3,

There is a saying: "Beauty is skin deep but rottenness goes straight to the bones. "

That said, outer and inner beauty each have their respective places. The first to go is the outer beauty just be default of age. Some of it we have the ability to prolong but as long as the inner beauty is kept up, the outer beauty will shine through.

Putting it bluntly!??!?! I have a lot of 'inner' beauty. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ..... and I love it.

IMHO,
L.

Well alas it is one of Dr. Harley's needs in his bood His Needs Her Needs.

And for many men its a top 5 or higher need.

Is it shallow......well I guess so. But weren't we all attracted to our mates on some level because of his or her looks.

And if looks were what attracted us doesn't it make sense maintaining those looks helps maintain that attraction.

Now one has to be realistic. To expecte a 45 year old to look like a 25 year old is not fair regardless of gender.

But to expect your 45 year old to look as good as a 45 year old can could be considered fair.

What do I know but here's my opinion...

When I first read 3's post I thought...vain...yup, it's wrong and selfish to have looks as one of your top 5 ENs. I think I felt this way because, to me, it's not 'emotional' but physical so I've never really understood why it was even considered an EN.

Okay, so I read some of the responses and I thought...it seems like a lot of people who rate this EN in the top 5 also have spouses who rate it in the top 5...seems like if it were important to you to have this need met it would be easier for you to meet this need for someone else.

Physical appearance isn't all that important to me...with the exception of good hygine which is a MUST. I think my H is good looking but he's no God. I can hold my own if I'm clothed (3 kids in years has taken it's toll on my naked body <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ) but I'm far from a supermodel. Thanks to the infidelity diet I'm back down to a size 6 (where I haven't been in many many years). The curves are in different spots now and the scale is about 15 lbs heavier than it was when we married but oh well...that's how I feel...simply, oh well.

OK STUNNED- thats the part REALISTIC!

maybe thats where we go from here , I get the EN on appearance , but realistic one .

That does not seem to be the case , I mean I have spoken to many in my family about this subject (just a opoin convo amongst friends )

My BIL as well as my H , think it is real to think that a 45 can and should have a 25year lod body .

I understand takin care of ones self , the hair , make up, pedecure , body lotions even . The nice cloths ya know looking good .

But I think to some this need is even higher then that , and thats where I think it becomes selfish and shallow .

This could also be becasue I am not this person , looks really mean nothing to me .

Yes I agree when you meet some one something must have attracted you to them and it was out side appearance first , granted very human .

What about a blind date ? you never saw them before and then got to know them ?

I feel this as a need puts alot of presure on a person . I mean yes for me I want to look like a model (NOT HAPPENING LOL ) but if I can't acheive that then I guess my H is settleing and then some other need will go unmet (SF) not by fault of me but him cause he won't want it as much cause he may not be as attracted .

Once again I am not brining this topic up as a just personal to me thing , I am curious in general .

Most of my freinds think my H is very shallow and selfish on this topic , I get it and like I said , I guess from reading here there are alot out there who agree with my H way of thinking .

OK Miss M - Yes I am not really TRYING TRYING I am being a bit ITALIAN (thick head LOL)

But its tough getting out of the depression it brings , I mean my H saw a commercal the other day with TYRA BANKS and said , "gee she got alittle chubby "" WOW now thats sick !

She is a victoria secret model for god sack !

well on the personal level I started today , diet and excercise . Walked 2 miles this morning and plan on doing that eveyday , now getting ready for my TYBO and 2 days a week I will be hitting the weights BOFLEX ...

The plan is I will show that I am trying really trying , and yes it is for me as well but hey I still don't know if trying is going to meet that EN for him . Results take time .

And on my selfish side I want my H to get fat and gray maybe the 28yr olds of this world won't find him attractive anymore <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Ok I want him to be health just not hot anymore LOL

So on JUNE 1st when I bring this subject up again , I'll let ya know if any of this worked .

I still like the feed back , I can't be the only one out there who thinks this way CAN I ???
My family always told me I think strange LOL

LF- I must have posted at same time , thats another good point

HOW is that an Emotion ? I understand MAKING LOVE is emotion , but looks are that PHISICAL !

No my H is no GOD either he is an attractive man and keeps himself VERY clean .

He has more things he does in that bathroom then anywomen I know LOL

Me I am a throw it together girl , always was , and he never seemed to have a problem with it then until after the A , or maybe its because he A was after I was over weight and couldn't throw it together anymore .

I could take 30minutes to get ready for a wedding and every one there would think I was doin it up for hours .

and yes I have lost the weight but now since His home I put some back on .

But even when he came home I was a size 4 and all he said, was great now get the tight part in order . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Why well after catching a glimps of OW and finding out about here she is hard body and thin to boot !

He tells me thats got nothin to do with it , its about what he M and wanted that to stay that way .

BUT I think thats one of those confetions I will never get out of him (one of those the trueth will hurt ya to much )

Size 4 and that wasn't good enough....sigh...man what is he thinking?????

You know when I read some of the emails my H sent to OW it really bothered me that he talked about her clothing...blouses that allowed him to 'peek' between the buttons, business attire, etc. As he commented on her looks he told her that he hoped he didn't scare her into putting on a turtleneck. I'm a stay at home mom with three small children. I change diapers, wipe noses, clean toilets, do laundry, etc. Business attire and/or peek a boo blouses have no place in my life. I live in turtlenecks and jeans...so the turtleneck comment really hurt. Folks, she's ugly and 10 years older than me. Her personal trainer keeps her thinnier than me but I've got curves AND boobs...however, this comment hurt me so much that I went out (with my H) and bought a completely new wardrobe. Every day is a different 'button down top' that allows him to 'peek' if he wants to, jeans that 'hug', etc. Even at night when we normally just put on sweats and t-shirts I make sure to have a sexy camasole and lacy underware on...he has to use him imagination but that's fine with him. Some nights I put on the victoria secret things he bought me (nothing trashy) or the other night I wore some short shorts. I sleep in almost nothing for him. Here's the thing though...I'm not comfortable most of the time. I vacuum in nice clothes, I wear white to play with my kids outside, I even have to iron...which I have so much time to do. I wear perfume and scented lotions he bought even though they aren't scents I would choose (not that I hate them but they are not what I would have chosen). I do this because it was something my H said was important to him on the EN questionnaire. Like I said, he helped pick out the clothes (the clothes are nice but not something I normally would have picked out), he chose the scents, he even went to VS...these are all things he's done post-A...never did this before so, in addition to not being completely comfortable, I wonder if it's not his way of trying to make me more like her or maybe he never was happy with my 'simple' look. Whatever the reason it hurts. It hurts to think that, in yet another area, I'm not 'good enough'.

So then I look at him. I'd say the weight gain since we met is at least 40 lbs. He's got a beer gut, thinning and greying hair, and his face definitely has aged. Does it matter to me. Absolutely not.

So what's my point after all this blabber? Who knows...I guess I personally feel so beat up...so inadequate...so easily replaced...so tired...but let me just try to make myself beautiful for the person who has made me feel that way...I've put up with not having my needs met for so long and I accepted it. Our M was overall good but I always took the back seat to his job and...so be it. I just accepted that that was the way life was. When I had to put him second to a job (I worked at home at night when the kids went to bed and then well into the night so H wasn't getting his needs met) he went out and had an A. I'm just worn out with not being good enough and this is just one more area to add to the list...one that mother nature has more control over than I do <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

LF- you have a twin in NY LOL

I here ya loud and clear , I 2 am a stay home mom , fun thing is by my choice and his ! thats the kicker .

Then since little miss thing there where commenta about our M was bla ! you where fat and didn't do anything all day .

Well hey I guess I didn't express the fact that I was scrubbing the floors , changing those daipers and doin the laundry , I forget that looking like a Victora secret model was more important and Sh#@ where those low rise jeans to clean in should have been the most important thing in my mind after getting up 5 times a night with the kids .

I am truely LOL , like you tired very tired , its gonna take alot out of me to muster up the enery to work out and be so FIT to fill this NEED of his .

And about not BIt$#ing about my needs that were not met I hear ya again , I just sucked it up and said, ok this is life , I love him any way .

But I guess after all thats happened and everything I read here I am the one who was the A$$ for takin it on the chin , cause he went some where else .

I thougt M was this give and take I thougt hey if he is to tired after work he should relax and rest do what makes him comfortable , I thought I was being the great understanding W .

I figured poor baby works hard he should go out enjoy himself once in a while . Again I thought I was W of the year .

My H to picked out all my cloths after he came back and I lost weight , its funny after that I found the reciept to one of the same store that he bought OW 's cloths in .

OH know but he wasn't trying to keep that fantasy alive , I am crazy LOL

YES he always did say he wanted me thin and in great shape but I thought after the kids and being M he knew life did change a bit . Stupid me .

I sometimes think , if thats the case and I can't be all this then he!! see YA !

Is it worth putting myself through all this because HE is shallow ? I don't know its rough .

Good hereing from ya .

I have always wondered what it's like to be a twin <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

My H has never come out and said I'm fat and lazy. I know he'd prefer to see me today than several months ago but I don't think he'd win the arguement of 'you're fat'...not with his weight gain <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I think one of the hardest things about the A though...my needs weren't met and I tolerated...his needs weren't met and he ran. Here's the problem...I don't think my H thinks I'm lazy but his mother and OW do. Both are career women...his mom had no choice because she needed to support her H and OW...well, she makes twice what her H does so she considers him a loser. Both of these 'very important women' in his life convinced my H that I was lazy and out for his money...what money? If it weren't for me budgeting the money he makes we'd have NOTHING...and he's the first to admit it...when he's not in the fog. Personally, I think both are jealous that, not only can their H's not support them and their families but they are actually supporting their Hs...don't get me wrong...I'm not knocking women who work (by choice or need) or men who need/want their wives to work...I'm just saying what's happening in my situation...according to these 2 women he just married 'white trash', deserves better, etc. Now what's better? White trash, as I'm supposed to be, or making $100,000+ a year and leaving your children w/ your loser H to sleep with your subordinate on buisness trips? At least my son won't ever call me a who*e like her's did and at least I won't ever have to explain to my daughter that I slept with someone outside of my M (like she did).

Sorry, I guess this is off topic. I'm just waiting for the rollercoaster to hit the bottom of the hill so I can come back up again. I should be over my bitterness and anger, I know. My H is here with me and is working on our M so I should feel lucky, I know. Other situations are, by far, worse than mine but the pain is still real for us lucky people...

Anyway, splurged yesterday and bought myself a new vacuum <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Vacuumed the entire house today in my nice low cut blouse, new bra (good clevage) and tight jeans <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Have a good one 3.

My H went shopping with me after his A too. But I took it as a positive thing, not as saying that I had to look a perfect 10 to please him. I needed new jeans - Why NOT let him pick out the ones he thought looked good - I couldn't care less, I don't see them from the back when I'm wearing them anyway -

You are probably like me in that you have worn the same old things for years in an effort to conserve you H's hard earned cash. But instead of appreciating that, they get bored with it. If he wants to spend the money to buy you a new low cut shirt ever time you get a bleach spot on one, LET HIM!! The time to point out the folly in this is when he gets the credit card bill in and his jaw hits the floor. Maybe he'd be a little more satisfied with the old clothes if he had to dig deep to pay for the new!!!


I pretty much clean and such in my Tommy Hilfiger's now. And I actually feel BETTER doing so. I know I look nice, and FWS treats me differently when I'm prancing around looking nice. The little looks, the pats on the butt (even though that can get annoying at times <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> ) it all lets me know he IS noticing. As summer approaches, I'll break out my skimpier bed wear - my only prob there is I have to be prepared for SF anytime I dress that way!!

Hey 3 - I just wanted to tell you that you look beautiful today and I don't think you should exercise or diet today <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I went to they gyn the other day. It was horrible. I've recently moved so I needed to find a new dr. I don't know anyone in the area so I just went on the insurance website for a name. So I'm sitting in her office waiting and I look at all the diplomas on the wall. Holy shi*! She's 30. Oh great. A 30 year old woman looking at my stretch marks and flabby belly <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> The conversation started out horrible as she asked me all the questions I normally would have laughed at...Am I in a safe relationship? Am I in a monogamous relationship? Do I feel sad or cry more than the 'normal' person? Do I find it hard to find joy in life? So I lied my way through all these questions...not the smartest thing, I know but I just couldn't admit failure to this 30 year old, thin, pretty woman. So now we talk about weight <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> She comments on 3 children in 5 years and then says, "Wow, you've been able to maintain a fantastic weight even after that. Do you know how many women are envious of you?" WHAT!?!?!?! A woman being envious of me? Of my weight? I just looked at her and almost cried. A thin, pretty 30 year old woman actually complimenting my flabby, stretch-marked body? It threw me for a loop so when she asked me if I ate well, exercised, lost the weight gradually I wasn't prepared to lie (it doesn't come naturally for me so I really had to try hard to lie) and blurted out that I didn't eat well, didn't exercise, and lost 15 lbs in 3 weeks to get me where I am. OOPS!!! Her guard went up and I quickly scrambled to cover with the 'oh we've just moved, the kids have been sick, lots of 'normal' stress but I promise to take better care of myself.'...but it made me think of you...you know, it's really not about whats on the outside and anyone who says it is is vain. Don't get me wrong. I don't think there is anything wrong with someone who wants to look good and therefore watches their diet and exercises. I don't think there is anything wrong with someone who spends a lot of money on clothing, nails, hair, etc. I do think that it's wrong for people who do these things to judge people who don't. You know what, if your H has physical appearance as one of his top 'needs' fine. Put on some nice clothing, style your hair nice, or whatever. If he can't find beauty in you because you're 20 lbs overweight...well, tough noogies on him. Haven't you ever seen someone 'overweight' who looks beautiful? I mean, physically looks beautiful. I have. You know I just lost 15 lbs...which means that if I had been 5 lbs heavier I would be where you are and damn, I don't think I was ugly because of it. I was ugly because I was a frumpy housewife not because my body wasn't beautiful. And while we're at it...can you define for me what '20 lbs overweight' really means. You mentioned that you were a size 4 when your husband came home...are you '20 lbs overweight' because you weigh 120 and he wants you to weigh 100? You've received a lot of advice on this thread about dieting and exercising to meet your h's needs but let's face it...if you are/were a size 4 and he was still complaining, is it possible that perhaps his expectations are even just slightly unrealistic. Sure, I'd love to have the body I had when I met my H and I'm sure he'd enjoy it too but the body I have now is what I have. It is the result of bearing the 3 most wonderful children in the world and no amount of dieting or exercising is going to get rid of my stretchmarks or my extra skin. Welcome to life. I'm feeling a little spunky today so I hope I didn't offend anyone <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Have a great one.

JAMUP- I had a H that smacked my [censored] every minute , and if I wore the low shirt well lets say he was wanting it all the time . I didn't know how much I would miss it .

LF- Thanks for thinking of me , no I did not walk today RAINING heavy here (NY)
But I thought about it , I can't belive I was going to get like a drowning rat to make this such a # 1 priority .

Well lets explain , I have BOOBS and always a BUTT , (not big just right as explained to me by my H and others )

I an 140 at 5'4.... When he came home I was 120 .
size 4.

before A started I was 185 , then down to 175 about size 12 to 14 .

now I am inbetween 6 and 8 . it varies with different cloths .

BUT it all jiggles and I think GIGGLES back at me LOL

See he doesn't pat my butt no more , he doesn't show any thing in looking at me "in that sexy way"

I know it is about the weight , and he was beaten up by alot of people for the way he use to tear into me about beoing fat , so after A trying to convince people it wasn't about the BODY thing was HARD .

And he still will not admitt to this , that he is not ALL OVER ME cause of the BODY thing (compared to OW)

See I spoke to this HO and I am sure she wasn't lieing about the sex drive casue she discribed him and his actions exactly to a tee of the MAN I M . (BI#%#$%)

He always was / into the body issue . Always the type of guy to complement in the cloths , ya know in that oh so you turn me on way .

When we address the subject as we have been , he says thats fine your body is just something I have to except , I 'm not unhappy . At least your not a beached whale anymore .


But its as if he is settling and I want what we had , is this making sense .

See this hole topic is alot of selfesteem issue , I AM NOT IT ANY MORE !

It sounds syupid to people like what you thought your $HIT DIDN"T STINK ,,, but the way he made me feel with the way he was attracted to me was unbelivable .

And I guess I was wrong I took it for granted , well egg on me , .

But this is something I don't know if I can live with thats why its an issue and it now is alot of pressure .

Trueth be told I don't know if this alone could cause me to want to D . This is a big part of what I loved about him the way he could make me feel like I was beutiful . NOW I feel like just his WIFE ! WEIRD maybe but true .

This issue of body goes hand in hand with love making so the 2 aren't going well . He says its fine , I don't want fine .

I also feel like I need to see if I acheive this will it turn his head again and if it doesn't then I will know he is settling for me as W and mom to his kids and OW really is who he wanted to be with , and he is holding it all in .

Belive me he as well as I can have that type personality sometimes . MORE him I useually get it all out eventually .

I speack my mind , and sometimes alittle to much thats why I didn't PLAN A well back then . LOL

Every thing is good between us , its hard to explain , its all there except this theres something missing from the all new IN LOVE after the A marriage .

DOES this make sense ????

Good to here from you , and lieing to DR. well is it cause you are afraid of them wanting to give ya the MEDS for some depression . ??

have a good day , I will be on tonight .

Well, 3 and LF, I'm with you. I am overweight, and my FWH admitted that he felt that I had cheated him of the woman he married by gaining and keeping weight on after each kid. But after months of counseling and introspection after D-Day, we both realized that even back then there were lots of issues other than weight: He wasn't excited about parenthood round II, he was depressed about the loss of his relationship with his first M's son, and he was unable to admit that I might be depressed, and just wanted me to "snap out of it". I was unimpressed by being the parent of a high-need baby, and depressed about my lost career.

Of course, the more he pulled away and denied, the more I ate. (Plus I really love food <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) But the reality is that he was going through a mid-life crisis when he had his A, and his needs had precious little to do with the increase in my size.

It did torment me beyond words that he told The Skank that he was not attracted to my body, and that he was excited to, as he put it, "drive a sleeker model" (gag!!!) This was a man who had aged himself (that happens): shaved off the beard I loved, gained weight, and began drinking a lot, even alone. A real bargain.

And, in retrospect, he knows that even though he couldn't admit this politically incorrect opinion, he wasn't attracted to this body of mine, because he thought of himself as a nice guy. Not no more.

Overall, I think that women's weight has become a huge (pardon the pun) issue. We are bombarded with conflicting messages in the media all the time. And food and emotional problems are inextricably linked for most of us. I know that recent materials are starting to look at overeating as an addiction. And the reality is that my husband IS affected by this stuff as well. But very few men are told it is there JOB to remain attractive for their wives. No one tells them that they have to lose the belly, or get the hair back, or get a butt-lift to satisfy their spouses. Plastic surgery? I think not. I'll highlight my hair, and wear makeup, and even wear heels, but I draw the line at life-threatening surgery to have tighter skin on my tummy.

I am trying to reduce my weight now, but I'd like to think that it's because of health issues, and that, frankly, I expect him to remain commited to our new recovering marriage no matter what happens to my body. Mastectomies, weight, illness, whatever. I am 43. Gravity sucks. I have stretch marks - and two beautiful, healthy kids. My body will never be 28 again. Neither will his. I like 28-year-old bodies too, but I'm married to the whole man. This is commitment.

He put attractiveness in his top 5. After discussion we agree that this means taking care of our hygiene, dressing nicely, and trying to be healthy. That's FAIR.

This weight thing is a big issue with us as well and for almost 2 years I've been beating myself up over it. At first I lost forty lbs, but it was the A diet and it came back on. Why because eating was a way I dealt with emotions. And ws didn't help by giving me the look of disgust when he saw a slight buldge or eating a cookie.
WS says that is one need that ow met, my ex best friend who was also 30 lbs overweight but during an A with my H she lost it and became someone who is still not attractive to many, 45 wrinkled wearing her 17 year old daughters clothes. But she felt good, I see the difference people speak of. I am finally at that point although I slide sometimes too. I look in the mirror now and like the person I see even though I am heavier then I like. I dress in fashion, get my hair cut and colored, do my nails and walk down the street as if I am worth looking at, I build my mind by going to school and challenging myself. C tells H that I will lose the weight when I lose the issues that relate to it, he tells H that I will never be the same as 20 years ago but that I am beautiful if he looks with real eyes. H brought an old picture of us to C and C said "Yes I see the difference.... especially with you H not only have you gained weight but your hairline is receding etc etc. LOL thanks C. But you know what C is right no one can make you feel bad but yourself and now that I'm feeling good about me whether H is in the picture or not, I'm losing weight 15 lbs so far and effortlessly. I still fall off the wagon but now is with 1 cadbury carmel easter egg yum yum and not the whole box. Because I eat the choc egg with relish and not cram the whole box in instead of saying my feelings. I sometimes think my ws would rather I stuffed when instead say "honey I need to talk to you about something please" one more time. lol.
km4
me 39
ws 45
married 18 years
two boys 11 and4
ow was my best friend.

Well, ol righty then...I guess I'm a fat slob too then. I'm 5'3" and weigh in at 130...and at that weight my dr told me that I am the envy of many women...and you know what? She's probably right. You are by far not 20 lbs overweight by weighing 140. Oh sure, wouldn't we all love to be 120 lbs again and wearing a size 4 but damn, that's just not realistic. You have boobs AND a nice butt...what is this man complaining about????? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">At least your not a beached whale anymore .
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WHAT!?!?!? Seriously, I think this is his issue, not yours. I understand what you're saying about being 'it'. When I married my H you could literally see the love in his eyes for me. It shined brighter than the sun. I was 'it', without a doubt, and have been for years. It's killing me that I wasn't 'it' for a while and makes me doubt that I even am now (and you know how hard he's trying). My H always gave me compliments also. Who doesn't want their spouse to look good but like I said before, looking good isn't just about weight. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Every thing is good between us , its hard to explain , its all there except this theres something missing from the all new IN LOVE after the A marriage .
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know, I'm new to all of this and you know I'm struggling myself so maybe I'm out of line but is it really all good or are you just in your 'pretending mode'? I'm just going to throw this out because I feel it's helped me a little...now you read my post the other day about feeling like I've lost myself because of my H's affair, right? You read how much my H has been doing to try to better himself as a H and a father and that basically he's the 'dream' WS that we're all hoping walks through the door, right? I read and reread my post and all the responses I got. I reread the email my H sent me and then I realized (god, I love when that lightbulb goes on) that despite all of his attempts to please me he just wasn't meeting my top ENs. Now, I know that sounds psycho since he's buying roses, gifts, and even a car for me...nice things that I like and that made me happy (maybe 8 or 9 on my list of priorities)...he's coming home early, spending time with the kids, doing things around the house (getting closer to the top of my list of ENs)...but when I really looked at it what I want most...what my top ENs are honesty/openness, affection, and conversation...my H leaves for work every day and I'm clueless about what he does, what he thinks, etc. It's not even so much about the A (although I think it's normal that I have doubts now) but that he's not sharing a HUGE part of his life with me. If he's out of my site I don't know what he's doing and I want to know...not to be possessive but to be a part of his life. Affection, sure he's been great with that...but not when I'm in a funk (which you know I've been in). My funk keeps him at a distance when I need him most. Conversation...again, he shares nothing about his life with me... he's just not one who talks a lot...but damn he always had time to talk to OW (just look at the cell phone bills). Anyway, all the great responses I got the other day got me thinking and made me realize that despite all my H's attempt to please me he just wasn't hitting on my top needs. So I wrote him a long letter (I can get very emotional so this was the best way for me) explaining my post, my emptiness, and basically that I appreciate what he's doing but it's not what I need. He heard me and it's a great relief. Am I out of my funk...no but it cleared up some things for me...so are you sure that 'everything else is good between you'? Are your top needs being met or are you just meeting his (I say that because from reading your other posts it seems you tend to put other's needs in front of your own a lot). </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> lieing to DR. well is it cause you are afraid of them wanting to give ya the MEDS for some depression . ??
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, I don't think so. Maybe but I don't think so. I'm not sure that I'm at the point where I need medication. I mean, yes I am experiencing what I would call depression but I'm not thinking that meds would help me right now...I don't think there should be a stigma with taking AD if you need them so I wouldn't have a problem taking them if I thought I needed them but I don't think that's where I am right now. My problem is that I'm stuck on feeling that my H's A is my fault. My inability to keep my H happy...my failure as a W...and I'm not big on promoting myself as a failure. Gotta run.

Alright. I'll post here but I know I'll get slammed for my views. I'm only posting because I think I can add some insight.

Here goes. I honestly didn't realize how important being attractive was to my FWH. I've always tried to take good care of my body. I am very athletic. After each of our children were born we experienced a lag in our sex life. After our first child we didn't have sex for almost 7 months. It was very tough for me. I should have taken that as a sign. He just didn't like me to be the least bit heavy (we're talk'n 20 pounds here). He never said a word to me. Never said he minded so I didn't think about it. I eventually dropped the weight but when child #2 came it was the same thing all over again.

You all know the history here. He had an A. The woman was older then me with 2 kids, way out of shape, not very pretty but she paid my H a ton of attention and made him feel special.

OK. So he has the A. I completely stop eating. I lost about 30 pounds. I'm 5'7 and at the time probably needed to drop about 10 pounds. So the weight loss was drastic for my body type. I'm back up to 115 now so I do not look like I have an eating disorder.

I had always said I would have a boob job once I had all of my babies. I wanted 4. After the A I knew there was no chance of more babies for us. So having said that I called my doctor. I had met with him several times and he suggested that I wait until I had all the babies I wanted before spending the money on augmentation. I called him on Wednesday and on Saturday morning I had brand new boobies!!

I did it for me. I didn't do it for him. I wanted it for as long as I could remember. I will say that hands down I love'em and would do it again and again if I had to. It's the best thing I could have ever done for myself.

I was always nervous about my breast and would rarely let my H see me naked. Now, I work out ever single day and I love it. I feel great about my body. I wish I had done this years ago.

Some of you might think this is a sad step to take but I think it was well worth it.

You can spend time on your body for you and not your H. Do it for yourself not for him. If you are overweight you know it. You have to make the decision change yourself. Do it for you and for your quality of life. The rest of your life starts today! It's up to you to decide how you want to spend it.

So ask yourself: Can I sit here another day and continue to let myself go? Do I really want to go walk in the rain just to look better?

Then I want you to think about this scenario:
You are with your H on a social outing with some of his co-workers. You are your usual sweet cheerful self. The next day your H's coworkers tell him that he is a very lucky man to have such a beautiful wife (of course they will use different terms hahaha).

You can do it. Set a resonable goal and there and set another one. You'll be surprised how quickly your body will change. I promise you that.

So many people like to say the need for an attractive spouse is shallow. Let's face it, if our S had any EN that we didn't share and that we didn't want to meet, we could make an argument that it is shallow. Want some examples?

Affection - it's just buying love with little cards and notes and hugs. It reduces me to whore status.

Admiration - all they want is a crowd of teeny bopper groupies, not someone who really understands them and cares for them.

Financial Security - all she wants is a sugar daddy so she can go play with her friends all day long.

Toss some more ENs my way, I'll make any of them seem shallow. They're easy to argue against if you don't share them and if they're hard for you to meet.

The point is - if someone has an EN for an attractive spouse, IT IS THEIR EN. They are the judge of what makes them fall in love with someone.


Now I DO agree that it's unrealistic to expect a 45 year old to have the face and body of a 25 year old. That's like a woman with Financial Security as an EN who'd leave her $100K a year husband for a $2.5M a year guy.

I love veiws and opoins its so much fun to see how the mind can work .

Hero- theres no bashing her , we are all wired different , like I said, veiws , personal excperiance its all how ya look at things.

LF- Ok twin <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ya hittin on things.

Turtle - you got it , we all could put holes in this EN thing .

My mind just seems to be wired with this , hey if mine where not meet to the fullest , I still wouldn't have an A .

Some times I think there still used as an excuse for the A . I know everyone says it differently but things like " the M was set in an envirment for an A" things like that still say the word excuse to me .

OH I get the ws saying yes it was there choice , but in a small way there is still blame that ws are stateing and with EN involved that still to me screems excuse .

Yes I have needs , but there not like oh my GOD if there not met I am out out here , or I will get someone to fill them for me .

I have a need for affection I want flowers everyday, cards , candy(fatty oneLOL ) I want back rubs ect. I want finacial security , I want honesty i MEAN REAL HONESTY ---EX. did OW swallow? ect.
I want to be told all the time how much I do is great LOL

NOW lets be realistic am I going to get that HE!! NO . Anyone here would say thats not real . BUT hey thats what I want .I want my H to eat , sleep and breath ME!

Again thats not right I would be callled all kinds of things from NUTS to SELFISH ..

MY point is if thats what I want then I should get it right ? NO, I need to comprimise my needs and I have done that .

After all if I didn't I would be out there alone . Or maybe not but I wouldn't be with my H .

I didn't have my needs met and always would very nicely bring it up that I had needs that would help me to be happier , but I learned that there where other things to consider .

He was tired , so he don't want to rub my feet. The kids need to spend time with him before bed so thats more importnat. OH he worked hard so he should go out and play golf .

My H provides for his family , we are broke and I don't have FINACIAL SECERITIE BUT I would never want him to work any harder . It is ok if we have no money in the bank we have eachohter.

and if my back don't get rubbed well I won't die. and flowers cost money .

Get what I am saying , When someone puts to much into THERE EN then I find it selfish , and when the NEED is to have your wife look 25 , it is shallow .

JMVHO

Turtlehead -

You are good! Big thumbs up here. I think I might be one of those shallow people with the need to have an attractive spouse. I'm not sure I'll ever know if this is a major need. My H is extremely attractive and built like a rock. He's always been this way. I'm sure I take that for granted. When we are on the beach I have never seen anyone with a better body.

Having said that I'll say that I'd still be attracted to him if he were heavy. I guess it'd be different. I don't know. When I was holding on to some weight I knew it. I hated it and I felt terrible.

I won't judge others for their needs. I can promise you this, after all that we have been through I'll do everything to meet my H's needs. But this is something that I do for me....not for him. He just happens to reap the rewards.

I hope others reply to you Turtlehead. I like your approach.

My take on your first post is not that you are saying the EN is illegitimate. I think all of us would agree that ENs are what they are; they are not logical or something you can make go away just because you might be called shallow or you have no hope of your need being met.

I think what you are talking about is LOVE, LOYALTY and SENSITIVITY. If I have a need for SF, am I going to make a husband who is ill or who because of certain meds, is impotent, feel bad about himself? If I need FS, do I berate a H who has just lost his job? And if I need AS, do I torment the wife who BY BEARING MY CHILDREN now has saggy boobs or stretch marks?? An adult (and there are few around) sees the whole person, signs up for the package deal, when they marry.

I am not saying that all of us should not try to learn about and meet our spouses ENs. There is nothing wrong with wanting what we want, but there is a lot wrong about using our wants to hurt the person we promised to love and honor forever.

Ok that hit on it as well ,,take the package .

And love the hole package , I am not saying put the EN thing out and shoot it just comprmise it alittle , for the HOLE package .

DOES that make sense ???

I want to thank everyone for all the responses , it feels really good to sounce things around , ya know serious but not so emotionaly .

Ok so this is my issue , but it is very much talked about with people I hang out with freinds and family and very debated .

I also hoped this would attract alot of new BS , cecause I think this is a big issue , it falls close to the selfesteem .

Ok got to go I am drinking way to much tonight , ahving trouble typing and anyone who knows me around here thats bad cause I spell like a 5yr old and my thougths don't get out straight as it is . LOL