Every time I bring up the topic of her EA with ex-BF (or should I say current bf <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> ) she changes it to how she doesn't know if she wants to spend the rest of her life with me or if it isn't him it might be someone else. Never fails...or in less-fogged moments "I know but I don't know" or something of the sort and I'll become a betrayer or a snitch if I out her to her parents. I'm going to do it. I need this to end...she doesn't talk sense...everytime I tell her we can't even begin if she doesn't stop this she goes "but I don't like you...". Her mom's out of the country on holiday and her dad's going to join her there...when they are both back I will ask her once more to do the NC letter and maintain NC (I hope she surprises me by agreeing) or I will out it to her parents...I will call her bluff...I love her dearly but she is hurting me immensely and I want the truth out. What do you guys think of my plan? Any suggestions?

If ratting her out is your plan to get her to stay with you, you may be disappointed. However, if you want the secret out just for the sake of clearing the air, then go ahead. Just be prepared. When my sister's secret came out about her OM, she faked a "recovery" process with my BIL for 2 weeks then scurried off to the OM. She's been with the OM ever since.

I don't know much about your situation, but with my sister, if her husband had diligently tried to meet her emotional needs and fed her self centeredness, he might have managed to keep her. As is happened, he was so hurt and defensive about his own pain that he shut her off even more emotionally until she just "ran" away. Looking at their situation I thank the Lord over and over for giving me a husband that waded through my pain, held my hand, wiped my tears and did not leave me behind after his A.

Good Luck and God speed.
Jamup

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by jamup:
<strong> If ratting her out is your plan to get her to stay with you, you may be disappointed. However, if you want the secret out just for the sake of clearing the air, then go ahead. Just be prepared. When my sister's secret came out about her OM, she faked a "recovery" process with my BIL for 2 weeks then scurried off to the OM. She's been with the OM ever since.

I don't know much about your situation, but with my sister, if her husband had diligently tried to meet her emotional needs and fed her self centeredness, he might have managed to keep her. As is happened, he was so hurt and defensive about his own pain that he shut her off even more emotionally until she just "ran" away. Looking at their situation I thank the Lord over and over for giving me a husband that waded through my pain, held my hand, wiped my tears and did not leave me behind after his A.

Good Luck and God speed.
Jamup </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Jamup, I've been doing my best to meet her ENs for two months now and she has been responding much more positively, I don't want to live in fear, I love my wife and am doing everything in my power to make her happy...I do slip up sometimes, minor things like a few bad habits but by and large I have cleared them up...if she is going to go then I can't stop her but I know I will have my ILs support, I just hope they're not too harsh on my dear W...I want to do this to clear the air, nothing vindictive about it at all...I want the EA to stop. I haven't done the outing to my ILs because it would be a LB but many have recommended that I do and so does Dr. Harley's MB stuff. I just wish I could do it in such a way that it doesn't seem vindictive to her because that is absolutely not my intention.

Ironbeast, this may help. My had a ONS 2 years ago which has been followed by an EA that refuses to end. There is weekly contact and about 3 or 4 brief phone calls per week. Enough to drive me crazy. Anyway today I gave her a letter asking her to end the Affair. I have been hesitate to call it that but that's what it is. Anyway, she initially was willing to let me give her a hug and agree to join me at MB councelling. Then after she gatherered herself she began to lash out. I don't think it's panic time yet for you. Continue to Plan A and keep subtle pressure on about how much it hurts you. Maybe show her my posts if she is even willing to consider coming here. But I have learned through this that EA is worth than ONS or certainly can be. My W has not grasped this concept yet.

WOE

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by walkingoneggs:
<strong> Ironbeast, this may help. My had a ONS 2 years ago which has been followed by an EA that refuses to end. There is weekly contact and about 3 or 4 brief phone calls per week. Enough to drive me crazy. Anyway today I gave her a letter asking her to end the Affair. I have been hesitate to call it that but that's what it is. Anyway, she initially was willing to let me give her a hug and agree to join me at MB councelling. Then after she gatherered herself she began to lash out. I don't think it's panic time yet for you. Continue to Plan A and keep subtle pressure on about how much it hurts you. Maybe show her my posts if she is even willing to consider coming here. But I have learned through this that EA is worth than ONS or certainly can be. My W has not grasped this concept yet.

WOE </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks woe, I'm not panicking, that has passed...now it's the rollercoaster...one day she's affectionate, loving, talking about what to name our future kids etc another it's "I don't like you, I don't want to be with you" and this is usually after she's had a talk with Om or one of her airy friends who think a marriage is just like a bf-gf relationship, the moment there are things to work on to make it better you jump ship...apparently things are just supposed to work like magic or it's not worth...It takes a great deal of mental energy to control my emotions and tears at these times...and she's the ultimate staller and I know she has trouble saying "no". She finds it amusing that I tracked one of her meetings with OM-ex-bf with a PI and when I ask her to stop she will say anything from "but he's my best friend" to "but I don't want to be with you" or "I know but it's hard"...I know her parents would force her to stop cold turkey immediately...they loathe such things...it's for her that I haven't said it so far but I see that I'm making a mistake.

<small>[ February 03, 2004, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: ironbeast ]</small>

Iron, you're not necessarily making a big mistake. It's a very delicate process for sure. I have been attending MC by myself for about 10 weeks. On the surface it's a waste of time but the fact that I'm willing to shell out $100 twice a month will eventually get W's attention. She has never once said we can't affort it because she knows it comes out of my spending money. However there is no doubt this bothers her from both a money standpoint and the fact that it shatters her illusion that she is managing things well. So I guess my point is subtle, loving pressure and not an A-Bomb. Be consistent in Plan A and in keeping the pressure up. I think you better get a lot more opinions here before you go to the parents. It's a big step and maybe it's not necessary yet. Believe me I'm not underestimating your pain. But today my W said the she was figuring things out for herself and now I've screwed that up. But in my letter I wrote it was killing what love I had left. When you start to feel that way then it may be time for the parent talk. I don't know your whole story so some more info might be useful.

WOE

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I've been doing my best to meet her ENs for two months now and she has been responding much more positively.........</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Two months is rarely long enough to do a good Plan A - with or without exposure of the affair. If she's been responding, cool your jets on exposure to her parents - but not for long.

To get more info on exposure, read the link in my sig line below and the embedded links.

If the BF married?

What kind of relationship do you have with her parents?

In general, exposure is absolutely necessary - no guarantee to help restore a marriage, but necessary to end an affair that doesn't end on its own.

On the other hand, "recruiting" in-laws is chancy, at best. Exposure to in-laws will be regarded as "recruiting" to the WS. Either way, you'd be surprised what some blood relatives can rationalize. But frequently, in-law exposure is very effective.

Isn't there anybody else you can out the affair to other than her parents? If not, and after some longer Plan A, exposure to her parents may be the only course you have, in conjunction with going to Plan B. In any case, if you are in communication regularly with her parents, they'll detect something's amiss and might ask you questions. Tell the truth.

<small>[ February 03, 2004, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

Yes, it's time to clear the air. A's live in secrecy, and the number one item on the Plan A to do list is to tell people about the A. Tell OP's SO, tell family, tell friends.

She is living in a fantasy right now, and by letting go of the secret, the fantasy bubble pops.

Her parents should have been told long ago. By continuing her secret, you are perpetuating the lie and allowing the A to continue.

Hi ironbeast,

I was so sorry to see you on this side of the forums...I remember when I first wrote to you, I was encouraged by the positive efforts you were making towards your W, as reparation for past problems. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

However, you never mentioned an A at that time...did you know about it then? Was fear of her A (or your suspicions) your motivating force to try so hard to meet her needs?

In any case, stillhere is quite correct...outing the A is an integral part of Plan A. However, as soon as I read your first post I thought...NO WAY! That is NOT the reason to do it.

Go read some of Star*fish and Cerri's posts on JFO...you need to rock the A boat but offer a tempting alternative. If you are outing the A as revenge/vengeance, it is going to negate all the good work you've done so far.

The reason for outing is because you want the A to end. You want your W back. It is all part of a PLAN...all things must work together for the plan to work.

Clear as mud?

Here are some specifics:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> when they are both back I will ask her once more to do the NC letter and maintain NC (I hope she surprises me by agreeing) or I will out it to her parents </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">bad bad bad...do you mean you'll threaten her with exposure? Or that if she doesn't do what you want, then you'll expose her as a consequence?

Have you read HNHN? I'm asking because Harley does such an excellent job (I think) of explaining to men how women view the A. It is rarely sexual...or rather, sex is not the basis. For most women, it is the powerful attraction of the EA (ie. even if it is a PA).

That is why until you consistently meet those ENs of hers, it will be hard to break the hold she's in. She's not simply weak (ie. even if "she's the ultimate staller") or overly influenced by her friends...she's a very very typical female WS.

You see, he IS her friend (in her mind). Friendship is very important to women. And unfortunately there's a very good chance that she's built up her emotional attachment to him far beyond what it actually is in reality.

If you haven't already done so, read up on some of the WS stories from women here. That is what you are up against -- her friend, her best friend.

Okay...maybe there is more that can be done...

What is it in his friendship specifically that she values? Do you know? Have you talked about it with her?

When she starts railing against you, how do you deal with it?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I do slip up sometimes, minor things like a few bad habits </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...like what specifically? And how does she respond?

awed

P.S. No need to copy the whole post to respond...especially since mine are so long! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

BTW: does she have trouble believing it is an A? Or that there is anything inappropriate about the relationship? If so, here's a thread that has some good info on it...

an EA is still an A

Careful forcing the issue. You seem to be trying to force an ending to this quickly. Unfortunately, it is going to take time. If you start forcing her by telling her parents you are shooting the dice. It will most likely move her closer to the OM. We tend to go for things we can't have.

Just meeting her EN's will keep her in your court. She will not move against you, because you are meeting most of the EN's and OM is only meeting some.

In my experience, trying to force her hand only sets you back. It is a slow and tiring process. But, if you put the time and effort into the relationship and meet what he is meeting now for her you will eventually end the A.

Have patience, and hang in there. good luck.

Thanks awed, wokeup, and everyone else for your valuable input....I got the HNH tapes, haven't been thru all of them yet...she mentions certain things...OM is separated from partner and has a daughter. W said on weekend she really likes a hardworking man like OM (who is a driving instructor)...just because my work isn't manual/physical like his doesn't mean I don't work hard (I'm an IT consultant)...when she rails on me I listen and respond calmly after she has finished by saying how much I love her and that we've just gotten married and how I'm still learning to meet ENs and am getting better (according to her as well)...she also said OM lets her be a kid when she wants to be a kid and babies her and I actually LIKE doing that (W is 22, I just turned 28).

Okay, I think at this point outing isn't the best thing to do. It's hard for me to pressure her because she says stuff like "but I don't like you"...I know she's in a fog but it's so hard to hear those words and disregard them!

I responded to your other thread because I thought there was a lot there to work with, a few specific changes I could suggest to what you've been doing so far.

Plan A IS hard...which is why you can't sustain it for a long time...which is why you throw your everything into it so that you can head into Plan B with the firm knowledge that you did do everything you could to show her how great your M can be...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> how I'm still learning to meet ENs and am getting better (according to her as well </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is terrific! Keep up the good work...if she's noticing the changes and telling you, that's great to hear.

Make sure you never ASK her though...and if she does make a nice comment, always thank her. My additional suggestion? Be confident too (and a compliment never goes awry either! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ): "hey babe, it's easy to do something sweet for you!"

No tears, no mush...remember...hard as it seems, you really are her lifeline...either she knows it somewhere inside, or subconsciously...either way, confidence on your part translates to stability, security...all of the things she likely THINKS about having with OM, or dreams about, or fantasizes...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> she also said OM lets her be a kid when she wants to be a kid and babies her and I actually LIKE doing that (W is 22, I just turned 28). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So are you having FUN together? Are you taking every opportunity to do stuff she enjoys? Remember...do the best Plan A you can because Plan B is the next step.

Your W is young, even young for her years. (Does she have father issues by any chance?) I think you mentioned before that OM's older than her...certainly as an old BF, she's using him as a security blanket.

It seems to me like you have a couple of weeks to work with before exposure? Think about this stuff, see if you can improve your Plan A...see if anything changes as a result...prepare your exposure "speech"...think about anyone else that you can expose to...read more about EAs...

you've done REALLY well from the first post I read describing your W...do you feel that? Does it give you optimism? Do you realize how much you've learned? great great stuff...awed

thanks for the confidence boost awed! I do feel that I've come a long way and I was impressed I dealt with the fog talk so well initially...the last couple of days I have been faltering though, getting that panic/hurt feeling when she goes into her "I don't know if we will be together forever" speech. I did get angry at her last night and told her I don't want to hear of it...then apologised immediately and said that I have been controlling my anger and emotions a lot better but I do slip up sometimes and coaxed her to talk to me again and she did. We do have fun together, we watch broadway shows together which we both enjoy, planning to go on our third holiday since we got married, cooking together which we both enjoy...I have changed so much in myself...she sometimes says she's scared it won't last because she doesn't completely believe that I am interested in stuff that she finds interesting and I always assure her that I do and that just the fact that I love her makes those things interesting to me because I get to spend time with her...I've gotten my panic attacks under control and have completely stopped the tears and the mush (in front of her anyway).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have changed so much in myself...she sometimes says she's scared it won't last because she doesn't completely believe that I am interested in stuff that she finds interesting and I always assure her that I do and that just the fact that I love her makes those things interesting to me because I get to spend time with her... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Awesome!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> You are getting it man...BIG high five to ya...awed

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by awed18:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have changed so much in myself...she sometimes says she's scared it won't last because she doesn't completely believe that I am interested in stuff that she finds interesting and I always assure her that I do and that just the fact that I love her makes those things interesting to me because I get to spend time with her... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Awesome!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> You are getting it man...BIG high five to ya...awed </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks awed...without this board I would be going insane. My marriage isn't even a year old yet and already I've been through so much turmoil with my parents about it (we had their blessings to get married but we decided to be adventurous and elope before the ceremony...stupid I know but seemed romantic at the time) and my W's EA

I know for a fact she is seeing OM at this very moment when she is supposed to be at her hospital teaching session (she is a final-year med student)...she even said she would have to spend the night over at hospital because she was on-call late but I said no matter how late I would go pick her up because I hate spending the night without her...now she says all of a sudden that she can come home earlier...I got suspicious and did my e-surveillance on her mobile and sure enough she's not even near her hospital...normally I would be shaking uncontrollably in pain and anger but I have grown up a lot because of you guys...I also know that nobody can physically help me and I need to keep calm and keep my wits about. My immediate reaction was to out her to her dad tonight but that would be plain stupid. I'm going to show her te evidence on the way back home and ask her how she thinks this makes me feel...in the nicest, most controlled manner.

before I would have despaired but now I feel what doesn't kill me makes me stronger.

yes...and I wish she'd get it through her foggy little head how special it is, what a gift it is, to have someone love her like you do...and that she'd then give you the positive result you want so much...

I wish this for all the BS here. That's the bond we have with each other.

In the meantime, you keep right on taking heart from MB...because you are quite correct, you are getting stronger, you are learning new ways of coping with conflict, lessons I hope you take to heart throughout the rest of your life.

Hey, Iron B, remember to take care of yourself as you go through this. Just know that Anxiety is worry out of control. It can eat your stomach alive. And drugs is not the way to go. If you are not already do join a Gym and go for daily runs. Believe me I would have expired already if it wasn't for the daily exercise.

It really relieves the tension. Remember, is i think, If you drop of a heart attack, the OM wins. Keep your head clear and exercise.

IB,

Please look at some of the dialogue between awed and myself. I think it may be of some value to you.

I have decided to wait on the exposure of my wife's A. Let me tell you that a consistent Plan A is an investment. My investment is slowly but surely paying off. We are beginning to just be friends again. We are spending more time together and things are looking up. That isn't to say I'm done with crying and the "roller coaster" we are all too familiar with. Plan A her with all of your heart and head.

Do silly stuff with her. It's fun to be a kid again. Don't just let her be a kid like the OM, join her... Can You Say FOOD FIGHT! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Best wishes,

Titleist

<small>[ February 04, 2004, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: Titleist ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Titleist:
<strong> IB,

Please look at some of the dialogue between awed and myself. I think it may be of some value to you.

I have decided to wait on the exposure of my wife's A. Let me tell you that a consistent Plan A is an investment. My investment is slowly but surely paying off. We are beginning to just be friends again. We are spending more time together and things are looking up. That isn't to say I'm done with crying and the "roller coaster" we are all too familiar with. Plan A her with all of your heart and head.

Do silly stuff with her. It's fun to be a kid again. Don't just let her be a kid like the OM, join her... Can You Say FOOD FIGHT! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Best wishes,

Titleist </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks guys, I am very active physically anyway (soccer, gym) and I went to my usual gym routine yesterday...was supposed to meet up with W afterwards at a tube station nearby (we're in London, UK btw) and she gave me a nice surprise and showed up at my gym. Didn't mention a word about the fac that I knew she went to see OM, we had a nice ride back home, watched some tv together. Today she was supposed to go in early but she was a bit lazy...we left for work/uni together...midway thru the trip she said she wasn't feeling well so she'll skip uni today...you know what I was thinking immediately but I didn't say anything, she said she'd go home so I called my FIL and asked him to stay so he could pick her up from the station...then W called and teased me about being controlling by telling FIL when she's coming in and I said "I just don't want you to have to walk back when you're not feeling well, sweetie".

The funny thing was, I wanted, I SO wanted to forget what I knew last night when she showed up in the gym, I WANTED to believe her line that it was a "boring day at the hospital"...normally she tells me all about the patients she saw etc but there was just one small story today. She was so fun and bubbly and affectionate. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />