</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by sally2003:
<strong> Sex? Dont even have any interest.

Last night, after working all day, he at home with the kids, the house was a distaster and I had to start supper (it was late and nothing was being prepared). We started arguing, and he started to cry and said "ya know, I think we are through, you dont care about what you did last year, I dont feel the love we once had anymore etc".

I told him I do feel "numb" , no tears, no nothing. It's odd. Yet I know I never want our family apart. I KNOW this is the LAST thing he would want happen as well. I told him after confessing the A that we needed counselling, he brought home pamphlets from work, but never acted on it, or scheduled any appt's because he never wanted to really go.

I am equally as guilty for not scheduling any etiher.

My question...what to do from here?

Advice please?

I feel like we are hopeless even though I never want to be apart or D'd.

Sally.. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well if you want to stay married to your H you are doing about everything wrong to achieve that goal. You may want to open up your mind a little and start thinking of your H if you want to save your marriage.

Your H is a man and not a woman. So you don't want to have sex with him, well then why don't you just go up to him and kick him in the crotch. Maybe that would make you feel better? If that would not make you feel better then you should look at what you are doing to him now, it is like kicking him in the crotch. Men need sex to feel close and to feel love. Women and Men are different so your rejection of him is a huge insult.

He looks at you and sees a woman who gave her body and sould to another man. Now imagine how he feels when his wife does not want to have sex with him.

Now you also hinted that he may be looking at Porn and masterbating? Exactly what should he be doing when his wife won't have sex with him? Could you be using that as an excuse so you do not have to have sex with him? Would you feel better if your H was out having sex with an OW?

Now I know you were upset about the housework but this is the problem with A's they are a fantasy. I wonder how often your OM came over and did your housework? Had to deal with the kids the mortgage and the car payments? No wonder your H pales when compared with OM.

This is a pro-marriage site and I will keep that in mind but you need to wake up if you want to stay married. The fact that he is still with you shows you that he loves you very much. You broke your Vows will not have sex with him. Do you really want to count on your instincts on what the best course of action is in your marriage? You thought it was ok to sleep with OM and now you seem to think it is OK not to sleep with H? I guess using that logic your H should go out and find another woman to have sex with him. It only seems right since the only person that should be doing it does not want too.

I really hope you open up your eyes and I hope this 2 by 4 doesn't hurt but you have things backwards. You still may be able to save your M but you better hurry.

I would D my wife if she has an A because for a lot of us it is a deal breaker. Your H is still there so you still have hope. You are not acting like someone who may be in for the fight for their life as you now know it! He does not think you love him and right now you are not acting like you do. Can't you see how inferior he feels since you would sleep with the OM but not him

Men don't usually cry unless we are at the breaking point. It is rare that I cry but it has happened. It happened when I was almost ready to end my M but I would not end it unless my W had betrayed me and she had not. I felt trapped because my wife had not cheated but she was a good mom and horrible wife. I could never make her happy and I almost gave up. She only wanted SF a couple times a month and I wanted it 2-3 times a week. As a male I felt rejected and the funny thing is I am considered attractive and I look much younger than I am. My W did turn things around and we have a great M now but if she had an attitude like yours I would have probably split with her. Just yesterday she said she wondered if other couples have as good of a sex life as we do! It is hard to believe that this is the same woman.

Please wake up! You are not his roomate you are his W. If you do not want to end your M please examine your attitude. I really will pray that you see the light and your M can be saved. Good luck! Please get to a good MC right away.

DadandHusband

We had a very awesome sex life... I was VERY open to all his suggestions, and fantasies as I have told you.

Sex was NEVER an issue...it just is NOW because we seem so distant. If his primary way of meeting my needs is by showing me through sex and not through ohter actions like being a partner at home and helping and being friends, well I wont be sleeping with him (or anyone else he asks me to sleep with).

Maybe I havent given you a big enough picture of our problems pre-A..I dunno.

Just feeling like this board is not going to help me...maybe nothing will...maybe it really is alot of fault of my own and perhaps things are not capable of being fixed.

Thanks all,
Sally.

don't give up sally. no situation is hopeless. give it time, and do your part and more!!!

Fisrt Sally, Stop. Now take a breath. Breathe. These folks are not trying to intentionally "Bash" you. You ahev to understand that most of us have been on the recieving end of these affairs. This is what they feel ike on the recieving end of these affairs. Image if you will your child being killed and the police officer comes to you and tell you we are sorry but your young child just died we do not know why but we found their body here it is deal with it.That is what we feel on the other side of an affair. It is absolutely the same type of pain. We feel that we were simply blindsided just like the Police at your door. Now we are having to go through the pain of what has happend to us. It is in my case the most severe pain I have ever felt in my entire life. I did not cry when I buried my mother but I cannot stop crying now even after 6 months. Most days you struggle to wake up and put on your clothes. Life as you know it is simply GONE FOREVER. The world that you thought, for better or worse, is GONE. You are left with nothing else in your life but the pain of those Police. Your trust in your spouse is gone, your trust in marriage is gone, your ability to enjoy life as you have known it is gone and the love you have for your cheating spouse is gone also. You simply do not know what to do, how to act or even breathe at times. I understand you are on the recieving end of this deal. For god's sake have some compassion and mercy for your husband. You and you alone have hurt this man probably more than he has ever been hurt. He probably has no idea how to go through life right now. He absolutely does not trust you at all. He shouldn't. When you are blindsided by a affair you simply do not deal with it. You die, they bury you and you try to dig yourself out of the ground. Sometimes you make it out and some times you do not. Do not, absolutely do not place any demands on this man right now. He is in pain. Understand and let that thought soak in. Pain. Pure Pain. He is in pain.Unfortunantly for you, you caused this pain all by yourself. Show him nothing now but love, understanding and the ability to allow him to deal with his pain. If he is anything like me he hates to be alive right now. So how can you place demands on a person like that. Again, have some compassion and mercy for this man's pain. Beleive me as one of the people on the other side it is needed and appreciated. Nothing else helps right now. Best of luck, Glenn

Sally, Your focus on the pre-A problems are irrelevant for the time being. You betrayed his trust by dealing with those problems in such a harmful way and that harm is now the focus.

Kind of like someone who can't collect a debt going in and damaging someone's personal property to retaliate. The law has claim on the vandal first and foremost.

You vandalized your marriage. You want our help, then listen and focus up. Get the fans on and blow the fog away. The reality is that there is an order to resolving the issues and I get the feeling you're looking for an excuse to not clean up your mess first.

Sally

Do you want helped? So far you've gotten a lot of good advice, but the only thing you seem to be focused on is your desire to contact and still have R with OM.

Sure your H should be helping around the house, doing his fair share of house work and caring for the kids. But, it takes time and work to change things, and neither of you are doing either. You spend all your time thinking about the OM, even though he has probably gone on to his next A. Your H, worrying about his SF and getting his jollies with internet porn.

Yes, your H shouldn't be leaving his lube near the computer. After all your offended by his actions looking at porn, of course sex isn't the problem.

You had a great sex life, and had sex with H or anyone else he suggested. Hmmmm nope, no problem with M or sex life. I think you've been to open in that area, and it has helped to erode your M. How do you feel that he has to look at porn and isn't satisfied with you alone? How do you feel when he suggest you sleep with a woman just so he can fulfill some stupid fantasy? Your M has more problems then his ability to dust or do dishes. And there is more problems then sex.

You want him to be your friend, how can he when he does so many things that iritate you. You seem to find enough fault.

What have you done to help him to understand that you need domestic help? What plans or actions have you done? What form of communication has taken place for all the surface problems?

As you see them what are all of the pre-A problems. Yours and your H's. List them.

I think you do want help, but how can you get help with the pre-A problems, when all you type about is how much you want to contact the OM?

Sally don't give up. Your Pre-A problems can be fixed, but it will take both of you to do so.

Here is a piece of advice, change your schedule, start working the same schedule as your H. Be together more then apart. Do the housework together, be together. You can see how much your individual work schedules are working for your M. If you can't do that where your working, change jobs. Isn't your M worth even trying that?

<small>[ January 26, 2004, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: Silverthorn ]</small>

P.S. Sally. Hang around awhile. I think you will be able to use this website to begin to rebuild your relationship. Thousands have. It is helping me. Understand this is going to take time. You acnnot ask your spouse to do anything. All you can do are things for yourself. Your husband will appreciate the relief from any pressure you are forcing. I know it is hard but let him know ou love him, understand his pain and let him know you are there if or when he wants to talk about this. Also do whatever you can to show him you can be trusted again. It is like trying to put the explosive back into the bomb after it has gone off. It is going to be alot of work. But is is possible and alot of d*** hard work. Best of Luck and stay put because this site can and will help you. Glenn

Sally,
You've gotten great advice. The question is do you want to take it or do you want to be defensive and rationalize your behavior.

Kayla said.... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Your focus on the pre-A problems are irrelevant for the time being. You betrayed his trust by dealing with those problems in such a harmful way and that harm is now the focus.

Kind of like someone who can't collect a debt going in and damaging someone's personal property to retaliate. The law has claim on the vandal first and foremost.

You vandalized your marriage. You want our help, then listen and focus up. Get the fans on and blow the fog away. The reality is that there is an order to resolving the issues and I get the feeling you're looking for an excuse to not clean up your mess first. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She is absolutely right on the mark here. My W did the exact same thing you're doing she focused on my anger over the discovery of the affair. Anger was my pre-A issue in W's eyes. She discussed this at one of our MC sessions. The counselor looked here straight in the eye and said," It is going to be a long while before we can address the preA issues. We are going to deal with the A, the reasons and the consequences."

I hope you take this to heart.

cwmac

Silver:

First off, I cannot change my work schedule. Our nursing jobs are based on lines posted. WHen we had a hospital wide layoff, I got this position part time (nights). It really isnt a factor...infact it works for us because I can take kids to school, pick them up , do homeowrk and put them to bed by 8pm and then have a few hours with H before I go in at 11 pm (keep in mind I only work 6 days every 2 weeks).


We share a car and we dont use strangers as babysitters, and we like it that way. Nights works fine--this isn't a problem.

If when I AM at work and he IS at home (Im home way more often then not) he would cook a meal, and take care of the kids and keep the house at least somewhat organized, we'd be fine. I'm not asking to be able to eat off floors here.

Thats all pre-A stuff that, in the heat of argumnents and blame comes to light.

NOt sure who asked but as far as problems and concerns pre-A, my H's were the way men looked at me, my clothing and not having sex more then once or twice a week.

Mine were feeling as though I worked outide the house and then worked twice as hard inside the house...um him laying around and being somewhat slobbish and lazy, watching sports and wrestling while I did everything....him not being reliable when asked to do small tasks (pay a credit card bill) and being reminded repeatedly. Him complaining over the way I clean and do things "half-assed" (well you kinda hvave to do things that way when theres SO much to do and you only have 24 hours with little assistance). His coming home and being miserable because of his work day and complaining about the way I discipline the kids, or wash the dishes the wrong way etc (hes very nit-picky). If you ask other people who know him, inlcluding his own mother they always have told him to "pipe down" where I am converend, and stop being such a moody bas***d or hes gonna lose me. These are OTHER peoples words, not mine.

As far as him being ADDICTED To sex and porn....the girl/girl thing maybe did start a downward spiral.....so maybe he got more then he bargained for. Maybe I do have resentment that he wasnt satisifed with me in the bedroom.

I dunno...I am sick of feeling as though I am mostly to blame though. Im being hinest here. I NEVER had to tell him I cheated...he HAD no idea. I never left any clues. I just felt one night that I could tell him.

OBVIOUSLY there is a reason why I did this......and I suppose getting professional help is what will get me to the bottom of this all.

THanks,
S.

Originally posted by sally2003:
I dunno...I am sick of feeling as though I am mostly to blame though.

Mostly to blame for what?

Your "feelings" are not facts. Stick to facts Sally, you'll get further.

You are responsible for your personal decisions. The word "blame" is too childish. Drop it.

You are responsible for yourself, and for your decisions. Your husband cannot make you choose to have an affair.

You and your husband are equally responsible for the health of your marriage. He was not pulling his weight in the marriage .... and that is his responsibility.

You are responsible for your affair. You made a choice.

Now, are you willing to do whatever it takes to have a good marriage, a marriage with mutual love and respect?

Are you willing to stop the blame-game and do some work?

Yes or no?

Pep

Sally,
I don't think anyone here is trying to place all the blame for the condition of your marriage on you because of the A. The problems in your marriage were created by both of you, choosing to have an affair was not the best way to solve the problems! I know first hand because of my mistakes. How I wish I had found this site BEFORE I got involved with OM. I would have saved myself and my husband lots of heartache.

I believe you are the one with the power to change things here....You sound so hopeless about your husband changing...but it can be done. I found fault with my husband too--didn't think he would EVER change! I finally found that he was capable of changing but only after I made some changes in myself. You are harbouring lots of resentment toward him and heaven only knows how much he resents you...it has to be dealt with if you are to get through this stage of recovery.

Do one thing for yourself and your marriage tomorrow (or today if you read this on Tues.) Please pick up the phone book--turn to the yellow pages--get the #of a marriage counselor--and get yourself an appointment. You need to take some kind of action to start turning this around. Please do it!!!Keep posting. Diane

Sally, A MC will help mediate between the two of you and help you each see what needs to be done to bring the M back into line. It doesn't sound like the two of you can figure it out on your own without fighting.

I don't think I have heard you answer any questions about if you or H have read any of the books on here - have you? Have you done any of the questionarres. I really think you need to at least start there.

Sally, it really sounds to me that you are really angry about a lot of things, and even though you say you want the M to work, you still haven't really committed to making it work. You are pulling back - you are fighting with what you want. I was there - on paper, I knew what to do, but it took a while to really decide that I really wanted to do the right thing.

I think you need IC, too. There's a lot to you that you need to understand. You can't really better your M, if you have too many issues with yourself to work on the M. Figure yourself out - what is it that you really want - not just about your M, but about you whole life. Where do you want to be in 10, 15, 20 years. Is what you are doing now going to get you there? I found that with being married and raising a couple young kids, the first person to be forgotten about is you! Then you go out and have an A thinking it is everything else that is wrong, and really, you need to rediscover yourself.

Forget about changing your H right now - work on you! I think the best thing for me was that H broke his leg. Now I have to do everything, and you know what - it's not killing me to do it, and I have a better attitude about it anyway. It took away the whiney attitude of "why can't you just help out more....." Well, when I cut that attitude out, not only did I feel a lot better doing more than my share, but what he can do, he does happily. He will never do as much as me - I have accepted that - he is doing a bit more than he was -but, ya know, I decided that fighting over the dishes was not worth ruining a M over.

Pick your battles. Go to counseling - it will help figure out which battles are worth picking.

Keep posting! I would miss you if you left now. Also - (going out on a bit of a limb with this one) let me know if you want my personal address - if you need to vent to what feels like a less hostile ear.

Liza aka Felina

Sally,

It good that you both have time with each other.

Pepperband is right, stop the blame game. Your both wrong in your pre-a actions. That is something that needs talked about and addressed.

You did the right thing about telling him about the A, never forget that. Its the only way both of you can have a much better and stronger M. That is the goal, and there is a lot of hope for this.

But, you have to make the choice to fully engage in the M again. So does your H. Its time you choose each other. Talk, share your feeling, work on the M.

Changes don't take place over night, and not at all when neither person does the work. It does sometimes takes one person to start the ball rolling though. Choose your M and start it rolling.

Well, if I don't agree with or like alot of what has been said since yesterday, Iwill concur Silver that something has to HAPPEN right now because its stagnant, and I feel like we are just cohabitating right now.

I look for a MC today. I hope he will go. I already know that he thinks MC's just feed the same crap to everyone and take your $. I know he feels it won't help,waste of time. But, I will make an appointment.

This is the truth here...I am not really pining for the OM lately....I do think of him, but that feeling I need him to get through my days, to make me laugh, to make me happy isn't present. Like I know that situation was fake and hopeless and would never go anywhere and that it was only a matter of time before it fizzled.

Its weird...never thought Id be there.

I also feel like as long as we arent arguing I could go about each day just doin the same old...work, cooking meals, baths for kids, bedtime etc and be ok to just say "night dear" and go to sleep. I know thats not a marriage but I just feel if we can at least get along that would be fine.

I just feel as if though my love for my H and maybe his for me is not a romantic and passionate love. Maybe thats what is what it turns into when you have been together 13 years? Is it normal? Should we be evoking these feelings of passion etc in eachother or is it GOOD enough to just be buds, to be friends and get along?

I m just not feeling much of anything lately....maybe depressed? I dunno.

Off to do laundry...thanks guys

S.

Felina

Thats was a nice thought (your email addy).

Sure if you want to give it to me that would be great.

Sally

I guess it takes a lot of work on both S's parts to keep the romance going. And, really its a crime when a M couple decide to let it go. But, it is something that can be reclaimed and fixed.
Passion and Romance are something to stive for. Never settle for just friends, you both owe it to each other to do better. It will also be a good lesson for your girls. To see there parents in a passionate, loving, and romantic marriage. That is something you both owe to them.

Its just a matter of time when reality would finally hit. The OM did meet some of your EN's, pinpoint those because your H can not only meet those, but really do them beyond your wildest dreams. Like I've said before, your stronger then you think you are.

Just remember when looking for an MC, find one that saves M's. Has simular or same beliefs in MB principles. Something to ask.

Our MC taught Poe and I how to Mirror, something to ask your MC about when you start. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Yep, laundry day here to, and I do help out. I even know how to seperate colors and whites. I knew this before I married Poe, forced to learn when I became a teenager.

Sally, your M is going to be much stronger then it ever was. It will take work and time and patience. Start showing your Love to your H, and the feeling will follow.

Silver;
That was the 3rd time I have really cried since coming to this board. The first was the replies I got to my first post where I explained about the OM and how I couldnt eat, sleep and live.

THe second was weeks after, while trying to initiate NC, and Just Learning posted very beautiful and inspiring words to me--I distinctly remember sitting at my computer bawling.

Then just now, your words really just gave me hope in myself.

H has agreed that we can go see a C. He wrote this

We need to set a date where we want to be good again, we need to write our issues down on paper
and discuss them I will make a list at work if i have time of how I feel, and you do the same, ok?

I hope this will be a start. I am a "rmantic" girl. I dont want to be just buds. Infact, Im scared that may set the stage for another A years down the road if thats how it is going to be.

Thanks once again Silver for your inspiration,
Sally.

Sally, I am so glad to hear a positive post from you. Doesn't it feel good to be on the upswing?


Keep up the good work!

Liza

<small>[ January 28, 2004, 09:29 AM: Message edited by: Felina ]</small>

Upswing...I dunno, somedays I feel almost back at square one.

Thanks for the email address Liza,
Sally.