Kily -- good luck to you. You may indeed be able to clear the air... if he can somehow begin to move toward the clarity you now have.

If not, well, I suspect you'll end up doing a lot of listening and arm's-length observation of a man who's in a very bad state.

All you can offer him at this point, I suspect, is the compassion that one human has for another, when one sees another in a very bad place. Be gentle, be kind, and be absolutely clear in your boundaries. Know in your heart that you have not created his nightmare. If there is anything in you that wants to help him end that nightmare, say so... and be clear that he is the architect of it, and you want to know exactly what he's going to do to get there.

I agree with 2long and Orchid about the wedding comments. What a hoot - this would make a good comedy program - in fact, it has made a good one for those that know the story.


I went to talk with the court investigator in a marathon 1 on 1 session that lasted about 3 1/2 hours...I was so exhausted when I left there.

I feel for you, it does take a lot out of a person. I think it is more difficult than many understand.

I was VERY surprised by her response. She said to me that X with held a lot of information - like my depression - from her and she was very concerned about it. Her thoughts were that this was pretty important details that really defined why I made certain choices, and his omitting them created a VERY different picture than what she got from talking with me. She will be calling him back in for another 1 on 1 to address all of this with him.

This does not surprise me, it is the way he is doing things - only give information that makes HIM look good, and YOU look bad. If you give her ALL the info, it makes you look honest, and him look dishonest.

The second key thing she said to me, and I think all of you here will understand the magnitude of her words, was:

"I'm not defending affairs at all. I do feel however that when there is a lack of emotional support, that people will seek it elsewhere. I see why it happened, and now I understand where your motives were when all of this transpired."

WOW! That was so BIG.

It must feel good ..... to finally be understood. And even better that it is someone in the system. I am glad there was a change from the other "team" and I am glad that there really are some good people working in the system.


4. i showed her a sampling of the emails that I had received over the last two years. She said to me: "I now understand why you don't speak to him....

Another big one - I am so glad you showed them to her. She sees the big picture now, and that is what you needed.


I forgot to mention that when I was talking about my life spiraling and how I got to a place where I crashed and had to heal..her comment blew in my doors. She recognized what I saw but didn't have the esteem in myself to believe...She believes X is now where I was three years ago...spinning out of control and looking for the magic thing to fix him. He simply doesn't see it.
That is easy to see, but the hard question is what to do about it. I don't believe there is much you can do at this point - along the lines of "you can't teach unless there is a student in the room." He (up to this point anyway) has not been even close to being a student.

Maybe I'm not as messed up and inhuman as he'd like me to believe I am.

SEE, WE WERE RIGHT ABOUT YOU ALL ALONG.

You will get to the point where what he does and says won't affect you, but that is still a ways off. HOWEVER, you are doing MUCH BETTER.

I read all your posts, and I usually say something like: "She is doing so well, she has come so far.

Well, I did wince when I read your reply(s) to GF, but on the whole you are doing well.

You seem more balanced, less ...... less..... what's the word - Less worried? not so troubled?

Anyway, you are doing lots better. It is very plain to see that. I know you still have things you think about, I hope - and I believe the truth (how good you really are) comes easier to you now, and I hope you know who you are and where you are going.

Do you still feel like you are spinning your wheels? Or do you feel as though you are getting somewhere now?

How is the job search coming? - You know, as I think about it, you would tell us if there were a change - but I had to ask. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Hope the boys are doing well, and that their mother is happy, and actually has lots of fun as she goes along. Life should be fun, not just avoiding pain. Are you there yet?

SS

Just J-

Thanks for the luck, but I didn't need it. He never showed!

I guess a settlement isn't really what's important to him.

I was having nightmares about their wedding. I feel like they dumped all of this "power" in my lap. In one dreamm, the preist asks if anyone has any reason why these two shouldn't marry speak now....then everyone turns to me and I'm rerally struggling with what I should do then I wake up.

I've not had any contact with either of them since that day. I actually like it that way. I really don't even want to waste my time thinking about it to tell you the truth.

I was pi$$ED though that hee schedules an appointmment then blows me off like that.


SS-
Hi!!!!

I guess this situation IS very comical to all in the know. I don't know if you remember my posting that I had a dream sometime last September maybe where they would be breaking up in the spring. You can imagine how I felt when I heard his message on the answering machine and had the flashback to my dream. It just reinforces that you have to listen to your inner voice.

I guess MB has helped me in some ways because I reeally felt I had no reason to lie about anything. I did what I did...I can't change who or what I was...I also can't change X. What I have changed is how I feel towards all of it. I've forgiven him for what he could not give me. I've forgiven me for what I could not give him. I don't NEED to have him acknowledge his part in this any longer in order for ME to feel better. I've reached a point in my healing where I am going back to revisit everything one more time. This time however, it's not to find fault or to blame...it's to release both him and myself. I want to free him from all of the expectatioins that I had that were unrealistic...I want to forgive myself for all of MY unrealistic expectations.

I simply look at this now as something that I HAD to go through in order to get to where I am today. I no longer attach judgement or feelings to it...I guess now, I simply cherish what I got from it and will move forward in a more healthy manner.

I guess all I ever wanted was for somemone to recognize that I REALLY did love him. I guess the hardest part for me is that he continues to want to see me as a monster that has a sole purpose of ruining his life. That is so completely wrong. I wanted thte best for both of us. Even now, I am saddened that WE couldn't heal together, but I hahve accepted his decisions.

I am glad that the investigator acknowledged my side. To this day I still find it hard to admit that I was being abused...I'm starting to see ot more clearly as his emails continue. At least I'm getting a aclear perspective of things now.

I forgot to mention that the investigator was OUTRAGED by the recommendations of the GROUP. I gave her BOTH letters that they drafted because I truly don't want to hide anything. She called me later to tell me that her superevisor was also upset. They are planning on doing a FULL INVESTIGATION on the group! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I also gave her permission to view the video tapes that they madae of mine an X's sessions. Maybe THAT will ALSO give her a clear perespective of things too.

As far as x's spiraling, it is his issue. I have offered my help, he has rejected me. all I can pray for is that at some point tin time he get to a place where he also has clarity. Then maybe he will finally be able to forgive ME for all of HIS unspoken expectations. At that time, we might be able to be friends. Until then, I will not be having contact with him because I don't want to be the recipient of his abusive attitude.

The important thing that I realized though is that I do still love X...I'm just not in love with him... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Seriously, I love him enough to let him go. I realize that he is making the same choices that I did because his pain was to great. His choices now stem from running away and not facing pain. My heart understands this and does nont condmen him for being afraid. I epathize with that and hope that he will find his way in a less destructive way than I did. I let him go in love and wish thte best for him with whatever choices he makes. After all they are HIS mistakes to make, not mine. I have no right to be angry with him for making them.

Yes, I'm less worried, and less troubled. I am at peace much of the time. I am focused on healing me and the kids. They are doing great! My eldest hads made straight A's yet again (he's a sophmore in a Catholic preparatory high School).

Interestingly enough, the final piece to mmy forgiving myself happened in mass last sunday. It was the sermon where the villagers bring the adulterous womana to Jesus and they ask him what should be done...

What I took from that was very clear...I am forgiven because I have chosen to sin no more. To look back and condemn myself for those choices was wise because it brought me to understanding. To continue to live my life in reference to thoise choices is WRONG though. I have done what I have done. I have tried to make amends, and now I have to live my life not repeating those mistakes. They do NOT define who I am. I may be judged by my X, but it is NOT his job to judge me. Only one person can judge me and HE has forgiven me. I have forgiven me...

I no longer have to wear that scarlett A around my neck for all the world to see.

now I have to find a JOB! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Anyway, the investigator will be at my house at 2:30 today for the home visit. I'm nervous and I can't WAIT to get this over with.

I'm doing great. Hope you all are too.

The home visit will go just fine! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> There is nothing for you to worry about, b/c you have nothing to hide.

Continue taking care of you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Karen

Topie-

Thanks for your encouraging words. The visit did go suprisingly well. There was one moment though that brought my attention WAY up.

We were playing a board game - mousetrap - and during the game we all were very excited and talking quite loud. DS starts yelling at the top of his lungs:

"Okay everyone, I'm sick and tired of all of this fighting and arguing. Silence for 10 minutes!"

I was speeechless! I've NEVER said anything like that to him. The most I've done is remind him to use his inside voice and if he's too out there, to put him into "time out".

So now, not only am I thinking that I am going to be viewed as the originator of this type of punishing behavior, I'm mwowndeering WHO it is that is reprimandinig him in this way. I'mm certainly dissturbed by it.

Anyway, I received an interesting email from X yesterday...

You missed the last question below "Why are you treating me like this"? I think
I deserve the truth as to why you keep hurting me the way you do. What is the
real truth?

Are you mad at me for what could have been, for what we did have together?

You seem to keep saying that I made my "choice".

Do you want me to say I'm sorry for what could have been? I'm sorry for ignoring
your needs and it made you look elsewhere?

We'll I am sorry. But you have a lot of accountablity in your actions if you didn't get what you wanted out of life.

I'm sorry for everything we had together.......and lost. I'm sorry your so
bitter at me for not accepting it anymore.

**********

He wrotee this because I refuse to address anything other than DS issues in email. He's been very blaming and accuatory lately. He even has gone sso far as to say that i'm unhappy with my life and that is why I continue to "hurt" him.

As I recall, I'm mpretty much in NC and the only reason I'm "hurting" himm is because I refuse to give up my share of the house.

I do appreciate the apology, it really doesn't affect me either way these days...but I view this more as another manipulation...

Other views anyone?

I left off something from my last post to you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I read all your posts, and I usually say something like: "She is doing so well, she has come so far. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I left off saying - that because you are doing so well sometimes I go on past instead of posting to you. However, I could at least tell you what I think -

I know you can feel it for yourself, but it is easy to see that you continue to make big improvements.

No time now, but I'll come back.

Karen, (Topie) you are doing pretty well yourself. What do you do now when you have bad days? I don't see that it affects you nearly as much as it used to.

SS

<small>[ April 08, 2004, 10:11 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by still seeking:
<strong> Karen, (Topie) you are doing pretty well yourself. What do you do now when you have bad days? I don't see that it affects you nearly as much as it used to. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you so much for the compliment! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> It's nice when someone else can notice our emotional growth... even online.

I still need to vent things out. I don't come on here as much anymore, b/c some of the issues at hand are ones I'd rather keep more private, so I post elsewhere, and use my many resources and telephone contacts. I still find that talking/typing things out, helps me to process everything that's going on.

The boys are also older now, and better able to understand when I tell them, "Mommy needs a time out right now. I'm 31 years old, so I get 31 minutes to myself". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Okay... so I'm lucky if I get 3 straight minutes... but they get the point. LOL.

Okay... my humour is back too. Now that I'm far more detached from the crazy roller coaster ride, I'm more in control of my emotions, sanity, feelings, etc.

I've somehow managed to find peace in all of the crap I've been through in the last few years too. Ultimately, even though many outcomes have been unfavourable, I am at peace knowing that I did all I could do. I wish I could say how I found that peace... but I don't know. I haven't looked into that too much yet, b/c i haven't taken the time. Maybe that'll be this summer's task? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks for asking SS!

Karen

Karen, you really are doing better - and it is easy to see.

I hope you do take time out for yourself and also that you continue to study and learn. It is hard when there are children, especially when you are a single mom, but you need time to yourself - at least every once in a while. Time to think - time to relax - time to dream.

Now, I am not suggesting you ignore the needs of the kids, and you would not anyway - but see what you can do.

Kily, sorry if I hijacked your thread -

SS

<small>[ April 09, 2004, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Kily,

He may be hurting - But.........

There are lots of reasons why you can't help him. The most important is that he hurts you every time you try. If he wanted help, it would be different - but this seems to be a case where he asks for help but when it is given he doesn't accept it, and further, he harms the helper.

I think it is just a way for him to continue contact with you. Talking to you meets a need for him - at least it seems to. Why else would he want to talk? Especially when he is engaged to someone else.


Remember who you are, and what you are trying to become. If you keep that in mind it should be easier to live. It should also guide your interaction with him.

I enjoyed reading your last few posts.
Once you were unshure.
Now you know.
Sometimes understanding has a high price, but you have paid it.

Someday, if he is willing to pay, he can have it too.
I hope he does.

In the meantime, Keep up the good work !!!

SS

Kily -- You're in NC with him.... and he doesn't like it.

May I suggest coming out of it VERY briefly? Here's a text I might offer him:

"I would love to talk about healing the wounds that we both have. I hoped to talk about that in the appointment last week, and I'm sorry you weren't able to be there.

"I know you're hurting and very confused right now. I've been there, and it really is awful. I wish I were able to help you more; your hurt is hard to see. I worry, though, that if I reach out to you, you'll turn that hurt outward and toward me.

"When I was in this situation, there were several resources that really helped me, and maybe they would help you, too. [Penny Tupy/Steve Harley] is a wonderful resource to help with the pain of these situations, and I think you'd learn a lot. You can make an appointment by calling [insert phone number here] or e-mailing [insert e-mail here].

"You have been an important part of my life, and I wouldn't mind you being a part of it again... and there is a lot of work that would have to happen for that to be a good idea. I can't explain all that's needed very well, but [Penny/Steve] can."

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

just J-


I would really love peace. Somehow, I don't think it will ever really be possible. x has agreed to visiting my therapist on Monday. I'm sure it will be a very interesting visit. I will of course fill you in on Tuesday morning.

Well, you can see from my title that I'm considering filing a restraining order against X. He has been out of control since the issue with the house. lately, when I attend activities with DS, He has been confrontational and very assertive. I am starting to become very fearful. I don't want to give a play by play summary. I'm simply going to say that he is once again trying to change the visitation nschhedule last minutte and as usual, when I don't give him what he wants, he becomes argumentative and unreasonable. I am at the point whereI am not sleeping at night because of the stress.

I do realize that I now have grounds for filing an RO based on harassment. I'm concerned about his reaction to it. I am fearful that this will only enrage him futher. It seems that no matter how far I come, I will NEVER be out from under his thummb.

Any thoughts would be truly appreciated...

Happy Easter

Kily,

You'll know that YOU are healthy when you take action based on what you need rather than what you fear his reaction will be.

He's a bully, using his temper to intimidate. Is that really anything new, or just since his marriage fell to pieces? Be honest with yourself and think back to when your marriage was on an even keel. When he didn't get his way, how did he react??

I'm going through the process through family court to get a restraining order too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> It's truly a pain in the a$$, but I need to do it to make me feel safer.

stbxH hasn't been served yet, which is why I haven't updated from my lawyer's visit last Monday (and won't until he's served).

I TOTALLY understand that feeling of being under his thumb all the time. We are forever linked to these men (?? I really hate using that word to describe them), b/c of the children we had together.

Do you have a safety plan in place kily? Do you know the numbers and addresses to local women's shelters? Are you keeping a cellphone on hand at all times, in case you need to call 911? Are you keeping a journal of his actions and the facts surrounding them?

NEVER underestimate the mindset of a selfish and depressed madman. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Karen

Here's my thoughts on RO's---

My emergency TRO (temporary) expires tomorrow, and we have a court hearing to allow X to answer the complaint, give testimony, yada...yada...and then I get a chance to request an extension, for possibly up to 2 years.

In my state, the TRO was only good for 14 days, plus I got a couple of extra freebie days, due to courts being closed on Good Friday.

As far as I'm concerned, to be verbally and emotionally abused, intimidated, harrased, shoved around physically, threatened, etc. was a boundary that I did not hesitate to enforce, by whatever means I found to be necessary...up to and including a TRO.

Apparently your X doesn't care a whit that you find this type of garbage hurtful and unacceptable. Our society sees this as completely unacceptable also, regardless of the fact that he sees nothing wrong with his behavior.

Up until now, your X hasn't ever really had to deal with any SERIOUS consequences resulting from this type of behavior. He's basically gotten away with it, and knowing that he's hurting both you and your children hasn't been enough to make him stop. I'll bet society can find and forcibly impose consequences serious enough if necesary!

In my case, even if I don't get anything beyond tomorrow, my X has been put on official notice that he has messed beyond my boundaries FOR THE LAST TIME. PERIOD. If my RO doesn't get extended, I can get another TRO, should I find the need.

I WILL file criminal charges-- from misdemeanor harrasment all the way up to and including felony stalking. And now he knows it, too, and in no uncertain terms.

I hope that the 2 week "cooling off time" has been enough to wake him up and force him to think before he acts in any similar manner in the future. For myself, I needed a break from the BULL---T sooooo bad.... it's almost been like heaven!!

Maybe this sort of thing could do the same for your X. He can get as mad as he wants....just not around you or the children!

You can always drop a not so subtle hint via email...let him know that if he keeps it up, you WILL seek to LEGALLY enforce that boundary, then tell him to go right ahead and call his attorney and inquire as to what effects a RO might have concerning ongoing custody battle, visitation with son, etc...if he CHOOSES to continue acting like a total jerk in any dealings with you.

He doesn't get to make the decision wether or not you deserve to be treated with dignity and simple human respect. He gets to make that choice only as long as you allow him to continue to do just that.

I'm sorry, that last little paragraph doesn't even sound or read anything like proper English, but I'm too tired right now to fix it!! Maybe tomorrow....LOL!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Kily,

Consult your counsel. If you have grounds, then do it. If you have grounds, then to me it means you need the protection.

As we have discussed before, and as Helen says - sometimes it takes more than polite request to get their attention.

Lets see, what was it that you said?
I am forgiven because I have chosen to sin no more. To look back and condemn myself for those choices was wise because it brought me to understanding. To continue to live my life in reference to those choices is WRONG though.

I have done what I have done. I have tried to make amends, and now I have to live my life not repeating those mistakes. They do NOT define who I am. I may be judged by my X, but it is NOT his job to judge me. Only one person can judge me and HE has forgiven me. I have forgiven me...I no longer have to wear that scarlet A around my neck for all the world to see.

I think it is time for X to leave you alone. As I said, consult with legal counsel, and if you have grounds, then do it. I do not believe he ought to get away with blaming your past actions for his continuing abuse. If there are laws against what he is doing, they ought to be enforced.

Try to keep love in your heart, try to have charity for him - but protect yourself.

Seek freedom with all the tools at your disposal.

SS