and you need more support, try the book love must be tough. You don't have to take all her fog talk.

4. Keep us posted. We are located all over the world so most times there is someone here. We are not professionals but just like yourself have seen too much reality in the A mess.

take care,
L,.

hey bobodew,

sorry to hear another one is in trouble. I have to agree w/Orchid, you are off to a good start, but this is just a beginning. It sounds like your W is slowly turning around, but don't be surprised if she goes back and forth several times. A is an addiction and is hard to break away from. Have you exposed the A(s) yet? It'll be hard for her to continue the A once everybody knows about it.

It was about the same for me, except that my Plan A worked for about two days until I exposed her A. That's when my W got very very very angry at me and said "it's over. i am no longer considering MC or anything else to fix our M" and then it just went downhill from there. It probably is a natural reaction and will go away as exposing A is a major LB (my opinion).

Hang in there. I am losing faith (or have already lost) in our marriage, but it sounds like there is something there in your case. This emotional rollercoaster is a tough thing, but trust me it gets even harder when you realize that it's over and there is nothing else you can do (or maybe easier because at that point you turn all the resources towards your own self).

Keep us posted. I'd like to know how it turns out for you.

Yeah when I first confronted her about the affair 5 weeks ago I got the first response of its over this can't work...etc...etc. Heard that only once more when I blew up over here refusal to talk to me about it a few weeks later. For about 2 weeks I have contained my anger and tried not to mention or ask about the OM at all, but I have asked a couple of question about OM a few times. Every time I regret asking the question as I don't think it helped. The only other comment I get out of her is she keeps saying she is a horrible person and she doesn't know if she can get over it and be the wife I want and deserve. Just not sure I guess I will hang in there, but I don't know. I suspect she is going to see him again this weekend even though she has stayed away for almost a week now I think. I know its got to be tough for her as she has lots of mutual friends and works with/near him and he leaving for an extended period soon, at the same time I am stuck in the why does she disrepect me, why won't she break contact with him 100% type of things. My friends think I am crazy for trying to stick with it although they are supportive of me and try not to be negative. I did see a MC yesterday and he got a really funny look on his face when I talked about her lying issues, which in my mind openness and honesty is one of my top emotional needs. Reading surviving an affair really helped though as it allowed me to see it from both sides no matter how much I want her to come back begging...which I don't think I will ever see.

oh well, I'll keep at it.

hey bobodew,

you are on the right track. keep it up.

have you read about Plan A. The main purpose of it is to terminate the A. You also have to expose the A to friends, relatives (yours AND hers). If I were you I'd keep asking her if she is still in touch w/OM. Just don't have any angry outbursts and don't ask her to stop. Tell her you it hurts you, tell her about how you feel not how wrong she is (that's "judging" - one of the LBs) or what she should be doing... I'd also continue spying on her. she'll lie to you, but you need to know what's going on so you can act accordingly.

as for her response of not knowing if she'll ever get over it, that's all called "fog talk". she probably also told you that she loves but not in love with you and all that stuff... My W was telling me that, and yeah she was saying that she does not deserve me and that I need someone who is better than her, etc.....There is a bunch of posts on what WSs say when they are having an affair. I thought my situation was unique, but after reading some books and posts on MB I found out that all As and WS/BS behaviors are almost exactly the same. She definitely is acting like one. Ignore it... All fog talk... She does not really know what she is talking about...

I wish you all the luck and think there is a very good chance of getting back together for the two of you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by assap6:
<strong> hey bobodew,

you are on the right track. keep it up.

have you read about Plan A. The main purpose of it is to terminate the A. You also have to expose the A to friends, relatives (yours AND hers). If I were you I'd keep asking her if she is still in touch w/OM. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not sure if I should tell her parents or not. A few of her friends know and her family I don't think want to know, nor has she told them. I can't decide if telling her family is the right choice or not, but I think she still is in contact with OM. To many odd behaviors to believe that she is not....

<small>[ January 16, 2004, 10:32 PM: Message edited by: bobodew ]</small>

Dr. Harley says that it is a necessary step in his book SAA. So do many people here on MB. I know it was a major LB for me, but I told everyone. That's when she said "i'm through w/you. You just F**KED everything up for yourself. I am not going to work on the M. There is no chance for us". I am still not sure if that was fog talk or not.

I think you should get proof of A just to make sure it's still going on. Spy on her by all means. Once, there is enough evidence, tell everyone. Just be sure not to tell how you know. They don't need to know you've been spying on your W and that'll piss her off big time. Keep it private.

I can't decide if telling her family is the right choice or not, but I think she still is in contact with OM.
If she is still seeing the om, you’re marriage will NOT get any better.

The main idea behind telling is to end the affair.
Her getting pissed off is an unfortunate side effect but not much you can do about it.

Slight problem. I slipped and went over to her Aunt's to try and talk to her. I had this gut feeling something was up anyway and as I pull up the OM pulls up and she comes out to get in his car. I confronted them and it wasn't bad, but it wasn't good either. We talked later the evening about it. She covered it up of course and told me that she was going to end it with him then, I only sorda believe that but that I had made her mad and she didn't get a chance. Anyway I think the very next day she left to take a trip with him. Not 100% sure, but I have some good evidence that led me to that conclusion.

I am slowly trying to talk to others about this, but I taking it slowly and cautiosly to only do it if I think they actually might want to help either of us. Her family really,really doesn't like to get involved in issues like that...which is one of her traits that let us to not talk about problems in the first place I think ( not that I was great about it either ). Point is major LB withdrawl's in the last 2 days.

Anyway, I am considering calling MB's or Divorcebusting.com to hire a MC. I know this is the MB's site, but does anyone have any recommendations on whether they prefered one over the other.

<small>[ January 19, 2004, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: bobodew ]</small>

Hello,

I think it would be wise to make sure everybody knows of her affair. I think she is not telling you the truth. She tells you that she was going into his car and go with him to tell him it is over? She gets mad at you and just so happens to go on a trip with him the next day?.... Oh Please.

She is a cakewoman right now. She is telling you what you want to hear. My friend actions speak louder than words. What are the consequences to her actions? Allow everybody to know that she is engaged in an affiar on you. By the way, how do you think your wife would be acting if the roles were reversed. She is acting like a classic cakewoman. "No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change.?

bobodew,

don't beat yourself up for mistakes. people are allowed to make mistakes. so, you had an angry outburst. it's hard not to when you know what your W is up to. The only thing you can do is learn from your mistake(s) and handle the situation differently next time.

as far as exposing the A: the purpose of doing so is not to get people to help you, it's to make it difficult for WS to continue on w/OM. All As are based on secrecy and as long as it's a secret to everybody, it will go on. When everybody knows about it, you cannot hide it anymore, so affairees get faced w/reality. Tell everyone. So what her family does not want to help, they don't need to help, they just need to know.

good luck. keep us posted

Do you think I should send her the book "His Needs,Her Needs" ? ... or no not until she asks for something like that ?

I wouldn't. If you do, she'll see it as you being "pushy and trying to control her emotions/decisions". She'll get eventually. There is nothing you can do (except meeting her ENs and exposing the A to break it up) UNTIL the A is over. Dr. Harley clearly states in his SAA that marital recovery is not possible until the A is over. She is obviously still in too much fog to realize what she is doing. Again, once everybody knows of the A (hopefully they do not approve of it), it will be hard for them to continue on.

ok this is so screwed up. So I am more sure that she is with OM in other state seeing him off, however this is where it gets complicated. I think there will be a natural break of the relationship when she comes back to town due to the fact that OM is in military training for serveral months. I am going to meet with her mother to see how she feels about talking to me, but at this point it really messes up the whole plan A/B thing.

Of course I could just be really paranoid, but my gut and the evidence is telling me otherwise.

Ok so here it is so far. I have a MB appt for next week.

I confronted her with the partial evidence I had for her being with OM in other state and she made up several lies and me confronting her was the dog and pony show that she didn't want to go through. Things like I know how you feel about me because you make me feel terrible when you do that. OK I understand its a LB but don't I have to confront her at some point that I know she is in an affair because she keeps denying.? Shouldn't I ?

I have more facts that she was there that I didn't tell just to see what the lies would be, but I didn't divulge. I guess I have to keep some cards...maybe I have been to honest.

Is it common for them to continue to lie even when presented with evidence. I mean the lies she is telling me keep getting worse and more flimsy as time goes on, even when I confirm afterwards that she was lying.

I haven't talked to her family yet, still a little nervous about that one. I am wondering if I should do it now or wait until my MB call next week.