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i wasn't sure if i wanted to try and post about this, then i saw Momto3boys post. I didn't want to highjack that thread. i hope all goes well for them.

for me, i don't think H is any way close to being able to be intimate with me. i know on one level he wants to, but he just can't. we were up till just past 4:30am last night (he didn't get home till after 2am, he was out having a few drinks with a friend) (which means i'm at work on 1.5hrs of sleep!!!)

i woke up when he came to bed, he wanted to cuddle, he likes me rubbing his back, last night he was comfortable with me rubbing his chest too. i know he wants the physical part of a relationship, but he just can't with me now. i told him not to pressure himself, he will know when he is ready, i'm not going anywhere... finally at about 4:30am he said he wanted to ask me something. i thought it was about OM, he said it's not what you think... he said he is very uncomfortable, physically and he wanted me to just use my hand....

i'm embarrashed about this, so please go a little easy on me here. i have already been feeling extremely dirty. i really want to give him what he needs and last night that is what he needed, i had to fight off urge of feeling used and dirty. and i was able to help him feel physically better which allowed him to get to sleep. so that is a good thing, right??

i don't know if i have an actually question here or not. i was not going to post this till i saw the other topic.

i guess i am curious for other BH's perspective regarding being able to be intimate with W after finding out about A.

I do not really consider what occured last night as us being intimate. part of me is ok with that, but honestly there is a part of me that feels so bad right now. but i really don't want him to know that. and i would do the same thing again if he asks me to. i want to give him what he needs.

maybe some help keeping this in perspective and encouragement to not feel so dirty would be good too.

<small>[ April 02, 2004, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: FinallyLearning ]</small>

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FL, I can only tell you my experience. But we had a very dry spell for about a year. I saw some changes in ws but still totally connect to ow although living at home and no PA just EA. WS was under tremendous pressure on other areas of his life and I began by just giving back rubs, his favorite favorite thing, then bought some oil to use and one night things led to the final conclussion;) The next morning I was feeling pretty good but knew what was going to happen. WS got all stressed and tried to burst my bubble. I stopped him and said very matter of factly " Hey I know its not making love but you know what I'm a woman and I need sex once in awhile even if its not as intimate as I'd like." You know he never complained after that and it was a way to meet that need. For awhile it was basic fulfillment and totally one sided, for a long while in fact. Now I've learned to ask for my pleasure also. So my long winded reply is go for it, it just might lead to what you want.

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i told him not to pressure himself, he will know when he is ready, i'm not going anywhere...
You are doing SO well, FL. I hope you know that.

he said he is very uncomfortable, physically and he wanted me to just use my hand....
I think this is an extremely good sign. He's being totally honest with you about his reluctance to have traditional sex with you. At the same time, he's being honest about his sexual needs and turning to YOU for fulfillment. He could have gone into the bathroom and taken care of things himself, but he chose instead to open up to you. WOW.

Regarding feeling dirty - that is probably guilt making you feel bad about yourself. Dismiss those feelings. You have left that part of your life in the past, you are now an open book to your H. Remorse might have a place in your life, but not guilt. You have no reason to feel dirty now.

Gee, can you imagine how bad he would have felt if he'd asked you to do that and you'd refused? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Continue loving him and letting him set the pace regarding what he is comfortable with.

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FinallyLearning:
<strong> and i was able to help him feel physically better which allowed him to get to sleep. so that is a good thing, right??
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There was a great thread a while back about men using sex as a self-medication, the way some men use alcohol, drugs, sports, exercise, etc. It is definitely that way for my H. In my mind, sex is about loving each other. It can be that way for him, but sex is also the answer for most of what feels bad for him. Got a headache, feel icky, bad day at work - sex makes him feel better.

It has been very hard for me to understand that the physical need for him can be separate from the emotional need that I associate with sex. But, I certainly don't see it as dirty in any way to meet that need for him!!

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thanks km and th

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So my long winded reply is go for it </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i can't really do that, this has to be at his pace.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He could have gone into the bathroom and taken care of things himself, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i don't mean to be discounting the fact that he opened up to me and asked, but he has never been a person that can take care of things himself. he swears he has never done that except for once or twice when he was very young. and never since we have been married. he says i have never not satisfied his needs in that area. right before i started A, it was actually very much the other way around, he would push me away, i remember one of the last straws for me was him telling me he just didn't like kissing anymore, as he put it "i'm just not into kissing anymore" for me, kissing is huge, it is what makes the whole thing so intimate. i've accepted that he and i will never win any kissing contests, i had actually adjusted some by holding his hand more throughout sex.

between nov and when i finally confessed, sex life had never been better. i felt so good being close to just him again. now all that is going to be gone for a while. but we can now have the emotinal closeness re-captured as well as get the physical back again in time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Gee, can you imagine how bad he would have felt if he'd asked you to do that and you'd refused? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i would never have done that. and even more important, i don't want him to think i feel bad about it at all. i really want to meet his needs and help him heal.

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ks41,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I certainly don't see it as dirty in any way to meet that need for him!!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i don't mean dirty because of what i did for him. i just mean dirty because i cheated on him and now he does not want to be with me.

but i know, like someone else said, i am attempting to correct the past behavior, i am not doing that anymore. i just have to be patient.

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FL,

I am not an BH, but I am a male. From what I see you did a very loving and kind thing. I have no idea why you would feel dirty. It seems to me he does have some intimate feelings but he also has some problems. I think you did a very nice thing.

So relax will you, get some sleep, and give this process time.

God Bless,

JL

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FL, i am the bs here and i am also the one that is constantly being rejected. to me it seems that your h response would be logical whereas mine seems backwards.
i would be thrilled if my w so much as touched me outside the bedroom. i guess theres just a difference in people.
at the risk of sounding like a chauvinst, i would tell you to do whatever it takes to make your h comfortable with this. us guys put a lot of stock in our sexual prowess. having our w stray does take a huge toll on our ego. i think you will be rewarded in the long run if you try to rebuild his ego.

wish i could get you to talk to my wife!!!!!
its been a major dry spell at my house and that happens to be a huge EN for me.

bottom line, IMHO, whatever it takes, go for it!
best of luck

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JL,

i don't mean dirty because of what i did for him. i just mean dirty because i cheated on him and now he does not want to be with me.

i would LOVE to get some sleep, i have a HUGE headache!!!! but i also have a mtg in 13 min <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> hopefully i will be able to get out of here shortly after the mtg. kids and H went out ot lake house (kids on spring break), i'm going to join them there.

i know, time, time, time. i have to acknowledge, considering what i told him less than 2 weeks ago, we really are doing pretty good.

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KS,

Just thought I might comment on something you said about your H. As you know sex, stimulates the release of a variety of hormones in males and females, but there is one in males that might help explain what you see with your H.

When men have sex and climax, a hormone is released to slow their heart down (it is why few men die of heart attacks while having sex). The hormone is a sedative, which actually will put a man to sleep, especially if he is tired. Hence you hear a lot of women complaining that he "just rolled over and went to sleep". Yes, there is a reason and it is not his partner. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Sometimes men use this as a way to sedate themselves when under pressure, when they cannot sleep, ect. So your H's need for sex can have more than one reason. Yes, passion, romance, love are all good things, but there is a feedback from sex that is desirable as well due to this particular hormone being released.

Just a factoid.

JL

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FL,

I think you are missing something. This is a step back towards you and I think you will find that he does want to be with you and he doesn't want to be with you. He has movies running in his mind is my guess. Most here complain of that. So what you did is a step and a step that HE wanted to take.

Hang in there girl, you are doing well. Two weeks??? You don't know how far you have come. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God Bless,

JL

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thanks JL (and all others), off to my mtg now...

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FL, i am the bs here and i am also the one that is constantly being rejected. to me it seems that your h response would be logical whereas mine seems backwards.
i would be thrilled if my w so much as touched me outside the bedroom. i guess theres just a difference in people.
at the risk of sounding like a chauvinst, i would tell you to do whatever it takes to make your h comfortable with this. us guys put a lot of stock in our sexual prowess. having our w stray does take a huge toll on our ego. i think you will be rewarded in the long run if you try to rebuild his ego.

wish i could get you to talk to my wife!!!!!
its been a major dry spell at my house and that happens to be a huge EN for me.

bottom line, IMHO, whatever it takes, go for it!
best of luck

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keith,

sorry i missed your post the first time.

for us, sex life got slower and slower as the years went on and although we never had any huge dry spell, it was becoming more and more non-intimate and therefore non-fullfilling for me. but that was just a side-effect of the marriage issues and i don't think it was as big of a deal for him as it was for me (i know this is backwards, usually the H wants more than W).

anyway, i firmly believe that if the relationship is on good ground, sex life should be good too. of course i suppose Ws and Hs can have different desire levels and that will play into it too.

bottom line, it is never fun to be rejected in that area, whether you are the W or the H.

keep working at the marriage!!!

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> i don't mean dirty because of what i did for him. i just mean dirty because i cheated on him and now he does not want to be with me.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is what I meant when I said guilt would be your biggest problem. His actions will trigger guilty feelings in you. Every time you see his pain, it will hurt you too. And, he can't really hide his pain unless he is dishonest. You have put yourself in a difficult position.

It also makes you inclined to do things you would not do if you were using the POJA because of thoughts like: "I don't deserve to be happy." or "I don't deserve to have my needs met" after what I have done.

I, too, think that you did a good thing, though. By contrast, early in our recovery my wife at times refused to meet my needs when we were in conflict, because she did not want to have negative emotional associations with things we did together, and I resented it. I knew intellectually that in the long run she was right. (Who wants to have their wife associate negative feelings with their sexual experiences together? - Not me!) But, at the time I still felt rejected, and saw her refusal as evidence that she didn't really mean what she said about being committed to recovery. So, I am guessing from what I went through, that he probably saw your willingness to do that as concrete evidence that you are really committed to recovery - and more than anything, he needs to see that our actions are consistent with your words.

However, because of the negative emotions you experience while doing it, there is a limit to how long that can go on before it kills your love for him. So, don't let it become a habit, unless you can find a way to really enjoy it emotionally - and even look forward to it, to the point that YOU would like it to become a part of your long-term relationship.

Our MC counseled us to spend a small amount of time each week on "affair recovery" and a LOT of time each week on "building the kind of marriage we want to have for the long term". I think that was good advice. Unfortunately, it is hard not to spend a lot of time on "affair recovery" at first.

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thanks for your post, this support really helps me to keep focused <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> This is what I meant when I said guilt would be your biggest problem. His actions will trigger guilty feelings in you. Every time you see his pain, it will hurt you too. And, he can't really hide his pain unless he is dishonest. You have put yourself in a difficult position.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">well, i don't want him to hide his feelings because i believe the only way for him to heal is for us to share this pain. I just need to keep in mind the difference between guilt and remorse. i am doing the right stuff now, guilt will not help me, in fact guilt makes me turn inward and i need to stay focused on him. remorse, on the other hand, is there in full force, but i think that is healthy for me right now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It also makes you inclined to do things you would not do if you were using the POJA because of thoughts like: "I don't deserve to be happy." or "I don't deserve to have my needs met" after what I have done. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i know i must fight against those thoughts.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I, too, think that you did a good thing, though. By contrast, early in our recovery my wife at times refused to meet my needs when we were in conflict, because she did not want to have negative emotional associations with things we did together, and I resented it. I knew intellectually that in the long run she was right. (Who wants to have their wife associate negative feelings with their sexual experiences together? - Not me!) But, at the time I still felt rejected, and saw her refusal as evidence that she didn't really mean what she said about being committed to recovery. So, I am guessing from what I went through, that he probably saw your willingness to do that as concrete evidence that you are really committed to recovery - and more than anything, he needs to see that our actions are consistent with your words. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">thanks for sharing that.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">However, because of the negative emotions you experience while doing it, there is a limit to how long that can go on before it kills your love for him. So, don't let it become a habit, unless you can find a way to really enjoy it emotionally - and even look forward to it, to the point that YOU would like it to become a part of your long-term relationship. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">it was not all neg emotions, i was happy he turned to me, i was happy i could make him feel good, a very small part of me thought about feeling used, but H is not like that, like you said, he was just being honest and this is where he is right now. i told him last night that i was fine with his request and that i was glad it helped him get to sleep. he said thanks but he also said he was not looking to do that a lot, he really needs a lot of time. i know that is going to be hard on me but i am just going to have to deal with it.

i think the biggest neg feeling was just sad that he cannot deal with being intimate with me and that in turn leaves me feeling dirty.

now i am no saint, i like to be satisfied as much as the next person but when it is not possible, i.e. bad time of month, i have no problems letting it be one-sided. i actually get a lot of emotional satisfaction out of making him feel so good. so the more i can keep focused on knowing i am not dirty, he just needs time to heal, the better i can enjoy being able to make him feel good in any way. No, i don't want this to be long term, but I don't think it will cause any love to die.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Our MC counseled us to spend a small amount of time each week on "affair recovery" and a LOT of time each week on "building the kind of marriage we want to have for the long term". I think that was good advice. Unfortunately, it is hard not to spend a lot of time on "affair recovery" at first. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">that is excellent advice. Right now i am thinking, i will watch for his lead, stay available to him to talk about A whenever he wants and in the meantime, i am going to work on having relaxed, enjoyable time together. that might mean family fun time, but i think any fun time is exactly what we need.

that was kinda what i was thinking when i said to him today, Is it ok for me to feel happy? (i wrote about that in a different thread)

i am looking forward to the weekend and that feels so good to say, i used to dread the weekends. I am very glad I kept coming back to these boards and that you all were able to get thru to me.

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ok, one last thing though....

cuz, i am still wondering...

how long did it take for some of you BHs to want to be intimate with your WW again??? Did any of you ever think it might be as much as a year (cuz that is what H told me early on) but then found you were able to connect on that aspect sooner than you first thought possible??

thanks.

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I know everyone says it just takes time, but it's true. Also, because I was the one on MB, I knew I had to pay attention to ENs. I didn't 'force' myself to do anything, but I did keep an open mind. On d-day, it was no way, no how. But we went to Retrouvaille during Plan A. When we got emotionally closer, we did become semi-intimate. I was okay with that for about a month, but when the A didn't end, I said no more. When A finally ended, we became intimate again. I don't call it love-making, though -- not at first. But as we're going along in our recovery, I feel it's more love than lust.

Be patient with BS. Have you thought of going to Retrouvaille?

Edited to add: I know you're asking BH's, but I tend to be Mars-like in our relationship.

<small>[ April 02, 2004, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: lbc ]</small>

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Maybe I am just wierd, but I am a BH who wanted to be intimate with my W a couple of days after I found out. I think a lot of my feelings have to do with wanting to be close to her. She has ended the PA with the OM, but she is not willing to have NC with him, and she is not willing to dedicate herself to our marriage yet. I want to be with her all the time, but she is very reluctant. I must admit though, that when we are together it doesn't make me feel any better because she is pretty distant and preoccupied after.

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Hi JL, I am a BH. I can`t tell you what is going on in your H`s head but I`ll tell you what was going on in mine.

how long did it take for some of you BHs to want to be intimate with your WW again??

About 3 or 4 weeks. There were movies playing in my head aout my W with the OM every time I thought about sex at first. Your H probably is going through the samething. He will have to get control of them and be able to shut them off before he will be able to have sex.

Did any of you ever think it might be as much as a year

I though perhaps I may never be able to again. Your ego is destroyed, you wonder what is wrong with you. Everthing you believed to be true is now a lie. You look at your entire life to figure out what went wrong. Then you change everything you identify as being wrong with you. It really is a soul searching that takes place right to your very core. This took me about 4 weeks and I believe it is also tied to wanting sex again.

finally at about 4:30am he said he wanted to ask me something. i thought it was about OM, he said it's not what you think... he said he is very uncomfortable, physically and he wanted me to just use my hand....

This is probably him testing himself. He`s seeing if any movies pop into his head. He wants the first time he has sex with you again to be a show stopper. The last thing in the world his damaged ego could take is BAD sex.

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