Ok, For those who have read my update to yesterdays thread I have a question. My BS never really said she wanted a D other than the morning I pushed her one week after disclosing the A. With the way I've been behaving I've cornered her and pushed her to where she is now actually talking about the divorce and how we plan to frame it.

I know that I've pushed her here with my own actions and behavior. Is it to late? With the possibility of there being an OM and an A currently going on, Have I pushed things to far? How do I stop our marriage from going over the edge of the cliff and falling into divorce? This mornings self-review has scared me because I see more and more into how and why I've been screwing up even though I want to save my marriage. Advice please, comments welcome, prayers needed.

-2soon

wise2...

Can you begin to spend short time periods with her in which you meet her needs and quit acting like a control wiz...

Can you call her on the phone and tell her look I don't want to divorce you...
can you swallow your pride enough.
or face the rejection..
she told you that a couple of times...
and you answered her with doubt and anger..

can you stop all chaos in all interactions...
and make changes and stick to them....
can you get over the fact she may have/be having an affair...??????

cease all discussions on your end about divorce and turn all discussions she brings up about divorce towards reconcilliation..
do that without powerstruggling
do that without blame
do that without argueing...
can you pursue her in a non creepy stalker type of way.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

ark

On a side note and something that I want to ask. Its been suggested here and by my IC that I try to get her to come back to MC. Its been tossed back and forth that I ask her or ask the MC to ask on my behalf to come back to counselling as on my own I am causing more harm than good.

Thoughts?

-2soon

Ark,

Thank you for posting. I don't know about the whole spending time together thing. We live in seperate counties right now and its about an hour drive from where I live now to where we lived together. It makes it hard that she does not want me around, or at least that is what I perceive. I'm not welcome in her house. I do not know how to spend time with her as I have no clue as to how to ask. I have told her that I do not want a divorce. I am working on letting go of control.

Ark, what did you mean by this?

can you swallow your pride enough.
or face the rejection..
she told you that a couple of times...
and you answered her with doubt and anger..

I'm not getting what you're trying to say in this. Just really tired and sick today and not getting what you're trying to communicate.

-2soon

The hour away and all that other crap..thats just an excuse...
even your perception of she doesn't want you around...though it may be true that she doesn't want your poor behavior around....if you change your behavior and show her glimpse of you and your new changes...

you two once cared enough about eachother to date and marry...

If you don't want a divorce how can spending time together be a bad thing..or not right...


God, you wanna get her attention...drive an hour to just bring her a favorite dessert or something...leave it with her mom somewhere safe or whatever...so it's not viewed as checking up on her...

invite her out for coffee...on a afternoon...
take a day off work for an afternoon and ask her to lunch...

the other part is wise2 is my dissappointment in your recent confessions of behavior...threatening never to see the kids again..

early on in this...when you were the one to have moved out...before you had learned of her possible EA/PA..(emotional affair/physical affair)
she would tell you things like she loved you..
and she didn't want a divorce...

she told you these things in your earlier posts and you responded with doubts and game playing...

now perhaps it's your turn to say these things...and expect to initially get doubts and game playing...
it is all a risk....

funny we risk saying the most hateful and hurtful things to one another...and yet hold back on risking to say the important things that must be and should be said...out of fear of ourselves being hurt....yet we don't worry so much hurting others...
hmmmmmmmmm <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I don't think you shoud bring up MC counselling ..it sounds so artificial when you two can barely be civil to one another...
can you work on just being her friend..\
start with phone calls...
attemtp to make short times to see her...

don't tell me about the travel when dating I would have driven hours to see my boyfriend...and vica-versa...

I'm sorry you feel ill today...

ark..

Ark, thanks for your words. I guess I'm at the stage where the WS is feeling they've done to much. I do apologize for not seeing my continuation of behaviors that are hurtful and being honest about them here.

Good point on the MC.

I will try to do some of the things you mentioned. Let me ask you something Ark. I never knew till just now that you were female till I saw your reference to driving to see your boyfriend. I don't know if you are WS or BS either. But what you've said in your responses has always stuck home with me.

I'm willing to admit that I'm scared to death of rejection when it comes to asking her to do anything with me or to allow me to do something for her. I know I've pushed her to the point to where she is talking about D and actually sayin it whereas I was the one saying it in my manipulative control efforts.

Before I saw your post Ark I had called out and left a message asking who would have the kids tonight so I could call and talk to them. I was actually relieved when the answering machine picked up. I'm scared to make things worse. So I left a message asking where the kids would be and at the end of it I said I miss you and I would talk to her later.

I've stopped saying I love you because she's asked me to stop saying it. As such I've replaced it with saying I miss you. I mean the same thing when I say "I miss you". Another thing she said to me this past week was that she did not want me to love her any more.

I did send the gift I had gotten for valentines out to her. She loves these collectable bears (Boyds Bears) and I got her a Mother bear holding a baby with two other kid bears, 2 boys one girl. When I sent this stuff out I had also sent presents I sent for our children. When she and I spoke later I asked if the kids liked their gifts and she said "Of course, they love them." I asked if she liked the bears I got for her and she started to cry and say that she did like them.

So I guess I will start with phone calls and move on from there to unexpected trips out to deliver something nice to both her and the kids. I don't know what else to do. I'm really scared.

-2soon

Tell her you love her! Tell her as much as you can, whenever you feel it and whenever you cant think of anything else to say to her. And dont just say 'i love you', tell her how much you love her, how you would do anything for her and to have her back loving you again. Tell her until shes tired of hearing it, then tell her some more.

Think of ways to show her this love every day, the sorts of things you would have done in the early days of your relationship. Think of how you felt for her on your wedding day, recapture those feelings and behave towards her as you did then.

Listen to ark, and show your wife that you put her needs above all else. Show her how much you care for your children.

I can tell you essentially have the right inclinations here, just dont screw up again.

Sending my love

Let me ask you something Ark. I never knew till just now that you were female till I saw your reference to driving to see your boyfriend. I don't know if you are WS or BS either.

that's IT!!!!
You have to change your name to NOTSOwise2.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
for some strange reason once a week I get confused with being from MARS>...THANKGOD it's only in cyber space...cause if it was in real time...then I would really have problem... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Is it my really bad spelling??
Or is it just my nick?

I also am neither BS or WS which makes me feel sometimes like a traitor as I post here mostly on the infidelity board...but I am also free of triggers from which some BS/WS often encounter..and therefor can hang on to some objectivity.
Been married twelve years to Mr. ARK who really is a great guy and three kids the oldest being six!!

As I have said before on this board if I had taken a role as offerred here..I most likely would have gone the WS way...Not out of anything Mr. Ark was doing...but out of my own sense of warped entitlement...

I was dramatic and selfish...and good at breaking glass-ware....I played the I'm so unhappy and we should just divorce card way too many times to not still feel twinges of guilt and roll my eyes about who I used to be...

I am the greatest believer in people can and do change...because I have..
and have been blessed enough with a husband who always believed in the bigger picture...and rarely got to sucked into my drama....
he's a smart one...

I hold marriages..mine and others to have great value in the universe...and something worth living up to...and will never buy into if others don't take it seriously why should "you" "we" or "I'

too cherish one another is the most under-rated vow...and people should relfect more on what it means and what its action is...

and just the fact that I blathered on and on...and you have probably tuned out the second paragraph....PROVES I am still a resident of venus....

I love you is a tricky thing..it can sound hollow and meaningless..but the motivation to speak or not speak should not be based on her saying it or not...
see wise2..that's a mistake we make in relationship...we get so caught up in even-steven type of things...and sometimes we only say and do for our spouses based on getting the exact and only acceptable response we want...

well if I take the garbage out for him this week...who is to say he won't expect me to do it next week...
Or if I am affectionate to her with a back rub..what if she doesn't have sex with me...
to much of that in marriages...

people need to learn to give of themselves without strings attached with no expectations of anything in return...OR expect rejection and when you get something different it can only be a good thing....

married people spend to much time not saying the important things....

let go of the fear of rejection there will be days she rejects you...just as you have done to her...and there will be days she is receptive...it's always a risk...

boyd bears are adorable...good move...(see girlie girl here)...

ark

Thanks Ark,

Let me end it today with a plea for those who are spiritually inclined to pray for my darling children and my beloved BS. After you're done praying for them, please say a quick one for me.

-2soon

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess I'm at the stage where the WS is feeling they've done to much. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay let me say this most divorces that occur fairly early after an affair is discovered are filed by the WS because they believe they have damaged the marriage beyond repair....almost 2 to 1 in fact.

If you have even remotely convinced yourself that you've done too much then you will act like it subconciously.

You need to make plain and clear to her that you understand she has the right to leave you.

But.....

That you will wait for however long it takes her to make up her mind. And while waiting you will do everything you can to make her love you again and restore the feelings you once had.

May suggest something. Why don't you tell something about why you fell in love with her that you have never disclosed.

Did you almost ask her out long before the first time you ever did?

Was something she said or did that convinced you you loved her but you waited later on to tell her?

Or heck even tell her what you were thinking just before you were married....assumming its not "Oh chit whay have I got myself into!"

In other words let her see deep inside you. Try and remind her of how not only you first felt but how she made you feel when she how she felt.

Tell her about the wonder of your first child. Your fears and hopes of being a good father. Your pride in seeing her be a good mother.

Talk to her man relate to her connect to her don't try to force issues or be in control.

Your straying made her see you as less of a person you have to remind her that the sum of who you are is not just the one mistake.

Stunned dad, you are very romantic. I hope your wife hears such wonderful things on a regular basis! If she does she is a very lucky woman.

You definitely have not done too much! Keep trying and dont give up. If you truly mean what you tell us, and keep trying to convince her, im sure she will have confidence in you eventually.

Thinking of you and wishing you the best

Stunned dad, you are very romantic.

yup...that's how it works around here..

stunned dad is romantic... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

and I'm just once again...one of the guys...


<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ark

I think ark is going to get a serious complex if people keep thinking she is a man! lol