LL,
Its important to end all contact here. You can have the kids call him about their school issues or send messages through them. Maybe agree to an email in the case of emergency? People do this all the time, it is not impossible.

I don't know how you should get the letter to him but I would get it to him darn soon.He is already moving in with the manipulative comments like: "when are the D papers coming." Gotta stoke some guilt out of ya to keep ya in line just like a good alcoholic!

Email, that's the problem. He doesn't have a computer at his apartment. Only has his cell phone (and too cheap to add text msg).

And he is an auto technician for a very small shop. He has no email there either. (This always blows everyone's mind--they don't even have a computer in their office.) Actually his alignment machine runs off the only computer in the place, but it's not hooked to a phone line.

Gonna have to be either through the kids (and some things don't need to go through them) or by a phone call. Sorry...can't come up with anything better.

Okay, I'll work on how to give it to him. Do most deliver them in person?

LL, its gotta be through the kids then. You just cannot give this guy an inch or he will take a mile. One of the main purposes of no contact is to make you stronger once you are away from his manipulative influence.

That is another reason that I have emphasized getting into Alanon. Those ladies know EXACTLY what it is like and can give you much needed support. You could get a sponsor there who you could call and talk to when you feel weak.

But you just can't give him any opportunity to ease his way back in because he will try.

If you feel like you might cave when you hand him that letter, it might be better to just overnight it to his shop or something.

Well, I'm now packing a letter in my purse at all times. I changed a few sentences slightly (and darn it, I can't lie....I did allow for occasional phone contact to discuss kid transport issues and such (I know! I know! I KNOW!!!--just really don't see another way--kids aren't reliable messengers), but other than that and rearranging a few sentences which allowed me to delete some redundant stuff, it's back to the draft that MelodyLane reviewed and Ok'd.

Now...still working on the presentation. I do have his apartment address and could mail it there. I just don't know how often he checks his mail, and that seems rather cold. (I still feel guilty after 12 years about having divorce papers served on him as a surprise at work--though we did end up un-divorced.) I'll have to see if I have an opportunity to deliver in person, but will have to also make sure I'm feeling VERY STRONG.

I do want to get it to him yet this week. I think now that he knows something is coming, and I've tried to explain a little in words, that it's bad to delay because that itself is sort of LBing.

My evenings will be insane this week. Left work at 10pm again tonight, and other than tomorrow night, when I have a 4:30 therapy session so will be bringing work home (going to have my nails done after that...priorities, you know), I'll probably be doing the 10pm nights all week.

Do you think I should see if he's going to be available at his apartment some night (it's between work and home) and set a time to meet with him after work, or is that way too risky? I wouldn't have to worry about him not leaving, because I'd be the one to leave.

LL, I would just put it in overnight mail to his work. You are not sending divorce papers, you are sending a love letter. Why would you feel guilty about serving him divorce papers 12 years ago? He is the one who put you in that position and is the one who should feel guilty.

I thought your kids were teenagers? Why would you have to contact him about transport issues involving them? They are practically grown ups. Any contact with him is only going to endanger and weaken your position - and your credibility. He can easily pull you into a conversation if you are calling him, which basically ruins your position.

Or, put a sentence in your PBL that says something like: "you need to pick up DD every Thursday and I will pick her up every Mon and Wed." There has to be some way around this so that you aren't constantly jeopardizing your position.

The more contact he has with you, the more opportunities he has to manipulate you and play you like a fiddle. Which he has long, successful practice at doing.

I'm feeling fairly okay about the "occasional phone contact" to discuss kid issues. I know, not utter darkness, and that may well still have to come, but this is a big step from where we are right now and it takes the stress off of me of having to come up with a go-between, which is harder at this point to do than just do the phone contact. (Well, it'll BE a big step once I get it to him.)

Like I said, that's where I'm sort of hung up right now. I want to present it in a serious but caring way--not just dump it on him. But I don't want to start crying or something either. Working on that--still this week--is my plan.

LL,

The body count on this board is pretty deep for those who didn't find a way to do a complete and totally dark Plan B. There are too many ways to do this wrong. Only one way to do it right.

Find a way to go totally no-contact. If your daughter's life depended on it, you'd find a way. Your marriage has a life too - and right now it's on life-support. Critical care is needed. Now.

I'll think on the contact thing a little more.

Is it that my risk is getting pulled back in the relationship and not healing, or is it with him?

The problem with the kid communication thing is that S (17) is never home. Between girlfriend, work, school, school activities, and other friends, I see him rarely. The good thing is that he's an A-student, doesn't drink and doesn't smoke, so overall not much to worry about. Just totally unreliable where it comes to communicating anything to my WH because he's around so little. My budget can't afford him a cell phone (or D for that matter, or they'd both have one).

My D (14) is his complete opposite (and her father's image). Rebellious, stubborn, has been expelled from school and is now in alternative HS, takes off whenever she wants (if I'm not home) and leaves vague messages as to where she is. She has fairly severe ADHD. NO WAY he can communicate through her, but she's the one I still think it's important for him to have a relationship with. She's also the one with the transport issues because she can't drive, and there isn't bus transportation to the alternative school, and because the schedule there varies on certain days, there will be times when he has to do the pickups on Friday afternoon, though like I said, I won't know until the day before.

If he just had a computer w/email, it would be easier, but he doesn't.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong> I'm feeling fairly okay about the "occasional phone contact" to discuss kid issues.
I want to present it in a serious but caring way--not just dump it on him. But I don't want to start crying or something either. Working on that--still this week--is my plan. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LL, you might be ok with a half assed Plan B, but thats not how Plan B works. Really, you might as well not do it, especially in your situation. Hundreds of people have been in Plan B without contact by settling issues in the PBL or having the kids call about transport. Its not that hard to manage.

The Plan B letter is intended to be mailed, not discussed or ceremoniously presented. The letter says it all for itself. Mailing it or having it delivered - not personally - conveys the start of Plan B and expresses its seriousness. Doing it in person sort of belies the entire point because it breaking no contact.

Holy Mackeral!

I was away, and was sure this letter got sent/delivered. Imagine my surprise!

LL, Mel is right. There are no presentation skills required, or acting skills, or emotional control skills for the Plan B letter to be delivered to a WS. In fact, I feel it is far better for you NOT to be even visible when he receives it. It's too easy for you both to get into an emotional exchange and that is the last thing you want.

Rather, you have to let the Plan B letter speak for you. That is why it is so important that it convey the correct thoughts, feelings, and boundaries, and do so in a loving tone. That's why so many ask for help with their PBLs.

Now you have the makings of a good letter. We've all helped you to write it. Now comes the hard part. Take a deep breath, and send it via Airborne, FedEx, or an independent courier, to his work. You do not want to present it, you do not want to be there.

LL, let the Plan B letter do its job. You need to back away and let the MB concepts take over. You need it - for you.

Be tough. You can do this.

Come on guys. It's at least a 3/4-assed Plan B...

You don't know my daughter. If transportation is left up to her, I have no confidence she'll be at home at all.

I saw my IC tonight, and showed him the letter. He was very impressed (so the credit goes to all of you). He said it's taken some people a year to make the changes I've made since he started seeing me in early December (I've gone from jumping in the car each night he didn't call me on time and driving by OW's house over and over to where I am now. It is a big change.)

He does understand WH's situation with alcohol because he specializes in substance abuse (WH was seeing him, too, independently, but quit) AND because he himself had a drinking problem when he was in his 20's and his wife threw him out and told him he wasn't coming back home until he quit. He's still with her and I'd guess he's around 50 now. He's actually a very good therapist because he doesn't mince words and he offers constuctive advice. Met him through D's mediation meeting with school because he works some with the alternative school.

I may quit seeing my other IC because I frankly think she's worthless. All she does is listen to me and take notes, say a couple words, and send me on my way. And besides, I have to pay to see her, and this guy I get to see for free through the school because the original setup was to stabilize the family to help my D.

(I'm getting off-topic)

Anyway, I wasn't trying to make getting the letter to WH a big production, but I wasn't sure the best way. I'd like to leave him with the best feelings I can leave him. Having it come to his shop, and having one of the nosey office women open it (and they would...it's a little family business except for him and one other employee) is not a good way to start.

I could mail it to his apt, but I'd never be sure if or when he got it. At this point, he knows something is coming--just not exactly what it says. I left a message asking if he was available tonight but he's not (my guess..it's taxi night). He still wants to meet me tomorrow night after his seminar on my side of town, and I told him I still have no guarantee what time I'm off work. I'd rather do it on his territory (his apartment-so I'm the one leaving) than on mine.

Okay, so let's say this...he WILL HAVE IT SOMETIME BEFORE THIS WEEKEND, ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. I mean that!

And I'm still thinking and praying on the contact piece. I just wish SO much I had an old junk computer he could take for email. That would be much safer because there is no risk of conversation. I suppose I could put in my letter I'll cut the support payments back by $5 or $10 per month if he will add text messaging to his cell phone, and put in there that we can still use that means to contact if necessary? (I'm not very creative--I really struggled to come up with this idea.)

But you guys, seriously, when I say occasional I do mean occasional. And even if I leave it via phone, it would give me a little time to figure out all the logistics without having to wait another three weeks on the letter.

So, you have yet another night to hammer away at me with your opinions (I say that in a caring way---I do very much value all your input).

I'd REALLY like for tomorrow to be the delivery day--it's making me very tense the way things stand right now.

LL

<small>[ February 24, 2004, 07:57 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>