Ok so I am alittle moody today , I was reading on another thread and this topic can up .

So I don't want to Thread JACk .

LETS talk about this as a EN .

I understand the hole there are people out there like that , belive me I got one of those H'S .

And I don't agree with it being a need , it is shallow and selfish . It does nothing , for there spouse but make them feel ugly , and kills self esteem .

I get the dress nice and look your best do your hair SHOWER .

But the body thing ,,,, No WAY .

AI mean its horriable for one to say well when I met you you where a 36, 24, 32 so thats what my need is .After children and age , give me a breack .

I know its not inpossiable but , things change and if you love that person , thats a need that you can just let go of not important .

I mean how can that be a need ? Its like saying I never want him to go bald cause hair is what atacted me so go get some plugs.

Or boobs are the thing and now you had cancer and one was removed so you don't fill my need .
OR I want him to get a penis enlargement (no he doesn't need one LOL)

But come on , wrinkles come , baggy eyes, saggy boobs , strech marks ect.

So should I have my plastic surgent on speed dail ?

Heck I became 85 lbs bigger after 2 kids and I was never like that before M or during the first few yrs.
I have taken most off after the A , and it was an issue for me as well as him .

BUT I am 20 lbs still to go all in all and you know what ,,, it still will never be as it was .

So if this is a need I guess he will have to fill it some where else .

Life is to dam short to get wrapped up in to body bulding and plastic surgery and personally it is shallow and selfish .

Any one else care to join in on this , if anything it may give some prespective on some selfesteem issues .

Hmmm. This is a tough one.

Yes, appearance and sexual attractiveness IS a need. You may think it's shallow, but actually.... it's biologically deep. We are ALL wired to be attracted to certain things in our mates. Some of us have that wiring more strongly than others. Yes, it focuses on the physical rather than on what's "inside" a person. That doesn't mean it's shallow. It's just a different focus.

Now, having said that, there's a number of things that I would ask about how you and your husband are interacting on the subject of attractiveness:

Are you honestly evaluating what you're enthusiastically willing to do to meet your husband's need here?

You've already done one thing that makes a BIG difference: you're 20 lbs away from goal weight -- GREAT!!!! I'm so glad to hear it! That's good for you AND your husband, and I hope that you and he are in enthusiastic agreement on this one.

But what about that plastic surgery question? How would YOU feel about yourself if you did that? Would you be enthusiastic about getting rid of that extra bit of skin, or would that give you the willies? (From over here, it looks like you've got the willies about -something-, but I'm not sure what it is.)

And what else could you do? Is there a clothing style you'd both be enthusiastic about? Are you a shoes girl? Would you enthusiastically wear stuff he likes if you get to pick the shoes?

Or, hmmm. What about hair and a makeover? Would you be enthusiastic about an all-expenses paid trip to a day salon to have the full treatment? Would he?

I guess what I'm really trying to say is that you can either get all defensive and upset about stuff that you cannot or will not change, or you can sit down with him and make a game out of figuring out what he'd find attractive and what you'd enjoy. No harm no foul for ANY suggestion -- your body is a sacred playground, and you can do with it what you want -- but it's YOUR body and you get to say what does and doesn't happen with it.

So... have some fun! Dye the hair a beyoootiful shade of orange. (I did that once, whilst trying for red highlights...) Start taking kickboxing classes. Wear the sexiest clothes your husband can stand. Have the tummy tuck if you want to. You are a BEAUTIFUL PERSON, 3!! So stand tall, stand proud, and show it off.

(Eventually, your husband will either have a heart attack or tell you he loves you more than anybody. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

3...don't agree with you on this one...I am one of those shallow people myself...appearance is very important to me. My H and I made a pack in the beginning of our M that neither of us would let ourselves go.

Now 20 plus years later...no one every guesses that we are grandparents or over 40. After having my baby at 35 and gaining 30 lbs...I was back at pre pregnancy weight and clothes in two weeks. Now...took hard work for it to all go mostly back in right places.

Both of us work hard at our appearances...we work out 4-5 times a week (my body now better after 40 then when in my 20's), we bike, walk...eat pretty good. We wear in style attractice clothes (not teeny bopper stuff), we both take care of our skin...etc.

We both at over 40 still turn heads...this is important to both of us...which is why we both work hard at it. It's also another way we team up and get to spend recreational time together.

I wouldn't be attracted to someone who let themselves go...neither would my H.

Now that all being said...during the couple of years pre-A I did let myself go a little..went up a clothes size, didn't work out much, body not very firm, stopped wearing make up much, started getting a little frumpy in clothes dept...this didn't bother my H much....but made me feel less sexy and when I don't feel sexy I'm not in mood for sex.

My H isn't shallow...he likes me to look my best for me and him, neither of us would respect the other if we just gave up and ate what we wanted, didn't exercise and said to heck with clothes or looking good. But...I should mention that when I was 8 I was burned badly in a fire...I have bad scars on my right arm and right let...they have always caused me embarrassment...but My H from day one has never "seen" those scars...to him they do not detract from my beauty at all. Same with pregnancy...he thought I was the most beautiful person he's ever seen.

I had a breast cancer scare a year or so ago and was terrified..he assured me that even if i had to have a masectomy he'd still think I was beautiful.

I think what I mean is there are things you can control and things you can't..as long as we are taking care of the things we can control we are maintaining our attractiveness.

To be blunt...if my H gained a bunch of weight because he sat around eating all day and not exercising...I wouldn't find him as attractive. However, if he went bald tomorrow I would still find him sexy.

Not sure if this makes any sense or not...but that's my take.

I don't agree that the physical appearance EN is shallow. It is no more shallow than the need for financial security or affection. Men are visually stimulated [so are some women] and since SF is another one of their top needs, this EN lends to the other one.

I know many women who have LOST their husbands by ignoring their EN's and vice versa.

Little out #'ered here LOL

thats ok I am use to it , always seems I am on the opposite side of the fence LOL

I wasn't making all about my personal issue , but yes thats where I guess I got this from .

I was a very athletic type boby , I guess it was good I mean it was the first thing all noticed about me , I didn't work on my body at all and I was a sweat/ jeans and sneacker girl very little make up ect.

I am not flashy , I mean I did do the real tight dresses when I had to and yes I looked good .

Ok so the years got away , I loved being pregnant and never cared about the weight at the time .

And yes it mad me very depressed and caused deep issues for me when I never lost it .

H was not supportive only made fun and called names , then to have an A with a barbie doll din't help .

But I still think it is nasty to have this be a reason for staying with someone .

I want to grow old with my H , what ever he looks like . I mean he hasn't let himself go , but its change I mean he lifted weights back then and yeh his BODY was rock hard .

But its not now I mean it is good and I would and am still attracted to him .

with age my H feels I should be workin real hard at this HALIE BERRY body that he wants me to have and the always be 100% in the cloths .

He wants me to have it to flant it . The low rise jeans with the flat tight stomach .

well me I want it , but and a very big one I don't think it will be achieved and if its not I shouldn't have to worry that my spouse should stray cause of it or deny me sex for that .

If he M me for my body , thats pretty sad and neive of him to think it would stay forever .

If I don't have the money for the nails or a hair cut for weeks because we need to feed the kids I don't think the other stuff is a prortiy .

I am not that selfish , The plastic surgery well that was an example of how far does someone have to go to fill this need .

No my H wants me to be all that and it be NATURAL .

Oh well I still find this an interesting topic , to see others opoins . Keep it comin ,

But he is telling you that this is very important to him, 3. I don't know why you think you can't get into good shape. You CAN! I am 46 years old and I have a flat stomach and wear low rise jeans. [not low low like these young girls]

I let myself go in my 30's and got close to 200 pounds. I lost that H, but since then I have gotten in shape and am in better shape now than I was when I was 25! And I feel wonderful. I lift weights and do cardio 4-5X a week.

There are lots of things you can do to improve your appearance that do not cost alot. You can do your own nails and work out at home. I have been working out at home for 5 years to video tapes.

Want me to send you some tapes?

3,

Dr. Harley gets his greatest criticism by having attractive spouse as an EN. And, just because it's not popular doesn't mean it isn't so.

Attractive spouse is high on my FWH's list of ENs. And you know what, I knew it all along too. My attitude used to be just like yours. But just becasue I don't like it, doesn't mean that I can erase that EN from my H. He was honest and it is true for him.

So what I've learned to do is give it the same level of importance as all of his other ENs. At least they have the courage to be honest about it.

I too am not the same body I was before having my children. But the incentive is there for me to be the best me I can be now at my age. It feels good to me to know that I'm physically attractive to him now more than ever, and that the effort I put into staying in shape makes me feel good too!

3,

I would have to disagree with you as well (sorry <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ), but to me it does matter. Most guys I know it matters to also. We men are visual creatures and being attracted to someone goes hand in hand with a man's need for SF. I will still love my wife is she gained a lot of weight and let herself go, but I would imagine that my need for SF be affected should I not find her as physically attractive as I used to.

One thing I don't agree with your H on is the way he puts you down for it. Rather than call you names and tell you your fat he should work out with you. This, like forevertogether, mentioned gives you something to do together for recreational companionship!

Just so you don't feel to ganged up on => Here are a few more who feel like you do!

Hey guys , well its ok I am sinkin fast on my own around here LOL

Mel - thanks I got all the tapes , tybo, palites and even a BOFLEX .

I got it all right here , I want also , but I guess maybe to depressed to reallyt get it .

I want to be loved first and for most for me , for all I give , for all I have dealt with . for the mother I am .

The sex part well use to be real HIGH in the need department now all of a sudden he sayd it doesn't matter much , witch in JMO is BULL%^^%, its that the body isn't there and I feel like its black male .

I know ya'll may see it different , but I see it as he had sex with OW and it was still a need that was met by her and she had a BODY !

So now I am just the WIFE and oh well he deal with the sex once in a blue cause the BODY isn't there .

And I feel again it is very selfish .

I love hering from everyone and who knows I am open minded , so maybe all this will give me the turn around I need .

3, you say you want to be loved for who you are, but are you offering the same in return? Do you love him for who he is when you denigrate him for one of his top ENs? He is telling you that this is an important EN and you are not accepting it. You are denigrating him for it and calling him "selfish."

Are you selfish for wanting your needs met? Should he pick and choose which of your needs to meet according to his whim?

Does he have an option about which ENs of yours to meet? If he thinks your EN for affection is silly and selfish, can he reject that one?

I would also point out that your physical appearance IS part of who you are. You can't seperate a part of the package when it's convenient. We are 3 parts: mind, body and spirit. You should be flattered that your H wants to see you at your BEST and is expressing this desire to you.

Why not use these tapes and start working out?

<small>[ March 28, 2004, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

3, I'm with you to some degree. The only thing the FOW had better than me in a bod way was her breast cup size. And I have asked my H about a boob job and he says no. (I never wanted one until he had the A. I have always been thankful for a B cup because they never get in my way.) My OW was a little different than many here apparently. She was OLDER than I by 15 years (very experienced with men's emotions), her skin was ugly from sun exposure and smoking, her hair was dry from so many dye jobs, the sun exposure & the smoking, granted she kept her hands/nails nice - she was short, 30-40 lbs overweight (of course 10 or more of that was in her boobs) and really the only other thing she had that I don't have was big blue eyes. I've asked my H if he wanted me to get blue contacts - he vehemently says NO! My light green eyes are fine...

My point being - My H had the affair because of how the OW made him FEEL - not because she was attractive or because I was unattractive. I did lose 15lbs post d-day which heigthened his interest sexually (but that interest has always been high! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ), then I got pregnant about 6 months post d-day. So the weight came back on.

HOWEVER - We were having a discussion the other night where he pointed out that since we got married I had put on 9 lbs (in 12 years and 3 babies) and he had put on 40 - 50 lbs. (which he attributes to my good cooking - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> The way to a man's heart is through his stomach!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ) He does not push me to be a super model because he knows that I would insist on the same from him.

Is your husband a super model? Have you pointed out to him some of his less attractive physical qualities? Even if they don't bother you, it might make him realize how impossible it is to match the air brushed actresses and actors of hollywood. Maybe it's time to take his TV away!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (Talk about a lead balloon!!) I've made a point to mention to my H when my coworkers say they are wearing control top briefs, pantyhose, water bras, etc. So he knows that underneath their polished exterior they are no different than me.

My biggest flaw since having the kids are my stretch marks. He swears he doesn't see them and since I was NEVER a beach bunny, I don't have to worry about being self conscious in a bikini. I guess his biggest physical thing would be for me to have a tan. And tanning is so harmful and makes your skin age so much that I just can't bring myself to do it - plus I am so fair complected that I would never be a bronze goddess. I usually use the self tanners to some degree, but they smell so bad I can't hardly stand it!

Anyway... Nice discussing this topic!

So 3..... what's it going to take to get you out of this defensive mode and into doing something about meeting your husband's ENs?

Well, I have to throw in my two cents here since I believe it was my thread you are talking about that made you think. When I was extremely overweight, close to 200 pounds, I joined Jenny Craig for MYSELF..because of my weight gain I was not happy and therefore made my H not happy. My H always told me that it did not matter how much I weighed he would always love me. That said, he had the affair anyway <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> The reason he had the affair was because the unhappier I was about myself, the unhappier he was about me and the unhappier we were together in the marriage. Everything, including sex STOPPED! I hated my body, I hated myself. I am NOT a vein person, but I do like to look nice. I always kept my personal appearance up. I am an attractive person. I have blonde hair, bright green eyes...My H knows he has a good catch, but when I was so unhappy and overweight, he didnt' see the beauty in me. He said I acted like a "toad" and therefore he saw me as a toad.

Now that I have lost almost 30 pounds, 20 pounds still to go, he has noticed ME again. I am starting to dress nicer, and look younger.

Now, I am going to tell you something that will BLOW YOUR MIND! I AM going to be getting surgery this summer. I will be getting a tummy tuck and my boobs done. I have always had the saggy boobs and I want nice boobs da**it! The tummy tuck is simply cuz I have lots of lose skin from three HUGE babies being born and no matter how much I work out, it will always be there. I dont like the lose skin. I do it all for ME, not my H.

My bottom line is that if YOU are happy with your appearance and weight then everyone else will be happy with it. I know many woman who weigh well over 200 lbs and are very happy and so are their husbands. I think it is just a personal opionion. NOw If my H were to say, I dont love you cuz you are tan enough or your hair is not black or you need to wear more makeup for me to love you...Screw that, he married the WRONG person. I married my H because he loved me the way I was and am. I let myself slide and it affected the way MY H percieved me because of MY actions. I am not saying that I caused the affair, but yes, my actions had alot to do with! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Ok guys its not that I don't want to meet the need , its ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

OK OW meet that need , I just feel I won't compete anymore . SHE is 7 years younger and I just ain't got it any more .

OH god now this is goin to get to emotional for me to handle .

Just wanted the topic to stay NON personal , just your thoughts on the APPERANCE thing , some opoins .

I can't do this I can't get this real about the subject any more it rips into me to much .

Can't really get it down out of the head what it does to me , I see that it seems stupid to some that I may feel like this , the giving up .

I can't be a super model , I am realistic ,

I got to take a break a minute I can't let him see me crying again .

This may be ugly, and I may get slammed for it, but...

Imagine how the OW must be feeling - Her self-esteem must have taken a beating when she found out that she - the super-model - lost out to you!!! Even without the super-model body, you won over her!

I - even without the triple D boobs - won over the FOW!!!!!!!

Would it be possible for you to get away with your H for a weekend? Maybe attend a marriage conference? Try bonding on an emotional and spiritual level instead of just physically?

3,
Not only will working out make you look better to your H, but you will also feel better. You will feel healthier and your self esteem will rise too. Just something to thinnk about.

MIF?

The OW i had was not more physically attractive than my wife, yes she had a nice body and she said the things that made me feel good, she was great in bed and convinced me she was THE ONE for me, her face lets just say we had to be around each other a long time before I began to see her as beautiful. But that is just it you can change your appreciation for beauty but instead he can do it towards you instead of OW. Heck I did it for an OW who was no supermodel and I could have gotten someone prettier but it not about that it is how they make you feel then this changes your whole perception of them and you fall into lust/love/fog whatever it is. You can change his perception of you many ways, my wife showed me who she is and how strong she can be. She showed me she can and will survive with or without me, she showed me she can compete with any OW on looks and beat them on devotion honesty and just pure love. NO OW WILL EVER BE ABLE TO DO THAT. Not Pamela Anderson nobody, but a few tricks to make yourself hot and maybe carnal enticements which feel just as good from any mouth or organ go along way. Hey this feels good from you too maybe better if you change what and how you do it. The point is my OW was no beauty and all my friends new it and looked at me funny when they met her. It all PERCEPTION and that is ultimately his and your reality.

I know looks count In a marriage but hey It's not 100%. So don't get obsessed with the Looks.

When I got Married I was super skinny (too Skinny)
FiveFour and weight 110. Had Kids and Gaing 100 LBS quickly lost it! I starved Myself! Till I got to 125 I exercise regularly and all.

Well when I found out the address of the OW I went to see her( She doesn't know she saw me) Well I was expecting a Bomb Shell something that I would've said well babe I would've to.

Well she was a lot shorter than me and very fat I would say she is 5 flat (tall) and weighs about 190 or so (no exageration). I had a fit! But You Know what it isn't about the looks. Now I believe you have to just want to share a nice time w/someone whom you are attracted to. Smell nice and look good for yourself not for him. I do it for me!

This subject really bothers me. When WH and I married, he had 2 kids to help raise. He needed someone that was a homebody and mother type. That is me.

Now that kids are on their own, he decided he needed a playmate, who is 16 years younger than me. She is very cute and just what he wanted. The thing that bothers me is that I still look good. He is fat - weighs about 250 lbs. He has gone downhill.

No matter how good I look, I will never look 16 years younger. Also she has left her 12 year old daughter for my WH. Years ago he would not have been interested in her. He needed a helpmate. Now I feel like he has discarded me for a younger, wilder woman.

3,

Hon, here is my take on this.

You were young and looking good. You had your babies and gained your weight and did not realize the physical appearance was an important EN for your FWS.

He chose the WRONG way to tell you this was a big issue for him. I assume you are fully aware of this now.

You are 20 lbs overweight. Very normal. You can do it 3. I wish that were all I had to lose, and that I were your young age and could lose it easier. As it is, I am unfit to be seen in public. That is how bad my self image is.

What I see is you want to be loved for 3, fat 3, thin 3, doesn't matter. But that is not the way it is.

Try to do this. For him. For you. exow is what, 8 years younger than you. Not much as the years go on. Believe me, she will age too. AS WE ALL DO.

I hope this is not a 2x4.

Just for background. My FWS is not in good physical shape. Never has been, and at this point, never will be as far as I can see. However, he had many years of porn, phone sex, whatever addiction. I found swingers magazines with things circled that were in the areas that FWS gigged. Swingers things and bi-sexual things. Magazines that you wouldn't believe. All of which made me feel extremely inadequate. No matter how thin, attractive I was, it was never enough. Which made me scared to have SF with FWS. I pulled away. Justifiable? Yes. Right? NO. And all of that said, with folks always telling me how great I looked. So I guess I come from a different angle.

However, one of these days your FWS is going to age, and that hard body will not be so hard anymore. And then where will he find that young, hard body? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I am sure you are beautiful, inside and out. Just do the best you can. Are you 3? Or are you being stubborn again and insisting on something your H is not able to give at this time?

It is what it is. It isn't necessarily right, but it IS.

Get in the best shape you can. For you. For H and future. You are gonna come out looking good in the long run. And H will feel silly in about 10 years when he ain't so hot. But hey, look good for you and him.

However, I am sorry that this as a threat. It must be hard to have that over your head all the time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

{{{{hugs}}}}}} 3!!!!

and believer, I am so sorry for your situation. You are a great person and help so many here. You are very worthy, and I support your stand and decisions with your situation with your WS. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

End of threadjack.

Love and hope to see your response soon 3.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

<small>[ March 29, 2004, 01:29 AM: Message edited by: Miss M ]</small>