Do you think that sometimes the OP could be better or how many times does it actually happen that the WWS leaves for the OP and ends up happy? My husband said last night that OW said to him that sometimes people are in relationships and are trying hard to make it work when they really should be with the OP, the one who really makes them happy, but they can't. This is very confusing to me.

Does it really happen often that when two people meet like this way and have a relationship that they end up happy together afterwards? I always thought that it is difficult to build a good relationship when it is based on deceipt and another person gets betrayed and hurt, but I'm not so sure anymore.

I also do not know if I believe in soulmates anymore. Is there really such thing? I used to think that my husband was my soulmate, somebody that I could completely trust with all my little worries and fears and thoughts, but now I find myself holding back many times out of fear of saying something needy or wrong that might draw him closer to OW again. This cannot be a good thing.

My best friend had an A about two years ago. I knew she was unhappy in her M and I continued to encourage her to work on it. Unbeknownst to me she had a EA and PA with a married man who had four small children. She divorced her husband to be with OM. Well, it didn't work out. After she had her own place and they were able to be together without interruption and deceipt, it didn't last long. Three months later, they broke off. She is very depressed and sad and alone now. Sometimes I wonder if this is common in relationship that result out of an A or can people really be happy and build a solid trusting relationship? My relationship with my best friend has been very strained since all of this happened. Maybe it is because I've been on the other side.....

I'd like to hear other's thoughts about this.

Kati

Kati

I don't believe that a relationship can become something beautiful and fullfilling when it is built on a lies and betrayal.

Something that starts this way gives the involved people nothing to look back at and feel prowd about.
And neither do I believe that "betrayers" that have gotten married are really prowd about themselves and are able to tell others what good lyers they were when they met???

I can't imagine that and the statistics say the same.

bb

Kati,

I'm in my second marriage, and I'm married to the OP. We've been married a little over 7 years, together almost 9. It's currently a rocky marriage but overall a LOT better than my first.

I think that in most cases if a WP leaves their spouse to be with the OP, the affair relationship ends -- just like your best friend's experience. That is because most affairs are based on the WP telling themselves that their spouse doesn't understand them, that the OP is perfect for them, and a lot of other things that can't hold up under the light of long term reality. One excuse after another. The WP fails to examine their own part in the demise of the M and sees the OP as the perfect easy cure.

In my case, I had already tried everything in my old M and was only waiting for the cars to be paid off etc. so I could afford to leave. I'd explained to my ex-H clearly for almost three years that I was unhappy and why, and that our marriage was in jeopardy. He chose not to listen and in fact increased his problematic behavior. I asked my ex-H to go to counseling and he refused. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I became so depressed that I was not a good parent and my job was suffering. Some people would have stayed married for show but I could/did not. So, my marriage was over except for the finances when I met my current H.

The timing was awful; I wish I'd taken more time to be on my own (I took a year and a half) and I wish I'd dated more. I needed that for my own personal healing after my D. Still and all, my current M is as good as any first M, I think.

Usually I think things turn out as they did for your friend. In some cases the original M really *is* over and one of the parties simply does not care to pick up any of the pieces.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OW said to him that sometimes people are in relationships and are trying hard to make it work when they really should be with the OP, the one who really makes them happy, but they can't. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is a load of hogwash. If a person is trying hard to make it work, there is no OP. Period. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Very few times would a long term relationship with OP work out. An affair exists in an artificial world where there are no responsibilities. You have 2 or 3 hours with OP during an encounter, and you don't spend that time talking about problems. There are no bills to pay (other than the hotel bill), no kids to raise, no in-laws to appease. The biggest problem is where to go f*** next. You know very little about OP other than her favorite position.

When you take the WS and OP and put them in the "real" world, the chances of that relationship succeeding are pretty small. They really don't know each.

E.g., I did not knew what kind of ice cream OW liked, whether she liked mustard on her hot dog, whether she prefersed roses or daisies, what she was like when she is sick, what she would be like when I'm sick, how my friends would like her, how my family would like her, etc. In retrospect, the concept that OP was my "soulmate" was ridiculous.

The other obstacle to a successful relationship is obvious. Before the A, WS and BS had some problems. Rather than deal with the problems and improve the M, WS ran off with OP. Guess what? WS and OP will have problems--that is the way life is. WS still doesn't have the skills to deal with problems, so there could be another A or WS could just "tough it out" and be miserable.

You cannot make WS happy. OP cannot make WS happy. Only WS can make WS happy. The only way for WS to have a successful M is him/her to change, not to change spouses. Unless WS does that, he/she is doomed.

Wow, Jimmy! That was pretty powerful. My husband oftens says to me that when he emails these sweet nothings with OW, it is an escape from reality for him. He would sit at the computer, drink wine, eat chocolate and just 'talk'. He said that our lives at home have become so routine with bills, chores, jobs, stress etc. that talking to OW takes his mind off and just lets him forget things for a while.

I have worked hard in the last eight months to make things better at home. I'm a very sexual person and that is one part that is still very good between us and seems to be something that we both enjoy. He says he likes that I'm aggressive and outgoing and take charge. But still he cannot free himself of OW. She needs him and he said that she was there for him during the dark times and he cannot just drop a friend like that.

Sometimes I wonder what it would be like if he were with her instead of me. With me he can pretty much live carefree. I take care of everything, the house, the bills, the chores. Maybe this was a mistake from the start. Maybe I should have been more needy and dependent on him. He seems to like that he can give advice to others with problems. He even thought about becoming a psychologist/therapist. My husband is very friendly and very easy to talk to and many women are drawn to him because of this. He says that OW always tells him that she likes his personality and how he lifts her up and makes her feel good. But would this be enough to sustain a long-term relationship?

Kati

GRRRR. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Kati,

I have to say that your posts have been very frustrating for me.This is a first for me too.I see that your WH is feeding you more ridiculous lines and you just take them in and ponder them.WHY??? Has this man given you anything to think about besides his own self centered feelings and that of OW? NO.And this OW is extremely conniving if what your WH says is true.And she is going to be married soon? Ugh.

Does none of this strike you as wrong? The most that I have heard from you is that you are depressed and weak.I am waiting for you to get angry but it's not happening.Do you not wish for the love and respect you deserve? Are you willing to settle for this dual life your WH has been leading? I don't mean to offend you but I am having a hard time with the inaction here.Your quote, "Maybe I should have been more needy or dependent on him"....WHY? Would that make him give up OW and come to your "rescue"? I think not.

O

Octobergirl,

It is all wrong and it is all bad and I'm mad as hell and I don't know what's wrong with me and why I can't do it. Kick his a.. out the door! I don't understand myself. I'm angry with myself. I want to go home. My Mom just called me and told me that my father is having heart problems. I wish that I would have never told them about my problems. Now I feel guilty. I need to deal with my own s... and not ask for support anymore. It was a mistake getting others involved in my mess.

I can't even think straight right now. I haven't eaten in four days and I feel lightheaded and dazed. I feel like I'm going to pass out any second.

Why does he not just leave and be with her? Then everything would be solved. Honestly, I don't think that she is engaged. I think she may have a boyfriend if that at all. Who cares....

Kati

KATI,KATI,KATI!

I just want to reach through my computer and hug you! I am so sorry about your dad.Do you really think he is having heart trouble because of what you told him? I sincerely hope not! Oh dear.

Listen,I am glad you are mad.It is NOT about WH anymore! Your life is about you now and what are you going to do about your life? You cannot change anyone but *yourself.So you have to ask yourself what do you want in this life? Forget about the cake eater right now.Make some deicisons for you.YOU MUST TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF.I am worried about you.You have to eat.Are you taking any antidepressants?

Let me tell you,everything would NOT be solved if your WH left the OW.He has his own set of inner demons to deal with.If this OW is gone then there might be another unless he gets HELP himself.

I would like to see you take some time over the next few days and start a journal.Begin writing down your thoughts and what you want in this life for YOU,1,5 10 years down the road.Where do you see yourself at these times? What will be your plans be? There's a process to all this and I know it will be hard for you but start at the beginning by thinking about what you want and need,not what your WH is doing.ok?

O

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I also do not know if I believe in soulmates anymore. Is there really such thing? I used to think that my husband was my soulmate, somebody that I could completely trust with all my little worries and fears and thoughts </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Kati, I used to believe in soulmates. In almost every Xmas, birthday, Valentines, father's day and anniversary card she wrote, she referred to us as "soulmates". Of course, that was before I knew about her multiple affairs, and before she finally told me that we never had true emotional intimacy and never felt she could share the deepest part of her feelings with me, and instead shared it with other men. Don't know how two people can be soulmates in such a situation.

One of the many things that has bugged me in the last number of months, since we split up, was whether or not I would be able to trust the next woman I'm with. I'm not sure that's going to be a problem anymore. But, I do know this... I'm definitely going to have my guard up as soon as the next woman utters the word "soulmate".

To me it's a meaningless word, made up by some overpaid hack at Hallmark. Maybe I'm just bitter, but it seems to me like a catch-all, coverup word: "It doesn't matter if I keep my vows because I my spouse knows we're SOULMATES!" What a crock.

Octobergirl,

I tried to eat some, but it all comes out again. Even the crackers. I just can't keep it down. I do drink water though, so I hope that's good. I do not take any antidepressants. I have never taken anything like that and I'm not sure if I want to. I would be concerned about side effects. I will go to the gym tonight. It feels good when I run.

My Dad is in poor health and I told my Mom not to talk to him about it, but she did. I'm a Daddy's Girl and I know that it tears up my Dad and that is why I never ever tell them anything, but yesterday I had to talk to someone. My parents want me to come home. They worry about me. It's just not that easy and also I feel like I am an adult. I cannot just run home when things get rough. My Dad went to the Cardiologist. His bloodpressure is high and they gave him new meds. Hopefully they will help him. I'm concerned about him.

My husband sometimes says that he is not a good person. His Dad cheated on his Mom as well and left her with six children, never to be seen or heard from again. This really crushed him and he still deals with this. I know that he has many inner demons; he often tells me that he feels strange etc. I feel helpless that I cannot help him. You misunderstood my post. I wondered before what would it be like if he just left me for the OW and be with her? Sometimes I wonder why he has not done that. He's been in contact with her since 1995.

What do I want out of life? Well, I want to be loved and respected and I would love nothing more than have a baby of my own. I know it was not possible before because of my problems, but that is all over now. He says that he really wants to have a child with me. This is what is SO hard for me to hear. He knows how much I want to be a Mom. Most of our friends have small children and it breaks my heart when I see them. Sometimes I worry that I will never have a child of my own.

I would also love to go back to school and continue my education. It is just so difficult to concentrate on anything right now.

It is coincidental that you brought up the journal part. My husband often brings me little gifts - flowers, chocolate, a book etc. Just a few days ago, he bought me a journal. He said that it would be good if I started writing my feelings and thoughts in it.

Kati

Kati,

I hesitate to ask but I am concerned for you.Do you have an eating disorder? I wonder because when you say you try to eat but then it "comes back out again" I wonder if you can keep anything down and why if not,you can't.I have to repeat that any strenuous exercise coupled with a lack of caloric intake can be harmful to your health.I'm sure you already know this.

I'm not sure where I misunderstood your post but what I would like to see you do is turn your attention away from the WH and OW to yourself.Stop thinking what if's and think what is.You want to have a baby which I can understand completely but do you think that would help matters at this point? Do you think that,given the way your WH treats you now,that he wouldn't continue with that treatment and possibly even have less interest in your child? Would that be fair to the child to bring him/her into this world with a pre-set amount of problems already going on? Do you not think that YOU and this would be child deserve a man/father that puts his family first rather than his own desires?

If there ever was a "ticking bilogical clock" it is ticking right now,not because of your age but because each minute,day,week,month that you let pass maintaining this charade of a marriage,is less time you have to give to yourself and a child and to have that opportunity.Now I'm not saying that it couldn't ever be with your current WH but that could not even be a possibility until you put the pressure on and make WH realize he cannot have two women in his life as such.

You've stated that you already do all the household "chores" and I could bet that the caretaking of your new baby would be one more responsibility that you would find yourself without the necessary support.

Regarding the anitdepressants.I take Remeron and I have had no side effects and believe me,being an RN and also being a person that doesn't like to take Tylenol if I can help it,I was very apprehensive about taking anything but they really helped me and still do.I'm not sure if you need to be on them since I am not your doctor but you might consider them if you are clinically depressed.If you are not sleeping,eating or functioning well during the day then it's worth an evaluation.

Lastly,based on what you have mentioned to us,your WH is a smooth character.The journal was a nice touch."Here Honey,a journal for you to write all your troubles in,just to make you feel better about my continued EA with the OW".He's doing a wonderful job at keeping you comfortable at home and the bribes are working so far.

O

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jimmy Mac:
<strong> Very few times would a long term relationship with OP work out. An affair exists in an artificial world where there are no responsibilities. You have 2 or 3 hours with OP during an encounter, and you don't spend that time talking about problems. There are no bills to pay (other than the hotel bill), no kids to raise, no in-laws to appease. The biggest problem is where to go f*** next. You know very little about OP other than her favorite position.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're making the assumption that all affairs are about sex. It may sound silly, but I guess my affair started because I found someone that was actually interested in the same types of (non-sexual!) "recreational companionship" - we enjoyed doing the same things.

Octobergirl,

I do not think that I have an eating disorder. I normally eat very well and healthy. I'm actually a good eater; always finish my plate, but in the last two weeks I just haven't been feeling myself and I have absolutely no appetite, no interest in food. In fact in makes me sick thinking about it. I will get through this, believe me. I've always been exercising and it is the only thing right now that keeps me feeling good.

My husband says that having a child with me would help him and it would change things. He says that he is tired of people asking all the time and he was angry at me and other for many years because it was not his fault that we did not have any children; it was because I had vaginismus. I feel so guilty about having put him through this turmoil for so many years. I went to uncountable doctors, but never got much advice other than drink a glass of wine and relax. Well, it wasn't that easy. But that is over now and I've been a normal functioning woman for more than two years now. He always tells me that if I give him a baby, then he would not have time think about all this other stuff. He wants something to take his mind off. BTW, he bought me a dog about three years ago and he completely and totally adores this dog. He does everything for this dog. Even though he does not help at home, he goes out of his way to see that the dog is taken care of. He treats the dog better than me. ;-)

I think one of the problems with me not getting pregnant anyway is that I have this inner mental block right now because somehow I know that it probably is not right. It just hurts so much.

I'm must stunned that I would pick such a 'smooth' person as my husband. Could I have really been so blind? My husband is liked by everybody, all my friends, my co-workers, my family. How could I have been so wrong?

I will phone my doctor about the antidepressants and make an appointment. Thanks for the tip!

Kati

Originally posted by Kati:

I tried to eat some, but it all comes out again. Even the crackers. I just can't keep it down. I do drink water though, so I hope that's good. I do not take any antidepressants. I have never taken anything like that and I'm not sure if I want to. I would be concerned about side effects.

Antidepressant side effects won't be nearly as detrimental to you as starvation, sleep deprivation and stress vomiting!

I will go to the gym tonight. It feels good when I run.

If you run while starving your body you can stress your kidneys. The muscles break down if you run and don't eat, thus proteins form in your urine .... not good.


I wondered before what would it be like if he just left me for the OW and be with her? Sometimes I wonder why he has not done that. He's been in contact with her since 1995.

She represents something other than a partner/wife to him. A side-dish .... not the main course.

Do you think you might have an eating disorder?

Pep

daoren - if being married meant nothing to you the first time, why did you bother to get married to your affair partner?

What sense does THAT make?

Kati,

I am glad that you have asked these questions because I wondered the same thing. My WH says the same thing. That she is his soulmate because he can talk to her and he couldn't talk to me. He says I would never understand, but he has never tried to help me understand either. My WH said I am sorry I never opened up to you like I should have and I was like okay well why not start now. He said because he is in love with OW now, no sense in it. I know he isn't in love, but I think that he will stay with her anyway because he feels so guilty about what he has done here. Even if he wanted to come home...he wouldn't and I know it. He is too embarrassed to even ask. I also wonder how long their relationship will last because like someone else said right now it is just sex and fun and lots of lovin. But when they get together and he is paying me all of his check and they have two boys around the same age that fight and everything else, plus me to deal with it won't be so much fun. Plus his mother already told me she would have a very hard time dealing with her because of what she did to her grandsons family. It will be interesting to see how long it lasts in the real world. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Kati:
<strong> My best friend had an A about two years ago. I knew she was unhappy in her M and I continued to encourage her to work on it. Unbeknownst to me she had a EA and PA with a married man who had four small children. She divorced her husband to be with OM. Well, it didn't work out. After she had her own place and they were able to be together without interruption and deceipt, it didn't last long. Three months later, they broke off. She is very depressed and sad and alone now. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your friend has an A with a married man who has four children. She is to put it quite frankly a HomeWrecker (along with her married man). What did she expect? Did she expect somebody to pin a medal on her?

She is depressed and sad. My reaction is - So What? What about the wife of her lover? What about the children of her lover? Did she not intentionally do things that made them depressed and sad? Remember, she had a choice, they did not not. She could have chosen to avoid the affair. They had the affair thrust into their lives, like it or not.

Your husband sounds like a firstclass cake eater. And the cake he is being fed is pretty good stuff! Where do I apply for that job? I would very much like a sexy wife, who takes care of my needs, and at the same time allows me to each chocolates and carry on with another woman. What a life!

If you marriage is getting stale try spending more time together doing fun things. Forget the weekend chores. Take off someplace interesting. Have some fun.

And tell him he must stop all contact with the OW. Period. Or let the OW take care of him. Do you think she can do for him what you are doing?

<small>[ March 04, 2004, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: JustinExplorer ]</small>

I have to add one more thing to this soulmate nonsense. My WW literally spent years transfering more and more of her life, her interests, her desires to her relationship with the OM. Now VultureMan is her soulmate. DUH!

She MADE him her soulmate, by intentionally cutting herself off from me and devoting more and more time and energy to him. They traded love poems daily via e-mail. I was lucky to get one or to poems a month. She bought sexy underwear for her time with him. I got the old nighty.
While I was home taking care of the kids, she would travel on business and meet him in fancy resorts and lovely bed and breakfast houses.

The more I tried to reengergize our marriage the more indifference I ran into. You see she focused on him, not me. If they were soulmates it is because she chose to stop being my wife and be his soulmate.

That is not much of a reason to commit adultry.

I think for me, the real kicker is the dishonesty involved.
If a spouse goes off to work one day, feels attracted to a coworker, maybe even acts on it, but has alarm bells go off, and works to straighten out their life...
I think well enough of that person, because they're human, but they're trying.
The people I don't understand are the ones who have assignations for YEARS and go home and sleep with the spouse, then go to the hotel and sleep with the OP, then go home again and pretend everything is normal.
That's so damaging to everyone involved. Not really the interest in the other person that started it, because we're just human. But the living a lie, making other people live a lie.

Perhaps the people with long-running affairs who marry the affair partner, see those marriages fail, because they have been through YEARS of living a lie, and their hearts are just damaged by it. I would imagine it's hard to trust anyone when you've lied about your actions, your heart and soul, for years.

Lil

I agree totally with you. I found a letter that OW wrote my WH and it said "the first night we met you said you weren't sure you wanted out of what you were into" meaning our marriage. So after 6 months of lying to me and sleeping with us both and me not knowing anything I find out. I wonder why he didn't say no, if he was smart enough to atleast say that to her. I wish he just had enough of whatever it would have taken to say no. And so does he, he said so. But he is in too deep now. I don't see an end in sight at this point.