I am going out a limb here with my thoughts of some things I have read on this board latly.

I realize the hurt and devestaion an A causes. I also know the hurt and devestation an unhealthy marriage or in some cases an abusive one can cause. Does one justify the other. ABSOLUTLY not!

Before anyone here "judges" a poster because the A helped them "fantasize" or "escape", please have the compassion to realize we don't know what "happened behind closed doors". Or for that matter may still be. You have no idea how many times someone may have cryed for help or for things to change. You have no idea what their situation may be.

I know if you were abused, or came from that backgroud, recovery is hard, very hard. Add an A or anthing else and it is even harder.. So yes an A is destructive and wrong! I just see so many posters here seeing an A as worse or "more" wrong, when the fact is BOTH is and I don't think you can say one is worse.

If anyone feels I am out of line, I appologize, these are only my oppinions.

You lost me sohard

Are you saying what the wayward spouse suffered before having an affair is the same as what the betrayed spouse suffered after finding out about an affair?

Let us know because I don't want to rush to the wrong conclusion.

Sohard, you have a kind and understanding heart.
You are able to look at life's problems and heartaches from all sides without being judgemental.

Each of us, though, are responsible for our own actions; there is no excuse for an affair, other than our own selfish feelings of wanting love, affection and romance from someone other than our spouse!

What is your story? How were you hurt, as I know you were by your ID?
Love, Sarah

<small>[ January 19, 2004, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: Sarie ]</small>

Try 2 keep in mind that there is a huge difference between judging people and judging actions.

I am harsh when I see someone coming here, ostensibly for "help" from people who've shared experiences, only 2 continually rationalize their inability 2 do what they know is right.

I reserve the right 2 judge the livin' snot out of that behavior. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

best,
-ol' 2long

Sohard, I guess I am not grasping what you are talking about. Could you try and be a little more clear? It sounds like you saying that an affair is OK as long as it stems from abuse or some other somesuch excuse. Surely that is not what you mean and I would appreciate it if you would clarify your point.

And when you say "judgement" do you mean judgement of the PERSON or of the BEHAVIOR? Should we just not judge right from wrong? Is that bad?

No, I am not comparing the two hurts. Only the one hurting knows how much they hurt. (Does that make sense?)

I am NOT excusing an A!

We all in every relationship have to heal from our wounds whatever those may be.

I just hope we all have the compassion to realize every story on this board may be different. Each situaion may be different. So support is so important. Instead of blasting a poster that you may feel isn't taking the right path, couldn't we just support their efforts and maybe help them delve deeper to find the roots to the problems.

Maybe one poster can't totally understand the pain and resentment of a BS, but on the other hand another may not understand the pain or resentment from an abusive relationship.. so we all can learn from each other..

Sohard, would it be ok with you if the rest of us say what we want and you say what you want without trying to control the other? Would that be ok with you?

Because frankly, sometimes the best method of "support" is to blast a delusional one with the truth. It is always easy to spout nice platitudes at people, but sometimes its not very helpful.

Melody Lane.. as I said that is ONLY my view, yours is obviously different..

I respect that we all may view things differently, I do not appologize that mine is different.

2long,
Good point about judgeing the behavior and not the person. Guess I didn't look at it that way.

<small>[ January 19, 2004, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: sohard ]</small>

When God talks to us in the book of Matthew and tells us not to judge, we're told not to judge people's motives. Only God knows our hearts. Actions can be judged ergo our court system.

So many people take "judge not lest you be judged" to adnauseum and go with that old/new age thought that nothing is right or wrong-just whatever one believes is truth.

No matter what the "cause," no matter who one likes to feel is the blame, and no matter whose needs were being met or not being met, adultery is flat out wrong. It can be white washed all the day long and one can sit and pat the hand of the hurting adulterer, but that doesn't change the fact that it's wrong.

To say that one was abused or came from a difficult background doesn't make adultery any lesser of an offense. Two wrongs don't make it right!

Well said Melody Lane!

SH - I think we all know who you are talking about here....

I was in a *slightly* (if there can be such a thing) abusive M. I had an A. I wasn't right, nor justified. I do know that I was looking for a way out. I wish I'd had the courage to stand up for myself without going down a road that has fundamentally changed me - much pain, anguish, upset and trauma - not just for me, my X, but OM, OMW and family too. I can never underestimate what my A did to X. He can never underestimate what his manipulation and abuse did to me. No, two rights don't make a wrong, and no, if you are a BS not a WS, will you ever truly understand the pain, and no, if you have never been in an abusive R, do you ever really understand?

But the point of this board is to try and help people recover their Ms - predominantly after infidelity has occured. When I first came here, all I got was love, care and support. Why? I think because I immediately knew what a terrible thing I had done. I was remorseful, ashamed, desperately looking for answers about how I could put things right.

Not every WS who comes here is like that. Some don't really see that they've done any damage - if their BS doesn't know, it doesn't matter. If they tell their BS but continue contact with OP, it doesn't matter. Some come here I think to be justified in what they are doing. Some come here spouting so much clap trap about love of OP, what a special unique thing they had, their best friend, soul mate etc. etc. that actually it sickens some of us. It sickens me because it is like watching myself all over again on that self destructive path, waiting for the bomb to go off. And when it does, well the mess is awful, just awful.

Some people don't really hear the advice that others want to give. The advice is give through care, compasion and concern because a lot of us have been there, done that and got the infidelity t-shirt <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> And it's not always pretty.

Those that come here truly wanting to learn, truly remorseful, truly wishing to put right the awful wrong they have committed against their spouse - well, they get the support and warmth. Those who just want to romanticise and spew garbage about how wonderful OP is, sometimes, they get short shrift.

Lisa

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Lisa in London:
<strong> ...the point of this board is to try and help people recover their Ms... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree.

Although it's got to be hard for all the BS's here at MB to be sympathetic to the posts of WS's (like me), I do think we should *all* try to maintain a modicum of human compassion.

I've read many posts penned by WS's still "in the fog," and though I may shake my head or roll my eyes, I know they are (like me) here at MB to gain insight, support and encouragement.

I think SoHard is just saying that we should try to keep in mind that they are, at the very least, TRYING to reach out to someone (other than OP) in a positive way.

Hope I'm not way off base on this.

Culprit007

__________________________________________________
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think SoHard is just saying that we should try to keep in mind that they are, at the very least, TRYING to reach out to someone (other than OP) in a positive way.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">.
__________________________________________________

That's exactly it..

Whew! Glad to be on the same page as you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ January 20, 2004, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: Culprit007 ]</small>

To no one in particular. I would just like to relate a recent visit to my MC. I presently attend MC by myself. WS went once and decided not for her. I continue to meet with the very experienced MC and I asked him after about 8 weeks how he thinks it will work out? I equated him to an actuary in his field. He thought for a minute and said you are asking me to predict the future based on a case of one. In other words in all his experience he never had a case that he felt closely resembled mine. So my point is that every single case is unique. And even when the WS doesn't seem remorseful do we know for certain that they're not? There but for the grace of God go I. To say I would NEVER is very naive.

"No one should judge anybody"

Isn't that the definition of anarchy?

We all make judgments of others. We have to. It how we make the judgement and what we do with it that matters.