My W has made great progress, closed down
extra email account, blocked chat address,
but OM defeated that by using a new name.
WS said that she tried, but the withdrawal
was too hard. Today OM called and she talked
to him and she called him back later while I was
at the marriage councelor,(met as a couple
last week and this week is the seperate time.)
She has agreed to be honest and she did tell
me about these calls. We did the needs survey
tonight. She is also going
to MB conference this weekend with me. She has read SAA
and agrees with
most of the information. When she sent OM the
No Contact letter, he has continually tried to reach her, ignoring her requests to leave her alone. There have been several phone contacts.

She has no female close friends she can talk
to, so she has decided to continue their
relationship so she can talk. He is the
only one that she can talk to besides me she
says.

DD was Jan 6, and NC letter was Jan 11

I am having a hard time trying to give all
and work on meeting the EN that I neglected
before while she continues her contacts.
I couldn't sleep tonight, so here I am.
She doesn't apparently belive in the total
breaking off of all contact.

How do I continue loving her (she said she wants to make the marriage work) while I feel the pain pain of her contacts? I believe her that the
physical relationship is over.

Hi-I'm a bs. I guess that was the greatest EN for her. If she can only talk to you, then you might suggest she also talk to the counselor instead of the OM, a substitute.

She is still in the fog, she needs to cut off contact. You are right. She will get there, be patient and be VERY happy she is honest with you. Do not LB, just say, I am so very happy that you told me about the contact.

I am sorry for your pain, it will be OK. She knows she has a good thing with you or she wouldn't be so honest. It sounds like she is trying. It is still very new for both of you. It is so hard to be the bs. She will not understand how much you have been hurt. You are doing all the right things, the MB weekend is a great idea. Just let her talk, listen and don't offer a solution to what she says all the time. For women, we talk because that is how we think. I read the Men are from Mars book and that really sums up how men and women think differently. She just wants to get it off her chest and talk. All you need to do is listen and nod you head or say what she said to you back to her.

For example. She might say I'm so tired today. A response might be Oh you shouldn't have shoveled that snow, I'll do it next time. What you should say is, yes, you must be tired after doing all that work. The walk looks great.

Just a poor example, but you know what I mean. Just listen and don't try to fix the problem. Hang in there, you are not alone-Jersey Girl

beginner, the contact issue cannot be negotiable issue. That is where you have to set a boundary or marriage will never recover. Of course she will not withdraw if she continues to talk to him. And your marriage will NEVER recover as long as she is in touch with him. Every time she talks to him, she puts you and her right back to D-Day and every step you take towards recovery is nullified.

No contact is just not a condition that you waffle on unless you like torture. The LEAST she can do if you are willing to stay is to cut off contact. If she wont' cut off contact, then you really need to reconsider your options.

<small>[ January 28, 2004, 07:46 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

I want to also point out that her openess in telling you about contact DOES NOT justify the contact.

Beginner,
I agree with everyone else. She has to stop the contact...or she will not ever get 'over' the OM. She is trying to have both of you....he is still meeting some of her needs.

I did the same thing...kept contacting the OM through email and occasional phone calls for several months after A ended. I finally had to realize that by contacting him, I was trying to hang on somehow.

She will go into withdrawal if she is emotionally close to him, but she has to stop contact if she wants your marriage to recover. This may be hard for her...but you have got to insist on this. Don't 'settle' for less.

I delayed my recovery by continuing the emails. It wasn't until ALL contact ceased that my feelings for my husband returned and became stronger than ever.
Good luck,Diane
FWW

Marriage counseling while still continuing contact with the OM is not only a waste of money but a waste of time as well. It's practically impossible to heal and rebuild a marriage if she is still in touch with the OM because her resolve and committment to do her part of the much needed hard work of recovery will just not there. So I suggest that you put the marriage counseling on hold until she truly ends all contact with the OM.

I suggest that you tell her about this forum, for there are quite a few FWW's that she could relate to, get support from and an occasional 2x4 hit over the head to get her on the right track.

Beginner:

I understand what your WW is going through; that is, her feeling of having no one to confide in. Luckily, primarily through the use of this forum, I did not fall back into the habit of contacting the OM. It's tempting when you're lonely and/or hurting, but no contact MEANS no contact. You two can't work things out if there's a third party constantly interfering.

Please refer your WW to this website; we'll all be happy to "talk" with her. There are both betrayed spouses and wandering spouses here, so she can get perspective from both sides.

Best of luck to you both; you're in my thoughts and my prayers.

You MUST keep trying to work at filling her ENS!!!!!This is a must!! My sister broke off contact with her OM at the request of my brother-in-law and then 2 weeks later ended up right back in the OM's arms because my brother-in-law refused to work on meeting her ENS!!!! He made it all about him/ how hurt he was/ how the marriage wasn't working for HIM!! I'm not saying it should all be about the WS getting what they want, but if you really want her to stay and to have the strength to give up the OM, you must feed her selfishness right now. She is still in the fog, and your #1 priority right now should be about getting that fog lifted.

When my FWH broke it off with the OW, he did so with the idea that they would still be friends. (I didn't force the break up/ I didn't even know about the A until a week or so after the break up). He genuinely thought they could go back to pre-physical contact behavior and everything would bump along nicely. (They worked together and still do <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ) It was only when he saw how badly I was hurt by the A that he realized that they could NOT remain friends.
She must realize that the last person who needs to know about the ins and outs of your marriage is the OM. As long as he's informed on how the marriage is doing, he will know how to approach her and seduce her back. She's giving him all the information he needs to assume an arsenal to attack your marriage. She must realize that for the marriage to work, BOTH OF YOU must take measures to protect the marriage

You just must be real careful that you handle this with love instead of trying to punish her, or she'll likely do as my sister did and run right back to the OMs arms.

Peace.
Jamup

My wife was inthe same situation - the OM was the only good friend she had that she had any contact with on a regular basis - in a sense, he was her only friend. Our MC pointed out that my wife needed to develop good female friendships. He said this was a common theme among women's affairs.

Getting her to get on this site is a good start, and getting her off chat.

<strong> She has no female close friends she can talk
to, so she has decided to continue their
relationship so she can talk. He is the
only one that she can talk to besides me she
says.
</strong>

what a load of bull. you know, there are maybe 10,000 different excuses why it's still OK to be in contact with OP - all of them feeble attempts to continue the affair.

on the upside, your wife is telling you about this, which is good.

continue to get her to NC

Thanks so much for the replies.

My WS has decided that she will call her OM
and not keep to the NC letter. She was posting
here and giving encouragement to others until
she posted about calling him and was given the
"2x4 hit over the head to get her on the right track." as mentioned above. She decided that
she didn't like the advice except from 1 person
who said it was ok to contact him.

She called him today again to tell him we were
going down to MB conference, so he wouldn't be
hurt or concerned when she didn't answer her cellphone this weekend. She also told him about
the vacation I planned for us in March. These
are good things to be telling him about, but
I feel like I am getting stabbed whenever she
calls him.
At the same time she IS working on stuff.
After going over our Needs forms, she is trying
and I am trying to meet each others needs.
She is the type that sometimes says
nobody is going to tell me what to do.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by beginner at the pain:
<strong> She called him today again to tell him we were
going down to MB conference, so he wouldn't be
hurt or concerned when she didn't answer her cellphone this weekend. She also told him about
the vacation I planned for us in March. These
are good things to be telling him about, but
I feel like I am getting stabbed whenever she
calls him.
At the same time she IS working on stuff.
After going over our Needs forms, she is trying
and I am trying to meet each others needs.
She is the type that sometimes says
nobody is going to tell me what to do. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't get it. Why should the OM know you are going to an MB conference??? He is the OM. That means he has activly worked to destroy your marriage. That means he has no respect for you, your marriage and your marriage vows. These guys make me sick! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Why does he need to know anything?

How come he was able to e-mail you wife by chaning his e-mail ID? She should change her ID and NOT TELL HIM WHAT IT IS. Better yet, you should both have ONE e-mail id that you share so you both see everything.


She is the type that sometimes says
nobody is going to tell me what to do.

Have your read SAA? The WW in that book had the same attitude. She justified her affair by saying that her husband was trying to control her. She should avoid the OM and have NC not because anybody is ordering her to do so, but because it is the RIGHT thing to do to rebuild your marriage.

<small>[ January 29, 2004, 11:00 PM: Message edited by: auto009988 ]</small>

I hope not to sound too negative....

Your WW is going to MB conference, does work on herself etc - good.

At the same, she only takes advice which she likes ("it's OK to contact OM") and filters the rest out.

I'm afraid that all your positive changes, all her apparent "work" and effort are not coming through.... being paranoid I might even suspect that she is playing a game so she then can justify "well I've tried"?

Fact is, as long as she maintains contact she isnt even STARTING to give your marriage a chance. Once she manifestly shows this will, then she is serious. She will be in pain, but together you'll able to deal with it. Before that, it's just.... empty words and a charade. tell her, in the nicest tone possible, that it's not going to work like that.

Beginner

Your W is a cake eater. Soon because of continued contact the A will flare up strong as ever, if it was ever really over.

How could she be meeting your needs when she is to busy worrying about the OM, and making sure he is informed about everything she is doing.

There can be no friendship with the OM, and NC.

She didn't even give enough effort to NC to get over withdraw.

You do need to talk to her, and let her know how her continued contact with the OM is effecting you.

Its time for you to set boundries and make plans. Her actions shows that she isn't working on the M.

Hi Beginner,

When you say she does not have female friends to talk to, is it because she has no friends or is it that she has no friends she wants to talk about the A to?

Who else knows about the A? How did it start?

Is the OM married?

I echo what was said above, she does not like this board because she does not like the advise she gets. It is good but not conveniant for her. I am sure that the same advise came from both sides of the fence.

I also agree 100% with Jamup, "As long as he's informed on how the marriage is doing, he will know how to approach her and seduce her back. She's giving him all the information he needs to assume an arsenal to attack your marriage. She must realize that for the marriage to work, BOTH OF YOU must take measures to protect the marriage." She has already told him N/C. No she is not following through on it, but he is not giving up and is being extremely persistant. You can bet the farm that he will use information to his advantage. I can say that from experiance. That is exactly what the OM did to my W.

She speaks to OM and he is going to be all understanding, and caring. He is her shoulder to lean on, fullfilling that need.

It is absolutely essential that contact ceases for your M to recover.

So beginner, How did the conference go?

The conference went fantastic and the Monday after
she called the OM to say she couldn't talk to him anymore. She has not talked or seen him till yesterday when he was behind her leaving the subdivision and "he looked so sad", BUT she resisted contacting him or pulling over, etc.
She has be going thru the withdrawal for 1 week now. We have to take it one day at a time.

We have finished the first week assignment and
are starting week 2 of the assignments.

We are making progress, still rollercoasters,
but the seminar was worth it and as Dr. Harley has stressed, forming new habits will take a while, up to 3 months, and we believe the homework is worth the time and effort.
There is hope!!